[saegrimr] Adameltablawy - Banned for welderbombing

[adameltablawy]

Byond account and character name: Adameltablawy, John Sweeps (on occasion)
Banning admin: Saegrimr
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Permanent
Ban reason and length: Triggered someone else's welder tank, killing them, blaming it on them. This combined with your other notes and past idiocy trying to get other players banned leads me to believe you are a general detriment to the server.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2016-12-08, 03:14:42
Your side of the story: First off before anything this is a relevant ban appeal-

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8800

This is the person who was the victim of said welderbomb.

Anyway, onto main appeal

So basically I was a nonantag starting assistant and just wandered around for the most part.

Then I noticed an assistant with a lit welding tool dragging a welding tank towards the brig. I got the not very smart idea to welderbomb them before they could do anything. I chased them with a lit welder and they kept going, until they passed the chapel, at which point I caught up to them, welderbombed the tank, fixed the breach, and tossed them into space.

Granted, that was probably too much. I've been welderbombed a few too many times and so my general kneejerk reaction to attempted welderbombers is to try to stop or kill them.

Relevant logs are within the other appeal.

Also, there's a comment about me 'trying to get people banned.' I don't. I say I do in deadchat generally when people are salty just for the extra salt and general amusement, which yes, is probably a shit thing to do and I can absolutely stop annoying people in deadchat by doing that and otherwise acting like an asshole when dead, but I don't. I try to be a decent person overall aside from when dead, which i'd hope people have noticed prior. I also do ahelp when I see someone doing something generally poor form like bombing the ASIMOV AI for not opening a door or possible attempted tesla release, and smaller things like when I see someone complaining how they got griefed in deadchat and ahelp it for them when they say they didn't, but that's less about trying to get people banned and more about trying to get the guy some resolution.

Well, basically, later when I was getting ready to observe on sybil and just finished a cult round on bagil, I suddenly got banned by saeg. I was confused at first and messaged duncdar to figure out why I was banned/if it was a mistake, and upon finding out it wasn't a misdirected ban I came here.
Why you think you should be unbanned:

Well, i'd hope i'm not a detriment to the server. I try to be generally polite in OOC with some bare, salty exceptions and I try to help out around the station when I don't observe or ghost, and I'd hope me ahelping does something to get things resolved.

More to the point I also need to point out I wasn't just welderbombing and blaming it on a guy-I saw a guy trying to welderbomb since they were dragging a fuel tank with a lit welder towards the brig, and killed them for it, patched up the hull and went back to buisness. When the clown was attacking me and trying to kill me for it, I yelled what was happening at him and grabbed him, but otherwise didn't attempt to attack him or injure him, because I knew it was a misunderstanding. If I was just outright greytiding, I probably would have tried to kill the clown.

Granted, I'd have to say that justifying 'look at what I didn't do see how not shit I am' is not a good way to describe things or support myself, but i'd hope that that combined with some context of the situation and such would help clarify things.

As for notes, I have read through mine (the ones that are visible to me anyway) and the list is fairly short, mostly consisting of my horrible chemistry fuckups (at which point I just decided to stop playing chemist if I could since I kept incinerating the entire medbay trying to make grenades for sec) and an accidental IC in OOC, plus one relevant note for saying I tried to get people banned and spam ahelped, which was as I stated in deadchat and ooc around the time it was applied generally just said to irritate people who were getting very angry about revs murderboning/not murderboning.

Also, I wasn't contacted at all during or before the ban to explain myself, hence the necessity of the appeal. If I had got the chance I would have explained myself.

And yes, I can see now-with context of the situation-that pre-emptively welderbombing the assistant whom at the time I thought was trying to greytide with a welderbomb was wrong, and I won't do it or anything similar again.

I don't expect a full lift, since I did do something that was wrong, but I feel that an immediate permaban when as far as I am aware I haven't been banned before here with no contact is a little bit harsh and would appreciate a lowering. I won't do something similar to that again and if requested I can stop doing the whole 'haha make people upset by acting like a retard who's shouting no see i'm not actually retarded i was just pretending' shtick in deadchat. I'd hope there are several players who've at the least had positive encounters with me like kevinz who can vouch for my behavior on the whole being positive, not negative.

[Saegrimr]

DEAD: John Sweeps says, "i can also ahelp constantly about it until i get someone sympathetic"
DEAD: John Sweeps says, "so even if 90% of admins don't care if I get that 10% that do"
DEAD: John Sweeps says, "they get baned and I win"

Shit luck buddy, someone else got that 10%

[adameltablawy]

As I stated within the appeal (repeatedly) I literally said that to make deadchat generally upset because they were being very salty in the first place.

Allow me to copy paste-

plus one relevant note for saying I tried to get people banned and spam ahelped, which was as I stated in deadchat and ooc around the time it was applied generally just said to irritate people who were getting very angry about revs murderboning/not murderboning.

It was said to irritate deadchat, not as anything serious, and any admin on the team that has interacted with me and remembers me can hopefully confirm I don't spam ahelp 'I got killed by an antagonist'. Or ever ahelp being killed by an antagonist.

