[Stickymayehm] Charles Schofield|Week jobban for a mistake

[AssassinT90]

Byond account and character name: AssassinT90/Charles Schofield
Admin: Stickymayhem
Time incident occured: 06/29/2014, 04:00 PM (GMT-3)
Detailed summary:
The round begins. I upload a job-identifying script to tcoms, so as to make communication easier between players.

There is no HoS. I invite detective to my office. He will be the new HoS. As I insert the silver ID into the Identification Console, the chaplain Kelenius bursts with guns from armory, where he emagged his way in. I manage to subdue the chaplain and he ends up dead. I then decided to keep the chaplain's e-bow instead of my e-gun. Big mistake. Next thing I do is go to armory and place a barricade so that people can't get the few remaining weapons.

Since we had no AI, I decide to make the traitor chaplain our new AI. Because that's what I do. I keep players in the game. Sadly, Kelenius tells me he was jobbanned from AI. Shortly after that, tcoms is bombed. I fruitlessly try to repair it. After Kelenius tells me it's a double agent round and after seeing tcoms won't be coming back on again, the shuttle is called. While we wait for the shuttle in my office, I hear an e-sword being used in the main hallways. I grab a flash (in case it was a double e-sword) and I go out to see a fully-bloodied security officer dragging another (wounded) security officer AWAY from medbay (he was heading north, towards bridge entrance, instead of east, which was medbay). I shoot him with my e-bow, and reach for my cuffs, only to realize I have none. I keep shooting to keep him down, and then lights run out. I must mention that I was very afraid at this point, so I decided to run inside to the bridge. That's when I get stunned and cuffed and die shortly afterwards.

The officer I shot multiple times (Sven Brunner) with my e-bow went to critical because of the toxin damage. He immediately succumbed to death and ahelped it to Stickymayhem, even though he would certainly have made it if he had stayed in his body.

---

Me and Stickymayhem then had a long discussion about my "powergaming mindset", with me trying to explain that it was a bad mistake that happened at the end of a very stressful round and he not giving a fuck about anything I said. I then told him to ask Kelenius' opinion, the traitor chaplain whose MMI was in my backpack seeing everything. His answer?

Stickymayhem: His opinion is irrelevant to the situation.
Stickymayhem: I don't need a biased second opinion. I have your account, I have his account, I have the logs and I have your extensive history. [Does that sound like profiling to you?]

Later on:

AssassinT90: So you're not going to ask Kelenius what he thinks?
Stickymayhem: No because Kelenius' opinion is irrelevant. I have the situation. [Does that also sound to you any bit like someone who has already made his mind and isn't willing to change it?]
Stickymayhem: I determine the motive behind your actions, I determine the factors and I determine what happened by the logs. [In short: I AM THE LAW!
Is this admin really saying that the situation is irrelevant? Is he really saying that all that matters is logs?]

---

I'm honestly sorry about the officer that died. And I am also sorry that Stickymayhem is not willing to take anything other than "the logs" into consideration. And then he banned me:
You have been banned by stickymayhem.
Reason: Critted a security officer with an ebow for dragging another security officer. Indicative of his powergaming mindset, assuming they must be a traitor and deciding to attack them just in case. Claimed that it was based on his lack of cuffs, which isn't good enough, as well as his fear, which isn't really good enough either. He is a decent guy but his playstyle just doesn't change and he isn't acknowledging his mistake in the slightest.

Notice this bit: he isn't acknowledging his mistake in the slightest.
Now notice this:

PM to-Admins: Perhaps you should consider that I don't have perfect knowledge of everything?
PM to-Admins: That I have to make certain choices in emergencies, and that improvisation often ends up with mistakes?
(...)
PM to-Admins: Yes. It was a mistake to carry an e-bow.
PM to-Admins: I know. The e-bow was a mistake. Yes. It was a mistake.
(...)
PM to-Admins: Yes. I fucked up. Was it because I meant it? No. I tried hard to let everyone have a fun round.
(...)
PM to-Admins: Yeah. I'm not being a condom. I'm actually going out there and doing shit, even if that means I make mistakes from time to time.
(...)
PM to-Admins: When you play captain six hours per day, one mistake or another will happen.
(...)
PM to-Admins: You just lock into a mistake and say: Look, that's all he does, guys. He's a powergamer.

And, well, I'm going to finish with this:

Stickymayhem: Your mistake is that you feel cornered and like your only option is to shoot someone. But honestly, you could just let yourself die.

Great advice! Thank you, Stickymayhem.

---

Aaand, to the video:
Please, note at 01:20 the conversation:

Charles Schofield: Wasn't that guy the one with the e-sword?
Gonzalo Trident: What?
Charles Schofield: Ah, I wish I had cuffs. [All the shots with e-bow would be unecessary if I had cuffs]
Kelenius: Looked like so.

And remember: The video begins after I heard the e-sword hits.

[youtube]C37fXjXmNMw[/youtube]

[AssassinT90]

I'd like to make it clear that I was not only jobbanned for a week from head/security roles, I was also given a 24h ban.

[elyina]

That video confirms your guilt if anything.

You examine him, see the sec ID, and hear his voice. That pretty much confirms it's really him. Then you go "You're sec" and crit him anyway. Nice.

[AssassinT90]

That video confirms your guilt if anything.

You examine him, see the sec ID, and hear his voice. That pretty much confirms it's really him. Then you go "You're sec" and crit him anyway. Nice.

It's really great when you can pause the video an examine everything calmly. I didn't get to see his ID. Neither did Kelenius. Perhaps that's why he found the assumption reasonable, and you don't. Because you weren't there.

Oh, and the "You're sec" was meant to be a question.

