[Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-operate
- Pascal123
- Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 am
- Byond Username: Pascal123
- Location: My house.
[Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-operate
Byond account and character name:Pascal123 - Betrays-Its-Kin
Banning admin: Saegrimr
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Temporary Ban - Bagil
Ban reason and length:Preventing the HoS from escaping as a nonantag, refusing to cooperate in PMs
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 2880 minutes.
Time ban was placed (including time zone):This ban was applied by saegrimr on 2015-08-05 08:50:45, This ban is for 2880 minutes and expires on 2015-08-07 08:50:45.
Your side of the story:Essentially, i was doing my gimmick which involves being rude to specific characters, as usual. We all played a long nicely until Sequoia Irons/Rsmr signs up as captain and gets all defensive, to the point of claiming that she hates the job (Captain) but the upside is her ability (As captain) to issue death warrants, Threatening to throw us out airlocks and refuse cloning. Meanwhile, me and Turgent/Covers-Her-Tail had been reading the PDA messages through the T-Comms satellite and learned of her plan to attack and kill us with two others (The other two being in on the gimmick), and stating that she was in engineering. We ambushed her, and took all her firearms, A revolver, a telebaton, and an energy gun, she had her weapons drawn, we assumed the worst. After a bit of talking we where about to let her go, When one of Stans characters breaks in, tazes us and fires lethals on us. and took her friend Stan Studnick/Some Gimmick Character's firearms as-well, which was two tazers, two energy guns, a spear, and a stunbaton and essentially vanish onto T-Comms for the rest of the shift. She then attempts to rally the entire crew to help her kill us both through PDA and Comms as we listened, (Which none other than her participated in.) Eventually she decides to call the shuttle and they make the connection that we may be on T-Comms, to which we waited, around the two minute mark we departed for a pod, only to be greeted by her outside the door with another stunbaton, so we stun her and cuff her with nearby cable coils, to which she explains that she only wanted to talk, we did not buy it, and left her in a security post to handle herself and took a pod.
Why you think you should be unbanned:I feel as though we had legitimate reason to act the way we did, a quick check of the logs would show that she was merely acting like a "Hitler" and playing along. (Though its RP, i do not feel ill-will towards Rmsr, His character is interesting.) I also skimmed the Rules a bit (http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Rules) And could not find anything definite stating that preventing a head of staff who was speaking of murdering you from boarding the pod you planned to take at the last second to prevent any conflict as a nonantag is a terrible ban-worthy offense. Though, honestly, Forty-Eight hours is hardly a problem to me, this is more to bring it to attention than hoping for a shorter sentence/unban.
I've even taken screenshots from my little chat with Saegrimr which he himself confirms that he was likely only hoping to get a ban done, nothing else.
In Order:
http://puu.sh/jq3w1/234938c6da.png
http://puu.sh/jq3wF/9d07be1459.png
http://puu.sh/jq3xe/a5a3b6c6fc.png
Yes, after seeing these screenshots i can attest that perhaps i should have just co-operated, but i simply felt that the admin investigating the matter wasn't proper and he was refusing my request to speak to another. Saegrimr himself confirmed it by stating that it was a bad time and he was the "Worst admin of the bunch" to come investigate.
Edit: As of posting this appeal he decided to include OOC in IC, (Preventing the HoS from escaping as a nonantag, OOC in IC, refusing to cooperate in PMs) hilarious... i presume this is about our knowledge of what they say through PDA using T-Comms and thus, effectively being one step ahead of them?
Banning admin: Saegrimr
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Temporary Ban - Bagil
Ban reason and length:Preventing the HoS from escaping as a nonantag, refusing to cooperate in PMs
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 2880 minutes.
Time ban was placed (including time zone):This ban was applied by saegrimr on 2015-08-05 08:50:45, This ban is for 2880 minutes and expires on 2015-08-07 08:50:45.
Your side of the story:Essentially, i was doing my gimmick which involves being rude to specific characters, as usual. We all played a long nicely until Sequoia Irons/Rsmr signs up as captain and gets all defensive, to the point of claiming that she hates the job (Captain) but the upside is her ability (As captain) to issue death warrants, Threatening to throw us out airlocks and refuse cloning. Meanwhile, me and Turgent/Covers-Her-Tail had been reading the PDA messages through the T-Comms satellite and learned of her plan to attack and kill us with two others (The other two being in on the gimmick), and stating that she was in engineering. We ambushed her, and took all her firearms, A revolver, a telebaton, and an energy gun, she had her weapons drawn, we assumed the worst. After a bit of talking we where about to let her go, When one of Stans characters breaks in, tazes us and fires lethals on us. and took her friend Stan Studnick/Some Gimmick Character's firearms as-well, which was two tazers, two energy guns, a spear, and a stunbaton and essentially vanish onto T-Comms for the rest of the shift. She then attempts to rally the entire crew to help her kill us both through PDA and Comms as we listened, (Which none other than her participated in.) Eventually she decides to call the shuttle and they make the connection that we may be on T-Comms, to which we waited, around the two minute mark we departed for a pod, only to be greeted by her outside the door with another stunbaton, so we stun her and cuff her with nearby cable coils, to which she explains that she only wanted to talk, we did not buy it, and left her in a security post to handle herself and took a pod.
