Bombs and Explosives

[Timrod]

Recently, I've been playing a lot of Atmos. After discovering how to make canister bombs (something I never saw people do up until I started doing it) I started running into a lot of weird situations involving the admins and security. What I'm trying to do here is get an explanation for what exactly the policies on explosives are. As I understand it, the current policy is:

- Making explosives is allowed as a non-antag, provided the bombs aren't used (except in cases like blobs, aliens, toxins test range, etc).

- Security and Heads of Staff may not arrest people simply for MAKING explosives (ie; RD can't march into toxins, flash-cuff the scientists and bring them to the brig simply for doing their jobs).

- The AI may not interfere with explosive production (ie; bolting or depowering Toxins at round start, shutting off the mix pumps, etc) unless it has reason to believe that IMMINENT human harm will occur (ie; bombs have been detonated on the station).

Now, since I started making canister bombs, I've been told that:

- The CE can arrest and/or attack Atmos if they are making bombs, even if no attempt is made to flood the station (ie; nothing in the mix tank).

- Atmos is considered a valid kill for "acting like an antag" if making bombs.

Personally, I think that Atmos should be given the same status as Toxins in terms of making explosives - that is to say, they should not be able to be arrested simply for making bombs.

[Subtle]

I can understand where the ruling might have come from.

Scientists are expected to have/work with bombs because plasma research, an atmos-tech not so much. There's no real IC reasoning for it.

[Psyentific]

The sticking point is that Toxins exists entirely to make bombs, while Atmos does not.

[paprika]

- Making explosives is allowed as a non-antag, provided the bombs aren't used (except in cases like blobs, aliens, toxins test range, etc).

Making toxins explosives, yes. Making canister bombs as a non antag every round is kind of retarded and odds are you'll run into a ban because of it eventually because an innocent gets killed. But I see no real problem with atmos techs researching plasma in their spare time, they got nothing else to do. That's more up to IC circumstance than actual policy.

- Security and Heads of Staff may not arrest people simply for MAKING explosives (ie; RD can't march into toxins, flash-cuff the scientists and bring them to the brig simply for doing their jobs).

They can arrest anyone BUT toxins scientists for making explosives.That's the only place on the station where it's their actual job to research plasma.

- The AI may not interfere with explosive production (ie; bolting or depowering Toxins at round start, shutting off the mix pumps, etc) unless it has reason to believe that IMMINENT human harm will occur (ie; bombs have been detonated on the station).

True

- The CE can arrest and/or attack Atmos if they are making bombs, even if no attempt is made to flood the station (ie; nothing in the mix tank).

True, but it's more likely he'll bring sec down on you instead of doing it himself

- Atmos is considered a valid kill for "acting like an antag" if making bombs.

Making bombs outside of a secure explosive testing lab is grounds of sus as fuck antag behavior. You're near extremely vital life support systems, so making bombs near that isn't exactly kosher.

The plasma in atmos is for refilling plasma tanks if engineering runs out, supplying the station/toxins, and fueling a TEG/turbine if there's one on the map like there is on metastation. I know it seems dumb for atmos techs to have a near infinite supply of gaseous plasma and not have anything fun to do with it but that's why we have antags.

I suggest you hone your canister bombing knowledge on a local server and then use it to antagonize as a traitor or ling, it's way more fun than getting in trouble with sec or the CE for doing it anyway.

[Steelpoint]

I can say with certainty that so long as you keep any bombs inside Toxins you can't be arrested by Security. The moment the bombs leave Toxins however all bets are off.

[Timrod]

I can understand where the ruling might have come from.

Scientists are expected to have/work with bombs because plasma research, an atmos-tech not so much. There's no real IC reasoning for it.

What doesn't make sense to me that if that's true, Atmos kind of doesn't make sense from a reality perspective. They know how to make and maintain intricate networks of pipes and pumps (and also know how to make a power turbine that uses plasma as fuel) but aren't supposed to know anything about plasma. You would think they would have to know about the flammability/explosion potential of plasma as a basic safety precaution (ie; "Don't use open flames near the pure lines because it might ignite the plasma inside") in order to do their jobs. There's also an IC reason they would want to have heated plasma on hand, that being that (logically, as the gas storehouse of the station) Atmos would know that Research is constantly demanding superheated plasma for Toxins.