[D&B]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=8389

You actually do spam ahelps though.

[adameltablawy]

That particular situation was during an ongoing convo with Alphaa. At the time I was extremely salty and I already acknowledged I was stupid to do that. There wasn't much ahelp spam going on, moreso the initial ahelp where I whined, then there was a conversation, then they offered me a role, I wasn't comfortable with the role and jokingly suggested harassing you with stupid shit like 'i'd pay a fuckton if donatello died.', then I got made a ninja.

That was less ahelp spam and more initial whining, then conversation.

Granted, I was shitty during that and I did end up apologizing for it. Everyone has shit moments, and yes, my bitching was one of them.

[D&B]

Right and cute, but that just throws "I do it for the salt" out the window.

[adameltablawy]

Well, not necessarily.

Like I said, that wasn't spam ahelping for the most part, and the inital part was basically me venting and whining.

At the time, however, when I said that, I did do it because deadchat was upset.

Also, I think that's the only or one of the few times that's happened. The only other time I ever 'spam ahelped' along those lines was probably to Duncdar when I was basically just being frustrated with the round in general after I spawned in on extended as an engineer someone tried to release the tesla twice and I was then fed a pill to make me into a slime and then promptly killed by the virologist, after a convo I basically ahelped something along the lines of 'So if i'm a slime basically everyone can kill me for no reason because 'slimes are always hostile' etc.

Otherwise, there haven't been any instances of that (and honestly there are probably more than a few players who do whine in ahelps as well more than I do).

I ahelp a lot, either to make convo with admins out of boredom when they're not busy and have the time to respond or to report legitimate things. Sometimes, I get mad at something that happens to me and the above complaint happens, but that hasn't happened since or before, so i'd think a one off time of being a shitter isn't necessarily the worst thing.

And like I said, the 'I said X to make people salty' thing still remains true. People were upset about rev, I was trying to have a convo, people kept yelling or arguing, I got irritated and decided to amuse myself by spewing toxic bullshit.

You can ask any member of staff that remembers me-I'd HOPE that they'd say I don't spam ahelp for petty bullshit trying to get legitimate antagonists banned for nonsense or cycle through admins until I hit that 10%, and logs should support me.

(those logs will also probably have more of me being a shit in deadchat but it's usually overt trolling that i'd be suprised if anyone took seriously-like literally screaming 'I AM PERFECT AND EVERYONE IS SHIT'. I can stop if asked, it's just that up until being perma'd on the spot without being contacted for it nobody's ever said a word to me about it admin-wise and the staff and some of the players seemed to like me well enough when I wasn't being a shit so I assumed it was fine.)

[Saegrimr]

I'm not too fond of the "just a prank bro" part when it's proven more of reality than a joke.

However there's always the 10% of headmins who would be sympathetic and lift this. I wouldn't support it though.

[adameltablawy]

It hasn't proven more of a reality, is what i'm saying. I've said it, but never acted upon it.

I've also done nothing aside from talk up until now. I haven't done anything bannable or PM'able prior to this in recent memory, ahelp if i'm about to do something questionable for permission/explanation, et cetera.

This was the one time I didn't, and i've been permabanned for it without being contacted, which I find is a little harsh for a first offense of this nature under understandable context. I've also never attempted to get anyone banned undeservingly/banbaited as long as i've been on the server, and while I do ahelp if someone's breaking the rules severely-such as for example darkFNC ordering the execution of all hulks for no reason that one round-I don't chain ahelps whining about antagonists and get different admins to handle the same thing, etc.

I've said things purely to irritate deadchat, but -never acted on it.- Can't make that clear enough.

[adameltablawy]

I would hope that considering everything in total, i've done enough positive things that messing up once by welderbombing someone whom I thought was going to welderbomb the brig themselves could be written off as an 'adam you moron' and not doing it again more than a permanent ban from the server on a first offence.

I quite like /tg/. I'm on here a lot. I try to at least make friendly conversation with the admins (and occasionally chant cobby spiders in deadchat). I try to help new players and I try not to start massive OOC flamewars and I try to explain or understand why X is upset at me, if so, and get both of our sides of the story so there's no lasting salt between us.

Yes, I do like to stir up deadchat when people are already upset. That's a generally shit thing to do, and I can stop if it's proving a problem, but literally -nobody- has messaged me before asking me not to do that. As it turns out, I got a note from okand while not being aware of it at one point and if I had seen that note earlier I would have acknowledged it as something I needed to stop. I'm not saying it was okay, or that it was the admin team's fault for not telling me not to, but i'm saying that I honestly didn't think it was a problem considering deadchat and OOC are regularly filled with people chanting extremely irritating or rude things for laughs.

Yes, I get salty sometimes. No, I don't spam ahelp and cycle admins to get what I want-that was a one time comment said in deadchat during a crap rev round when people were hairtrigger upset and yelling at each other and me and eventually I got irritated with trying to talk over them and said something to piss them off.

