Should Spess Law Be Mandatory?

[deathhoof]

Lets face it, most of the reason why redshirts are getting banned so much is because there is no backbone for their conduct. They can arrest for pretty much anything and give any punishment (except not really because ding dong bannu). Cops should not be focused on not incurring the wraths of the gods, they should be focused on enforcing the law because that is what their damn job is about. Besides, a concrete legal system would give lawyers much more to do and would encourage more rp in general. I want mandatory spess law, and I want it now!

[deathhoof]

Totally yes


But this wouldn't work.

Why not?

[Ikarrus]

You're going to have to specify what you mean exactly by having space law be mandatory.

At the moment, we don't let security brig people without a charge. We also do scrutinize permabrig sentences to make sure they're at least legal. Admins also step in when the sentence is wildly excessive.

With the brig timers limited to 10 minutes, there's really not much room to wiggle around in, Unless you're literally arguing for the enforced lawyering of a few minutes.

[deathhoof]

You're going to have to specify what you mean exactly by having space law be mandatory.

At the moment, we don't let security brig people without a charge. We also do scrutinize permabrig sentences to make sure they're at least legal.

What I mean is they should abide by space law for charges so that lawyers can use space law to argue charges. And also space law should probably be made much more complicated so there are legal loopholes and clauses for certain situations and etc

[Ikarrus]

Again, I'm going to ask you to be more specific because as far as I know, we already disallow security brig people without a legal charge. I can't think of a situation where we would have allowed otherwise.

[deathhoof]

Again, I'm going to ask you to be more specific because as far as I know, we already disallow security brig people without a legal charge. I can't think of a situation where we would have allowed otherwise.

Im pretty sure that only shitlers report when they get brigged. For instance, I experiance shitcurity sentences all the time but I dont consider it fair to ahelp them because "space law is up for interpretation / is just a suggestion"

[Ikarrus]

I don't follow you here.

You want space law to be "mandatory" but you also don't want to get the admins involved?

[deathhoof]

I want admins to interfere where security doesnt follow space law, but I dont want space law to be not mandatory.

[Loonikus]

I signed other.

Space Law should only be "mandatory" during Code Green.

[Saegrimr]

I want deathhoof to stop slobbering on his keyboard and start having coherent thoughts.

[Scones]

Space is, has been, and will hopefully continue to be a guideline for Security, instead of a rigid handbook that you need to follow to the letter or face divine intervention.

Security's job is to keep the station safe and punish those who endanger it and the crew. People who toe the line with Space Law enforcement are awful and almost universally detested by both their own department, and the rest of the crew. The day that I have to reference the handbook to see what exactly your total number of minutes should be for a myriad of crimes is the day Security grinds to a total halt.

[mikecari]

Space law should be mandatory because of shitlords like Mekhi Anderson and Luke Cox who perma/execute people just for having a hand teleporter.
Honestly, there needs to be something to counter shitcurity.

[Scones]

Space law should be mandatory because of shitlords like Mekhi Anderson and Luke Cox who perma/execute people just for having a hand teleporter.
Honestly, there needs to be something to counter shitcurity.

Fun fact, that's grand theft and thusly a capital crime
Shitcurity isn't as much of an issue as the players who CAUSE people to resort to those methods are

[Ikarrus]

ITT people who don't know what they're asking for.

[Timbrewolf]

I want deathhoof to stop slobbering on his keyboard and start having coherent thoughts.

This please.

What the fuck is going on in this thread? I'm totally at a loss for what people are asking for.

Elements of Space Law are "mandatory". If you get brigged FNR we yell at the person who did it. If you get grossly over-punished we yell at the person who did it. If someone beats you for not "picking up that can" we yell at them for it. People executing others outside of the established chain of command it at least raises an eyebrow but usually results in a yelling.

The thing you need to remember, always, is that sentences compound, sparking a manhunt compounds, being a grating piece of shit compounds, etc. etc. so that really quickly your "I only slipped the HoS!" charge can blossom upwards into an extended trip to the gulag, or long stay in the cells. Maybe one in thirty complaints about shitcurity is actually true. Everyone insists they DIN DO NUFFIN while they have a stolen hand teleporter and are covered in someone else's blood.

I agree that the lawyer can appear to be superfluous pretty regularly but that's not because the admins aren't keeping tabs on security. It's often because the lawyer is purposely an abrasive piece of shit who walks into the brig trying to swing his non-existent dick around. "I demand a trial! I demand my client be released!" Buddy, you can't demand shit around here. I have TONS more successes getting clients released and getting to examine evidence and such for myself when I treat people as peers, or even betters. Be nice, say your please-and-thank-yous, call people sir, and suddenly people actually play along with you.

"WAAAH LISTEN TO ME OR ILL TELL ON YOU TO...NOBODY!" doesn't work.

[lumipharon]

>make space law mandatory

Holy shit top kek.

If I followed space law to the letter, I could walk down the halls and basically brig every fucker that moves, for every minor infraction, fuck off absolutely everyone, ending with some sort of clusterfuck riot.
Space law is a good general guideline. It is fucking awful to follow religiously (saying that, that actually sounds like a hilarious gimmick for a chaplain's religion...)

