Make Rule 1 consistent on killing non-human players

[Zybwivcz]

I've been informed by an admin that there's a policy that player controlled monkeys are always considered valid regardless of the circumstances. This is stupid.

Since player controlled crewmembers aren't, and player controlled silicons aren't, and player controlled simplemobs aren't, and player controlled golems aren't, then player controlled monkeys shouldn't be.

"Random murders are not acceptable" should apply in all of those cases.

[Screemonster]

being a sentient monkey is acting like an antag :^)

[SkeletalElite]

Player controlled simple mobs should be valid too

[cacogen]

This has been the way it's been for as long as I've been playing on this server and I don't like it either. It would be interesting to hear current admins try to explain why it's a rule

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Isn't this from an event (I forget exactly what it is that does this) where player controlled monkeys turn people into other player controlled monkeys?

[Misdoubtful]

Isn't this from an event (I forget exactly what it is that does this) where player controlled monkeys turn people into other player controlled monkeys?

Jungle fever/monkey rounds are cursed.

[pugie]

Im sorry is this real I've never seen a sane admin rule random monkeyperson kills as just.

[Cobby]

I don’t consider monkey Insta valid but if you abuse the monkey perks they don’t have to treat you with the same rights as a “normal” player (off to the gibber cutie!)

[oranges]

I've been informed by an admin.

which one

[Mothblocks]

I've been informed by an admin.

which one

me, after asking for a double check in the admin channels

[SkeletalElite]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2018

Seems like this stems from a variety of things

1) monkey is likely to be a ling
2) people using monkey to be a shitter

I also swear I remember reading somewhere that being a monkey makes you valid but if you're constantly turning yourself into a monkey so you can kill people who try to valid you you're gonna get banned for being a shitter but I can't remember or find where I read that. Maybe it was another server's rules.

[remanseptim]

are there actually any rules about killing xenobio mobs controlled by players

[SkeletalElite]

are there actually any rules about killing xenobio mobs controlled by players

I was always under the impression that they had more loose escalation and that any major escalation on their part is also escalation with their master and all of the other minions.

For example, a couple xenobio mobs attack security, security is now going to (rightfully) valid ALL xenobio mobs because they have to assume the master ordered the mobs to fuck with them and also arrest or even kill the master.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

crew vs xenobio mobs is similar to crew vs free golem, you can go full genocide for minimal reasons (no 0 reasons)

[Misdoubtful]

My understanding was: valid.

Does having a reason like them starting trouble make it easier? I guess. Could make sense for some mobs. (See ghost spawns like golems: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=12511) There was at some point a ye olde understanding for some mobs being valid having even the smallest of reasonings, but I don't think it was ever official for much else besides that?

Currently: You assume the risk by being a monkey. Play monkey games win monkey prizes.

That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.

[Mickyan]

I've made a couple adminhelps about this in the past and even made at least one policy thread and the tl;dr is every admin has a different opinion about this and you're going to get wildly different results whenever it comes up in ahelps

To my understanding monkeys being always valid was official policy a long time ago and more recently most of the newer admins either were never told or came to the realization that it's a stupid rule

[Screemonster]

That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.

this reminds me of a hilariously salty thread on /vg/ a couple of years ago when they had a virus that turned people into catbeasts as the final symptom and catbeasts were always valid, so instead of actually curing anyone security just rounded up anyone that showed the early symptoms and locked them up and waited for them to become valid so they could get a free kill

people got super pissed about it

[Misdoubtful]

That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.

this reminds me of a hilariously salty thread on /vg/ a couple of years ago when they had a virus that turned people into catbeasts as the final symptom and catbeasts were always valid, so instead of actually curing anyone security just rounded up anyone that showed the early symptoms and locked them up and waited for them to become valid so they could get a free kill

people got super pissed about it

I know its super off topic but the best part is the catbeast virus still exists. A monkey disease not locked behind a gamemode on TG would be crazy.

[skoglol]

Agreed, make all nonhumans valid.

[nianjiilical]

monkeys shouldnt be inherently valid for existing but they should definitely have relaxed escalation

if a monkey is being a shithead then it should be killable because its entirely likely to be a ling, but people who kill mind magnified/geneticist monkeys on sight are kind of dicks

[Screemonster]

That said if you turn someone into a monkey as an excuse to make them valid and kill them that's uncool dude. Same as turning into a monkey to bait people.

this reminds me of a hilariously salty thread on /vg/ a couple of years ago when they had a virus that turned people into catbeasts as the final symptom and catbeasts were always valid, so instead of actually curing anyone security just rounded up anyone that showed the early symptoms and locked them up and waited for them to become valid so they could get a free kill

people got super pissed about it

I know its super off topic but the best part is the catbeast virus still exists. A monkey disease not locked behind a gamemode on TG would be crazy.

to be more on-topic, a nonantag turning someone valid on a technicality so you can later kill them (or get them killed by someone else) is just nonantag murder with extra steps

it's like how "AI, kill this lizard" makes that lizard valid to the AI but it's on you if the AI acts on it

[remanseptim]

i have literally never met somebody who intentionally became a monkey and did not deserve to die

[Coconutwarrior97]

Sentient monkeys are not free kills, though if they end up abusing their abilities to do things like break into departments via ventcrawl they are free game.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.