[Stickymayhem]

I spoke to you for a good 60 minutes after the event trying to persuade you that your mindset needs to change. The video confirms that I had the situation right from your description and the logs. You critted an officer by using a traitor weapon with lethal damage because you had no cuffs. Well not having handcuffs has never been an excuse for using lethal force. Ever.

Describing how good you were outside the situation is fine, but it doesn't really change that you immediately began to shoot an officer for take a couple of steps towards the bridge in order to save his buddy. You used lethal force, acted instantly and without thinking, and as a result the Captain frustrated an officer to the point that he succumbed. The officer was the first to admit that succumbing wasn't a great move, but he was just critted by the Captain for trying to save his fellow officer so I understand his frustration.

As for your comments attached to our conversation:

AssassinT90: So you're not going to ask Kelenius what he thinks?
Stickymayhem: No because Kelenius' opinion is irrelevant. I have the situation. [Does that also sound to you any bit like someone who has already made his mind and isn't willing to change it?]

I did make up my mind and was unwilling to change it. By that point we had been speaking for at least thirty minutes and I had already consulted adminbus about the length of your ban. I was trying to get through to you that you had made a mistake based on the idea that you had to react instantly rather than just maybe possibly die, which is indicative of a powergaming mindset. You'd rather take the risk of critting someone totally innocent than possibly encounter the chance of death.

Stickymayhem: I determine the motive behind your actions, I determine the factors and I determine what happened by the logs. [In short: I AM THE LAW!
Is this admin really saying that the situation is irrelevant? Is he really saying that all that matters is logs?]

I'm saying that unless you are under immediate, certain threat, a situation does not warrant lethal force. The situation was actually pretty irrelevant, as seen in the video. You see them and you ebow them into crit without any hesitation. The logs showed this clearly and are completely confirmed by the video. This was a clear cut situation, so yes, all I needed, in this case, were the logs and testimony of you too. I know you were angered that Kelenius wasn't asked about the situation, but his take really wouldn't have added anything to what I was already aware of.

Stickymayhem: His opinion is irrelevant to the situation.
Stickymayhem: I don't need a biased second opinion. I have your account, I have his account, I have the logs and I have your extensive history. [Does that sound like profiling to you?]

It is profiling. When someone has an extensive history of powergaming and overusing lethal force, and then they powergame and overuse lethal force again, it's pretty fair to profile them as someone who powergames and overuses lethal force.

Stickymayhem: Your mistake is that you feel cornered and like your only option is to shoot someone. But honestly, you could just let yourself die.

Great advice! Thank you, Stickymayhem.

The fact that you are so incapable of considering death as something that you could ever let happen is pretty demonstrative of your powergaming. You act like dying in spessmans is the worst possible outcome when it really isn't. Sometimes you just have to die. Every good player does this with meta info. When a borg asks you to follow it somewhere secluded, you go to your death knowlingly. It's a part of the game. Being so afraid of death that you're willing to kill innocents to avoid it just isn't a way to play that's conducive to everyone's fun. It's only fun for you. I admit that it wasn't the best advice to give, but after forty minutes of you saying you would die if you didn't fire, I just outright tried to force the idea that dying in a game isn't so bad into your head.

You acknowledged that using the ebow was a bad idea, but I was trying to persuade you to see that it was the act of firing on the officer at all that was the poor decision. An officer is dragging another officer and your first instinct is to begin firing repeatedly on them with whatever you have handy because you intended to cuff them but didn't have any spare. That's just being a dick for no good reason other than to survive.

Anyway the video speaks for itself and demonstrates your poor actions. I spent a very long time speaking with you and I'd really like to avoid an extended conversation here. I won't personally lift the ban, but if any admin disagrees with this ban, please do lift it and give me a heads up for your reasoning on it.

EDIT: Also that OOC in IC at the end is pretty bad. Wanting security officers to be antag as Captain is a pretty silly thing to say and blatantly out of character. You should avoid that in future.

[AssassinT90]

You see them and you ebow them into crit without any hesitation. The logs showed this clearly and are completely confirmed by the video.

Wrong. Dead wrong. I shot him. I examined him. I saw blood on his clothes. I heard what he said. I heard what Geist Dangerous said ("oh sweet justice"). And you still go on that biased, unchangeable view of yours that I decided it was a great idea to shoot him to crit.

I didn't even know he had died until you talked to me. Honestly, your whole argumentation is based on the flawed premise that I shot him to death willingly. Tell me, since you have access to the logs:
How many times was he shot? Was it 10 times? Because that's what it takes for toxin damage from ebow to be lethal on a healthy human being. So unless I shot him 10 times, stop spewing that "you critted him without hesitation" bullshit of yours, because I'm really getting annoyed by it. You are either very ignorant if you truly believe that or a flat lier.

The fact that you are so incapable of considering death as something that you could ever let happen is pretty demonstrative of your powergaming.

Powergaming is playing to win. Surviving is not wining. I play for fun, and to have fun I have to play. I don't play when I'm dead, so I mostly avoid being dead. Please, get your concepts of powergaming straight before you use it in any argumentation.

You act like dying in spessmans is the worst possible outcome when it really isn't. Sometimes you just have to die. Every good player does this with meta info. When a borg asks you to follow it somewhere secluded, you go to your death knowlingly.

You're not defining a good player. There's a huge difference between a good player and a suicidal player.

I did make up my mind and was unwilling to change it.
(...) It is profiling.

If that is the kind of attitude that is accepted here, I'm out.

[elyina]

don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you

also you're posting a ban appeal in admin complaints which isn't allowed, moved to appeals.

[AssassinT90]

Wrong. This is an admin complaint. Not a ban appeal. I don't give two fucks about the ban.

[Hibbles]

Nope.