[HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

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Hibbles
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm
Byond Username: HotelBravoLima
Location: United States

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Hibbles » #112344

Bottom post of the previous page:

Yep, I've been waffling a lot on this. Hence this thread at all. I wanted to see whether Tornadium would do the Phoenix Wright villanous breakdown like Kavaloosh, or what people thought in general.

Okay, I'm going to reduce the serverban to a month, which is still a long dang time. But during this time I'd strongly suggest literally not playing any SS13. At all. Go find something else to do. If you want to come back in a month, well. I know a few sizable breaks from this game did wonders for me.

I'm going to put on a perma secban as well if you do decide to return, you can appeal that after you're back playing and it's established you're doing alright. As for you right now, you're not the type of person we want playing Security. Or on the server at all, hence the perma, but Hell.

Either you get better or the other thing happens, and either way it's no longer our problem. I'm pretty sure you know I won't sit by if your behavior just restarts, and since I'm literally the only admin on the case, yeah.
RIP
Tornadium
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 11:55 am
Byond Username: Tornadium

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Tornadium » #112349

Hibbles wrote:Yep, I've been waffling a lot on this. Hence this thread at all. I wanted to see whether Tornadium would do the Phoenix Wright villanous breakdown like Kavaloosh, or what people thought in general.

Okay, I'm going to reduce the serverban to a month, which is still a long dang time. But during this time I'd strongly suggest literally not playing any SS13. At all. Go find something else to do. If you want to come back in a month, well. I know a few sizable breaks from this game did wonders for me.

I'm going to put on a perma secban as well if you do decide to return, you can appeal that after you're back playing and it's established you're doing alright. As for you right now, you're not the type of person we want playing Security. Or on the server at all, hence the perma, but Hell.

Either you get better or the other thing happens, and either way it's no longer our problem. I'm pretty sure you know I won't sit by if your behavior just restarts, and since I'm literally the only admin on the case, yeah.
I'm not sure I quite understand, Why am I getting a perma sec banned if every single note I have regarding security was deemed to be shitty and overturned?

You're acting like reducing it to a month is generous, I'm not going to lie to you hell I'm actually very surprised. I didn't deserve a perma or a month ban from the server based on my playstyle I feel, At least in the context of what other people have received for significantly worse conduct. I think is should also be considered in the context of the length of time I've been around without incident.

Can you at least elaborate as to why you don't want me playing as security or on the server at all? I'm not going to learn anything without some kind of guidance. I'd like to hear what members of the community think regarding what you would suggest to become a player that you want on the server. From what I'm seeing at least from a few policy threads and the threads in the general forums there are a lot of people who are disgruntled with the handling of issues similar to my own. Hell the last Security issue I had was called out as being straight up retarded and if you take into account the whole "executiing without authorization" rule getting changed there wasn't a single thing about my conduct that was debatable (hell scones was even lying about events in an attempt to get me banned).
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Falamazeer
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:05 am
Byond Username: Wootanon

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Falamazeer » #112372

One step forward two steps back.
You got a month to self reflect why so few really taking your side on these issues. taking the overmoderation on security plight into your own plight is a decent defense, but many managed to plod along even under the stifling old rules without that much attention. and Like I said in your old thread, you really aren't the worst on the force, once you've redeemed yourself quietly re-apply for security permissions and it'll be fine, by then the growing pains of new sec rules will be over, and you probably wouldn't survive the extra scrutiny during the ensuing precedent ban war as all the admins struggle to pull the game in different directions via establishing precedents for bans on them

Also, Considering the harshness of it, and again I'm not on tornadiums side, but he has shown the ability to show restraint, and I feel bad for shitting on him because of it, but this ban went into effect on the third, is that month ban starting now? or does he get credit for time served?
otherwise it's a month +11 days
Malkevin

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Malkevin » #112382

But what is the reason he's been banned for?
Especially the sec perma, considering that every single sec ban he's had has been successfully appealed, and most of them were only applied in the first place due to actual real genuine admin bias. (you make jokes about the admin conspiracy but then you go and do something that actually proves it exists - his only crime was that he whined too much).

The only thing he has done that was actually wrong was be an emagged borg and kill people even though his master had told him not to.
I've been trying to think of an actual precedence of that and I struggle to recall anyone attempting to appeal it - which either means that the people that punished for it were only slapped on the wrist with a warning or the bans were so short that every single person that got banned because of it never appealed it because it was so short they were willing to admit they fucked up and take it on the chin (and given some of the ridiculous appeals I've seen, I highly doubt that. )
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Hibbles
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm
Byond Username: HotelBravoLima
Location: United States

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Hibbles » #112472

The point is that it's a judgement call based on how the player acts and whether they shit up the game for others, like it's always been in this case. Hence Rule Zero Permaban.

No precedent or specific rule is needed to remove a person being a giant pain in the ass for other people, it never has been and it never will be. However, if you'd like one, check out my favorite verbal punching bag Pasikonik. He was removed purely for being such a gigantic pain in the neck to every person who wasn't him in any situation. I'm not saying Tornadium is anywhere near that level or this would have happened long ago, but it's an example.

Actually, as I alluded to in my ban reason, there is another aspect that made me resort to this. I brought Tornadium in to #supportbus to try and hash things out and as a sort of last test aftrer the rest of the admin team was collectively ready to drop the nukes. He proved extremely amenable and we had a good talk. Kor even got involved, and basically my understanding was Tornadium agreed to stop being Tornadium for a while.

