[Shaps] - Day Ban

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:55 pm #125452

Round still on-going will unspoiler when finished.

Spoiler:

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:03 pm #125453

>[Shaps] - Day Ban For Killing A Ling

>Round still on-going will unspoiler when finished.
>will unspoiler
>[Shaps] - Day Ban For Killing A Ling
> For Killing A Ling
>A Ling
>will unspoiler

come the fuck on

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:04 pm #125454

imblyings wrote:stuff

Yeah I kinda fucked that one up, Didn't realize at the time due to being pissed. Title should be fixed now sorry about that.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:26 pm #125462

Round is now over

As a non-antag engineer it is absolutely not okay to follow someone alone in maint because you think he has a paper (which a few people in deadchat said he didn't even have one in the first place, but I didn't see personally), stab him in the eye with a screwdriver and try to cuff him, and then when said person fights back to defend themselves, jump straight to lethals and kill him. He wasn't even a ling, the reason he fell down and got back up was because you were stabbing him in the eye with a screwdriver, which causes stuns. So basically, you concocted a bunch of bad reasons to kill a random person as a non-antag, which is awful and something we don't want here at all

Also what would spoilering your text even do, that doesn't suddenly make it okay to post information about an ongoing round just because you have to do an extra click to read the post

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:31 pm #125464

Shaps wrote:As a non-antag engineer it is absolutely not okay to follow someone alone in maint because you think he has a paper (which a few people in deadchat said he didn't even have one in the first place, but I didn't see personally), stab him in the eye with a screwdriver and try to cuff him, and then when said person fights back to defend themselves, jump straight to lethals and kill him. He wasn't even a ling, the reason he fell down and got back up was because you were stabbing him in the eye with a screwdriver, which causes stuns. So basically, you concocted a bunch of bad reasons to kill a random person as a non-antag, which is awful and something we don't want here at all

Also what would spoilering your text even do, that doesn't suddenly make it okay to post information about an ongoing round just because you have to do an extra click to read the post

No, He had a paper. I saw it when I examined and it was dropped during the fight.

I followed him into maint, went into a room where he blocked the door and kept shoving me back inside. At that point I hit him twice and shocked myself (Hitting someone twice to get them to fucking move is not under any circumstances an attempt at murder), at that point I was no longer a threat. He then grabs me, then upgrabs twice to a neck grab. That is him jumping straight to lethal intent, I then respond by trying to knock him into crit. Had he not neck grabbed me as soon as I'm stunned I would not have been as lethal in my response.

So if he wasn't a ling then how the hell was he regenerating health? Why when I examined him did he go from Severe bruising and bleeding to no bleeding and minor bruising mid fight? Also do the stuns last less than a server tick because those "stuns" did. Like what you see when a ling get tased and immediately gets back up and starts running consistently. He also did it 4 times which is the amount you can actually do with a full chem pool as ling if I'm not mistaken.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:34 pm #125467

Initiating the conflict by getting valids but then mis-reading the situation and killing someone innocent sounds kinda bad. Neckgrabs can be construed as lethal but you're the guy that followed him in maint, of all places. Neckgrabs are robust as fuck, it's a good strat to pick from when dealing with someone following you in maint.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:38 pm #125468

No he wasn't a ling, you can't use that excuse. You also can't use the excuse that he attacked you and escalated to lethals out of nowhere because you started it by stabbing him in the eyes with a screwdriver

Also at no point in the attack logs did Lati's health go up, I don't know where you're getting that from.

Here are the attack logs

Code: Select all

[15:26:30]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 98)
[15:26:35]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 93)
[15:26:49]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 67.1)
[15:26:54]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 86)
[15:26:58]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 38.4)
[15:27:03]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) neck-grabbed William Owen(tornadium)  (NEWHP: 38.4)
[15:27:12]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 38.4)
[15:27:14]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) punched Lat Danshi(lati)  (NEWHP: 79)
[15:27:19]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 38.4)
[15:27:20]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with welding tool(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 76)
[15:27:22]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with welding tool(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 63.25)
[15:27:43]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 50.5)
[15:27:55]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 43.5)
[15:27:56]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 43.5)
[15:28:04]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 29.5)
[15:28:05]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 22.5)
[15:28:06]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 22.5)
[15:28:07]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 8.5)
[15:28:09]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 1.49998)
[15:28:10]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -5.50002)
[15:28:11]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -5.50002)
[15:28:12]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -21.1667)
[15:28:13]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -21.1667)
[15:28:14]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -21.1667)
[15:28:15]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -43.8334)
[15:28:16]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: -43.8334)
[15:28:26]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) stripped Lat Danshi(lati) of the satchel (NEWHP: -66.1667)

