Cult Zombies. Are they zombies or cult?

[vkalls]

Recently I had a dynamic round where both zombies and cult were in play. Some members of the cult were turned into zombies and some zombies were converted to the cult (I think). The cult zombies still had a red halo and red eyes, making them seem like cult. I was a part of the cult and killed by a zombie. The admin at the time said zombies were free to kill any non zombies. I don't mind that, but I do think there needs to be some clarification on how zombies should act. So the questions is -
Should zombies be considered on the side of antags who they are converted to (cult, maybe revs and some others)?
My opinion on this is pretty neutral. Cult has been able to convert almost any sentient being and have that being join the cult. (Xenos, Sentient Mobs, Nightmares) If we were being consistent, zombies would be on the side of the cult. HOWEVER, zombies might want to munch brains more than they want to summon Nar'sie?
Please talk this over so we can get an official ruling on it.

[genessee]

In my opinion;

Zombies are loyal to nothing except other zombies. As a zombie, you're expected to murder and maim any living thing (minus other zombies) that you see. After all, they're really just walking husks controlled by the Romerol tumor - and that tumor has no loyalties.

Curing a zombie, obviously, returns it to its' previous loyalties.

I think the same goes for Revolutionary Zombies and any other conversion antag zombie (or zombie in general). While in life you may have been loyal to Nar'Sie or the Revhead, in death a zombie just isn't capable of recognizing the difference between 'good human' and 'bad human'.

On the flip side, I think zombies are always valid when confronted by a human, no matter what their former alliances may have been. Cult members killing cult zombies makes sense - generally, the cult should then be trying to cure and revive the cult zombies, but that's more my opinion than anything.

EDIT: obviously referring to Romerol zombies, not high-functioning zombies - HFZ should act like a normal crewmember and are loyal to the cult when converted

[Shadowflame909]

Does Eldritch God Brainwashing affect the mindless?

You can convert simple mobs, so I'd think so.

[Armhulen]

Does Eldritch God Brainwashing affect the mindless?

You can convert simple mobs, so I'd think so.

Simple mobs aren't mindless if they get converted though, because they're sentience is required.

[Shadowflame909]

Does Eldritch God Brainwashing affect the mindless?

You can convert simple mobs, so I'd think so.

Simple mobs aren't mindless if they get converted though, because they're sentience is required.

Checkmate Armhulen

Ai cultist mobs with the cult faction

Edit: but my main point is, if nar'sie literally brainwashes crewmembers to do his bidding. Should be even easier with zombies who only rely on instinct.

[genessee]

Edit: but my main point is, if nar'sie literally brainwashes crewmembers to do his bidding. Should be even easier with zombies who only rely on instinct.

In order to brainwash, you need to have a brain TO wash. In a zombies' case, they literally are only being animated by Romerol.

Romerol is literally a gland of weird-ass chemicals. It does not think, and arguably isn't even alive.

Nar'Sie might be powerful, but at the end of the day, a Romerol Zombie is just a sack of flesh being controlled by a biological weapon on-par with algae or fungus. You just can't exercise enough control over that to make it do your bidding.

( Also, looking at this from a game balance perspective, making zombies not allowed to attack former cultist teammates brings up the questions 'can revolutionary zombies attack human revs?' and 'can mindshielded zombies attack human security?' and frankly, that sucks and isn't fun for anyone)

[vkalls]

'can mindshielded zombies attack human security?'

Mindshields don't prevent people from attacking sec policy wise I believe.

[genessee]

'can mindshielded zombies attack human security?'

Mindshields don't prevent people from attacking sec policy wise I believe.

The point is, zombies are supposed to have zero allegiance to anyone except other zombies.

Being a zombie stops being fun (and from a traitor perspective, viable to release) if suddenly half the zombies are still aligned to their faction after they get infected. The reason why these zombies are so strong is because they're supposed to go full unga - if they keep acting like normal crewmembers, then they just become powergame juggernauts that can't stay dead without a decap/surgery

[NecromancerAnne]

It's honestly not at all against theme for a death god to have power over zombies.

[remanseptim]

i played on the round this thread concerns. it was yesterday on manuel.
many people were talking in OOC afterwards for cult members 'teamkilling' while they were zombies. it was simply those people not being aware of the policy concerning zombies. manuel doesn't see dynamic much, so it may have been a lot of players' first times seeing romerol during a different gamemode.

Should zombies be considered on the side of antags who they are converted to (cult, maybe revs and some others)?

no, for several reasons.
one is that zombies are zombies, they're brainless fuckwits with claws that must feast on grey matter and spread the infection.
another is what was outlined above, that romerol will simply become useless on dynamic rounds because it'll have little effect other than giving one team invincible murderbone machines.
the reasons given to support them remaining on the side of the cult are simply grasping at lore that's not even concrete in the first place.

tl;dr: OP might not be ided, but a lot of people were, and you shouldn't base policy off that.

[SkeletalElite]

If they aren't on the cult side when converted, they shouldn't be convertable in the first place. Either yes they are or they should be forbidden from becoming cultists in the code

[Tlaltecuhtli]

zombies isnt a "real" team antag so they should be cult friendly, like the rest of antags that get converted

[RaveRadbury]

The message on zombie conversion tells you to spread the virus and to be hostile to everything that's not a zombie. Zombie Cultists attacking other cultists results in more zombie cultists, not dead cultists. It seems pretty straightforward as-is.

[Cobby]

it should be either since both are equally plausible reactions.

Attempting to control zombies isn't always a successful venture, so you have to choose risk v. reward.

You shouldn't get banned if you choose to attack or not to attack the cultists, just be consistent about it since you ARE playing a braindead individual.

[ATHATH]

I don't know where this notion that romerol zombies are "mindless" came from- they can *spin, speak, use krav maga (using control+click), and meme just like everyone else (bar the hand thing).

Doesn't the brainwashing surgery beat out cult allegiance? If so, zombies should as well (it should go brainwashing surgery>zombie compulsion to kill>cult, IMO).

[SkeletalElite]

I don't know where this notion that romerol zombies are "mindless" came from- they can *spin, speak, use krav maga (using control+click), and meme just like everyone else (bar the hand thing).

Doesn't the brainwashing surgery beat out cult allegiance? If so, zombies should as well (it should go brainwashing surgery>zombie compulsion to kill>cult, IMO).

If an affect that is allegiance altering beats the cults conversion, it should get rid of their cultist status completely in the code. If someones got that cult HUD on them you shouldn't have to worry that they're not actually cultists.

[Cobby]

*spin is a braindead action that’s why people do it

[RaveRadbury]

If an affect that is allegiance altering beats the cults conversion, it should get rid of their cultist status completely in the code. If someones got that cult HUD on them you shouldn't have to worry that they're not actually cultists.

It doesn't "beat" it, it just takes precedence in front of non-zombies. They are still cultists, they just also have an overwhelming urge to spread a disease as well.