[MrStonedOne/SubtleGraces] TechnoAlchemist - Escalation

[TechnoAlchemist]

Byond Account/Character Name: TechnoAlchemist as Bones McGee
Banning Admin: MrStonedOne
Ban type: Dayban/Servers
Ban reason:poor escalation: killed a clown for attacking him after almost critting the clown for little reason as captains bodyguard
Time ban was placed: 5:21 PST

The Story: Roundstart I went to the HoP and became the Captain's Bodyguard, I headed towards the brig to get gear, the HoS made it pretty clear to me that he didn't want me there so I grabbed what I could and got out. Evidently the HoP had opened all the clown slots and was not in good graces with the the HoS.

Anyways, I moved on and joined the captain, I stuck behind them and generally just remained benevolent. At one point a clown came up and insulted the captain, feeling as if it were my duty as her bodyguard, I harm batoned the clown once on the head. With that being handled, we walked away.

A few minutes later outside of cargo, the clown came back, and insulted the captain once again, so, I hit them again, the clown retaliated with a punch, I hit them again, and then the clown attempted to slip both me and the captain. After that incident, I beat the clown until they were bleeding, hoping that would be the end of it I walked away.

A few MORE minutes later I go to the medbay after stepping on a bear trap that a seperate clown had put down in the hallway, the clown of whom the conflict was with follows me in, they try to table me, I knock them onto the ground and hit them a couple more times. I go to the medivend to get a brute patch for myself, they get up, and slip me on a banana peel, they then proceed to begin whaling on me with a fire extinguisher, I manage to get up, and they try to slip me yet again on the banana peel, I drop a flashbang, and then kill them.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

I personally believe this is a textbook case of escalation. Yes, In-character I was harsh towards the clown for their behavior, and I do believe them seeking revenge makes sense IC. However, I'm not entirely sure why I was banned for what seems to me like a completely IC escalation, that handled itself. If this IS in fact the state of our escalation policy, then I would like to get clarification because in my eyes this isn't something that should be handled by administration, and with me being an administrator, I would like to be enforcing this server's standards.

[Shaps-cloud]

For what it's worth, as the captain, there were several clowns who kept coming up to me and Bones and messing with us constantly time after time, and we had a few physical scraps. I'm not sure which clown it was that Bones beat down, but if it was Cucky the Clown or Mr. Wiz, there were plenty of opportunities to back down if they didn't want to go that far

[Tsaricide]

It would help if mso posted his side of the story here but this seems like an IC issue.

[Subtle]

As we discussed at length in-game; just because you're a Security Officer with a fancy title doesn't give you the right to beat random crewmembers.

The Captain did not ask you to "avenge their honor" when the clown insulted them. That was purely your decision; there we have the start of the fight. The Clowns didn't react to the first harmbaton, and why would you be surprised that they insult the Captain again after getting beaten for absolutely nothing. After getting harmbatoned twice I'd be coming back after you too; and just because they're upset over being treated completely unfairly and abused by an all-access thug with the Captain's authority doesn't make them the aggressors here.

You had cuffs, a disabler, and a baton. Never did you use that baton outside of harm mode, and you even used the disabler to weaken the clown long enough to beat it to death. You were perfectly capable of detaining them any of the times you felt threatened. Killing and stuffing them in a disposal over a fight you started without question (When you have the authority, ability and opportunity to use the brig) is lazy security work, poor behavior, and personally I believe exactly the opportunity you were waiting for. No player would have gotten away with it and I don't believe an admin should either.

[Ahammer18]

Subtle has made up his mind, I'm resolving this.

For any questions/concerns feel free to PM me or any other admin.



EDIT: Unmoved at request of appealer.

[TechnoAlchemist]

I think this entire thing is in-line with our current escalation policy. Until I get a ruling on the state of the policy by the headmins+ MSO I'm not going to be satisfied. The story is there.

[Tornadium]

As we discussed at length in-game; just because you're a Security Officer with a fancy title doesn't give you the right to beat random crewmembers.

The Captain did not ask you to "avenge their honor" when the clown insulted them. That was purely your decision; there we have the start of the fight. The Clowns didn't react to the first harmbaton, and why would you be surprised that they insult the Captain again after getting beaten for absolutely nothing. After getting harmbatoned twice I'd be coming back after you too; and just because they're upset over being treated completely unfairly and abused by an all-access thug with the Captain's authority doesn't make them the aggressors here.

You realize that is textbook escalation, instead of being a big boy and not having hurt feelings they came back and escalated the situation.

Whether or not they were "being treated completely unfarily and abused" (if you can even call it that) they decided that instead of moving the fuck on and dealing with it to actively go after the pair.