[Fragnostic]

Something needs to be done.
I ahelped several time because I got arrested for knocking on Brig windows. Knocking as in barehanded, in a way that doesn't damage the window. I was also outside of the Brig in a public area. I get tased and throw in a brig cell for 8 minutes. I was 100% cooperative with the officer and didn't disarm even when they still held the taser(kinda unrobust) for a while. I get 8 minutes in a cell. I ahelp it to the best of my ability, explaining everything, not letting frustration get the better of me. Admin says it was "an IC issue". Don't know if this is some admin joke for "ehh, there's a gray area but I don't wanna deal with that headache" or you guys were busy with bigger issues, but this happened to me and was not the first time.
Maybe there's something I'm missing, but most of security is convinced that knocking on Brig windows is illegal. Only one Warden defended me, and they argued that it simply wasn't an infraction and would not uphold he imprisonment of an innocent along that they wouldn't arrest me or assist in doing so because they are a Warden and it's not their job.(shoutout to based Warden)

[WeeYakk]

>An entire generation of spessmen have grown up without JLP

[miggles]

>An entire generation of spessmen have grown up without JLP

people who have not felt the wrath of JLP should not be allowed to ask for mandatory space law
that is how you make an informed decision

[Ikarrus]

I can RP as JLP if you guys want.

[kosmos]

Yes. It would help make Lawyer a more actual job. Right now security personnel just need to say "Space Law is just a suggestion." and the Lawyer can't do shit.

I signed other.

Space Law should only be "mandatory" during Code Green.

This sounds like a very interesting idea. Also remove round-start Code Blue and make Code Red available without two-card-swiping.

[miggles]

I can RP as JLP if you guys want.

please no

[Steelpoint]

Space Law makes for a "ok" guide, but it makes for a poor actual law. If I was to enforce space law to the letter, I would probably get banned for breaking rule 1.

E: Of course it would be amusing to make security enforce space law to the letter if only if it would give a reason for revolutionary rounds to exist, in fact I think even Baystation has a encouragement for heads of staff to be rude to their subordinates just for that.

[danno]

fucking no
space law should absolutely not be “mandatory“
there is a very good reason that people make fun of security players who follow it word for word.

[Timbrewolf]

I voted other because I still can't decipher what the hell OP is asking for.

[Wyzack]

Following space law and enforcing small brig timers to a fault is what most consider to be shitcurity practice. Making sec officers do this is exceptionally awful

[Malkevin]

I voted Yes because it would be hilarious to see the reaction of the "FUCKING SHITCURITY! FOLLOW SPACE LAW!" crowd actually seeing space law enforced to the letter.

If space law was enforced we would have to increase the maximum brig timers, what most seem to forget is that brig timers stack
You see that crime code quick reference card at the bottom of space law?

I put a lot of thought into that, many of you probably haven't noticed that rows are the crimes types and columns are the severity of that crime type.
Although officers can only give the sentence of the offence in furthest right column on the row they can stack anything on the other row as an additional crime.



As for the "if Space Law was enforced the Lawyers would have more power" crowd:

Legal Representation and Trials
Prisoners are permitted to seek legal representation however you are under no obligation to provide or allow this.
Lawyers, and by extension the Head of Personnel, exist to serve as a guiding hand and the voice of reason within the judicial process, however they have zero authority over the brig, security personnel, prisoners, or sentencing.
The Lawyer's security headset is a privilege not a right. Security personnel are under no requirement to listen to them and security channel abuse is to result in that privilege being revoked.
If the lawyer continuously acts as a disruptive influence Security are fully permitted to confiscate their access, remove them from the brig and bar their future access to it.
In instances where a conflict of opinion arises over the sentence of a prisoner the chain of command must be followed. This goes, from top to bottom: Captain > Head of Security > Warden > Sec Officer / Detective.
Trials are not to be performed for Timed Sentences. This is mainly for the benefit of the accused as trials will often run many times the length of the actual sentence.
Trials may be performed for Capital Crimes and Permanent Detention, however there is no requirement to hold them. Forensic Evidence, Witness Testimony, or Confessions are all that is required for the Head of Security, Warden or Captain to authorize their sentence.
In cases where the Death Penalty is desired but the Captain or Acting-Captain is unable or unwilling to authorize the execution a trial is required to authorise the death penalty.

I've always found it funny that the people that go on about space law the most are usually the most clueless about it

[cedarbridge]

I can RP as JLP if you guys want.

please no

I can bring back Dalton. He was a pretty big fan of spesslaw.

[Cheimon]

Space Law is full of stuff that, if enforced, is bad. While there are some minor things that aren't typically enforced (when was the last time you saw someone arrested for just public nudity?) the main problem for I assume many of the people in this thread are that the capital crimes are a lot broader than people who haven't read the law might imagine.

As someone mentioned earlier, stealing the hand teleporter is a capital crime. So is shocking a door. And so is helping anyone who committed either of these crimes (by, say, dragging them away from an officer). The law is really quite harsh.

[Redblaze3000]

Fuck no it should not. As a HoS player I find it really bad to follow it to the letter. Following it to the letter just pisses people off both sec and civilians.