From an OOC perspective, if Sec can arrest Atmos for doing anything with plasma, CO2, or N2O while in Atmos, that means that Atmos's job is largely pointless - set the pumps and fuck off to space or fuck off to maint or something. You've got to give them something, otherwise they might as well get removed like they did on Goon.

[Swagile]

Atmos has always been like science.

Except science is known for booms more then atmos.

They keep to themselves, make disposal canons / re-route disposals for shits and giggles, and make canister bombs because why not, just like scientists fuck around because why not.

Most people, however, go atmos tech for the free toolbelt + axe, which sucks since atmos has a lot of potential to be used.

An OOC ruling might help, but it will also restrict the things that can happen IC (Atmosia independent city state, anyone?)

[paprika]

Everyone knows plasma is flammable. If you draw lore from the game instead of game from the lore, you'll figure things like that out pretty quickly. It's the next gasoline and it's a big serious dangerous deal.

[miggles]

im pretty sure someone figured out that the air naturally on the station at roundstart lasts like 18 hours before any oxygen deprivation starts happening, if you turn off distro
so its only really "important life support systems" in fluff since no round lasts that long
honestly i dont see a problem with making bombs as its all just experimentation and learning and as long as you dont blow them up its not a big deal
if you do, use the bomb site like a normal person and that way you can figure out the size of the boom as well

[Kelenius]

If you want to make bombs, pick scientist and make bombs.

You're making the second most destructive thing on the station in a very close proximity to the first one, and you're surprised that security comes knocking at your window?

Ideally, bombs can be in one of three conditions on the station: being build in toxins lab, being tested in test site, being carried to mining. Everything else is a serious reason to arrest.

[ExplosiveCrate]

You could, you know, let the CE/HoS/captain know that you're making bombs ("researching plasma") before actually making bombs.

[OtherDalfite]

You could, you know, let the CE/HoS/captain know that you're making bombs ("researching plasma") before actually making bombs.

I've done that before and it has always fucked me over. However the times that I did I'm pretty sure the HoS was some shithead.

[cedarbridge]

You could, you know, let the CE/HoS/captain know that you're making bombs ("researching plasma") before actually making bombs.

I've done that before and it has always fucked me over. However the times that I did I'm pretty sure the HoS was some shithead.

If I'm not mistaken, not telling the CE what was going on with a canister bomb got 3 people in atmos killed last night. I pulled two bodies out of the wreckage of Atmos from Telescience that round and one was vaporized before I could get locked.

[looping]

Canister bombs have never really gone well for me whenever I've made them, both IC and OOC.
Either the AI cracks down on you, turns off power and sends in the fascists or someone else from Engineering/Atmos bursts in and thinks you're flooding plasma, on the rare case that you suffer no interference you can either blow them up and ask for the range or save them for a rainy day or as it turns out you're an antag and can make a nice boom.
Actually telling people you're making canister bombs tends to screw you over most of the time, very rarely I've told a CE who was competent that I've been making canister bombs and I was given the OK as long as I didn't move them outside of atmos.
They're not really that convenient now with the walkspeed reduction though, acting more as suicide bombs along with some aspect of unpredictability that often has you leaving behind tiny explosions, the longer the canister stays out after filling it up the less powerful it gets so that doesn't help.

I've gone and taught a guy how to use canister bombs and showed them how they work, when I went to show them how big the explosion radius usually is, as I tried making the bomb to be something like 1,4,7, I accidentally made a bombcap canister and nearly got banned for blowing up the entire area around the incinerator though thankfully I got off after many apologies, explanations and offering to fix up the damages which wasn't too hard.
Considering the general lack of use unless you've got a Spacesuit and jetpack I don't bother with them most of the time.

It's a shame though that people making canisters are considered valid or misinterpreted as being traitorous scum attempting to flood plasma somehow as it's one of the few things Atmos has to experiment with barring disposals and incineration chambers.

[mrpain]

I dont see why anyone outside of Science should be making bombs if they arent an antag.

Bomb making is Toxin's job.

[looping]

Because some people get bored as a Technician and decide that they'll find an alternative to Mr. Bones Wild Ride.

[Incomptinence]

If atmos techs had an uninhabited area to test explosives I wouldn't mind. As is if they even test their products they will be detonating atmos or maint so I don't see why anyone would let them drag canisters primed with an explosive mix around.