coffeedragon16 - Jackrip - Wrongful note appeal

[jackrip]

BYOND account: jackrip
Character name: Hayden Stange
Ban type: Note
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: After using the CE's fireaxe for a good purpose, refused to give it back when asked. They then repeatedly shoved them, stealing their baton. Then followed the CE into their department, continuing to baton them. If you steal an item from someone, please don't continue stealing from them and, as you put it, "taunting" them over it. It's frustrating to deal with, and there's no good reason to do it when you don't actually need the items.
Time ban was placed: 2021-01-21 00:51:26
Server you were playing on when banned: Bagil
Round ID in which ban was placed:154671
Your side of the story:
Going to break this down line by line

After using the CE's fireaxe for a good purpose.

I'd like to give this situation some context. A ling was being murdered in central halls. Harold McKormack and Taro Martins (CE) were both there. We were killing the ling when Harold starts attacking Taro with a fireaxe while everyone is distracted. I take Harold's fireaxe and kill him with it, saving the CE. Just posting a few logs from that fight but there were a lot.

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[2021-01-21 00:24:35.829] ATTACK: ShinyReptar343/(Harold McKormack) has attacked Serxule/(Taro Martins) with fire axe (Wielded) (INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 71.3)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (138,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:24:49.770] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has attacked ShinyReptar343/(Harold McKormack) with fire axe (Wielded) (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -198.5)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (139,130,4))

refused to give it back when asked

After saving the CE I bounced to medbay with the axe to heal up. Taro finds me in medbay and asks for it back and I, not even knowing it was theirs to begin with and having just saved their life, say no.

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[2021-01-21 00:26:13.378] SAY: 00:26:13.378] SAY: Serxule/(Taro Martins) "gimme my fireaxe back" (Medbay Lobby (141,123,4))
[2021-01-21 00:26:17.231] SAY: 00:26:17.231] SAY: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) "no its mine now" (Medical (145,120,4))

They then repeatedly shoved them, stealing their baton.

Taro immediately attacked me with their baton, so I leg sweeped them, took the baton and the axe and tried to run off, having to leg sweep them again to get away

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[2021-01-21 00:26:21.182] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has stunned Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 68)  (Medbay Aft (151,118,4))
[2021-01-21 00:26:21.433] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has leg sweeped Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 95.6)  (Medbay Aft (151,117,4))
[2021-01-21 00:26:32.188] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 68)  (Medical (148,120,4))
[2021-01-21 00:26:35.014] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 68)  (Medbay Lobby (142,124,4))
[2021-01-21 00:26:35.903] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has leg sweeped Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 95.6)  (Medbay Lobby (143,125,4))
[2021-01-21 00:26:48.503] SAY: 00:26:48.503] SAY: Serxule/(Taro Martins) "uh ohhhhh haydennnn im gonna cut off your fucking arms" (Medbay Lobby (140,126,4))

Then followed the CE into their department, continuing to baton them.

After the medbay attack Taro followed me all over the station as I ran away. I try to explain running that she is actively trying to attack me after I save her life, but she keeps rushing me so I baton her ONCE to try and get some distance. This is the only time I batonned taro the entire game.

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[2021-01-21 00:27:02.084] SAY: 00:27:02.084] SAY: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) "i saved" (Central Primary Hallway (130,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:27:03.224] SAY: 00:27:03.224] SAY: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) "your life" (Central Primary Hallway (130,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:27:06.467] SAY: 00:27:06.467] SAY: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) "and this is how" (Central Primary Hallway (130,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:27:07.920] SAY: 00:27:07.920] SAY: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) "you repay me" (Central Primary Hallway (130,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:27:16.884] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has stunned Serxule/(Taro Martins) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 95.6)  (Central Primary Hallway (131,128,4))

Taro then proceeds to catch up to me and push me over, taking back the fireaxe. I still had their baton.

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[2021-01-21 00:28:11.940] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (133,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:14.592] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has kicks Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (133,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:14.593] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (133,129,4))

At this point I wanted to "taunt" them a bit without doing too much, purely because of the level of effort they had put into chasing me around the station after I saved their life. I follow them to engi and then run around them in circles repeatedly clicking (opening closing) the baton to make a stupid noise. They shove me, and in an attempt to shove back I do accidentally krav punch them once as I had the gloves on. I took them off immediately afterwards.

