[Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

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Summoner
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:56 pm
Byond Username: Summoner99

[Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by Summoner » #627771

BYOND account: Summoner99
Character name: GAIS-22
Ban type: Notes
Ban length: N/A - Its a note.
Ban reason: "As an asimov borg, brigged a person for 13 minutes, told that is against the rules."
Time ban was placed: 2022-01-28 17:58:34
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 177445
Your side of the story: I was remodeling escape and tearing apart the floor panels when a Janitor claimed it was an active harmful activity to do so, I told him to leave me alone, he drags me off to genetics (?), and about a few minutes pass of just screaming at each other till he hits me with a mop and I run around while he chases me. I flash him, he goes for the mop and I flash him again four more times then lock him in Departures Security Room. I call for humans and security, two assistants arrive but no security as it is lowpop. Humans take him, he uncuffs and runs off and comes back with more gear and talking about how I am rogue and a traitor because I "emagged beepsky" to arrest him. He wants to reset me and complains on radio for awhile before returning and staring outside the glass airlocks. I ignore him, go to kitchen to open some fridges for a human and as I pass back to Escape I see him seemingly trying to get to robotics. I ignore him and continue removing the pipes from the now-removed floor. He comes back with the other assistants and I'm guessing a spear though I only saw the text in chat and not physically. Tear gas grenades are launched and I move with Beepsky being behind me, Beepsky gets hit by a spear and gets mad. I move and another tear gas grenade goes off so I decide that after 50-60 minutes of being messed around with in a round for literally no actual reason he was finally on my nerves to be arrested and given over to the crew. Beepsky cuffs him and the assistants and I remove the Janitors gas mask, radio (to stop him from crying like he has for the past hour), and his other gear while his lawyer grabs his belongings. As I was about to grab him another gas grenade goes off due to an assistant so I grab the Janitor and take him directly to the brig to be handed off. I throw him in the cell, press the >> till it hits the cap, hit START and was handing it over to the lawyer and the assistants. Literally any human rather than me then BWOINK leading to the top notes. The timer was just meant to be temporary to do the swap over between myself and the humans, I don't care about security laws and I did not want to be involved with this guy anymore as I joined the round to build a room but instead I spent an hour+ in hell.

Why you think you should be unbanned: He wasn't even in the cell for 10 minutes, let alone 13, and he was thrown in just to get him from running around for the humans as there was no security nor command and I rather not have a guy who wants me dead standing next to me.

I have included the entire chatlog .html from my point of view to this post if you want to see an angry borg's point of view, these logs do not have timestamps but this round did last an hour+ and was lowpop so there isn't a lot of actual chat going on (EDIT: I would if it wasn't declined, here have a gist page because this site and Pastebin does not want it: https://gist.github.com/Summoners/3015d ... 5ef80b572f)
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Fikou
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Re: [Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by Fikou » #627801

Full ticket logs:
► Show Spoiler
As I have said, he was thrown in for 13 minutes and while circumstances made that full time not pass, don't throw people in for 13 minutes, it's that simple.
I don't see why I should lift this note, but you may request a headmin if you wish.
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CMDR_Gungnir
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Re: [Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #627808

It may be worth noting that the specific wording of that rule cited about Security Policy is
Security Policy & Precedents #4 wrote: For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins. Brig sentences totaling more than 10 minutes can be adminhelped, as can be gulag or perma sentences or a pattern of illegitimate punishment.
It doesn't necessarily say that "Setting it above 10 minutes is an immediate rule break" just that it can be ahelped. (If it IS an immediate rule break, then the system should be changed so that you can't set it above 10 minutes, and the rules should mention it)
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Summoner
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:56 pm
Byond Username: Summoner99

Re: [Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by Summoner » #627823

I would like an headmin and other administration to look into this.
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Vekter
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Re: [Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by Vekter » #629197

You did say "other administration", so.

I would say that Fikou's note is 100% accurate, though it should be updated to give context to the situation as to why you brigged them for as long as you did. Notes have to either be 1) inaccurate or 2) unwarranted to be removed, and neither of these are the case here.
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Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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MrStonedOne
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Re: [Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by MrStonedOne » #629224

Preamble: I have not looked at logs and only skimmed thru the replies, so apologies if anything is inaccurate.

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I feel like this applies here, but i'm unclear as to how.

Some thoughts: A note thats more about a order or condition they must follow sits this appeal in odd limbo as half of this appeal is about the specific order to not brig for more then 10 minutes as borg, as a condition they have to follow moving forward, but that technically falls under admin complaint. I just dont know if we gain anything by forcing them to make that a seperate thread given the grey area this sits in.
As an asimov borg, brigged a person for 13 minutes, told that is against the rules
The confusing thing here is I don't actually understand this train of thought. The only policy quoted stated they can be actioned. or in other words, if it was 10 minutes or less, the ahelp would have been mostly ignored for not being long enough to bother looking into. I don't think it's meant to imply that sentences over 10 are flat out not allowed.

also...

