[MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

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[MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Dezupher » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:12 am #581994

It's become an increasingly common trend for geneticists on Manuel to build public genetics consoles just outside of science or in the primary hallway. This seems like a pretty good Idea but it has several pretty big negative affects on the round as a whole.

For starters you're completely eliminating almost any player interactions between the crew and the geneticists by just side stepping anyone ever having to go to genetics to get mutations if they want them or geneticists trying to offer people mutations. Antagonists don't even have to break into genetics if they want mutations they're just right there in the hall for free. Players and their actions on Manuel should first be attempting to increase player interaction, not reduce it.

It has a larger effect on the balance of the round round as a whole, Genetics with how it works at the moment is incredibly easy. You can very quickly get all the mutations people would want and store them all on a single console. And when the everyone from security to the janitor all have easy access to space adapt, thermal vision and TK or insulated, compounded with other public crew empowering things such Nanites (which by design are meant to be public but risky) and a beneficial virus from viro, the average crew member becomes an absolute nightmare to deal with as any antagonist when you pretty much have to assume ANYONE could be running around with thermal vision.

The whole idea that antagonists on Manuel can do more with the longer rounds is somewhat of a lie because of how much the crew can passively power game with things like genetics. Good luck with your gimmick that involves any form of violence when the cook saw you through the wall with thermal vision and now security is chasing you with x-ray guns space adapt and thermal vision. This isn't impossible to accomplish without a public genetics console but is much more common now with public ones being built every round.

Until genetics is no longer absurdly easy to do and extremely powerful disallow people from constructing public genetics consoles in the middle of the halls, they shouldn't be leaving genetics.



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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:30 am #581996

I feel as if a code change/config option is much more appropriate for this. Little things like this are fine on their own but add them up and new players will have a book of precedents and edge cases to learn before being able to understand what they can and cannot do. Not sure if you implied this sort of thing but just throwing it out there.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:39 am #581997

On one end I understand the merits of 'doing a job well enough for everyone to benefit'. One the other hand I understand the concerns of 'limiting interaction and powering up everyone under the sun'. However I also consider how easy it is to mutadone people through grenades, smoke machines, syringe guns, food, pills, etc.

I think its also important to consider the nearest adjacent policy to this: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=26880 where it was stated that beneficial items being stockpiled anywhere outside of arrivals was fine. Does this cover injectors themselves, or the machines themselves? Is clicking on a machine in a hallway counting as 'more effort to obtain'?

Code-wise however: Is part of the issue here in how hard it is to be dishonest about the contents of mutation syringes outside of advanced syringes — especially when we consider the ability to stock all commonly desirable mutations on one machine? Let alone other factors like how quickly someone can obtain all beneficial mutations, with some incredibly fast speed runs being possible. Genetics can run out of content in twenty minutes, easily.
Last edited by Misdoubtful on Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Timberpoes » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:35 am #582007

The issue is not that mutations can be public, but that Manuel rounds drag on so long that antags get defeated because the station's tech and job completion level advances too far, so validhunters turn into quasi-Gods if they can acquire the tools of some half dozen sub-departments and ordinary crew members can have some level of superpower about them.

Are public consoles bad on a greenshift? Are they bad on nuke ops? How about when an antag themselves makes the consoles public, including in a revs or cult round?

Admins are already empowered to deal with this on MRP on a case-by-case basis as they see fit.

Me and a number of admins currently take the approach of "the further away from the science lobby, the fewer gamer mutations I want to see on it" and I will actively wipe major gamer mutations off public DNA Consoles that stray too far from Science. On the other hand, I absolutely do not care if I see a public console loaded up with non-gamer mutations no matter where it is on the station.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:57 am #582009

cant the antag delete the superpowers from console? or roleplay as a luddite and say superpowers are against human nature and delete them yourself?

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Fishimun » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:09 pm #582016

Hugbox remove gamer mutations

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby stan_albatross » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:05 pm #582017

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:cant the antag delete the superpowers from console? or roleplay as a luddite and say superpowers are against human nature and delete them yourself?


There are these things called data disks and you can save all superpowers to them for easy backups, crazy I know.