You had cuffs, a disabler, and a baton. Never did you use that baton outside of harm mode, and you even used the disabler to weaken the clown long enough to beat it to death. You were perfectly capable of detaining them any of the times you felt threatened. Killing and stuffing them in a disposal over a fight you started without question (When you have the authority, ability and opportunity to use the brig) is lazy security work, poor behavior, and personally I believe exactly the opportunity you were waiting for. No player would have gotten away with it and I don't believe an admin should either.

I seriously don't see the difference between someone escalating with say another assistant vs escalating with a security officer. The only thing I can honestly claim to be a difference is that when escalating with a security officer you know you have that admin safety net and you can freely fuck with them until you hit the line. The clowns willingness to be involved in the situation and to continually come back should honestly void any protection and actually make themselves responsible for the outcome.

Sorry less hugbox IMO. I know I'm not involved but this seems to be becoming a hot issue on the server at the moment.

Is that word really reserved?

Kickin rad place to be? That actually made me laugh.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

WARNING WARNING FOLLOWING CONTENT MAY NOT BE NOT APPLICABLE TO POST UNDER FORUM RULES
While I fucking hate and despise shitheads who get all-access and weapons to "be a bodyguard"...
WARNING WARNING ABOVE CONTENT MAY NOT BE NOT APPLICABLE TO POST UNDER FORUM RULES

... I am unable to see how defending himself against someone who repeatedly returns with lethal intent, even in incidents where the killer was not provoking them (see: medbay) does not fall under the new, looser, escalation rules.

[Alex Crimson]

I think the point here is that he wasnt a random crew member. He was a Sec officer who had full access to non-lethal weapons and chose to use none of them. Even in the end when he beat the Clown to death, he had the option to instead cuff him and take him to the brig for assaulting an officer.

/delete if too unrelated. Sorry.

[Tornadium]

I think the point here is that he wasnt a random crew member. He was a Sec officer who had full access to non-lethal weapons and chose to use none of them. Even in the end when he beat the Clown to death, he had the option to instead cuff him and take him to the brig for assaulting an officer.

/delete if too unrelated. Sorry.

He's not a Security Officer.

He's the Captain's Bodyguard. Nothing more. Even as a security officers its a pain having to go through the arrest process for someone doing clown like shit. When you're not technically even security it's fucking pointless.

Dude was given multiple chances to stop fucking with the Captain and the BG, he didn't take it.

[Falamazeer]

What makes a man a police man? Is it the weapons cuffs and access? Do we expect every assistant who robs an officer to start brigging people and enforcing justice?
So judging him by sec policies really isn't fair, unless he started as sec, got a title change so he could fuck off and then murdered the clown, in which case proceed.

Honestly, if you wanna reap the benefits of an amazing pewpew gun, and sweet boots, you really ought to be lending your talents to the force, It's a thankless job, but you should throw on a red jumpsuit and get shit on with the rest of us, otherwise you're vigilante scum with stolen equipment, and don't be surprised when I arrest you for it, Access or no access, Permission or non, The HoP cannot authorize you to loot a department that isn't his own, Use supply if you insist on being a snowflake vigilante.

It really all boils down to what he was at round start for me. Because either he was a rogue officer, or he was an assistant(Or whatever) in stolen gear.
Some clarity would be great on that point.

[Subtle]

Oh joy, the peanut gallery has arrived.

Getting promoted to "Space Cowboy" as an assistant doesn't give you the right to go around quoting John Wayne and shooting people in the face. Similarly, becoming a 'bodyguard' doesn't give you an excuse to take your ego out on random people; otherwise why bother having security. Let's just promote assistants so they can turbo-validhunt and crap on the crew with no responsibility. Truly, the only thing 'textbook' about this escalation is it involved harmbatoning a Clown. Consider the precedent you're attempting to set with this nonsense. If this is escalation, then anybody who makes a trivial insult toward another person is literally open to assault, then murder when they fight back. Absolutely insane. Guess you guys want it to be an IC-issue the next time you get permabrigged for saying "shitcurity?"

Bones harmbatoned one of two Clowns when they insulted the Captain. Neither of them did anything then; and when they met again by chance later they got beaten again for another jab. Two punches, to stop him beating the other Clown, got that one beaten half to death. At this point Bones has given out eight or nine swipes of his baton, thrown them around the halls; yet the Clowns are "starting shit" when they try to stop him over it? Surprise, surprise, I wonder why you ran into them in medbay after this considering they were there to heal up the damage you gave them.

