[DISCORD] Blutarch Mann - Banned me for questioning him after he opened a revert of my PR

[iamgoofball]

Discord username: Blutarch Mann#1457
Commonly used names: N/A
Banning admin: MrStonedOne
Ban reason: Can't see it, audit log was disabled, likely via the timeout function.

Time ban was placed: Sometime around or before 12 PM PST, 2/9/2022, can't check the audit log while timed out.
Your side of the story: MSO opened a revert of my hooch nerf PR. He seems to be taking issue with the greytide metabolism trait remaining. I don't really care if the trait remains or not, I only removed it because it was dead code and was conditional for the PR being merged as per maintainer instructions. When elaborating to MSO that he should make a PR to re-add the trait that he wants, I received a 1 week timeout. He also threatened to ban a maintainer because he didn't like their opinion on something.
We then had this conversation in DMs:




Why you think you should be unbanned:
So, to start with, he opened a PR that was a revert of my PR.
He titled this PR "Revert "Hooch no longer heals assistants."".
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/64774

This was a revert of a PR I made, titled "Hooch no longer heals assistants."
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/64693

I, foolishly, assumed that MSO was removing the hooch nerf, despite the OP, and as such tried to argue with him about it on the discord. He then weekbanned me from the discord via the timeout feature. He cited the dogpiling rule that he put in place last time he got told he was wrong by a large amount of the developers here so that he could ban people who disagreed with him.
He also banned a maintainer, allegedly. I can't view the audit log to verify so I'm taking this post at face value:


I believe this conversation shouldn't have occured in the coding general chat and should have occured in #maintainerbus, the channel MSO created.

I asked MSO for a statement on the matter and they had this to say:


There is a strong case to be made that MSO engaged in banbait by having this conversation in a public space, directly reverting my PR, then banning me when I tried to engage him in a discussion about my PR that he's reverting. I was concerned he was reverting the hooch nerf because both the code in his PR said he was reverting the hooch nerf, and he titled the PR "Revert "Hooch no longer heals assistants."". He tempbanned me for a week for believing this and trying to have a discussion with him in the public coding channel.

MSO had full access to #maintainerbus and as I stated in the request for comment re: using that channel, had plenty of opportunities to move the conversation there. However, they did not do so, and they dodged the question when I asked them to not revert the hooch nerf and just re-add the trait.

To summarize, MSO opened a revert of my PR, then gave me a ban for "dogpiling" because I was involved in the conversation revolving around my pull request that he was reverting.

I believe I should be unbanned because I was trying to good faith discuss my PR being reverted with the contributor who was trying to revert my PR, only to find out the revert was a bad faith revert that had nothing to do with the actual contents of the PR and was, by all accounts, just trying to prove some weird point to win an epic internet argument.


MSO was at best banning me in the heat of the moment because I didn't have the high IQ needed to see his master plan, and at worst banbaiting me by reverting my PR so that I would try to talk to him about the revert of my PR so he could ban me for dogpiling, despite it being my PR that he was reverting.

[MrStonedOne]

I'll provide a full response breaking this whole saga down later tonight, but for now:

He cited the dogpiling rule that he put in place last time he got told he was wrong by a large amount of the developers here so that he could ban people who disagreed with him.

The dogpiling rule existed since near the start of the discord server, i re-added it after it got left behind by a rewrite of the rules when it was made clear it was still needed.

[iamgoofball]

I'll provide a full response breaking this whole saga down later tonight, but for now:

He cited the dogpiling rule that he put in place last time he got told he was wrong by a large amount of the developers here so that he could ban people who disagreed with him.

The dogpiling rule existed since near the start of the discord server, i re-added it after it got left behind by a rewrite of the rules when it was made clear it was still needed.

Well, I arrived late to the whole discord thing anyways so I'll cede that point. I stuck with the IRC until it truly died like a boomer.

[Vekter]

It's important to note that 1) this isn't a ban, it's a time-out which lasts until 2/15, and 2) time-outs (for whatever reason) don't require a reason like bans do, so there's not actually one. MSO should provide a time-out reason in this case.

[MrStonedOne]

Note, replies don't copypaste. I added it in in the few spots it was relevant.

... Github bot announces my revert pr being opened.
[11:13 AM] Rohesie: MSO PR
[11:13 AM] Rohesie: heck
[11:13 AM] le baguette: The MAN UPSTAIRS DISSENTS
[11:14 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: god
[11:14 AM] Rohesie: the headcoder
[11:14 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: sorry rohesie
[11:14 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: @MrStonedOne the greytide metabolism trait existed exclusively for hooch
[11:14 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: hooch no longer uses it, so the trait has no reason to exist
[11:15 AM] Rohesie: that, and we don't want any other Assistant-exclusive game advantages

you two react, 25 minutes later i see the pings.

[11:40 AM] MrStonedOne: >[11:15 AM] Rohesie: that, and we don't want any other Assistant-exclusive game advantages
[11:40 AM] MrStonedOne: how does not wanting assistant-exclusive game advantages relate to leaving the trait behind?