It wasn't a formal probation, but right after that, the secborg emagging thing happened and then the thread over that happened. Feel free to go read that if you need to know why I was ready to pull the trigger.

EDIT: Thread unlocked, it was locked prematurely by me, rip.
RIP
onleavedontatme
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by onleavedontatme » #112537

Tornadium requested the thread be unlocked so he could post a response, so here it is.
Tornadium
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 11:55 am
Byond Username: Tornadium

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Tornadium » #112540

Okay so,

Having been informed this is somewhat pointless after the thread was unlocked because HBL was the last admin who didn't want to just leave me perma-banned and he isn't going to change his mind at all so I guess I'll make this short and just skip what I had to say in my defense.

I'll instead ask two questions

1. My Security bans were all lifted and judged to be shitty as my conduct was fine, What do I need to do to improve my conduct as a security player for my ban to be lifted. I would like some guidance on what I did wrong (If my bans were all lifted because they were bad bans, I don't feel they should be used as a frame of reference especially when one of the ADMINS involved lied".

2.
As for you right now, you're not the type of person we want playing Security. Or on the server at all, hence the perma, but Hell.
Can you tell me what this means? Or give me some guidance on what I need to do to improve on this instead of throwing this vague reference to my conduct without telling me what I did wrong? (Beyond the obvious method handling appeals). Barring the Silicon incident (I still feel that's contended as some members of the community have voiced agreement with my own perception of events as well as precedents in the past of security members getting straight up sec banned for emagging cyborgs) what in my conduct while playing the game was worthy of being perma banned? Can you please just spell it out for me so I can avoid it in the future? Other people got off with significantly more lenient punishments for execssive racism, erp rape, bombing, repeated griefing etc.

I'm just seriously not sure what I did wrong, I'd like for someone to just tell me where all these claims of my shit conduct are coming from. All of my security bans were lifted, because they were retarded. I had two notes since 2013 before recently and one was self confessed that I fucked up with a bomb.

So yeah thanks in advance.

Edit :
Malkevin wrote:
The only thing he has done that was actually wrong was be an emagged borg and kill people even though his master had told him not to.
I've been trying to think of an actual precedence of that and I struggle to recall anyone attempting to appeal it - which either means that the people that punished for it were only slapped on the wrist with a warning or the bans were so short that every single person that got banned because of it never appealed it because it was so short they were willing to admit they fucked up and take it on the chin (and given some of the ridiculous appeals I've seen, I highly doubt that. )
Just wanted to add this in, The only thing I could find was Kessel who got banned back in 2012 for emagging a borg as a security officer. He told the borg not to go around killing everyone and the borg killed a bunch of people because of law 1. The Sec officer was banned for emagging a borg and the borg was told basically don't do it again.

He plays eve with me and garrus etc back in Test and now PL/Waffles so I guess I can get him to come in here and post?
Tornadium
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 11:55 am
Byond Username: Tornadium

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Tornadium » #112837

Don't really want to have to go into IRC again to ask if this is going to get a reply, I've been told other admins have been constantly asking for the thread to be locked and to just "be done with me" but I would really appreciate an answer before you do that.

Thanks.
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Vekter
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Byond Username: Vekter
Location: Fucking around with the engine.

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Vekter » #112857

This is getting silly and has been handled fucking ridiculously. I'll make sure someone, be it HBL or a headmin, makes a reply to this ASAP.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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Hibbles
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm
Byond Username: HotelBravoLima
Location: United States

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Hibbles » #112891

I've had this unpleasant feeling that I made a mistake all throughout this, hence asking for feedback from players, admins, headmins, my weird handling of this whole situation. Since the headmins have left it up to me and me alone to decide, I'm reversing the decision I made.
Spoiler:
[14:25] <Tornadium> From my understanding you don't really even know whats going on either
[14:25] <hotelbravolima> Yeah, that's accurate.
[14:25] <Tornadium> I would love to know where the hate comes from
[14:25] <hotelbravolima> Basically I wanted to back up my other admins, take the heat for them, do what they found unpleasant, etc.
[14:25] <hotelbravolima> That was kinda my idea.
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> It used to be the admin 'team' was a joke that never worked together and we kinda hated each other years back
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> but now we work together
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> that's usually good
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> but sometimes it results in things like this
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> or the summoner thing.
I'm removing the bans and notes that resulted from me.
RIP
Tornadium
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 11:55 am
Byond Username: Tornadium

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Tornadium » #112894

Hibbles wrote:I've had this unpleasant feeling that I made a mistake all throughout this, hence asking for feedback from players, admins, headmins, my weird handling of this whole situation. Since the headmins have left it up to me and me alone to decide, I'm reversing the decision I made.
Spoiler:
[14:25] <Tornadium> From my understanding you don't really even know whats going on either
[14:25] <hotelbravolima> Yeah, that's accurate.
[14:25] <Tornadium> I would love to know where the hate comes from
[14:25] <hotelbravolima> Basically I wanted to back up my other admins, take the heat for them, do what they found unpleasant, etc.
[14:25] <hotelbravolima> That was kinda my idea.
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> It used to be the admin 'team' was a joke that never worked together and we kinda hated each other years back
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> but now we work together
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> that's usually good
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> but sometimes it results in things like this
[14:26] <hotelbravolima> or the summoner thing.
I'm removing the bans and notes that resulted from me.
Great, As I already said thank you very much.

I appreciate it.
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Vekter
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Byond Username: Vekter
Location: Fucking around with the engine.

Re: [HBL] Tornadium - Permaban

Post by Vekter » #112898

I wash my hands of this madness.
Image
Image
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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