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[2021-01-21 00:29:00.340] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (119,86,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:01.602] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (119,88,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:03.071] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has punched nonlethally Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (118,88,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:03.216] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,87,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:05.012] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,86,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:07.478] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,89,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:07.803] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (118,86,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:08.609] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,88,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:08.907] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (118,87,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:09.769] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,89,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:09.970] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (118,88,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:10.871] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,89,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:11.139] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (118,87,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:12.307] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has shoved Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) (NEWHP: 73.8)  (Engineering Foyer (118,87,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:13.080] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (118,86,4)) POG
[2021-01-21 00:29:14.959] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has kicks Serxule/(Taro Martins) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (117,85,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:14.960] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Engineering Foyer (117,85,4))

I manage to push them over, steal the axe, and escape out of the open engi door.

After this, Taro chased me down again and beat me into crit

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[2021-01-21 00:29:41.815] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has attacked Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with jaws of life (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 58.8)  (Teleporter Room (125,117,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:44.385] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Teleporter Room (125,118,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:45.442] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has kicks Serxule/(Taro Martins) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Teleporter Room (125,118,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:45.443] ATTACK: Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) has shoved Serxule/(Taro Martins) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 94.6)  (Teleporter Room (125,118,4))
[2021-01-21 00:29:59.290] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has attacked Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with jaws of life (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 43.8)  (Bridge (107,135,4))
[2021-01-21 00:30:01.866] ATTACK: Serxule/(Taro Martins) has stunned Jackrip/(Hayden Stange) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 43.8)  (Bridge (106,134,4))

If you steal an item from someone, please don't continue stealing from them and, as you put it, "taunting" them over it. It's frustrating to deal with, and there's no good reason to do it when you don't actually need the items.

The axe was in the would-be killer's hands from the moment I saw it. I never once saw Taro with the axe and had no idea it was theirs till they came to take it from me in medbay. I don't know how the other guy got it, but I had no evidence to suggest they took it from atmos or the bridge vs someone else.

Not to mention I saved their life with the very axe I was holding, I felt I had no obligation to give it back. If I took a mosin from a murderer and a cargo tech came up to me and told me to give it back, I wouldn't.

The only taunting I did was the repeated clicking of the telebaton while running around them in circles, and I did this because of how ridiculous the whole situation had been. Clearly the CE did not need the fireaxe if they were just going to chase me around all shift. The only thing they used it for after I died was to greytide into departments and smash shit in the halls (according to logs).

And that doesn't even go into the validity of this note. Why was it ever given to me? This was completely handled IC, the CE had no lasting damage done to them, and I didn't do ANY of the things stated in the note. I never "repeatedly shoved them, stealing their baton", or "followed the CE into their department, continuing to baton them". That entire round minus me going into engi and clicking the baton repeatedly can be summed up as taro chasing me around after I saved them.

Why you think you should be unbanned: The note is wrong and frankly completely unwarranted. I personally think coffee was just gunning for me as they boinked me earlier in the round and were totally wrong, so they had to make it up somehow. Could be completely off base, but you can view the logs for both of them here:
https://sb.atlantaned.space/ticket/c33022516ff40af9
https://sb.atlantaned.space/ticket/09134a26bdd4c9ef

[CoffeeDragon16]

First thing, in regards to that first ahelp: I misunderstood a log posted in asay, and should have explained that in the first ticket. I understand that probably looked frustrating without the context, and I apologize for not giving you that context. However, this part was quite harmless.

Now that's out of the way, to the main ticket: That round, I was observing the CE at the time, so I saw most of this first-hand. I think taking the CE's axe was perfectly fine and IC, (I think you saving the CE was quite nice) and to an extent IC with the baton, but the OOC issue came from after there to me. With some others, this might be fine and dandy, just some good ol' tiding. The thing for me there is you have two previous notes in the past year for overescalating and harassing CEs. I think that the pattern shown is worth noting down. I would not have done so if you didn't have those notes.

So, after you stole their baton, you followed them to engineering, and taunted them. I consider this provoking further fights without reason. I found this behavior mirrored your past note dealing with CEs. You did say that they were chasing you in the ticket, when it appears you were following them into engineering. It then turned into a shoving match. This appeared to continue until you teleported onto bridge and got killed, as you were outnumbered and trespassing.

