[datriux] Bytube - appeal for old note

[Bytube]

BYOND account: bytube
Character name: Heedal
Ban type: Note
Ban reason: Banned for 1440 minutes - Sexual harassement like pda messages as lawyer. Rule 8 break. This kind of behavior is not acceptable. Do not repeat this.
Time ban was placed: 2018-03-30 23:01:16
Server you were playing on when banned: Bagil
Round ID in which ban was placed: #85790
Your side of the story: I had been collecting library books and reading off their contents via pda. These mainly were variations of WGW and The Lusty Argonian Maid, which at the time were popular copypastas to spam over the intercomm. An admin seemed to not take it very well, and decided to ban me for three days rather than have the expected IC lynch mob take care of me.
Why you think you should be unbanned: The note is very old and doesn't represent me as I am nowadays, plus I personally I feel it's quite unfair considering how, at the time, WGW spam was much more prevalent and accepted.
Anything else we should know: The admin who gave the ban and note is no longer a part of the /tg/ admin team, and I cannot find anything about them on the forum or Discord.

[Timberpoes]

Datriux is long since retired. I'll investigate this in their place.

For reference, your PDA logs for the shift:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... 90/pda.txt

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	Line 61: [22:38:25]PDA: Bytube/(Heedal) (PDA: lawyer PDA) sent "There comes a point in every person's life that they would like to keep private. John Doe is no different from this. It all started late one evening in the dorms. Doe ran in, attempting to find the silver coin he had dropped earlier, desperately needing it as he realized that the Youtool in the arrivals hallway held a pair of gloves still. It was then that he spotted the pAI device sitting on the table. Curious, he picked it up, flipping on the switch. The device gave a low humming sound, its display reading that it was searching for persona- THERE! He had found a personality to download! Doe quickly read the information about the card, but due to a small crack in the screen he was unable to read the name. Deciding that it probably didn't matter, he pressed the download button.PING!"Greetings human, I am SexuBot Version 19g, how may I 'service' you today?"John just stared at the card, openmouthed. He then sighed, pu...
	Line 63: [22:38:56]PDA: Bytube/(Heedal) (PDA: lawyer PDA) sent "Jason was walking to the locker room when he hears a loud moan. "shit, that cat was delicious. awe crap i'm still hungry" just then Tyler, a Lion, and star quarterback comes around the lockers with a dripping 12 inch rod. he spots jason and says, "hey why don't you come over here and worship my cock?" jason, not wanting to be beaten up by the strongest jock in the entire school gets down on his knees and starts slurping Tyler's monster into his mouth. "oh yeah! suck me hard!" not wanting to dissapoint, jason starts using his tongue to lap at Tyler's balls while using his throat to milk tyler's cock. "get up and turn around pup!" tyler commands. jason complies and starts moaning when tyler positions his spit lubed cock at jason's entrance. "oh fuck you are tight" jason starts moaning from the sheer pleasure and his back arches. "fuck yeah take that monster cock in your tigh...
	Line 66: [22:39:11]PDA: Bytube/(Heedal) (PDA: lawyer PDA) sent "make me thot" to Ellie Morris (Station Engineer) (73,119,2)
	Line 70: [22:40:50]PDA: Bytube/(Heedal) (PDA: lawyer PDA) sent "One day while Andy was masturbating," to Everyone (147,165,2)
	Line 79: [22:41:33]PDA: Bytube/(Heedal) (PDA: lawyer PDA) sent "Sec doesn't like my poetry lol" to Everyone (147,165,2)

Record correction: 1440 minutes is a day ban, not a 3-day ban. According to the database, the ban was placed on 2018-03-30 23:01:17 and expired 2018-03-31 23:01:17 - 24 hours in total.

Even in the era where WGW was acceptable, if memory serves me correct the exemption for WGW was unique.

From what I understand, it wasn't an open floodgate for reading smut in general whilst being free from all OOC/administrative consequences. I don't think datriux's use of individual discretion in banning you for those messages would have been an admin faux pas liable for headmin overturning had it been appealed then.