In regards to the guy who was talking about mutadone, there is no way to mutadone a validhunter who is observing you through walls using thermals/xray

(genetics speedruns and publicising mutations also makes a lot of traitor items useless such as the thermal goggles being negated by thermal vision, syndi space suits by space adaptation, etc, etc. But that's another issue entirely)

Even if genetics doesn't make public consoles I know in most rounds they will have all of sec roided up by the half hour mark with at the very least thermals and space adap, maybe even mind reader if they are particularly on the hunt for antags. There's very little opportunity to counterplay this without either outing yourself as an antag with direct attack or finding a way to kill all the monkeys before genetics start/delete all their research (and as geneticists never leave their lab during the roundstart speedrun there is very, very, very little opportunity for this.)

edit : and there is zero risk to the user from a public console, much unlike nanites or even just injectors dropped on the floor
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:47 pm #582018

stan_albatross wrote:In regards to the guy who was talking about mutadone, there is no way to mutadone a validhunter who is observing you through walls using thermals/xray


Timberpoes wrote:... validhunters turn into quasi-Gods if they can acquire the tools of some half dozen sub-departments and ordinary crew members can have some level of superpower about them.


And here in lies the deeper cause and issue, and one that can already in most cases already be addressed in the RP rules should a party choose to address it, right?

Therefore are the consoles themselves the issue, or is the valid-hunting they can sometimes enable the issue?

stan_albatross wrote:genetics speedruns and publicising mutations also makes a lot of traitor items useless such as the thermal goggles being negated by thermal vision, syndi space suits by space adaptation, etc, etc. But that's another issue entirely


Something something 'just bomb genetics' is a hearty argument to this that could be expected. Its also the most viable counter-play.

Timberpoes wrote:Me and a number of admins currently take the approach of "the further away from the science lobby, the fewer gamer mutations I want to see on it" and I will actively wipe major gamer mutations off public DNA Consoles that stray too far from Science.


stan_albatross wrote:There are these things called data disks and you can save all superpowers to them for easy backups, crazy I know.


Also this. The concept of having to babysit a genetics console all game because a mutation could get added back to it is the very definition of: NO THANKS. Micro-managed and mini-policed content is the opposite of fun for everyone involved.

I'm of staunch belief that if something shouldn't exist it should be handled code-wise or config-wise whenever possible, and not through in game intervention. Otherwise it becomes ban bait and an uphill battle to enforce a standard on, not to mention bloating policy.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Timberpoes » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:43 pm #582024

Putting my admin hat to one side and putting my maintainer hat back on, we expect administrators to do the jobs they volunteer their time for before code solutions to policy issues are considered. In general, the only time the coder team will step in to explicitly code on a policy issue is when either all admin enforcement options have been tried and have failed, or no enforcement options exist outside of code solutions. That is to say, code solutions to policy issues are a method of last resort because the coder team are independent from server administration.

In addition, code solutions are not going to happen while this is being brought up as an MRP specific issue. There will not be separate MRP and LRP codebases and we must all play together in our sandbox.

If it's a game balance or design issue, then policy is not the arena to discuss these matters in general either. viewforum.php?f=10 should be used instead.

Manuel is still ostensibly a /tg/ server. Geneticists entire jobs are getting mutations discovered and then spreading their mutations across the station (if they so wish, they can hoard all their powerful mutations like I used to when I played genetics) and public genetics consoles are geneticists doing their jobs. They may not be doing their jobs in a way you agree with and you may well prefer they do their jobs how you want them to do their jobs, but that is an IC issue for the RD and/or Captain to resolve in my opinion - Although I will step in if I feel a public genetics console with a specific set of mutation will be a detriment to the round as a whole. Usually by deleting the mutations and finding the geneticist who put them on and informing them that I've curated their mutation selection.
Last edited by Timberpoes on Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:47 pm #582025

Timberpoes wrote:Putting my admin hat to one side and putting my maintainer hat back on, we expect administrators to do the jobs they volunteer their time for before code solutions to policy issues are considered. In general, the only time the coder team will step in to explicitly code on a policy issue is when either all admin enforcement options have been tried and have failed, or no enforcement options exist outside of code solutions. That is to say, code solutions to policy issues are a method of last resort because the coder team are independent from server administration.