Why you think you should be unbanned:I feel as though we had legitimate reason to act the way we did, a quick check of the logs would show that she was merely acting like a "Hitler" and playing along. (Though its RP, i do not feel ill-will towards Rmsr, His character is interesting.) I also skimmed the Rules a bit (http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Rules) And could not find anything definite stating that preventing a head of staff who was speaking of murdering you from boarding the pod you planned to take at the last second to prevent any conflict as a nonantag is a terrible ban-worthy offense. Though, honestly, Forty-Eight hours is hardly a problem to me, this is more to bring it to attention than hoping for a shorter sentence/unban.
I've even taken screenshots from my little chat with Saegrimr which he himself confirms that he was likely only hoping to get a ban done, nothing else.
In Order:
http://puu.sh/jq3w1/234938c6da.png
http://puu.sh/jq3wF/9d07be1459.png
http://puu.sh/jq3xe/a5a3b6c6fc.png
Yes, after seeing these screenshots i can attest that perhaps i should have just co-operated, but i simply felt that the admin investigating the matter wasn't proper and he was refusing my request to speak to another. Saegrimr himself confirmed it by stating that it was a bad time and he was the "Worst admin of the bunch" to come investigate.
Edit: As of posting this appeal he decided to include OOC in IC, (Preventing the HoS from escaping as a nonantag, OOC in IC, refusing to cooperate in PMs) hilarious... i presume this is about our knowledge of what they say through PDA using T-Comms and thus, effectively being one step ahead of them?
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
So you believe it was me now?
I added the OOC in IC afterwards while going through the logs because of
[08:24:52]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Ssshesss a validhunting captain, coversss.
and changed HoS to captain because apparently she was the captain dressed up as the HoS, I don't quite know what their deal is with costumes so whatever.
Anyway here's some logs. Trimmed to show all instances of both of your ckeys an "PDA:"
So after some mildly passive aggressive exchanges of mean words, you take the initiative to jump her. Stun her, and then proceed to claim it was in self defense because she was threatening you. To quote you, "[08:46:23]ADMIN: PM: Pascal123/(Betrays-Its-Kin)->Saegrimr/(Curtis Bennett): How is it against the rules to take precautionary measures to save yourself?"
Attack logs also show zero attacks coming from Sequoia, they were all received starting with when you first tazed her.
So congratulations on instigating the fight, you can take a couple days off from the server and maybe cool down from your basil metacircle fighting.
I added the OOC in IC afterwards while going through the logs because of
[08:24:52]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Ssshesss a validhunting captain, coversss.
and changed HoS to captain because apparently she was the captain dressed up as the HoS, I don't quite know what their deal is with costumes so whatever.
Anyway here's some logs. Trimmed to show all instances of both of your ckeys an "PDA:"
Spoiler:
Attack logs also show zero attacks coming from Sequoia, they were all received starting with when you first tazed her.
So congratulations on instigating the fight, you can take a couple days off from the server and maybe cool down from your basil metacircle fighting.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Pascal123
- Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 am
- Byond Username: Pascal123
- Location: My house.
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
Welp, i guess you can't play around on these servers, huh?
Guess we might as-well bore ourselves to death, then.
As I've stated before. it's called playing along.
Guess we might as-well bore ourselves to death, then.
As I've stated before. it's called playing along.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
Just because there isn't a specific rule of "Rule 854: You cannot ambush and strand the captain for saying mean things to you" doesn't mean its okay.
Your "fun" does not come at the expense of others. Save it for when you're an antag.
Secondly if I get any word of you holding grudges for things that have happened in past rounds, i'll be removing you permanently.
Shit like this
[08:24:52]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Ssshesss a validhunting captain, coversss.
[08:24:55]SAY: Sequoia Irons/Rsmr : ...Fire?
[08:24:55]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Like...
[08:25:01]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Ssshe jussst wantsss to kill people.
[08:25:02]SAY: Sequoia Irons/Rsmr : I'm calling it, then.
[08:25:06]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : One ssshift ssshe killed multiple people for fun.
Does not fly here.