Lat dealt no damage to tornadium, the damage he took was from shocking himself

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:41 pm #125470

imblyings wrote:Initiating the conflict by getting valids but then mis-reading the situation and killing someone innocent sounds kinda bad. Neckgrabs can be construed as lethal but you're the guy that followed him in maint, of all places. Neckgrabs are robust as fuck, it's a good strat to pick from when dealing with someone following you in maint.

I wasn't "getting valids".

Following a dude into the tunnels is not getting valids. I had plenty of chance to attack him while I was stuck trying to get out of that fucking room.

I only attacked him after I eventually got fed up with him pushing me back into the room.

Neck Grabs are lethal, I don't see how that is up for debate.

No he wasn't a ling, you can't use that excuse. You also can't use the excuse that he attacked you and escalated to lethals out of nowhere because you started it by stabbing him in the eyes with a screwdriver

Also at no point in the attack logs did Lati's health go up, I don't know where you're getting that from.

You told me that, however my shift + click examine showed him going from severe to minor and his bleeding going away mid fight.

I hit him twice because he wouldn't fucking move out of the way and blocked me into a maint room, I didn't attack him prior to that and I was in that room for a bit trying to get out.

Yeah he didn't do any damage to me, He was lagging pretty badly I think because he was reacting really slow.

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:54 pm

I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use disarm to push them over.

Also, neckgrabs are a form of restraint up until strangulation occurs.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:56 pm #125475

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use disarm to push them over.

Also, neckgrabs are a form of restraint up until strangulation occurs.

Panicking?

I already thought this dude was shifty and probably a cultist.

When have you ever seen neck grabs used as a form of restraint? I sure as hell haven't EVER seen it.
I'll make an issue request on github for the health issue and try to figure out what the hell is going on there.

Lati · Post by **Lati** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:57 pm #125476

Well here's my side of the event. I was just being an assistant, trying to find items and proof of the cult from maintenance. I walk into one maintenance but there's a grille blocking my way. I start hitting the grille and suddenly some engineer attacks me and starts stabbing my eyes.

I might have passed a mime on the hallway where I was walking but I wasn't doing anything with anyone at that point. I also didn't have any papers with me. I don't remember picking any papers or having them on me. The only way I could've had a paper was when I was clicking the grille and accidentally picked one up from the maintenance floor but even that seems unlikely.

So, when I was attacked I tried running away further into the maint. Engineer keeps chasing and attacking while I do no counterattacks. We get into a room in maint where he still keeps hitting me. I lose my vision and lots of HP so I figure I can't escape by running anymore so I try grabbing him to prevent those attacks. That was first going well since he stunned himself twice by hitting a cable. He still manages to escape so I hide in a box in the room's corner, the other way from the door. He comes there and keeps attacking me, and this happens twice. I wasn't blocking the door intentionally at any point and he could've escaped when I was hiding in the box, that's what I was hoping he would do.

I got knocked down a couple times by the screwdriver in the eye which might seem like going to crit I think? But I wasn't a ling and had no healing things as Shaps already told.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:01 pm #125478

Lati wrote:Well here's my side of the event. I was just being an assistant, trying to find items and proof of the cult from maintenance. I walk into one maintenance but there's a grille blocking my way. I start hitting the grille and suddenly some engineer attacks me and starts stabbing my eyes.

Horseshit, you ran further into maint and blocked me into a room.

I might have passed a mime on the hallway where I was walking but I wasn't doing anything with anyone at that point. I also didn't have any papers with me. I don't remember picking any papers or having them on me. The only way I could've had a paper was when I was clicking the grille and accidentally picked one up from the maintenance floor but even that seems unlikely.

You were standing literally one tile away from him for the time I saw you, and no you had a paper on you. You dropped it in the room.