In addition, code solutions are not going to happen while this is being brought up as an MRP specific issue. There will not be separate MRP and LRP codebases and we must all play together in our sandbox.

If it's a game balance or design issue, then policy is not the arena to discuss these matters in general either. viewforum.php?f=10 should be used instead.

Manuel is still ostensibly a /tg/ server. Geneticists entire jobs are getting mutations discovered and then spreading their mutations across the station (if they so wish, they can hoard all their powerful mutations like I used to when I played genetics) and public genetics consoles are geneticists doing their jobs. They may not be doing their jobs in a way you agree with and you may well prefer they do their jobs how you want them to do their jobs, but that is an IC issue for the RD and/or Captain to resolve.


Thats great and all, but config options already exist between LRP and MRP. So this is a bit moot. Not to mention that policy threads can promote config options just as much as code threads can. There is long standing history to show this.
Last edited by Misdoubtful on Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Timberpoes » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:01 pm #582026

And I disagree with using config entries to create separate codebases for MRP and LRP and will do everything in my power as a maintainer to block any such attempts.

You will still have two sets of a code - The code that's run when the config flag is set and the code that's run when it is not set. It still creates two unique codebases, just under a layer of obfuscation.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:07 pm #582028

Timberpoes wrote:And I disagree with using config entries to create separate codebases for MRP and LRP and will do everything in my power as a maintainer to block any such attempts.


separate codebases


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I'm sorry, what? I don't see a separate Official TGStation Github repo anywhere. If there is one, it'd be news to me — hell it'd be news to everyone else too I'm thinking.

What does the whole 'the buck stops with you regarding config' have anything to do with this policy thread though?

It doesn't matter if its Manuel or not. If people are going to just delete the mutations across multiple rounds while other people are going to vouch that consoles shouldn't exist outside of genetics to begin with, then just maybe there needs to be an official precedent on it, because its clearly a point of contention.

Again, especially considering the most closely associated policy to this about where leaving beneficial items for the crew was acceptable (arrivals), where genetics handouts was in fact specifically brought up in the introductory post, and things were loosely left as anywhere that is not arrivals being acceptable.

That being said, consider the goalpost is about public DNA consoles being acceptable outside of genetics, not about people micro-managing mutations because they don't like them.
Last edited by Misdoubtful on Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Mickyan » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:40 pm #582029

I think if anything manuel shows there's a lot of deep rooted balance issues if the public availability of a console is all it takes for it to turn the entire crew in the perfect validhunting machine. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that longer rounds drag on as they do when the crew gets so strong over time that they can completely shut down antagonists just by making the results of their work available to others

As if the game was designed in a world where cooperation between crew members is unheard of and a single person needs to become a powerhouse after they do their 20 minutes of work. Mmh.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Dezupher » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:29 pm #582077

I'm just going to give a bit more reason as to why I made a policy thread instead of a coding feedback thread about how poor genetics is.

We already have a precedent for things similar to this in the past, an example would be building a robotics console for no reason outside of the RD office, even if it's just in robotics. It helps them do their job easier, but it's power gaming hard, and we even tell people not to do it on the LRP servers.

We have a rule on MRP which is, don't power game. Building consoles loaded with mutations in the main hall is just allowing people to power game and get away with it. If security or cargo left guns out front their departments with no prior threat or need for it, it'd be power gaming, so we tell them not to do that. I do not have a problem with people distributing mutations when they're necessary such as war ops or a blob being announced or there just being a massive hole in the station and people need space adaptation, or just requesting specific mutations from genetics. I have a problem with allowing everyone to power game mutations with no cause or need to distribute mutations, in perhaps the least interactive way possible.

It's pretty much the geneticist's job to use and distribute mutations, that's all people use the job for anyways. But it should be done when it's necessary, and not by a self serve console in the hallways.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Screemonster » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:52 pm #582079

if the main problem is people being cucked by some rando witness with xray on the other side of a wall they had no way of knowing was there then maybe xray needs a downside

like, if you still get any kind of benefits of eye protection with xray then you probably shouldn't because fuck you your x ray eyes can see the flash regardless of whether you put sunglasses in the way

add some ghetto chem reaction that sets off an x-ray flash that burns out the eye sockets of anyone with x-ray on the screen and acts like an area flash to anyone else or something