This isn't escalation, and if it is, it bodes terribly for the future of conflict. Good luck keeping track of what's IC or not if talking shit as the Clown is enough to justify security murdering you.

[Subtle]

What makes a man a police man? Is it the weapons cuffs and access?

Presently the policy is that if you're arming up to antag-hunt or take security gear/access for the purpose of acting like security, you're treated like them.

[peoplearestrange]

Because I can see this becoming a peanut gallery as well and as this doens't require any further input from anyone but MSO and Subtle i'm going to lock the thread. It'll remain here until a headmin decides its resolved.

[onleavedontatme]

How has nobody pulled logs yet when everyone involved is an admin come on guys.

Also I was under the impression this was MSOs ban and was hoping he'd remark on it but apparently it isnt so uh

-Nobody forced the clown to keep going back or to try and kill the guy over a single harm baton. Its not really fair to try and get your revenge and then adminhelp when the revenge fails

-security/pseudo sec being held to high standards in regards to escalation is a bit unfair to them. They're obligated to be targets of griff while playing catch and release

-On the other hand sec has a bunch of fancy tools and authority and rarely get questioned because of the meta around them not being antags. Setting the precedent that sec can beat you or steal your stuff or whatever is probably bad. Bones did hit first after all

-He was functionally security but not security from a roleplay standpoint not sure if this should factor in. Hitting the obnoxious clown doesn't seem that horrible.

Anyway those are my thoughts so far I'll try and make a decision soon.

[MrStonedOne]

It was my ban, but i placed it for SG after SG and TA argued for the better part of a round in say on the issue.

SG was telling the ahelping party that they might have to take it to ban requests, and i, after watching the argument unfold, and agreeing 100% with sg, decided to rule on it to save the person the trouble.

To me, this looks like textbook kill baiting on TA's side. "lets randomly harm baton the clown until he comes at me with soap/pda, beat him to near crit, then kill the clown when he doesn't like that".

And SG is right in that TA was to be considered security.

[TechnoAlchemist]

1. Anyone with a basic understanding of cause and effect, or who read the story which has not been disputed knows that the harmbatoning was not "random" it was not out of some out-of-character sadism as to why I harm batoned the clown. It was a reaction to the insult, and IC conflict if you will. They did it again, they got the same treatment.

They retaliate, naturally, and I beat him into what you say is "near crit" meaning at which point someone is bleeding. I suppose it makes it easier to take this out of character when you say near crit because crit is generally where admins take issue with assault, except that this particular assault was escalated, and had IC backing.

2. It seems that in every rebuttle people like to include the fact that I was slipped, but not the part where I repeatedly sustained a fire extinguisher to my head after falling down. I did not attack this clown because he slipped me, said honk, and went on his merry way.

I retaliated because he slipped me, tried to kill me, and then when I got up tried to slip me again presumably to finish the job.

I wasn't trying to bait the clown into escalating, I was trying to tell the clown to fuck off verbally and through physical punishment, instead of taking minutes away from the person I was supposed to be guarding to put them in a brig cell for a few minutes.

While I do in fact agree that I should be considered security based on the gear I managed to acquisition, the vigilante rule does not apply here as in no way was I "out hunting for antags". I did not seek out to murder anyone, I reacted to the situations that game to me.

Calling this kill baiting is ridiculous as at no point did I seek out the clown, he ALWAYS came to me. And as much as his quest for revenge does make sense, he lost the final encounter, and got killed as a result of it. As such, it is an IC issue in my eyes. But if somehow the escalation policy doesn't apply to this sort of niche situation, it should be stated in the policy to avoid further arguments or conflict.

[Tsaricide]

If the clown tried to handle it IC and failed then he voids his right to adminhelp it, one or the other not both.

[oranges]

You need one more headmin to rule to go anywhere with this.

[Vekter]

I don't see anything wrong with nailing somebody once with a harmbaton if they're being unruly. It's not ideal, but it's not something I would ban for. This sounds like pretty proper escalation to me.

[Stickymayhem]

In a normal escalation this would be borderline shittery (Start shit, Get hit, Kill them) but as a security officer under our "Act like one get treated like one" policy? Definitely unacceptable.

[Tornadium]

He's not a security officer, He was promoted outside the chain of command. He's a thug more than a Security Officer, From what I gathered speaking to people he was just the bodyguard for the Captain.

Lets check the definition of that term

A bodyguard (or close protection officer)[1] is a type of security guard or government agent who protects a person or persons — usually public, wealthy, or politically important figures — from danger: generally theft, assault, kidnapping, assassination, harassment, loss of confidential information, threats, or other criminal offences. The group of officers who protect a VIP are often referred to as the VIP's security detail.

