[saegrimr] Fragnostic- Banana Peel for Plasma Stunprods

[Fragnostic]

Byond account and character name:
Fragnostic, Muhammed Al-Aljeerah

Banning admin:
saegrimr

Ban reason and length:
Made two plasma stunprods and left them in the halls intentionally. Ended up in two people getting killed and the redecoration of the library.

Time ban was placed (including time zone):
around 1 P.M. EST

Your side of the story:
I made two plasma stunprods, and left them in the hallway. Well, I did drop one in the hallway near engineering, but I also put one in the lobby near Cargo. About half an hour later, Saegrimr politely messages me asking me if I made the stunprods. I reply: "I did." But then I had to go do something very important and I was AFK for a good while. I appreciate that I wasn't banned so I could answer on the forums after leaving Saegrimr hanging. But then they picked up where we left off and I was ultimately banned in Saegrimr's judgement.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
I think I should be unbanned because stunprods are contraband. The people that got these stunprods and blew up, only blew up because they utilized contraband. Upon spotting these, they should have secured them without picking them and/or notified security personnel. They used them with the intent to stun someone and blew up. No one ushered the objects into their hands or encouraged them to use the stunprods. They made the conscious decision to use an improvised, prohibited device. They were not in control of what happened as a result of using them, but ultimately caused harm in their intent to debilitate someone. They should have accepted it was their fault, as well as anyone who was hurt as a result of it. They shouldn't have been trying to stun anyone, they aren't security. In this sense, I am assuming that the victim(who ever used the stunprod) was not an officer because no decent officer would utilize one over a proper stun baton. I feel that I should be unbanned under Rule 2:

Spoiler:

You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

True, I made the explosive stunprods. But no one forced them to use it, and I most certainly did not attack a player with the plasma stunprod to destroy them. They took a risk when they decided to inhibit another players mechanic and blew up. The explosion was not in their control, neither was the victim. As Rule 2 states, "Man up and deal with it." They were also not, "obviously griefed" because I did not use it on them nor told them it was safe to use, nor implied I gave it to them. And considering it is a prohibited item, they knowingly ignored IC rules.
I feel this is a similar scenario to a geneticist making monkey SE injectors and leaving them in the hallways, labeled "God mode". They aren't responsible for a player turning themselves or another into monkeys. Whoever used it is. I understand that Rule 1 supersedes Rule 2, but the responsibility for the results of whoever used them are physically not on me anymore. It's dependent on the user as well as the results. Anyway, I hope this gets handled fairly and please ask away if you need to better understand something.

[Saegrimr]

Sorry, no. You don't get to deflect blame by leaving disguised bombs in the hallways and expecting them not to be used. You even told me you intended them to be used.

[09:35:37]ADMIN: PM: Fragnostic -> Saegrimr: Well, sort of. I didn't hand them out, I just dropped them and left. I suppose it was to get a reaction, but I had no idea that it was not allowed.

[Fragnostic]

That makes sense. But I said that in hindsight. Anyway, the scenario in the OP with the geneticist...it's the same thing. They deliberately leave monkey SE injectors labeled
"god mode". in the hopes someone injects themselves. They're still protected by Rule 2, even if they admit their intentions because they didn't inject them. In the same way, I didn't use the stunprods on them. This isn't the first time I've done this, admittedly. But it is the first time I've been banned for it. I hate people who aren't sec acting like it, so I could care less if people who want to go vigilante blow themselves up in the process. I guess THAT is my intent. But I'm still not responsible for it. In my eyes, Rule 1 doesn't apply anymore. It's a Rule 0 issue now. You can go right on ahead and keep me banned because you feel like it.

[paprika]

True, I made the explosive stunprods. But no one forced them to use it

I feel like you were actually rehearsing this line in your head as you were making the stun prods

[QuartzCrystal]

True, I made the explosive stunprods. But no one forced them to use it

I feel like you were actually rehearsing this line in your head as you were making the stun prods

Quoting this as your post will inevitably be hidden by a forum mod. Because like, this.