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby JusticeGoat » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:18 pm #582083

Ok what happens if genetics starts filling vending machines up with power injectors? The maps do not encourage crew interaction with genetics because they are often locked away out of public view.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:37 pm #582086

Screemonster wrote:if the main problem is people being cucked by some rando witness with xray on the other side of a wall they had no way of knowing was there then maybe xray needs a downside


just accuse him of fake news and hide your a. gear and get frisked by sec, or hide and change identity, the videogame isnt assassin creed where you have to 100% stealth or you fail the mission

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:38 pm #582089

JusticeGoat wrote:Ok what happens if genetics starts filling vending machines up with power injectors? The maps do not encourage crew interaction with genetics because they are often locked away out of public view.


This is my biggest concern here. Mostly because of that precedent on stockpiling beneficial items. Where does it lie?
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Cobby » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:43 pm #582098

can you just expand this to literally anything that has 0 downside for crew so we odnt have a thread for each specific instance?
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Domitius » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:05 am #582099

I would like to explore some more alternate solutions to the public genetics console and hopefully kill it by being obsolete rather than more policy.

Currently I have two on my mind,

First would be pairing it with the new economy rework. Since we no longer receive paychecks perhaps science should be stocked with the necessary tools to create public vending machines that they can stock with mutations to generate revenue. Could pair this as well by adding a currency cost to printing mutations. While gating your own jobs content behind money is not desirable you can still give other crewmembers mutations by having them hop into the genetics pod and have the geneticist add them manually.

This would definitely increase the amount of player interaction if everybody becomes broke.

Secondly and perhaps more extreme would be having the genetics console deal more damage to whoever they are experimenting on so they would have to either a, take better care of their test subjects and slow down the process or b, be more pro-active in swapping out various test subjects before they run out of bodies.

I would like to end my post by saying that I really want us to brainstorm better solutions to this rather than write up more policy, it's already extremely bloated as is.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Nabski » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:02 am #582101

Botany is a great example of "my own job is gated behind money" and good luck getting anyone to pay you for food so you can get new seeds.

The older version of genetics tried for damage balancing as more rads would kill your subject exponetially faster for minor research gains. It was a very amusing way to kill someone. I tend to see geneticists activating like 20 monkey cubes and using that for mass testing alot. If you're balancing around the ability to have monkey cubes as subjects then what happens when you have more than one geneticist working.

Someone said it early that a more generic "if you worked hard for it don't give it away for free" policy would cover a bunch of these stupid cases that keep showing up when a new fun meta toy shows up.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:20 am #582102

Domitius wrote:Secondly and perhaps more extreme would be having the genetics console deal more damage to whoever they are experimenting on so they would have to either a, take better care of their test subjects and slow down the process or b, be more pro-active in swapping out various test subjects before they run out of bodies.


Nabski wrote:The older version of genetics tried for damage balancing as more rads would kill your subject exponetially faster for minor research gains. It was a very amusing way to kill someone. I tend to see geneticists activating like 20 monkey cubes and using that for mass testing alot. If you're balancing around the ability to have monkey cubes as subjects then what happens when you have more than one geneticist working.


This is exactly what I thought about. Old genetics could absolutely kill with ease just from radiation, let alone how much of a guessing game it was instead of a speed run. The radiation component and DNA scrambling of it all now feels weak. Some servers still have old genetics for those wanting to refresh on the before and after, but I really appreciated how dangerous it was for the subject.

Cobby wrote:can you just expand this to literally anything that has 0 downside for crew so we odnt have a thread for each specific instance?


Also this. Hyper specifics continue to scare me. Its a highway to bloat.

Domitius wrote:First would be pairing it with the new economy rework. Since we no longer receive paychecks perhaps science should be stocked with the necessary tools to create public vending machines that they can stock with mutations to generate revenue. Could pair this as well by adding a currency cost to printing mutations. While gating your own jobs content behind money is not desirable you can still give other crewmembers mutations by having them hop into the genetics pod and have the geneticist add them manually.


As much as I like the idea of every department that provides goods having a vending machine or the like, think cargo, whats to stop people from just bypassing these machines and getting things at the source? DNA consoles having a genetics access requirement? Maybe? I don't know how that'd play out. Feels dangerous.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Domitius » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:50 am #582105

Nabski wrote:Someone said it early that a more generic "if you worked hard for it don't give it away for free" policy would cover a bunch of these stupid cases that keep showing up when a new fun meta toy shows up.