Highlighted important bits.

Seems like he was roleplaying a Bodyguard pretty well considering they'd just manhandle you. Ever seen SoP for bodyguards? They're pretty rough.

The clown continued to fuck with the Captain and the Bodyguard, I've said before he made absolutely no attempt to avoid the two. He kept coming back. He tried murdering the Sec offer THEN admin helped, that's fucking bullshit. You can't try to resolve it IC then complain when you get dunked.

[Subtle]

I'd just like to mention that the Clowns didn't "seek you out," either. You make it sound like they were chasing you down rather than just meeting in the halls and insulting the Captain.
Every meeting was pure chance, except the medbay one, which you really have to expect considering you beat them half to death before you met there.

This is not "cause-and-effect," otherwise every time someone speaks out IC they're open to physical retribution; apparently not only open to physical retribution, but continued abuse and no accountability from the person they insulted when they decide to kill them. It's ridiculous and downright fallacious to paint the Clowns as anything but victims before the incident in Medbay. Not only that, but you were perfectly capable of stunning and detaining that Clown once he became an actual threat instead of a fun punching bag. In fact you did disable the Clown, and instead of handling it in a logical way you waited for him to get back up so you could justify stuffing him in a disposal unit.

The ban is a result of the blatant mishandling of the situation by TA/Bones, and frankly the arguments against it come from ill-informed people assuming (without having seen the logs or the situation) that these Clowns were being bad enough to warrant baseless abuse from somebody with all-access and a free pass to fuck with anyone they pleased. The Clowns didn't "keep coming back" any more than Bones kept supplying abuse. They didn't seek you out to hurt your poor feelings so badly you needed to harm them, and they definitely didn't deserve death.

Definition of a real-world bodyguard

That's nice pointless information and all, but like I said before you can name yourself "Cultist of Nar'Sie" all you want. Doesn't give you the right to start killing.
Bodyguard isn't a recognized position aboard the station; for all intents and purposes he's a fancy security officer.

I don't see anything wrong with nailing somebody once with a harmbaton if they're being unruly.

Unless we intend to change that policy there's always something wrong with SOs and the like beating people they can, or have, detained. Especially those they started a fight with.

[Tornadium]

Your reply screams bay.

I'll respond in more detail when I get back from work.

[Subtle]

Please, do save us all the time and don't bother.

Buzzwords and real-world comparisons have rarely, if ever, applied to these situations.

[Tornadium]

Please, do save us all the time and don't bother.

Buzzwords and real-world comparisons have rarely, if ever, applied to these situations.

Well it was more that bodyguards in real-life as well as most applicable fiction scenarios tend to be more akin to hired thugs than professional security personel with a code of ethics. I don't really see the difference between someone being a bodyguard for the Captain and a Bodyguard for the mime, as in how does being a bodyguard for the mime make me security for example.

Again, will reply in more detail.

[Stickymayhem]

Act like security get treated like security.

If you're arming up as a non-antag you get the responsibilities that come with that power whether you like it or not.

[QuartzCrystal]

If you're arming up as a non-antag you get the responsibilities that come with that power whether you like it or not.

I feel like this needs to be explored further separate from this specific issue.

[oranges]

In a normal escalation this would be borderline shittery (Start shit, Get hit, Kill them) but as a security officer under our "Act like one get treated like one" policy? Definitely unacceptable.

That's a gross mischaracterization of events

It's Clown starts shit -> gets hit -> comes back for seconds -> gets hit -> comes back for thirds -> gets seriously beat -> starts trying to beat the officers head in -> dies

How the fuck is this not escalation? Clown had three chances to fuck off and chose to come back for more every single time, you can't blame Techno for killing them after they went full valid with teh extinguisher.

I'm disgusted this ban was placed at all, if it had been once or twice then it would've been find, but the clowns actions clearly indicated they were willing to play the game, then they got butthurted after they got finished off.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

If you come back for revenge a second time, with an attempt to kill, as several other people have said, you void your right to adminhelp when the target turns your head into a picasso.

