Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
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- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:30 am
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Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
I've been informed by an admin that there's a policy that player controlled monkeys are always considered valid regardless of the circumstances. This is stupid.
Since player controlled crewmembers aren't, and player controlled silicons aren't, and player controlled simplemobs aren't, and player controlled golems aren't, then player controlled monkeys shouldn't be.
"Random murders are not acceptable" should apply in all of those cases.
Since player controlled crewmembers aren't, and player controlled silicons aren't, and player controlled simplemobs aren't, and player controlled golems aren't, then player controlled monkeys shouldn't be.
"Random murders are not acceptable" should apply in all of those cases.
- Screemonster
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
being a sentient monkey is acting like an antag :^)
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
Player controlled simple mobs should be valid too
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
This has been the way it's been for as long as I've been playing on this server and I don't like it either. It would be interesting to hear current admins try to explain why it's a rule
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- XivilaiAnaxes
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
Isn't this from an event (I forget exactly what it is that does this) where player controlled monkeys turn people into other player controlled monkeys?
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- Misdoubtful
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
Jungle fever/monkey rounds are cursed.XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Isn't this from an event (I forget exactly what it is that does this) where player controlled monkeys turn people into other player controlled monkeys?
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- pugie
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
Im sorry is this real I've never seen a sane admin rule random monkeyperson kills as just.
- Cobby
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
I don’t consider monkey Insta valid but if you abuse the monkey perks they don’t have to treat you with the same rights as a “normal” player (off to the gibber cutie!)
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
which oneZybwivcz wrote:I've been informed by an admin.
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
me, after asking for a double check in the admin channelsoranges wrote:which oneZybwivcz wrote:I've been informed by an admin.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2018
Seems like this stems from a variety of things
1) monkey is likely to be a ling
2) people using monkey to be a shitter
I also swear I remember reading somewhere that being a monkey makes you valid but if you're constantly turning yourself into a monkey so you can kill people who try to valid you you're gonna get banned for being a shitter but I can't remember or find where I read that. Maybe it was another server's rules.
Seems like this stems from a variety of things
1) monkey is likely to be a ling
2) people using monkey to be a shitter
I also swear I remember reading somewhere that being a monkey makes you valid but if you're constantly turning yourself into a monkey so you can kill people who try to valid you you're gonna get banned for being a shitter but I can't remember or find where I read that. Maybe it was another server's rules.
- remanseptim
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
are there actually any rules about killing xenobio mobs controlled by players
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
I was always under the impression that they had more loose escalation and that any major escalation on their part is also escalation with their master and all of the other minions.remanseptim wrote:are there actually any rules about killing xenobio mobs controlled by players
For example, a couple xenobio mobs attack security, security is now going to (rightfully) valid ALL xenobio mobs because they have to assume the master ordered the mobs to fuck with them and also arrest or even kill the master.
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
crew vs xenobio mobs is similar to crew vs free golem, you can go full genocide for minimal reasons (no 0 reasons)
- Misdoubtful
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
My understanding was: valid.
Does having a reason like them starting trouble make it easier? I guess. Could make sense for some mobs. (See ghost spawns like golems: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=12511) There was at some point a ye olde understanding for some mobs being valid having even the smallest of reasonings, but I don't think it was ever official for much else besides that?
Currently: You assume the risk by being a monkey. Play monkey games win monkey prizes.
That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.
Does having a reason like them starting trouble make it easier? I guess. Could make sense for some mobs. (See ghost spawns like golems: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=12511) There was at some point a ye olde understanding for some mobs being valid having even the smallest of reasonings, but I don't think it was ever official for much else besides that?
Currently: You assume the risk by being a monkey. Play monkey games win monkey prizes.
That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.
Last edited by Misdoubtful on Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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- Mickyan
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
I've made a couple adminhelps about this in the past and even made at least one policy thread and the tl;dr is every admin has a different opinion about this and you're going to get wildly different results whenever it comes up in ahelps
To my understanding monkeys being always valid was official policy a long time ago and more recently most of the newer admins either were never told or came to the realization that it's a stupid rule
To my understanding monkeys being always valid was official policy a long time ago and more recently most of the newer admins either were never told or came to the realization that it's a stupid rule
- Screemonster
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
this reminds me of a hilariously salty thread on /vg/ a couple of years ago when they had a virus that turned people into catbeasts as the final symptom and catbeasts were always valid, so instead of actually curing anyone security just rounded up anyone that showed the early symptoms and locked them up and waited for them to become valid so they could get a free killMisdoubtful wrote: That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.
people got super pissed about it
- Misdoubtful
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
I know its super off topic but the best part is the catbeast virus still exists. A monkey disease not locked behind a gamemode on TG would be crazy.Screemonster wrote:this reminds me of a hilariously salty thread on /vg/ a couple of years ago when they had a virus that turned people into catbeasts as the final symptom and catbeasts were always valid, so instead of actually curing anyone security just rounded up anyone that showed the early symptoms and locked them up and waited for them to become valid so they could get a free killMisdoubtful wrote: That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.
people got super pissed about it
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- skoglol
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
Agreed, make all nonhumans valid.
- nianjiilical
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
monkeys shouldnt be inherently valid for existing but they should definitely have relaxed escalation
if a monkey is being a shithead then it should be killable because its entirely likely to be a ling, but people who kill mind magnified/geneticist monkeys on sight are kind of dicks
if a monkey is being a shithead then it should be killable because its entirely likely to be a ling, but people who kill mind magnified/geneticist monkeys on sight are kind of dicks
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- Screemonster
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
to be more on-topic, a nonantag turning someone valid on a technicality so you can later kill them (or get them killed by someone else) is just nonantag murder with extra stepsMisdoubtful wrote:I know its super off topic but the best part is the catbeast virus still exists. A monkey disease not locked behind a gamemode on TG would be crazy.Screemonster wrote:this reminds me of a hilariously salty thread on /vg/ a couple of years ago when they had a virus that turned people into catbeasts as the final symptom and catbeasts were always valid, so instead of actually curing anyone security just rounded up anyone that showed the early symptoms and locked them up and waited for them to become valid so they could get a free killMisdoubtful wrote: That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.
people got super pissed about it
it's like how "AI, kill this lizard" makes that lizard valid to the AI but it's on you if the AI acts on it
- remanseptim
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
i have literally never met somebody who intentionally became a monkey and did not deserve to die
- Coconutwarrior97
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Re: Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players
Sentient monkeys are not free kills, though if they end up abusing their abilities to do things like break into departments via ventcrawl they are free game.
Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.
Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.
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