Here I see Rohseie's non-sequitur and start trying to figure out the logic behind it.

[11:40 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: what do you want the trait to remain behind for

Here you start trying to redirect the convo away from that.

[11:41 AM] Lag (isnt) Gone: the trait doesnt do anything without hooch

Here kyler starts doing the same thing.

[11:41 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: what is the reason for GREYTIDE_METABOLISM staying in the code

Here you repeat the same statement needlessly. We are not talking about rather or not a trait is unused. In fact we aren't even talking at all, i'm talking to rohesie, not you.

[11:40 AM] MrStonedOne: >[11:15 AM] Rohesie: that, and we don't want any other Assistant-exclusive game advantages
[11:41 AM] MrStonedOne: how does not wanting assistant-exclusive game advantages relate to leaving the trait behind?

I'm still interested in an answer to my question, so i repeat it.

[11:41 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: once again
[11:41 AM] <@&244920965484642304>: mso pls
[11:41 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: what is the reason for GREYTIDE_METABOLISM staying in the code
[11:41 AM] MrStonedOne: i don't, i want an answer to the question i just asked
[11:41 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: then why are you making a PR to undo the hooch nerf

Here you keep trying to drag my convo with Rohesie back over to you. We are not talking about rather or not a trait is unused. In fact we aren't even talking at all, i'm talking to rohesie, not you.

[11:41 AM] MrStonedOne: how does not wanting assistant-exclusive game advantages relate to leaving the trait behind?
[11:42 AM] MrStonedOne: well get to that, but not until i get an answer to the question i just asked

I spell it out, i'm trying to get a specific question answered.

[11:42 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: you're not re-adding the hooch healing
[11:42 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: i dont care how many terry children whined in your DMs

This is you continuing to try to steer the convo back to something you can grandstand over. We aren't talking about hooch, In fact we aren't even talking at all, i'm talking to rohesie, not you.

[11:42 AM] Rohesie: The trait is Assistant-exclusive, it was only used for this effect? So it's removed because it has no effects, and I don't want other benefits to be added?
What is the issue here?

I finally get an answer, but its not an answer, they kept going back to the pr, likely because you kept leading them with your grandstanding and convo steering.

[11:42 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: MSO just make a PR that re-adds the trait but doesn't re-add the hooch healing

More offtopic nonsense.

[11:42 AM] MrStonedOne: that last bit of text is the issue
[11:43 AM] MrStonedOne: >and I don't want other benefits to be added?
[11:43 AM] MrStonedOne: how does this relate
[11:43 AM] MrStonedOne: to the trait existing

I specify to rohesie that i don't understand how a removing a trait that (now) does nothing relates to removing assistant benefits.

This is that non-sequitur i've been talking about.

[11:43 AM] Lag (isnt) Gone: in its current form it doesnt at all since the trait doesnt do anything without hooch

Kyler starts to figure out what i'm referring to, but they don't clue in that i'm only worried about the non-sequitur.

[11:43 AM] MrStonedOne: please stop reading until my questions or what you think my intentions are

until was suppose to be into. Here was the start of me expressing my frustration with everybody trying to bring this back to the pr or rather or not the trait should exist.

[11:43 AM] AnturK: shitposting

Antur has started shitposting. "I'm so meta, even this acronym"

[11:43 AM] MrStonedOne: and stop answering questions i asked somebody else

This one was to you goof.

[11:44 AM] Rohesie: The trait is being currently unused, it has no reason to remain. And I'd rather no further Assistant-related content is added. If the trait remains there, empty, it is meant to be used. For Asistant-specific content.
[11:44 AM] Rohesie: I am not? I am still trying to understand what you are asking.

Rohesie gets confused because i'm getting frustrated with you and kyler.

[11:44 AM] Rohesie: Why do you want the trait to remain?

[11:44 AM] MrStonedOne: i'm asking why you think a trait could be used for positive things

I'm so frustrated I forgot a word. Can you figure out what it is?

[11:44 AM] Rohesie: Maybe it can be used for other things, sure.

Rohesie did.

[11:45 AM] Rohesie: I doubt people are going to add negative content, but I guess it's possible?

This was the key part of my conflict with rohesie, Glad we could get to it even with all of your distraction.

[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: the fact you don't want more positive assistant things is not a reason to remove it since it could be used for negative things

My original goal was to actually try and expand on the questionings so i could turn it into a teachable movement, by this point i'm too pissed off at your attempts to steer the convo back to you to remember that.

[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: so you should not use that as a reasoning
[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: to justify removing
[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: it

But I still get off a call to action.

[11:45 AM] Rohesie: The trait is unused
[11:45 AM] Rohesie: that's the main reason

Rohesie misses the point. This convo isn't about the trait, its about rather or not the non-sequitur was a non-sequitur.

[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: if you bring this up again

But i'm too frustrated to handle that well...