That being said, I will conduct a little deeper research of my own by consulting the Boomer Oracles old admins for extra context around how reading porn/smut over comms was treated back then in general.

As for the note not representing current you, this is how your note panel looks in the modern day:


As a rule we do not accept "I'm no longer like this" appeals because the in-game note panel hides old notes that are no longer immediately revelant.

A note history is still a complete history of your time on our servers and is not something we have ever adjusted because a player claims they've changed. The admin team (at least anyone who has ever been trained by me) only take into account recent and relevant notes when considering issues. Whether you believe me, trust me or take any solace in that fact, the point still stands regardless.

So I will get back to you on whether the WGW clause was an immunity to admin interaction for reading smut or porn over comms or PDA. If it was, I will remove your note and ban on that basis and that basis alone. If reading smut/porn was still actionable back then, then the note and ban will remain.

If the above doesn't play out in your favour, I will concede that the note as it is worded COULD fall under the umbrella of viewtopic.php?p=347563#p347563

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... notes can be appealed if they match one of the following two cases: ... The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.

I would not be open to removing the note on that basis, but I would be open to changing the wording of it to remedy that defect as a measure of good faith on the admin team's part to ensure the notes we do keep on players are fair and accurate. If you have an alternative wording that you think more fairly represents things, I would consider replacing or ways to incorporate it into your current note.

[Bytube]

...because the in-game note panel hides old notes that are no longer immediately revelant.

Wasn't aware of this, thanks for letting me know.

I don't have much else to add, I guess it's relieving to know that my notes don't label me as some sex fiend.

[Timberpoes]

I followed up internally and I'll quote an ancient GM:

Reading wgw over comms would likely not have gotten someone banned unless they were really spamming it and interrupting the game for everyone else (although even then the encouragement was for the crew to deal with it)
But general smut/porn wouldn't have been allowed (not that I ever remember it happening) it was only ever really wgw because tradition, I guess idk

So ultimately I won't be removing the note/ban.

That being said, I think "Sexual harassement like pda messages as lawyer" is a very serious negative mark on your record. If I were you in position, I would consier it an unfair way of wording what you actually did.

Despite the ban and associated note's age, it would be a lame cop-out if an admin dismissed the appeal entirely on that basis when offering to adjust the note takes 2 minutes to log on and do it.

So I am happy and willing to adjust the note portion to the following if you think this represents things better:
Broadcast smut obtained from the library via the Lawyer's "message everyone" PDA functionality. While WGW has a special exception carved out allowing players to say it, other forms of smut and/or porn fall under Rule 8 - even if obtained from the in-game library. Please do not repeat this.

This is an exception to the "fuck off, this was too long ago, we don't want players appealing years-old notes" clause, due to both the subject matter of the existing note and how generally misrepresentative of the context it can be.

Would that be an acceptable compromise and conclusion to the appeal?

[iamgoofball]

hello, boomer oracle here, porn over comms didn't really get cracked down on until recently
reading porn over comms/pda spam was treated as "you are now valid to everyone at all times"
exceptions were not carved out for WGW in specific until the transition period in the early 2020s to porn reading being banned
this was, however, dumb policy and it was eventually removed in the 2020s when we instituted the full porn reading ban for obvious reasons
but late 2010s, yeah reading porn over comms was ss13 tradition, however sleazy it may be

[Bytube]

So I am happy and willing to adjust the note portion to the following if you think this represents things better:
Broadcast smut obtained from the library via the Lawyer's "message everyone" PDA functionality. While WGW has a special exception carved out allowing players to say it, other forms of smut and/or porn fall under Rule 8 - even if obtained from the in-game library. Please do not repeat this.

This is fine, thanks Timber.

[Timberpoes]

I shall do it now. o7

[Timberpoes]

All updated. You should be able to see the updated wording through your View Admin Remarks verb (that's still a thing, right?)