While I admire "if you worked hard for it don't give it out for free" that requires "hard work" to be defined which for the various types of players we have what is hard for one could be trivial to another. Drawing up a list of what is considered a "hard work item" would also be entirely relative and need constant updating which is something I'm not a fan of.

With how contextually different each department shares their work I find it difficult where to begin writing up a fair unified policy for it. Powergaming might be a good place to start but it still feels incredibly murky and I am hesitant even going that route.

Misdoubtful wrote:As much as I like the idea of every department that provides goods having a vending machine or the like, think cargo, whats to stop people from just bypassing these machines and getting things at the source? DNA consoles having a genetics access requirement? Maybe? I don't know how that'd play out. Feels dangerous.


You're right that people could just bypass and ignore the vending machine entirely but I would hope it would provide an avenue for players who wish to engage in that way an easier time. Perhaps letting those with geneticist/RD ID's having free injector printing be a more middle ground approach as opposed to restricting it to those jobs. I am in full agreement that going down the route of restricting who can print them is dangerous and is not something I want to entertain.

I would also like to mention that I am pushing a code solution over a policy one which I understand is not fair to the codebase. However I don't know if a fair policy could be made here. It's obvious that geneticist and their gene consoles are not in a good spot right now with them running out of job content 5 minutes into the shift after all.

Perhaps we may need to just recognize that this behaviour is scuffed and sit back to see how the geneticist job may evolve in the future instead of setting policy today which could one day be detrimental.

As usual my opinions are my own and do not represent the entire Headmin team.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby RaveRadbury » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:54 am #582109

The fast easy solution is to limit mutations above a certain instability from being placed or generated outside of genetics/the science department. We could even have those in 3 tiers (public, R&D, genetics) and this would feed into the idea of "powerful mutations that need to be secured" and would add gravity to the experience, especially if being caught with powerful mutations could result in an IC sec response (as you're wielding powerful things without the right clearance/paperwork).

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Mutations up to 10 instability public, up to 20 in R&D, anything higher only within genetics.

It's really easy to explain from a policy perspective.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:20 am #582110

this is literally a balance thing, why is this in policy discussion?

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Naloac » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:47 am #582115

not a HEADMIN OPINION TM. but this seems like just a general problem with how shit genetics is and how easy it is to fucking blast through it all in 15 minutes.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby legality » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:19 am #582116

This seems less like something that should be turned into a footnote server rule than something that should be dealt with ICly. We should keep our OOC ruleset slim. It would be easy to modify space law to discourage such behavior, and you wouldn't have to do much to convince sec to enforce it because sec hates it when everyone has gamer powers. I can see two obvious options:

1) Add a crime that the creation of public genetics consoles with gamer mutations would fall under. This might be something broad like unauthorized distribution of weapons -- most gamer mutations could be considered a weapon -- or something more narrow applying specifically and only to public genetics consoles.
2) Add 'accessory to [crime]' as a modifier to sentences, with the use case of a geneticist indiscriminately handing out mutations which are then used in the commission of a crime.

I already use the latter IC on Manuel, and tell the geneticists on duty this whenever I'm science officer.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby XDTM » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:20 am #582117

From my perspective this really looks like a code/balance issue. Solving it via policy is probably possible, but it would be like making a rule not to use cloning too much instead of just removing it from the code.
I'm not saying genetics should be removed, but its mechanics should be thought out so that major genetic modification requires an external operator and/or a significant investment of time, instead of an easy and infinitely reusable method.
The powers themselves might also need to be rebalanced with drawbacks proportionals both to how hard it is to get them and to how powerful their effect is.

Regardless of the specific solution, using policy to stem balance issues wouldn't solve the root of the issue, would increase the ruling baggage, and it simply wouldn't be as effective.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby TheFinalPotato » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:40 am #582118

It looks like this is being handled as a genetics suggestion thread, so I will add some input.

Genetics is in a horrible spot right now, it is mostly gated by time and got a significant buff via a fucking UI upgrade, it needs either a full rethink or burning to the ground and starting again.

