AIs shutting down sec because of law 1

[Luke Cox]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I get that Asimov AIs have to try to prevent executions and harm to prisoners, but for the love of god can we please make it a rule 1 violation to bolt in every single security officer and cripple sec if the AI decides that somebody in sec caused harm?

[Anonmare]

I give sec a fair amount of leeway (More than I should if I'm being honest with myself) since letting them do their job unimpeded is a good harm preventative measure and I don't bother with the transfer room. As far as I'm concerned, it's a transfer room. If a prisoner says that he's afraid for his life and asks that I follow him to make sure he isn't hurt then I have to follow him, even into the room in question.
But Security can usually get rid of me by making up a story about a Human hurt somewhere and needing help. Like in space which is believable enough to send a borg to do.
Treat shit silicon players as shit players, if they arrest the officer while the prisoner is dying of cyanide then the borg deserves to be ahelped. That said, it might not have noticed or it didn't stop you in time before detaining you so don't ahelp them at the slightest provocation.

Plus security can be infiltrated by antags, and therefore, it's not always trustworthy so one officer's word that no harm will come to a prisoner is no more believable than the HoP's or the Clown's. I know I'd get ahelped to shit and back if I let a Changeling Officer eat a prisoner if I didn't exercise reasonable doubt.

[Scott]

People getting mad at how the game is supposed to go down.

If both parties were interested in RP here instead of just the one that is forced to RP by the rules, nobody would get mad.

Reminder that SS13 is not a winning game.

[Tornadium]

People getting mad at how the game is supposed to go down.

If both parties were interested in RP here instead of just the one that is forced to RP by the rules, nobody would get mad.

Reminder that SS13 is not a winning game.

The issue as security is that if you spend too long outside of the brig in a rev, gang or whatever round you are probably going to die, Especially if someone like Dante or Emily Ranger is one of the revs/gang members.

It's also why Exile Implants to deal with bosses or heads is a bad idea because you have to actually get to the Gateway and be able to leave without getting slipped or mobbed on the way there, during or on the way back. Security aren't the only people to powergame, nearly everyone in every role powergames to the maximum. It's simply much safer and more efficient to rush to an objective and straight back to the brig in the fastest manner possible. That's also why stopping and declaring intent to arrest as well as explaining what the arrest is for is a fucking terrible idea as a sec officer because you WILL die.

[Scott]

That's the server you people wanted.

[TheNightingale]

"That's also why stopping and declaring intent to arrest as well as explaining what the arrest is for is a fucking terrible idea as a sec officer because you WILL die."

Explain the arrest over comms beforehand if it's something high-profile (or something they already know they're wanted for): "{Job} {Name}, I'm placing you under arrest for {crimes}. You do not have to say anything in your defense, but anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to a Lawyer, you have the right to remain silent, give yourself up immediately and you will not be harmed".

It means everyone knows to report sightings of that person, as well as giving them an opportunity to surrender. That, and Mirandising people is fun.

[Malkevin]

They don't have a right to a lawyer.

And telling people you're going to arrest them before you do just means they run off and lead you on a chase.

[Cik]

real problem that sec has is that movement is so slippery

getting close to someone who doesn't want to be caught is hard as fuck, and even then if you only make a close pass or two actually spamclicking them into the dust with your stunbaton is not an easy task.

so the only real opportunity you have is surprise. if movement were slower or it was easier to prevent people from moving (zone of control) or something, actually talking in combat would be a thing.

[Cheimon]

Yeah, spacemen don't have miranda rights, and even if they did they wouldn't be relevant because they also don't have the right to any kind of trial.

In real life police are okay stopping people and arresting them because (a) cuffs are pretty fast to put on, often before someone can react, and (b) most people can't reasonably expect to win a foot chase. In this game, if you get involved in a foot chase you're more likely to escape than not, and it's also pretty easy to dodge taser shots or even bullets a high proportion of the time. Hell, just running back and forth along the brig corridor will stump a lot of officers until they pull out a flashbang, because jabbing someone with a stunbaton is hard when they're moving quickly.