Your "fun" does not come at the expense of others. Save it for when you're an antag.
Secondly if I get any word of you holding grudges for things that have happened in past rounds, i'll be removing you permanently.
Shit like this
[08:24:52]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Ssshesss a validhunting captain, coversss.
[08:24:55]SAY: Sequoia Irons/Rsmr : ...Fire?
[08:24:55]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Like...
[08:25:01]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : Ssshe jussst wantsss to kill people.
[08:25:02]SAY: Sequoia Irons/Rsmr : I'm calling it, then.
[08:25:06]SAY: Betrays-Its-Kin/Pascal123 : One ssshift ssshe killed multiple people for fun.
Does not fly here.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Pascal123
- Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 am
- Byond Username: Pascal123
- Location: My house.
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
Sure sounds like you're cherry picking and dodging some things here.
Not sure why I'd expect any better, Lmao.
Not sure why I'd expect any better, Lmao.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
If you feel like you have a specific instance to prove me wrong where you
1: Didn't ambush the captain and prevent her from escaping on the shuttle because of mean words
2: Didn't accuse someone of "validhunting" and killing people in previous rounds, using that as some sort of justification of your actions during the conflict.
Please inform me, otherwise i'll just be closing this.
1: Didn't ambush the captain and prevent her from escaping on the shuttle because of mean words
2: Didn't accuse someone of "validhunting" and killing people in previous rounds, using that as some sort of justification of your actions during the conflict.
Please inform me, otherwise i'll just be closing this.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: TheNightingale
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
Anyone mind if I just...
Spoiler:
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
All PDA messages sent/recieved by Sequoia that round.
There were no threats or rallies to kill anybody. At most is "I'm probably going to get killed because I have to check in on this guy talking shit in engineering"
All lines of text spoken by Sequoia from the time she logged in to the time you jumped her in engineering.
Again, no rallies to the crew to take down anybody, except for some unknown "spear guy" who broke into the armory.
There were no threats or rallies to kill anybody. At most is "I'm probably going to get killed because I have to check in on this guy talking shit in engineering"
Spoiler:
Again, no rallies to the crew to take down anybody, except for some unknown "spear guy" who broke into the armory.
Spoiler:
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Pascal123
- Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 am
- Byond Username: Pascal123
- Location: My house.
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
As stated above.
It is purely RP and neither of us had any ill-will and simply seeked to play the game as In-Character as possible.
My reasoning for stating that she was a valid-hunting captain, Is because Covers was expressing fear of punishment simply for defending her own department, To which betrays attempted to comfort her by stating that, quite frankly, Sequoia has done far worse. hence why i believe you are cherry picking. You are not taking the entire thing into context, just bits and pieces and then posting those bits and pieces.
We ambushed her for logical reason, she was attempting to fight us and had firearms at the ready and refused to heed our request for her to steer clear of our location.
To you, it may seem odd. To everyone else? Again, it's our characters being our characters, and us trying to enjoy a shift.
But since you're doing that, i may as-well point out some things myself from your little log excerpts. Keep in mind, Logs are not visual. You do not know where she was, what she was doing, or when she was saying it.
And then theres this, from the very previous shift, which would (At least to me) imply that this is Sequoias form of RP.
If this doesn't indicate that she has no qualms with murdering people as Captain then i don't even know what to say.
It is purely RP and neither of us had any ill-will and simply seeked to play the game as In-Character as possible.
My reasoning for stating that she was a valid-hunting captain, Is because Covers was expressing fear of punishment simply for defending her own department, To which betrays attempted to comfort her by stating that, quite frankly, Sequoia has done far worse. hence why i believe you are cherry picking. You are not taking the entire thing into context, just bits and pieces and then posting those bits and pieces.
We ambushed her for logical reason, she was attempting to fight us and had firearms at the ready and refused to heed our request for her to steer clear of our location.
To you, it may seem odd. To everyone else? Again, it's our characters being our characters, and us trying to enjoy a shift.
But since you're doing that, i may as-well point out some things myself from your little log excerpts. Keep in mind, Logs are not visual. You do not know where she was, what she was doing, or when she was saying it.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: TheNightingale
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
It's not a long stretch to believe that this...
[08:11:23]PDA: Sucks-her-Tail (PDA: PDA-Sucks-her-Tail (Janitor)) sent "No, because I have to go into engineering and Covers threatened to gib the next person to break in." to PDA-Sequoia Irons (Captain)
[08:11:34]PDA: Sequoia Irons (PDA: PDA-Sequoia Irons (Captain)) sent "Guess where I'm going." to PDA-Sucks-her-Tail (Janitor)
... indicates implied intent to kill Covers (and her friend Betrays, who would inevitably try to help her) in Engineering. I draw attention to the timestamp of the last message - 08:11:34. This was after she said "I can legally just assign people death warrants" (08:09:33), and "I can choose who's cloned after I personally follow up on any death warrants" (08:10:13). The fact that she said 'I personally follow up' indicates she herself would be following through with any threats she made or people she wanted killed, and so, combined with the fact that she was going to Engineering to stop Covers (which Betrays knew, though Sequoia did not know he knew this), indicates hostility.