You should move this to the coding forums if that is where you want to go with this, it prob won't go anywhere, but at least it'll be properly categorized. We do have large issues with our codebase and MRP, as it's been molded with the expectation that people won't work together, and has a semi bad time when they do, but I try not to think about that.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Dezupher » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:21 am #582125

I agree that limiting what people can do with small policy like this can be harmful overall to new players and the genetics job straight up has nothing to do other than give the crew mutations since everything else the job used to be used for was practically thrown aside since it was moved to the science department.

I still think building consoles and handing out gamer mutations like candy is power gaming and should be avoided on the MRP server. And that maybe, if people are going to give each other mutations they should at least talk to each other and you know, role play in some form rather than walking up to a free super power vendor every round it gets built.

I've made a proper thread for genetics suggestions or rework ideas here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28008

This includes my own idea which probably won't ever happen.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:10 pm #582130

iamgoofball wrote:this is literally a balance thing, why is this in policy discussion?

Because of the MRP part where perhaps a public genetic console is great on basil however people will start flipping tables (emoted, of course) if done on Manuel.

The thread may have derailed into general genetic discussions however still.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Nalzul » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:09 pm #582132

Goon has public genetic mutations injectors, but as a vendor to sell from. It also helps that there's a TON more mutations possible than the few that we have right now.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Critawakets » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:10 pm #582133

This is literally just a case of security not doing their job. Like 90% of mutations are detrimental to station security.

I guess as a policy you could just make public genetic powers be illegal. Simple, clean and doesnt affect negatively anyone's job. It also adds extra roleplay with perhaps a geneticist distributing powers illegally and security having to find the hidden geneticist.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:09 pm #582311

The powers that get distributed on Manuel are by no means a security issue, which are usually thermal vision, space adaptation and the one that lets you use more skills. You'd have to be a braindead moron to be arresting someone because they don't die to the vacuum of space or can basket weave as well as know all the wires and wine taste at the same time.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:45 pm #582352

what about the one that lets u throw snow balls or the one that lets u telepath people

i like to telepath people
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby ATHATH » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:02 pm #582758

Well gee, maybe if we moved Genetics to somewhere that doesn't require breaking into a department to reach, people would interact with the geneticists more and they'd feel less obligated to move their workplace to somewhere that the non-tiding public can actually reach/notice.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby EOBGames » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:09 pm #582759

ATHATH wrote:Well gee, maybe if we moved Genetics to somewhere that doesn't require breaking into a department to reach, people would interact with the geneticists more and they'd feel less obligated to move their workplace to somewhere that the non-tiding public can actually reach/notice.


You say this as if genetics ever bothered to let anyone in while they were in medical.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby wesoda25 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:15 pm #582761

Uh, they did.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby ATHATH » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:35 pm #582762

Dezupher wrote:We have a rule on MRP which is, don't power game. Building consoles loaded with mutations in the main hall is just allowing people to power game and get away with it. If security or cargo left guns out front their departments with no prior threat or need for it, it'd be power gaming, so we tell them not to do that. I do not have a problem with people distributing mutations when they're necessary such as war ops or a blob being announced or there just being a massive hole in the station and people need space adaptation, or just requesting specific mutations from genetics. I have a problem with allowing everyone to power game mutations with no cause or need to distribute mutations, in perhaps the least interactive way possible.

So if there isn't a blob or a war ops declaration... what are the geneticists supposed to do? Just sit on their asses and hope that some major threat to the station appears?

And what IC reason(s) would they have to NOT give someone thermal vision, mind reader, etc. if they're asking for it?

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby ATHATH » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:36 pm #582763

EOBGames wrote:
ATHATH wrote:Well gee, maybe if we moved Genetics to somewhere that doesn't require breaking into a department to reach, people would interact with the geneticists more and they'd feel less obligated to move their workplace to somewhere that the non-tiding public can actually reach/notice.


You say this as if genetics ever bothered to let anyone in while they were in medical.

Their spot in Medbay wasn't as public as it should have been either.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby EOBGames » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:07 pm #582765

ATHATH wrote:
EOBGames wrote:
ATHATH wrote:Well gee, maybe if we moved Genetics to somewhere that doesn't require breaking into a department to reach, people would interact with the geneticists more and they'd feel less obligated to move their workplace to somewhere that the non-tiding public can actually reach/notice.