[Jazaen]

Well, HoS could always hire some random assistant to act as a one-time guard, or just have normal sec guard wear a grey jumpsuit with normal radio, boots, mask and assistant ID (find suicided assistant, confiscate from brig, ask HoP). The foot chases work because you always see sec coming, and that would eliminate the most common disadvantage.

[Malkevin]

I used to do that as a detective, people would call me a power gaming asshole for it

[Wyzack]

>undercover work is powergaming

it is literally a meme at this point

[Cheimon]

I only really mentioned foot chases as a problem in the event of you announcing your intention to arrest.

If you're doing that, then the disguise isn't going to help either.

If, however, you're using your quick and accurate taser draw (which is possibly the single best skill you can have as an officer) you shouldn't have too many foot chases anyway. Shoot first, and ask lots of questions in the brig. I use interrogation a lot, and it normally seems to work well, since most crimes aren't as straightforward as they seem. For some reason people are much more forthcoming when they know you can safely search them.

[Incomptinence]

I might bolt down the specific room where some edge case idiot is beating prisoners out in the open, usually just demanding a promise they wont re offend and letting them go when I can. I won't bolt down the entire brig usually and not because security "prevents harm" I don't because it is a trap and security crusading after any AI that stands against them breaking any equipment they can get their hands on like a barbarian horde is a real possibility if you annoy them by actually performing your role. Then again I have gotten bwoinked for disabling sillicons instead of killing them so maybe my perspective on this is wrong.

[Luke Cox]

I might bolt down the specific room where some edge case idiot is beating prisoners out in the open, usually just demanding a promise they wont re offend and letting them go when I can. I won't bolt down the entire brig usually and not because security "prevents harm" I don't because it is a trap and security crusading after any AI that stands against them breaking any equipment they can get their hands on like a barbarian horde is a real possibility if you annoy them by actually performing your role. Then again I have gotten bwoinked for disabling sillicons instead of killing them so maybe my perspective on this is wrong.

Please be AI every round

[Incomptinence]

Oh no I wouldn't say it is the right approach sometimes all of sec is in on it like snivelling worms. Still the odd absolute idiot who talks about harming prisoners and does it in to open without department support does happen.

Ideal solution would be to demote said idiot so both parties can get along but hey basically never happens.

[Takeguru]

Well, if someone gets demoted they tend to be an absolute ass to whoever did it, and with understandable reason.

People have killed for less.

[capi duffman]

It's been a long time since I last locked down everything because security were shits, ironically I was traitor AI, Security was absolutely retarded (more than a couple of executions, perma and gulag had more than enough people) and my lock down was answered with killing intent. Only one person reached centcom that day.

Leaving that aside, I'm more of only whining if the harm was done, and lock the fuck out of the aggressor if it's retarded enough to announce it's harming intent. Of course, should things escalate bad enough, with the HoS demanding that I allow him to kill prisoners, or not bothering to hide the harm, then I lock everything, turn off the lights and equipment, and make sure it stays that way until the shuttle is about to dock.

[Void Slayer]

Actually, getting out of silicon hate is really easy if it sees you execute someone.

Step 1 is admit fault on yourself and no one else in sec.

Step 2 is agree to be demoted and removed from security.

Step 3 is a face change surgery and new sec ID.

Step 4 Murder next greytider. Repeat.


Also if the head of security kills someone then orders "Kill all gangsters" please do not be surprised by a general sec lockdown...

[Zilenan91]

>get perma'd, straight jacketed, blindfolded, gagged, and bucklecuffed to a bed surrounded by walls and bolted in because lol valid

That doesn't happen.

[CharlieShinu]

yo bro you gotta understand that this creates conflict and conflict is necessary in order for the game to remain interesting.

while antags are the most consistent providers of this conflict, the game would become too predictable without adding variables like different player personality.

imo admins should remain uninvolved in this, but also in cases in which you choose to retaliate and put a stop to the ai, whatever "stopping" entails. if they want to argue about them just doing their job, then they must be able to assess that theyre only receiving what they dish out.


my cents anyway