I'd hope I do more good for the server or game than bad. I try to be funny, I don't greytide, I report issues or rulebreak when it occurs, I fix damage as an assistant and try to be helpful, I generally stick to doing my job and don't powergame how to do every job like some people, I follow space law when applicable as a sec officer and try to be understanding and not a brick wall, when people are arguing I try to figure out why and explain to them why X is considered a bad thing to do if they're actually in the wrong, et cetera.

I'd hope that being a decent person all-around would help my case, so that i'd not be permanently banned from a server I really like on a mostly clean slate in the many months i've been playing here because I said something in deadchat and never acted upon it.

I don't want to play the 'well look at all these other shitters go free' card, because it's not okay to declare yourself innocent because people being worse than you get off scott free with lesser punishments, but there have been people who do far worse on a more regular basis who get away with notes, where I get a permanent ban on a first offense without being aware it was an issue in the first place-or even contacted by saegrimr despite being online at the time of the ban so I could explain myself.

I don't know why the other guy got banned, and I absolutely didn't ahelp saying 'X welderbombed I killed him' or anything of the sort and logs support that. It wasn't my intention to get him banned at all-I thought I saw a guy trying to welderbomb, pre-emptively welderbombed him, and immediately fixed the damage the welderbomb caused.

I'm not asking to get off scott free, because I did do something wrong, and I acknowledge that, but I feel a permanent ban from the server is a tad harsh for an honest mistake.

[bandit]

I don't know whether this makes me the 10%, but IMO dragging around a lit welder and a welding tank as a graytider makes you basically valid, and most attempts to wriggle out of that would constitute banbaiting.

[Cobby]

I don't know whether this makes me the 10%, but IMO dragging around a lit welder and a welding tank as a graytider makes you basically valid, and most attempts to wriggle out of that would constitute banbaiting.

An assistant drags a welder with a welding tank, both visible, means it's ok for another assistant to welderbomb for them then space the other assistant?

I mean yeah I'd agree you can get the valids on, but I'm not exactly sure how one goes from "UH OH THEY'RE GONNA WELDERBOMB BETTER STOP THEM" to welderbombing for the individual, claiming it was the individual's fault, then spacing the individual because you welderbombed.

[adameltablawy]

I welderbombed THE individual, away from what I thought was their target based on direction (the brig), repaired the damage, and spaced them. Would it have made a difference in logs if I had said 'They were gonna welderbomb so I killed them' or 'They welderbombed so I killed them' because the end result would be the same.

I already acknowledged I was wrong to welderbomb them due to the station damage that I immediately repaired and because I made an assumption on it, but apparently if the assistant is actually valid to be killed in the first place then why does the method of how I did it matter, especially when I repaired the (minor) damage, which wasn't even a breach as far as I recall?

It's less 'welderbombing FOR the individual and claiming it was their fault then spacing them because I welderbombed' and more 'killed the individual who was going to welderbomb, saying they were going to welderbomb, and then fixing the damage.' The only part I missed there was 'saying they were going to welderbomb' because the clown was ACTIVELY TRYING TO PUSH ME OUT THE ESCAPE AIRLOCK at the time because they saw me space the guy and so I shouted 'THEY WELDERBOMBED' rather than 'THEY WERE GOING TO WELDERBOMB SO I CAUGHT THEM IN AN AREA WHERE IT WOULD DO MINIMAL DAMAGE AND BLEW UP THE TANK AND FIXED THE DAMAGE'.

[TheColdTurtle]

Matey there is a huge difference between 'they welderbombed' and 'he looked like he was gonna welder bomb' besides you were an assistant, and damage to the brig would be minimal. There is no reason to space the corpse or crit body either, since you could have just given it to medical and called sec over.

[adameltablawy]

Why would I give it to medical and call security when the easier and more permanent option to getting rid of a greytider is to kill them and destroy the body instead of expecting sec to have functioning braincells?

And if the damage to the brig would be minimal in a welderbomb, why does it matter that the hallway was damaged (and immediately repaired, by me.)

It was literally called valid to do to the guy above, so.

[Krusvik]

I hope this entire episode has proven a point to you. When you brag about banbaiting in dead chat, we're going to approach your appeal apprehensively. Especially when it's over something so brazen as setting off someone else's fuel tank on the assumption they were an antagonist and diverting the blame, however I acknowledge you have made no attempts to lead an investigation astray in admin PMs.

Several times you mention you're willing to improve your behavior. This is good. I'm willing to lift this ban in place of a 2 week probation period, starting the 12/9/2016 and ending 12/23/2016. During this time we will observe for repeat offenses and poor conduct: such as greytiding, antagonistic behaviour towards players/admins, and any of the aforementioned offenses denoted by this appeal.

Show us you're willing to improve your character and we'll simply note this incident took place and move on. Sound good?

[adameltablawy]

I'm fine with that and that's more lenient than I actually expected. Sorry about this.

[Okand37]

I'll go ahead and lock this and move it to resolved as it looks like an agreed conclusion was reached. Have fun! : )