[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: i will ban you fromt he discord

And express that in a non-productive way.

[11:45 AM] <:catte:836945908331184148>: what
[11:45 AM] Lag (isnt) Gone: ?
[11:45 AM] Rohesie: What?
[11:45 AM] <:catte:836945908331184148>: what

[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: i do not care about it being unused
[11:45 AM] AnturK: mso what the fuck are you talking about
[11:45 AM] Rohesie: Nevermind, MSO
[11:45 AM] MrStonedOne: i don't care about the trait at all
[11:45 AM] Rohesie: I'll be in coderbus
[11:45 AM] Rohesie: Have a nice time

You kept trying to steer a conversation that didn't even involve you over to something you could grandstand over. You do this, all the fucking time.

3: Discord is for discourse to happen. Do not disrupt the ability to hold a conversation. This includes spam, dog piling, excessive embeds, and so on. Enclose links with < > to hide embeds.

I do not see how discourse can ever happen if people keep trying to drag conversations they aren't a part of in whatever direction they think they can grandstand over.

I do not see how discourse can ever happen if people keep trying to drag conversations to arguments they can argue more easily, in face of clear attempts to limit it.

My only regrets was allowing you to frustrate me into banning rohesie, and not giving antur and kyler timeouts for doing the same shit.

[iamgoofball]

i smoked some weed today hoping to divine some wisdom out of your actions, and instead i come back to this thread to see nonsense drivel being posted by MSO being unwilling to admit they did something wrong

You kept trying to steer a conversation that didn't even involve you

1. This entire discussion started because you opened a revert of my PR. Why do you keep dodging this point? And why was your response to being asked about this to say "i should have unfairly banned two other people too!"
2. i have a right to ask you why the fuck you're reverting my balance change alongside your stupid high school debate club grandstanding about a fucking trait existing or not existing in the codebase
3. you see how your PR says "dont remove the trait, its unrelated"? this is why I asked you if you wanted to fucking remake the PR without the hooch nerf revert in it

[11:42 AM]Timed Out Blutarch Mann: MSO just make a PR that re-adds the trait but doesn't re-add the hooch healing

direct fucking quote right here where i said to re-add the trait in a separate PR so that the hooch nerf didn't get merged, because you were reverting my hooch nerf, and saying it had nothing to do with the hooch nerf(that you were reverting)

is it making it through your thick skull now what you did wrong here MSO? do you understand why you're being a massive fucking child about all this and that going "yeah well be lucky i didnt ban 2 more people!!!" just makes you continue to look like a massive fucking child?

i'll spell it out for everyone since MSO doesn't seem to get it

mso claiming i wasn't involved is absolute bullshit, because he's reverting my pr

source: when he stickybanned me for secborgs being removed at the direction of the headcoder, design lead, and headmin kor, i was still declared responsible and involved and stickybanned until it was reverted because since i made the pr, i was involved

by his own stupid fucked up logic, i'm involved with conversation about the hooch nerf because i made the fucking pr, unless MSO wants to admit he was wrong in stickybanning me for the secborg incident all those years ago

oh, and for bonus points:

This is you continuing to try to steer the convo back to something you can grandstand over. We aren't talking about hooch, In fact we aren't even talking at all, i'm talking to rohesie, not you.

1. its not grandstanding to ask you to stop reverting my PR.
2. if you wanted to have the conversation with rohesie in a private space, why didn't you DM rohesie or have the conversation in #maintainerbus?

you literally ignored everything that was posted, and ignored everything posted in the OP so that you could log dump with witty comments and go "actually i was right all along" without actually looking at the evidence you posted

[MrStonedOne]

I left the ending of my reply open to give you a chance to see if you understand why your conduct was disruptive to my attempts to talk to rohesie. You did not, so i will be rejecting this appeal.


I'll leave you with a little guide.

Code: Select all

I was trying to have a convo about this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------V

(revert pr (trait removal (trait removal reason (roshesie stating a non-sequitur (me wanting to talk to them about it)))))

--------------------^
You kept trying to drag the convo back to here.

Doing it repeatedly like you did after i made it clear i did not want you to was disruptive, frustrating, and against rule 3 of the discord.

The true issue here is you are assuming my positions.

I don't want the trait in the code.

I just don't think the last thing using it getting removed is enough reason to remove it.

I think it should be removed for *other* reasons.

Assuming peoples positions and intentions like you did is kinda dickish dude.

For the record, oranges thought your timeout was justified.

[iamgoofball]

Assuming peoples positions and intentions like you did is kinda dickish dude.

so is opening a revert of someone's PR and then timing them out for a week when they ask you to stop reverting it

i wanted you to stop fucking using my PR as an excuse to soapbox about the fucking ethics of code cleanup and you weren't respecting my statements to do so, so you should be timed out from the codebase under that logic

[MrStonedOne]

Assuming peoples positions and intentions like you did is kinda dickish dude.

..... when they ask you to stop reverting it

The fact you still think that is what this is about is why your appeal got denied.