Like I said, this would have not been an issue without the two prior notes for giving CEs trouble. When the situation is put in the context of the two earlier notes, I believed this crossed the line into unreasonable grief. Even if you believed the axe was yours, I do not believe you should be taunting someone with their items and following them into their department. While it was handled IC, I did take issue with said behavior before you died, and I don't believe that it should have been let go without an ahelp considering prior behavior. I have noticed in past tickets as of late, people who habitually line toe prior handlings tend to get a lot of one-on-one 'lets cut down on this' talks with no actual noting. This tends to allow people to repeat rule breaking behavior with little recording of it.

Logs for reference: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... attack.txt https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... 1/game.txt

[jackrip]

First thing, in regards to that first ahelp: I misunderstood a log posted in asay, and should have explained that in the first ticket. I understand that probably looked frustrating without the context, and I apologize for not giving you that context. However, this part was quite harmless.

Yep, quite harmless, but it does put the other note in an interesting light that suggests you have ill intentions.

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 I think taking the CE's axe was perfectly fine and IC, (I think you saving the CE was quite nice) and to an extent IC with the baton

The single baton strike while they were chasing me in the halls to get some distance. Which they did for a solid 90% of my shift. Which you saw obviously.

With some others, this might be fine and dandy, just some good ol' tiding

I fail to see how I did any tiding at all. The only thing that could be considered bad would be running into engi, getting pushed by the CE, then pushing them down and taking the axe.

The thing for me there is you have two previous notes in the past year for overescalating and harassing CEs

I have one note for attacking a CE 4 months ago, not two. If you are implying I have some grudge against CE's then I dunno what to tell you besides how silly that is. There is some nuance not explained in the note but I'll leave it at saying I fully admit I screwed up there and it never should have happened. I told the admin who gave me it how much I regretted it at the time, and still do.

The note, for transparency:

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As a nonantag engineer broke into the CE's office at the start of the shift repeatedly while instigating a needless conflict to provoke the CE. After bullying the CE for a sizable amount of time, they finally fought back to some extent at a quarter hp, and that escalated to player strangling them into crit and full stripping them.

I think that the pattern shown is worth noting down. I would not have done so if you didn't have those notes.

You are clearly falsifying a pattern to strengthen your agenda to get rid of me. You lied about how many notes I have for CE abuse, you lied about how many times I used the baton against the CE, you lied about me "repeatedly shoving them to steal their baton", you lied on every single piece of this note. You have nothing but ill intentions against me and this has been proven by you reaching to create a story where there isn't one.

So, after you stole their baton

The baton they used to attack me without warning after I just saved their life. The baton I took immediately after they struck me. The baton I then ran away with and only used once in self defense.

you followed them to engineering, and taunted them

Are we going to forget they followed me the entire shift constantly harassing me for their damned axe? I didn't start this, I didn't "steal their axe" because I never even saw them with it. I only saw the murderer with it. They took it too far. At that point I wanted to show them how silly all of this had become.

I consider this provoking further fights without reason

Pushing them over in engineering is definitely the "worst" thing in this incident. But at that point they had provoked me the entire shift, and I still had their baton which they needed far more than their axe. This is why I went into engi and clicked it a bunch, to show them it was all for nothing and that I still had their more useful tool. To show them how silly all of that was. Of course they immediately pushed me instead of just going further into engi (this happened in engi lobby with a bolted open door).

I found this behavior mirrored your past note dealing with CEs

Again, I have one note dealing with CEs. You are trying to create a pattern where there isn't one. All of this is baseless, I do not have some kind of grudge against CE's, I have hundreds of hours of engi under my belt and am grateful for the many things CEs have taught me.

You did say that they were chasing you in the ticket, when it appears you were following them into engineering

....
Didn't you just say you were observing us the whole round? So you saw them chase me the whole round then, yes? The only time they stopped was when they finally pushed me over and stole the axe back, then ran to engi lobby.
If you are going to claim that I was actually chasing them the whole round I encourage you to reflect on my previous post as there is plenty of evidence that they were chasing me. Look at where different logs happened (med aft -> med -> med lobby -> central halls), me using short broken speech because I'm trying to talk in-between running away to de-escalate the situation, their repeated first attacks against me, etc. More lies to create a false narrative.

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It then turned into a shoving match. This appeared to continue until you teleported onto bridge and got killed, as you were outnumbered and trespassing.