Fragnostic, people get banned for what you did. You were a dick and acting antagonistic without being an antag. You're 100% responsible.

[Saegrimr]

If were gonna go dipping into rules here, the way you phrase rule 2 makes it sound like nobody is responsible for anything.
Get slipped and spaced by the clown while you were just chilling near escape? Wow too bad, man up and deal with it, that was out of your control.
Guy telesci-bombs the armory while everybody is fighting a blob in maint? That situation was out of your control. 2bad4u
However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

This isn't the first time I've done this, admittedly. But it is the first time I've been banned for it.

Not getting caught for it before doesn't make it okay.

I hate people who aren't sec acting like it, so I could care less if people who want to go vigilante blow themselves up in the process. I guess THAT is my intent. But I'm still not responsible for it. In my eyes, Rule 1 doesn't apply anymore. It's a Rule 0 issue now. You can go right on ahead and keep me banned because you feel like it.

The first part of this is definitely Rule 1. You're being a dick for the sake of being a dick, to random players no less. Its not even a specific grudge you have against someone.
If you really think this is entirely me pulling rule 0 out of my ass, then this probably is "in the best interest of the current round/server/playerbase at large."

[Fragnostic]

Fragnostic, people get banned for what you did. You were a dick and acting antagonistic without being an antag. You're 100% responsible.

Good point you made there. I'm now coming to understand. That's really what I was appealing, not some laughably short ban, and I understand that I got off easy.

When any admin PM's me or says anything on the forums, I try to respond with as much respect as I can find. So what I don't understand is why you're calling me a "dick". I don't understand why anyone would even stand being called that.

Do you know what an 'administrator' is supposed to do? Look over everyone and keep things in control and moderate/keep order. Calling me abrasive little things doesn't make me understand anything any better; it doesn't come off to me as more personal or more blunt/clear. It just tells me you think insults shame people into being better players. It'd very unprofessional and I think that's why there's uneasiness between the player base/administration. In the future I'd appreciate it if you'd not call me such things, since we have no relationship in where we've agreed such hints are appropriate.

If were gonna go dipping into rules here, the way you phrase rule 2 makes it sound like nobody is responsible for anything.
Get slipped and spaced by the clown while you were just chilling near escape? Wow too bad, man up and deal with it, that was out of your control.
Guy telesci-bombs the armory while everybody is fighting a blob in maint? That situation was out of your control. 2bad4u
However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

If you really think this is entirely me pulling rule 0 out of my ass, then this probably is "in the best interest of the current round/server/playerbase at large."

1. It's not he same thing. The situation you listed are not relative to the one I presented. Parallelism only works if they are essentially the same with different variables.
2. I don't think you're 'pulling Rule 0 out of your ass' I just wanted to know why. You responded very vaguely and wanted to know why. Not sure why you feel attacked and getting defensive, when I just want clarification. It's a day ban, that's not something I'd post in Banana Peels, but HBL said I should before using admin complaints. So here I am.

[Stickymayhem]

Rule 1 is literally "don't be a dick".

If you can't handle the rules being quoted at you because they have mean words in them on a 4chanserver full of abrasive fucks then you have to leave or, to quote rule 2, man up and deal with it.

[Fragnostic]

Rule 1 is literally "don't be a dick".

If you can't handle the rules being quoted at you because they have mean words in them on a 4chanserver full of abrasive fucks then you have to leave or, to quote rule 2, man up and deal with it.

Isn't that what I said? I quoted Rule 2. But that refers to situation IC not OOC. The people who died from using stubprods should face the consequences...and man up. These ARE in character rules, not rules for the forum. There's soemthing you clearly aren't understanding.

[Hornygranny]

You are responsible for the items you create, and what people do with them.

[Fragnostic]

Thanks. That's pretty much the answer I was looking for. Understood, I'll remember to keep this in mind 24/7 when I play.

[Pandarsenic]

More specifically, this was nonantag bombing, executed through accomplices who had no way to know their part.