This hostility led the accused to prepare a weapon and restrain Sequoia (indeed, that she carried a revolver - a lethal weapon - hints at her intent there), invoking her ire. That the accused let her go anyway indicates their lack of hostile intent and hope for an ultimately peaceful resolution - however, she was not prevented from leaving because of these mean words, but rather because of what followed after her release: I believe Pascal claimed the "rallies to the crew" were after being taken down in Engineering (and after Stan's arrival) - so the logs before Engineering would, naturally, not show this.
[08:11:23]PDA: Sucks-her-Tail (PDA: PDA-Sucks-her-Tail (Janitor)) sent "No, because I have to go into engineering and Covers threatened to gib the next person to break in." to PDA-Sequoia Irons (Captain)
[08:11:34]PDA: Sequoia Irons (PDA: PDA-Sequoia Irons (Captain)) sent "Guess where I'm going." to PDA-Sucks-her-Tail (Janitor)
... indicates implied intent to kill Covers (and her friend Betrays, who would inevitably try to help her) in Engineering. I draw attention to the timestamp of the last message - 08:11:34. This was after she said "I can legally just assign people death warrants" (08:09:33), and "I can choose who's cloned after I personally follow up on any death warrants" (08:10:13). The fact that she said 'I personally follow up' indicates she herself would be following through with any threats she made or people she wanted killed, and so, combined with the fact that she was going to Engineering to stop Covers (which Betrays knew, though Sequoia did not know he knew this), indicates hostility.
This hostility led the accused to prepare a weapon and restrain Sequoia (indeed, that she carried a revolver - a lethal weapon - hints at her intent there), invoking her ire. That the accused let her go anyway indicates their lack of hostile intent and hope for an ultimately peaceful resolution - however, she was not prevented from leaving because of these mean words, but rather because of what followed after her release: I believe Pascal claimed the "rallies to the crew" were after being taken down in Engineering (and after Stan's arrival) - so the logs before Engineering would, naturally, not show this.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
Gee golly maybe its because of threatening to gib people while being antagonistic to everything? Oh wait that's your "RP".Pascal123 wrote:It is purely RP and neither of us had any ill-will and simply seeked to play the game as In-Character as possible.
My reasoning for stating that she was a valid-hunting captain, Is because Covers was expressing fear of punishment simply for defending her own department, To which betrays attempted to comfort her by stating that, [...]
We ambushed her for logical reason, she was attempting to fight us and had firearms at the ready and refused to heed our request for her to steer clear of our location.
If your entire roleplay gimmick is to be a confrontational asshole looking to start a fight, maybe you should consider a new gimmick. Or a new server.
Pascal123 wrote:quite frankly, Sequoia has done far worse. hence why i believe you are cherry picking. You are not taking the entire thing into context, just bits and pieces and then posting those bits and pieces.
Do you not understand what I mean when I say "holding grudges for things that have happened in past rounds"?Pascal123 wrote:And then theres this, from the very previous shift, which would (At least to me) imply that this is Sequoias form of RP.
Do not do it. This is not allowed in the slightest, not a single fucking bit. I give absolutely zero fucks what she's done to you last round, a week ago, or three years ago.
Suck it up and play out the current round.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Pascal123
- Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 am
- Byond Username: Pascal123
- Location: My house.
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
You really like to insinuate some sort of metagrudging, especially when practically demanding logs that would imply there is logical reasoning behind the fear of being murdered by somebody, I did NOT, anywhere, ever. state that it was THE reason for preventing them from boarding a pod after numerous threats. is this what you do on all appeals? I feel like it may be.
I don't even know why you're so concerned with the final two minutes of a round, anyways.
As you said yourself. "Suck it up and play out the current round."
I don't even know why you're so concerned with the final two minutes of a round, anyways.
As you said yourself. "Suck it up and play out the current round."
Last edited by Pascal123 on Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
You make it really easy when part of your argument is "But previous rounds! Its our RP!"
Closing this until another admin wakes up to review this with, because arguing with you is going nowhere.
Closing this until another admin wakes up to review this with, because arguing with you is going nowhere.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [Sagrimr]Pascal123-Non-Existent Rule, Refusing to Co-ope
This ban has been expired for ages.
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