Shoving match occurred in engi which they completely started. After I got the axe back I immediately ran away. They chased after me breaking tiles trying to hit me with their jaws of life. I ran into teleporter and tried to push them away to keep myself from getting murdered, but they hit me a few times. I then randomly jumped through the teleporter which led me to bridge. They followed and finished me off. The "Shoving match" only happened in engi, everything after that was me defending my life.

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Like I said, this would have not been an issue without the two prior notes for giving CEs trouble

Blatant lie

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When the situation is put in the context of the two earlier notes, I believed this crossed the line into unreasonable grief.

OK but there is only one other note about me harassing CE's and it's from 4 months back. It is also completely unrelated to this situation. In that note I clearly started the fight and took it too far. In this note I save someone's life and have to spend the entire round running away from them. The fact that you are conflating these is further evidence you have ill intentions towards me. Your entire case here is based off something that isn't even true.

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Even if you believed the axe was yours, I do not believe you should be taunting someone with their items and following them into their department.

As I explained above, there was pretty good reasoning for this.

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While it was handled IC, I did take issue with said behavior before you died, and I don't believe that it should have been let go without an ahelp considering prior behavior.

Honestly even if I did have two notes, which I do NOT, this is such a minute and silly thing to note over I really think it just paints you in a bad light. Seeing as how I don't have a single note that is relevant to what happened here, it paints your decision making and investigative work in a REALLY bad light.

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I have noticed in past tickets as of late, people who habitually line toe prior handlings tend to get a lot of one-on-one 'lets cut down on this' talks with no actual noting. This tends to allow people to repeat rule breaking behavior with little recording of it.

Lol, this is rich coming from you. How many times have I ahelped about you over escalating, can we see your notes?

Please enjoy this well crafted me me I made for your viewing pleasure

[CoffeeDragon16]

"Banned from the server for 1440 minutes - Tailgated the CE into Xenobiology to look at a Xeno egg, was asked to leave and did not, proceeded to crit two people in the ensuing attempt to remove him."

This was the other note I mentioned. I believe the behavior is more towards command staff at all, as you also have a note for breaking into captain's office roundstart and then harassing command.

I fail to see how I did any tiding at all.

The trespassing into bridge and engineering, and then harassing the CE is what I meant there.

The baton they used to attack me without warning after I just saved their life.

They gave you a warning.

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[2021-01-21 00:26:13.378] SAY: 00:26:13.378] SAY: Serxule/(Taro Martins) "gimme my fireaxe back" (Medbay Lobby (141,123,4))

Shoving match occurred in engi which they completely started.

I feel as if that was on you, as you were trespassing in Engineering. I also can't find anything indicating you asked for it back. Did you have a solid reason you wanted it?

[jackrip]

"Banned from the server for 1440 minutes - Tailgated the CE into Xenobiology to look at a Xeno egg, was asked to leave and did not, proceeded to crit two people in the ensuing attempt to remove him."

Another completely unrelated and misconstrued note being displayed as evidence. This was when the scientists were completely ignoring a xeno egg, the CE and I wanted to secure it, so we worked together as a TEAM to get into xenobio. There was literally nothing done to the CE that round, but feel free to check the logs yourself.

The trespassing into bridge

Randomly jumping through a teleporter while getting beat to death you mean?

and engineering, and then harassing the CE is what I meant there.

Again, CE harassed me the entire shift. None of this was unprovoked.

They gave you a warning.

This is literally the only thing they said to me, there was zero explanation that the bad guy stole their axe or thanks for saving them. Amazing how you consider that a warning

I feel as if that was on you, as you were trespassing in Engineering. I also can't find anything indicating you asked for it back. Did you have a solid reason you wanted it?

I didn't go into there to steal the fireaxe back. Read above.

[CoffeeDragon16]

This was when the scientists were completely ignoring a xeno egg, the CE and I wanted to secure it, so we worked together as a TEAM to get into xenobio. There was literally nothing done to the CE that round, but feel free to check the logs yourself.

Ah, I misunderstood what it meant then. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I feel my point about the other note involving the captain still stands though.

Again, CE harassed me the entire shift. None of this was unprovoked.

Yes, after you refused to return a valuable item from them, and stole more from them when they asked for it back, and then followed them taunting them.

Not to mention I saved their life with the very axe I was holding, I felt I had no obligation to give it back. If I took a mosin from a murderer and a cargo tech came up to me and told me to give it back, I wouldn't... clearly the CE did not need the fireaxe if they were just going to chase me around all shift

I feel like this implies you wanted it back, and regardless you were still needlessly harassing them.