You say this as if genetics ever bothered to let anyone in while they were in medical.

Their spot in Medbay wasn't as public as it should have been either.

Well, if you're willing to do the mapwork (science has been needing a rework, you know?) do feel free to make genetics more public.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby RaveRadbury » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:12 pm #582766

I can attest that I had far more interactions with genetics when I didn't have to knock on their door from maint to try and have any engagement with them.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Misdoubtful » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:32 pm #582768

RaveRadbury wrote:I can attest that I had far more interactions with genetics when I didn't have to knock on their door from maint to try and have any engagement with them.


Wasn't the location based on space available with cloning dead and the experiment room was just super convenient? A remapping with a counter is something, but it being stuffed in a dark corner and getting ignored feels like a no brainer.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Cobby » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:20 pm #582839

@ATH proprietary research, i don’t share info I have with everyone in my company just because they are in my company.
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby oranges » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:39 pm #582861

>admins make a bunch of stupid rules

>Now they are papering over cracks trying to fix the logical inconsistencies in their rules

why do they do it anons

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby legality » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:34 pm #582867

ATHATH wrote:
Dezupher wrote:We have a rule on MRP which is, don't power game. Building consoles loaded with mutations in the main hall is just allowing people to power game and get away with it. If security or cargo left guns out front their departments with no prior threat or need for it, it'd be power gaming, so we tell them not to do that. I do not have a problem with people distributing mutations when they're necessary such as war ops or a blob being announced or there just being a massive hole in the station and people need space adaptation, or just requesting specific mutations from genetics. I have a problem with allowing everyone to power game mutations with no cause or need to distribute mutations, in perhaps the least interactive way possible.

So if there isn't a blob or a war ops declaration... what are the geneticists supposed to do? Just sit on their asses and hope that some major threat to the station appears?

And what IC reason(s) would they have to NOT give someone thermal vision, mind reader, etc. if they're asking for it?


That's like asking what the warden's supposed to do with the armory if there isn't a blob or war ops declaration, or what IC reasons the chemist might have to not give someone a potentially abusable chemical.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby SkeletalElite » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 pm #582913

legality wrote:
ATHATH wrote:
Dezupher wrote:We have a rule on MRP which is, don't power game. Building consoles loaded with mutations in the main hall is just allowing people to power game and get away with it. If security or cargo left guns out front their departments with no prior threat or need for it, it'd be power gaming, so we tell them not to do that. I do not have a problem with people distributing mutations when they're necessary such as war ops or a blob being announced or there just being a massive hole in the station and people need space adaptation, or just requesting specific mutations from genetics. I have a problem with allowing everyone to power game mutations with no cause or need to distribute mutations, in perhaps the least interactive way possible.

So if there isn't a blob or a war ops declaration... what are the geneticists supposed to do? Just sit on their asses and hope that some major threat to the station appears?

And what IC reason(s) would they have to NOT give someone thermal vision, mind reader, etc. if they're asking for it?


That's like asking what the warden's supposed to do with the armory if there isn't a blob or war ops declaration, or what IC reasons the chemist might have to not give someone a potentially abusable chemical.


The difference is the armory doesn't just print a gun for free every 30 seconds and only a few powers in genetics can be used to grief to the same level a gun can.
Regardless this thread is stupid. The only reason public consoles are even necessary is because genetics is mapped in a garbage spot ever since it was moved from medical to science, at least when they had a counter it was easy to come ask for powers and hand them out. Now the only way for them to distribute their work easily is with public consoles.

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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby cacogen » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:11 am #582989

Probably only time gating injectors per console isn't a good way to make it impractical for the entire station to have powers and it should consume some other resource too
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Flatulent » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:46 am #582995

oranges wrote:>admins make a bunch of stupid rules

>Now they are papering over cracks trying to fix the logical inconsistencies in their rules

why do they do it anons

they are doing it to ban people, idiot
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Re: [MRP] Punt public genetic consoles into the sun

Postby Flatulent » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:52 am #582996

Manuel is destined to evolve into Bay with it’s famous “if u build shit in halls you are banned bye bye” bans
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