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Said policy doesn't apply to slicons because slicons are not security. (unless they are acting like security or ordered to act like security, see headmin rulings).

We've generally held conflicts that didn't originate from somebody antag hunting (or otherwise valid hunting as a mini-mod version of security) to a looser standard then security is held to, it seems silly to do enforce security policy on a job type that icly is specifically told they are not security and do not care about space law, in a situation where they were the target of other-player-invented conflict that was borderline against the rules (see 1st screenshot).

Closing question: The thread OP implies they were purely removing the floortiles and not the plating, is this accurate? and finally, was the janitor played by somebody who had the hours on the server to know that this was unharmful? (see 1st screenshot)
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dragomagol
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Re: [Fikou] Summoner99 - Absurd Note Appeal

Post by dragomagol » #630041

After examining the round in question, we agree with MSO's assessment of the situation that the janitor appears to be violating Silicon Protections 1.4,
As a nonantagonist (human or otherwise), instigating conflict with silicons so you can kill them.
Nowhere that I could see did the janitor order the borg not to continue its work renovating departures, instead giving flimsy reasons to justify the renovations as a direct threat to human safety.

Code: Select all

[2022-01-28 16:52:59.556] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "oh" (Departure Lounge (108,69,2))
[2022-01-28 16:53:08.840] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "and you breached the security office." (Departure Lounge (108,69,2))
[2022-01-28 16:53:14.220] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "that&#39;s ALWAYS a good idea." (Departure Lounge (108,69,2))

Code: Select all

[2022-01-28 16:53:32.934] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "excuse me, Maintanance is vital to survival" (Departure Lounge (107,69,2))
[2022-01-28 16:53:39.234] SAY: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) "It is not" (Departure Lounge (104,69,2))
[2022-01-28 16:53:41.415] SAY: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) "Dont try that bull on me" (Departure Lounge (104,69,2))
[2022-01-28 16:53:42.874] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "especially during radiation storms, or depressurization" (Departure Lounge (107,69,2))
After failing to convince the borg to stop, the janitor attempts to pull the borg away, accusing it of being unslaved and insisting that the renovations will cause a "crisis." Only after the janitor hit the borg with a mop did the borg retaliate by flashing the janitor and turning off Beepsky's safeties, to which the janitor screams that the borg was a traitor.

Code: Select all

[2022-01-28 16:59:40.016] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "THATS EMAG" (Aft Maintenance (97,72,2))
[2022-01-28 16:59:48.062] ATTACK: HentaiSatan/(Jay Sullivan) Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) is being stripped of the zipties by HentaiSatan/(Jay Sullivan) (Aft Primary Hallway (107,99,2))
[2022-01-28 16:59:50.503] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "BORG IS TRAITOR" (Aft Primary Hallway (107,98,2))
The janitor returns to departures after some time, where the borg sees him and bolts the doors to keep him out. The janitor attempts to hack in anyway.

Code: Select all

[2022-01-28 17:08:54.527] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "i&#39;m wat" (Departure Lounge (107,69,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:04.813] ATTACK: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) has grabbed *no key*/(Officer Beepsky) passive grab (NEWHP: 45)  (Aft Primary Hallway (107,90,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:05.354] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "what the fuck" (Aft Primary Hallway (108,110,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:09.352] ATTACK: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) has bolted [Departure Lounge] (Departure Lounge (107,71,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:09.554] ATTACK: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) has bolted [Departure Lounge] (Departure Lounge (107,71,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:09.787] ATTACK: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) has bolted [Departure Lounge] (Departure Lounge (107,71,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:11.808] SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "all the doors are bolted!" (Aft Primary Hallway (107,110,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:12.150] SAY: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) "Dustan" (Departure Lounge (107,71,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:21.732] SAY: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) "Coming in and doing the classic villain monologing is a bit silly" (Departure Lounge (107,71,2))
[2022-01-28 17:09:23.427] ATTACK: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) has temp shocked for 30 seconds [Aft Primary Hallway] (Aft Primary Hallway (107,111,2))
This is where the borg finally has enough and arrests the janitor.

Code: Select all

[2022-01-28 17:14:49.345] SAY: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) "Im done with you Dustin" (Departure Lounge (107,72,2))
[2022-01-28 17:14:50.905] SAY: Summoner99/(GAIS-22) "You rae bineg arrested" (Departure Lounge (107,72,2))
As MSO also points out,
For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins. Brig sentences totaling more than 10 minutes can be adminhelped, as can be gulag or perma sentences or a pattern of illegitimate punishment.

We find the note to be both inaccurate (the brigging by itself is not against the rules), and somewhat muddled by dubious behaviour of the janitor.

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... nd-177445/

Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Remove note
NamelessFairy: Remove note
RaveRadbury: Remove note
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