Shoving match occurred in engi which they completely started. After I got the axe back I immediately ran away.

If that wasn't why you were there, then why did you steal the axe again at all?

[jackrip]

Oh wow I completely missed your comment about the captain note lmao

This was the other note I mentioned. I believe the behavior is more towards command staff at all, as you also have a note for breaking into captain's office roundstart and then harassing command.

That is also a completely wrong statement, which is amazing because YOU gave me this note. I ran up to the captain in the halls and stun batonned him and took his id. Read the logs to confirm. This was the first time I had stolen AA in MONTHS. This also had nothing to do with the captain being "command" but rather that I was being a gamer that round. Before the round started I said in OOC "I'm going to gamer so hard this round" and then stole the aa from cap within 5 minutes of round start. I purely did this to obtain the yellow card and didn't harass the captain any more after that. This is completely unrelated to the CE issue and I would like to say that I do not do this regularly in any fashion and it was a one time "lets get crazy" round.

How many times are you going to pull false clause. None of these things are related. You have ignored everything I have said, and you have lied about all the important details in your case. If you were a player you would have been banned for lying. You must be limber as hell with all this stretching.

This speaks volumes about your intentions, your investigative abilities as an admin, and your complete lack of self reflection.

I can see this is going nowhere and would love to get someone else involved.

[CoffeeDragon16]

Talked to domi about it, and we agree the note should be reworded. I think I should have geared it more towards the pattern of harassing people for invalid reasons.
"After taking an item from a head, continued stealing from them and harassing them after they wanted their item back as a non-antag. Has shown a consistent pattern of giving command trouble as a non-antag."

[MrAlphonzo]

I can see this is going nowhere and would love to get someone else involved.

Hi, I'm someone else.

This was the first time I had stolen AA in MONTHS. This also had nothing to do with the captain being "command" but rather that I was being a gamer that round. Before the round started I said in OOC "I'm going to gamer so hard this round" and then stole the aa from cap within 5 minutes of round start. I purely did this to obtain the yellow card and didn't harass the captain any more after that.

Knowingly waiting an arbitrary amount of time since you were last reprimanded for doing something, only to do it again, does not justify your actions. This is the pattern many players who were long a thorn in our side take and if anything, you are just justifying your behavior being scrutinized on a more detailed level.

It is up to administrators to decide what is note worthy and what is not, and if your conduct as a player is consistently trending downwards, if gameadmins were not putting you under greater scrutiny then they would not be doing their job correctly.

Regardless of semantics, you have a history of harassing command staff which falls under the umbrella of greytiding, and going out of your way to needlessly harass the chief engineer falls under that umbrella.

There is nothing that goes against precedent in this note. I'll leave you with a quote from the admin who trained me.

Notes can be for completely IC things because repeated IC interactions can be an OOC offense. Notes are not equivalent to a ban/kick. They are a log of an interaction an admin thinks is worth monitoring (hence why you CANNOT appeal them unless they are not true or unfairly mischaractering the situation)

[jackrip]

Hi, someone else.

Knowingly waiting an arbitrary amount of time since you were last reprimanded for doing something, only to do it again, does not justify your actions. This is the pattern many players who were long a thorn in our side take and if anything, you are just justifying your behavior being scrutinized on a more detailed level.

I was never trying to justify my action, and I realize that what I did was frowned upon, I was purely wanting to show that it was not me grudging heads or trying to solely attack heads but rather something completely unrelated - me wanting to get a speedrun record for stealing aa. Not justifying anything, just showing they are unrelated (which coffee is assuring they are).

Regardless of semantics, you have a history of harassing command staff which falls under the umbrella of greytiding, and going out of your way to needlessly harass the chief engineer falls under that umbrella.

The only "history" I have of going out of my way to harass heads specifically would be that single CE note I have. And that had absolutely nothing to do with the CE being a head. I have already explained what I think of heads and how they have helped me learn and guided me with teaching. I have no qualms nor ill will against them and do not attack them any more than other players.