So, when I was attacked I tried running away further into the maint. Engineer keeps chasing and attacking while I do no counterattacks. We get into a room in maint where he still keeps hitting me. I lose my vision and lots of HP so I figure I can't escape by running anymore so I try grabbing him to prevent those attacks. That was first going well since he stunned himself twice by hitting a cable. He still manages to escape so I hide in a box in the room's corner, the other way from the door. He comes there and keeps attacking me, and this happens twice. I wasn't blocking the door intentionally at any point and he could've escaped when I was hiding in the box, that's what I was hoping he would do.

Again, the first time I attacked you was when I was inside the room, not outside it and after you had been constantly pushing into me inside the door way.

You attempted the neck grab after I was stunned the first time. I hit you TWICE before the neck grab. The rest is utter horse shit, you were hiding in the box very shortly before you went down the first time.

Check the attack logs, I hit you once, then a pause, attacked and another pause then I get shocked and you go for the neck grab so please don't act like I was following you through the maint tunnels constantly attacking you because that is an utter lie.

I got knocked down a couple times by the screwdriver in the eye which might seem like going to crit I think? But I wasn't a ling and had no healing things as Shaps already told.

This is fair enough, you literally got hit and got straight back up every single time.

I'm making a bug report about this.

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:06 pm #125479

screwdriver eyestabs cause ministuns.
"You drop what you were holding and clutch at your eyes!" or something about bleeding profusely from eyes.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:11 pm #125481

Bluespace wrote:screwdriver eyestabs cause ministuns.
"You drop what you were holding and clutch at your eyes!" or something about bleeding profusely from eyes.

Yeah I'm aware of these ministuns, hence why I went for them.

I was under the impression they last over 0.1 seconds though? And do the mini stuns put you into the whole 'Looks asleep' crit esque text? I don't remember that happening, I remember being knocked down but not knocked out. After talking to people on steam i'm hearing the stun from the screwdriver is not a knockout it's just a knockdown and you drop your items?

Lati · Post by **Lati** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:45 pm #125491

Here's my answer once again with a picture showing the places.

First time I saw the engineer looking at me was at the place 1, where I was hitting the grille with my hand. The engineer attacks me at this place with the screwdriver in the eye.

I try to escape and run to place 2. The engineer keeps hitting me with the screwdriver and accidentally stuns himself. I didn't have cable cuffs or anything so the grab was my only choice. Most of the killing happened here.

I'm close to dying at that point so I check the maint doors next to 2 and get into room 3 and hide inside the cardboard box. He comes to the box, opens it and keeps hitting me. I go hiding there again. He AGAIN opens the box and keeps hitting me.

So most of the fighting happened outside the room where I was trying to do the grab to stop the attack. When I got inside the room I just kept hiding in the box.
Also worth noticing is that I did 0 damage through that fighting. I tried grabbing couple times and disarmed once when he was hitting me with a welder.

The first time I even heard about any paper was when Shaps told me that you saw me holding a paper. I don't remember what I was doing but I can't remember any reason why I would have a paper when there is rumors of cultists.
Even if I had a paper, just attacking someone for holding a paper seems really weird.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:54 pm #125493

Nope, The first attack took place at the door where 2 is marked.

All of the fighting sans me accidentally clicking on the wipe literally just below the door occurred in that room.

I attacked you because you blocked me at the door and wouldn't let me fucking leave, not because you had paper. I followed you because you had paper.

I had hit you twice, TWICE and you were down to what 90hp?

I was stunned and you were outside of the room. All you had to do after the first stun is run away, not grab me and go for a lethal chokehold that you cannot escape from.

Read the combat logs before you make bullshit up please.

For reference

[15:26:30]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 98)
[15:26:35]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 93)
[15:26:49]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 67.1)
[15:26:54]ATTACK: William Owen(tornadium) attacked Lat Danshi(lati) with screwdriver(INTENT: HARM) (NEWHP: 86)
[15:26:58]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 38.4)
[15:27:03]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) neck-grabbed William Owen(tornadium) (NEWHP: 38.4)
[15:27:12]ATTACK: Lat Danshi(lati) grabbed William Owen(tornadium) passively (NEWHP: 38.4)

You were at 93 hp when I first got shocked, you were in absolutely no way restricted nor was I a threat. You stuck around, and went for the kill when you could by your own admission have easily just walked away.