[MrStonedOne]

So, attack logs show What i thought I remembered, It was not "one harmbatoning" It was 5.
Here is button's (the victim) attack logs for that round, gathered from the public logs at https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... Attack.txt

[19:05:32]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) grabbed Silent Night(aldaril) passively</font>
[19:05:50]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) grabbed Philip Tenant(mrmacaroli) passively</font>
[19:05:57]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) grabbed Philip Tenant(mrmacaroli) passively</font>
[19:06:35]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Baul Teekle(igotdild4u) </font>
[19:06:36]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Baul Teekle(igotdild4u) </font>
[19:06:38]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Paul Wolfman(nicholasrage) </font>
[19:06:51]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Paul Wolfman(nicholasrage) </font>
[19:07:06]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Philip Tenant(mrmacaroli) </font>
[19:09:57]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:09:58]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:09:59]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:00]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:01]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:02]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:03]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:04]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:05]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:06]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:07]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:07]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:09]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:10]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Silent Running(artist561) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with Broken Bottle(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:10:11]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) disarmed Silent Running(artist561) </font>
[19:10:11]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Silent Running(artist561) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with Broken Bottle(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:10:13]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Silent Running(artist561) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with Broken Bottle(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:12:00]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Paul Wolfman(nicholasrage) </font>
[19:12:50]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Gandalf The Tickler(marflow) </font>
[19:12:51]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) shaked Gandalf The Tickler(marflow) </font>
[19:15:39]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Baul Teekle(igotdild4u) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The laser tag beam</font>
[19:16:00]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Baul Teekle(igotdild4u) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with bike horn(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:16:02]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) fed Button(spiritofrevenge) with synthflesh(10 units); </font>
[19:18:45]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Phoebe Lotsu(shaps) grabbed Button(spiritofrevenge) passively</font>
[19:18:48]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Phoebe Lotsu(shaps) pushed Button(spiritofrevenge) </font>
[19:19:40]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) punched Bones McGee(technoalchemist) </font>
[19:19:42]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) disarmed Button(spiritofrevenge) </font>
[19:19:43]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) punched Bones McGee(technoalchemist) </font>
[19:19:46]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) stunned Button(spiritofrevenge) </font>
[19:19:49]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:19:50]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:19:51]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:19:52]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:19:55]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Phoebe Lotsu(shaps) stunned Button(spiritofrevenge) with classic baton</font>
[19:19:57]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:20:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The disabler beam</font>
[19:20:30]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The disabler beam</font>
[19:20:30]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Phoebe Lotsu(shaps) with bike horn(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:20:30]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The disabler beam</font>
[19:20:31]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Phoebe Lotsu(shaps) with bike horn(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:20:31]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The disabler beam</font>
[19:20:31]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The disabler beam</font>
[19:20:43]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mute(nitro2985) shaked Button(spiritofrevenge) </font>
[19:21:11]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The electrode</font>
[19:22:46]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with banana peel(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:28]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) grabbed Bones McGee(technoalchemist) passively</font>
[19:24:32]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shot Button(spiritofrevenge) with The electrode</font>
[19:24:37]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:38]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:39]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:41]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:42]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:48]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) shaked Button(spiritofrevenge) </font>
[19:24:52]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Bones McGee(technoalchemist) with fire extinguisher(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:53]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Bones McGee(technoalchemist) with fire extinguisher(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:54]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Bones McGee(technoalchemist) with fire extinguisher(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:55]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Bones McGee(technoalchemist) with fire extinguisher(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:24:56]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) attacked Bones McGee(technoalchemist) with fire extinguisher(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:13]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) stunned Button(spiritofrevenge) </font>
[19:25:15]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:16]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:17]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:18]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:19]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:20]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:21]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:22]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:23]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:25]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:26]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:27]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:28]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Button(spiritofrevenge) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[19:25:32]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) grabbed Button(spiritofrevenge) passively</font>
[19:25:35]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) stuffed Button(spiritofrevenge) into the disposal unit</font>

So, within a minute after your first encounter, you had done 50 damage to him. (10forcex5hits)

Not even a minute after that, you did 120(ish) fake-damage in disabler beems.

Not even 5 minutes after that, you did 50 more damage, and then he finally comes after you with the fire extinguisher.

Meanwhile, you had a taser, a stun baton, and cuffs, and the access of a security guard.

[onleavedontatme]

You missed an important bit a few lines up (which is understandable, because there were two clowns involved). I only noticed myself because I was confused that the logs you posted show the clown hitting first with no provocation.

[19:19:34]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Bones McGee(technoalchemist) attacked Cucky The Clown(deitus) with stunbaton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>

Which is followed by

[19:19:40]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) punched Bones McGee(technoalchemist) </font>
[19:19:43]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Button(spiritofrevenge) punched Bones McGee(technoalchemist) </font>

And then the beat down on Button.


So Button saw Cucky get hit once and decided to throw himself in there/attack the bodyguard.

[onleavedontatme]

Alright well nobody ever responded to this after the logs so in light of the fact that it was a different clown that got harm batoned so the one in question in fact hit first/continued to attack afterwards I'd like to erase the note even if the ban is long expired.