I would also like to state that I don't think anything about this was needless. I was running from the ce the vast majority of the shift. At this point they had already harassed me repeatedly. I was pretty well within my escalation rights to run into their department clicking their baton to make a funny noise repeatedly. They had done so much to me already it's not like this was unprovoked.

you CANNOT appeal them unless they are not true or unfairly mischaractering the situation

The note was wrong and almost everything coffee has used as proof that it's correct has been a lie. I have refuted so much of what they said, I would love to see something done about the complete lack of correct investigation on their part and the many lies stated in this thread

"After taking an item from a head, continued stealing from them and harassing them after they wanted their item back as a non-antag. Has shown a consistent pattern of giving command trouble as a non-antag."

The only thing I "stole" was the fireaxe in engi. The CE attacked me with the baton unprovoked, I was simply taking away the tool they were using to attack me. They harassed me for my entire shift. Me running around them in circles was not unprovoked. I do not single out command and give them trouble, this had nothing to do with them being a head.

I strongly think this note should be cast out entirely and the nonsense that it was changed to is still completely incorrect. I see this only as yet another attempt by coffee to add another thing to my notes so they can ban me as soon as they have the chance.

[jackrip]

When I said I would like someone else to review I was meaning a headmin if that is alright.

To sum this issue up, I believe this note was just Coffee fishing for anything to get me on. It was a simple IC issue, and the only one harmed or truly impacted was me. I would like to see this note removed entirely.

[Coconutwarrior97]

Apologies for the delay.

We believe this note focuses too much on the relevance of the other individual being a head of staff. The crux of the issue with the situation seems more to us to be generally pushing things a bit too far and acting like a dick, rather than any "grudge" or the like against heads. This is indicative to us in part by the two notes mentioned in this thread,

Spoiler:

As non-antagonist, tided AA roundstart and harassed command for little reason. While not too bad on its own, this happens often and can be round-ruining for others.

As a nonantag engineer broke into the CE's office at the start of the shift repeatedly while instigating a needless conflict to provoke the CE. After bullying the CE for a sizable amount of time, they finally fought back to some extent at a quarter hp, and that escalated to player strangling them into crit and full stripping them. Do not spend your time antagonizing people until they finally fight you just to further bully them.

This situation was largely IC, but IC does not mean that someone has an excuse to continue being a dick round after round forever. As such we've asked coffee to reword the note to focus less on heads of staff and moreso on rule 1 line toeing:

Saved the CE using the CE's fireaxe, then claimed it as their own. The CE disagreed and a conflict ensued wherein the CE retreived their axe but lost their baton. They broke into the CE's department, taunted them, which prompted the CE to shove them, then stole the CE's fireaxe at which point the CE chased and crit them. Though all in all this was largely an IC situation, IC does not mean you can continue to act like a dick to people round after round. Which given previous notes seems to be the case. In the future take this kind of behavior back a bit.

Also for transperancy sake we wanted to bring up what led to the bwoink,

Spoiler:

[2021-01-21 00:27:48.710] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jaredfogle/(Mothblocks) "were you watching coffee" (Chapel (183,143,4))
[2021-01-21 00:27:56.505] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CoffeeDragon16/(Mythmi Aguilar) "watching what in particular
[2021-01-21 00:28:06.064] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jaredfogle/(Mothblocks) "korol disarm krav maga the ce and take their shit?"
[2021-01-21 00:28:11.031] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CoffeeDragon16/(Mythmi Aguilar) "yeah" (Starboard Primary Hallway (133,129,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:17.875] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CoffeeDragon16/(Mythmi Aguilar) "i think theres a misunderstanding but"
[2021-01-21 00:28:24.156] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CoffeeDragon16/(Mythmi Aguilar) "ill ahelp korol if he escalates against the ce again" (Central Primary Hallway (129,118,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:30.150] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CoffeeDragon16/(Mythmi Aguilar) "he seems like hes jusut being a dick" (Central Primary Hallway (111,111,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:35.121] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jaredfogle/(Mothblocks) "like every round yeah" (Aft Primary Hallway (113,88,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:46.563] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CoffeeDragon16/(Mythmi Aguilar) "do you wanna take it because ill probably get called biased" (Engineering Foyer (118,87,4))
[2021-01-21 00:28:49.327] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jaredfogle/(Mothblocks) "no"
[2021-01-21 00:28:56.869] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jaredfogle/(Mothblocks) "i cant stand talking to people like this" (Engineering Foyer (119,85,4))

The above are raw logs from round 154671. So I can't link anything here sadly.

Headmin votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.