[okand37] Father_of_intervention - TempBan

[The_Father]

Byond account and character name: Father_of_Intervention - Samuel Rodrigues
Banning admin: okand37
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Tempban
Ban reason and length: Wanted to search another player on the shuttle for cultist tomes because they had a 'balaclava and that looked kind of sketch.' It escalated to them tasing them when they refused to accept a search, then they took their weapon. When the other player tried to get it back and defend themself they killed them. 1440 minutes.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 10:35 pm Central Standard
Your side of the story: First this didn't happen on the shuttle, it was cult round I was chaplain I was doing my things, the cult was stomped really hard, i'm now patrolling around and I walk into dorms and see a assistant in all black with insulated gloves and a balaclava, I ask to search him he starts to run, i tase him and search him, find some strange shit but nothing culty, grab the egun out of his backpack, he starts disarming me, he grabs egun and turns on lethals and started lasering me, I disabler him and kill him out of self defense with my sword
Why you think you should be unbanned: I see it as a bit unfair to ban me in self defense when its a cult round

[Okand37]

Lets lay out the details.

You search him to see if he was a cultist... on the basis of him wearing a balaclava. You then tase and force search him when they 'act fidgety.' After this, you see they have a gun so you pull it out and take it from them, to which they then tried to take it back and so you killed them.
You started the escalation over a random search because they had a balaclava, and ended it with killing them when they tried to take their weapon back. While you may be a chaplain during a cult round, you still aren't security, so you don't really have an excuse to be 'confiscating' their guns.

Denied.

[The_Father]

Lets lay out the details.

You search him to see if he was a cultist... on the basis of him wearing a balaclava. You then tase and force search him when they 'act fidgety.' After this, you see they have a gun so you pull it out and take it from them, to which they then tried to take it back and so you killed them.
You started the escalation over a random search because they had a balaclava, and ended it with killing them when they tried to take their weapon back. While you may be a chaplain during a cult round, you still aren't security, so you don't really have an excuse to be 'confiscating' their guns.

Denied.

I did not attack first with lethal force that is a down right lie, there where two known cults and shit was pretty fucked, I took the egun because he was a assistant, and he disarmed me and tried to laser me down, I searched him because he was a assistant who was sketchy and if I do remember it was code red which means random searches where allowed and my hunch wasn't 100% correct but he had a egun on him regardless and I picked up said taser on the ground which was next to him

[Slignerd]

Well, since the moment the assistant managed to get their weapon back, he attempted to laser the chaplain for taking it from him earlier, responding with equal force doesn't really seem that excessive.

[onleavedontatme]

While you may be a chaplain during a cult round, you still aren't security, so you don't really have an excuse to be 'confiscating' their guns.

I don't think it's really fair to tell chaplains they should be acting like civillians when the game mechanics pretty explicitly push the chaplain towards fighting cultists.

I guess my opinion on this really comes down to

he attempted to laser the chaplain

If this is true.

[Okand37]

Can't say I saw or heard anything of the sort at the time, since I was juggling two other issues about the shuttle (which is where this was brought up at.) I'm still not entirely convinced, as you did start a random search on them for the reason of wearing a balaclava. Its not as much that I expect a chaplain to act like a civilian during a cultist gamemode as much as that I expect them to hold to a standard that security is held to if they are promoted to or join security.

I don't really think that the situation that led up to this was acceptable, especially due to the initial reason you force-searched them was because of a balaclava. I didn't have a chance to verify logs, so mostly it went off the known situation along with your responses and reasoning (ie: "because they were wearing a balaclava and that was sketch") You did start disabling them after they tried to take their weapon back, and they did fire a total of two lasers on you, and you did end up killing them straight off with your sword. I'm still not personally convinced due to the reasoning that led up to this, as you did instigate the situation over an extremely absurd reason.

I will however lower your ban to a half-day because I did not fully investigate into the situation before putting up a ban, and that is on me. I do however hold to the point of not starting random force-searches over silly reasons on code blue.

[420goslingboy69]

Equal force causes nothing to happen here.
The person who ahelped should be banned, if he wasn't an antag, that's ban-baiting as fuck.
He could've taken a loss at his egun being taken away (he also has no reason to have it), as the Chaplain has more authority then he does during a cult round, but he chose to shove his ego ahead.
Stupid ruling, even in the face of being told you're wrong.

Multiple reasons to search:
Red alert
Chaplain is literally the most important person during Cult
Balaclava (minor)
Insulated gloves (minor)

Also, choosing to not respond to people when they are actual making a point to point out things, shows your passive aggressive. People who want to break into things wear insulated gloves. Don't act like they don't.

[Krusvik]

The person the Chaplain killed was the Head of Personnel. The HoP had been implanted very early in the round. Not only does he start with a gun in his locker, but if the Chaplain wanted to get security weapons he should also get security huds so he doesn't kill his own team like this. The entire reason this was ahelped is the fact they were both loyalty implanted but the one who wanted to use lethals didn't take the proper precautions to be as informed as possible before removing someone from the round.

The captain can't lethal people in this manner either, and he's generally considered the most important person, with top authority and access. Snowflake roles don't give you the permission to break server rules. With a little more deductive reasoning and investigative initiative this could have been easily avoided, but what happened was a forced search that led to a killing of an implanted head of staff because he didn't bother to ask.

Muh valids,

[420goslingboy69]

>not one person mentions it was the HoP

That's a big part of this all.

Isn't this just stupid and both parties should just apologize, at that then?

[Krusvik]

Isn't this just stupid and both parties should just apologize, at that then?

This.

The ban was placed due to poor behavior, but I highly doubt either party is going to hold a grudge against each other. This is admin ruling because we don't like the jumping to valids meme and if encouraged it inevitably leads to more bannings as people take less and less time to grasp a situation, even when the information is there.

I see it's been shortened, and I see it's already expired, so no more harm can be done really.

[lzimann]

We are done here