Lati · Post by **Lati** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:00 pm #125495

You were definitely attacking me at 1. That's why I ran to 2 and you kept chasing me. I don't know what logs you're reading.
There weren't even any doors I could block since the way back was just going where we came from. The first time I was near a door when I entered the room 3 to find a place to hide. If you wanted to get away you could've done so at any time but you just kept coming into room 3 and attacking me.

I have no idea why you're just lying about everything. I did 0 damage and you killed me for nothing, that's all there is to it.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:05 pm #125496

Lati wrote:You were definitely attacking me at 1. That's why I ran to 2 and you kept chasing me. I don't know what logs you're reading.
There weren't even any doors I could block since the way back was just going where we came from. The first time I was near a door when I entered the room 3 to find a place to hide. If you wanted to get away you could've done so at any time but you just kept coming into room 3 and attacking me.

I have no idea why you're just lying about everything. I did 0 damage and you killed me for nothing, that's all there is to it.

Okay let me try to explain this again since you literally must have downs or some shit.

You blocked me at the door at number 2 after bolting the fuck off as soon as you saw me. You literally didn't move. I hit you once to see if you would stop, then hit you again to see if you would stop. Waited a little bit again then hit the wire by mistake. At this point I was unarmed, stunned and not in any way a threat to you. You went for a lethal choke hold at that point. You could have ran, you did not.

So where the hell are the attack logs of me constantly attacking you in the tunnel before I shock myself? Hmm?

The combat logs provided by the banning admin show that at the start of the fight I had landed two blows before you start going for that grab, I get another one in while you have me grabbed then hit the damn wire again and you managed to get it up to a neck grab before I can resist out by hammering the key.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:06 pm #125497

Why are we even arguing this, you literally followed someone and started a fight with them and killed them when they tried to defend themselves. That's not okay under any circumstance.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:08 pm #125500

Shaps wrote:Why are we even arguing this, you literally followed someone and started a fight with them and killed them when they tried to defend themselves. That's not okay under any circumstance.

That's not what happened though, I followed a dude who was with a known cultist and i saw with paper into a room in maint.

He blocks me at the door and pushes against me every single time I try to get out of the room. I hit him twice, shock myself and he goes for the lethal choke. That isn't an innocent dude that I "attacked" defending themselves. I was not a threat, at two points before I did more than 15 fucking damage he had every ability to the whole way out of maint before I could even move.

He wanted the fight and he stuck around to escalate it.

Stop trying to pass this off as "Oh you randomly started attacking a dude and kept at it without any provocation". He had me blocked into a fucking room in maint after cult being called and this dude hanging around with the mime and who had paper. I hit him TWICE and he goes for a lethal ggnore choke, do you really expect me not to fight back fully at that point?

Honestly?

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:10 pm #125501

There literally was no cult. No cult. It was a traitor round. The guy was non-antag and had done nothing wrong. Just ask for him to let you leave the room instead of stabbing him in the eyes with a screwdriver, or better yet, don't just run into maint after someone and then attack them wordlessly and wonder why they fight back

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:12 pm #125503

Shaps wrote:There literally was no cult. No cult. It was a traitor round. Just ask for him to let you leave the room, or better yet, don't just run into maint after someone and then attack them wordlessly and wonder why they fight back

Yeah and I'm an omnipotent god with all the information like you?

Dude was sketchy as fuck, wordlessly blocked me into a room in maint and would not let me move. The rest of it is fucking irrelevant, he went for a ggnore choke hold that would have killed me had I not got the resist off. The fight was was good as over as soon as I got shocked because he had at least 12-13 seconds to leave, instead he went for the lethal choke that if he got off I could not have escaped from.

Oh he had that opportunity twice btw.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:28 pm #125508

Grabbing a player is an understandable strat, it leads to total control over a situation while you can still afford to tank the hits. And if you were nice enough to start the whole thing, why is it suddenly a mitigating factor for your actions when he does something robust by going for a neckgrab while you're down? Just like you had no obligation to attack him or follow him, which is plenty suspicious to anyone, he had no obligation to not grab you.

And really, it's your word against his as to what happened in the room.

You still mis-read the situation completely and killed a guy. This is what standard daybans can be handed out for.

/tg/Station 13

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