[PAS][Creationpro] areion22- Evading jobban / Captain kill

[Areion223]

Byond account and character name: Areion223 (Clark Brandon)
Banning admin:peoplearestrange
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Sever
Ban reason and length: Please explain on the forums why you attacked and killed the captain with a fireaxe as a non tratior? Perma
Time ban was placed (including time zone): about 2 a.m. Gmt+1
Your side of the story: I was an Atmospheric Technician so i got myself at the start of the round my gear that was the fire suit etc. Short after that I got myself the fireaxe (not planning to kill anyone). Short after that theres an atmospheric alarm so i go and check Plasma Tanks have been placed all over the hall and have been opened so i close them and try to clean the hall from the Plasma. Some Syndicate guy comes shoots me down, I´m critical not dead, people bring me to medbay into the cryo cell short after that botanist comes and takes me away butchering me down, he gets arrested i get cloned, i got braindamage i go with my gear to the cryo cells (cant use them because of the braindamage), doctor comes and tells me that its not possibel to cure it so i think then i´ll start roleplaying as a braindamaged athmos guy with a fire axe and no ID so i start playing with the fire alarms etc openly shouting out my braindamage (more or less stuff like "RED LIGHTS!!!") after that i start butchering down cows etc. (non human) after that i see people going into that eva thing... i follow them (no access so i smash the windows) after that i watch them "stealing" not sure didnt pay attention the eva suits while i was playing arround with the fire alarm. short after that the shuttle gets called so many move to the escape behind me nearly directly the singularity only getting away because of some incredible luck. At escape seeing captain, (so i shouted out senteces like "CAPTAIN WANNA PLAY!!?") since no reaction to that i break the windows of the security escape "waiting thing" and start yelling out stuff like captain play!! he ignores me... i dont really care, i start hugging him after some while he pulls out his gun and stuns me... i yell stuff like "CAPTAIN EVIL CAPTAIN DIE!" knowing and giving enouth time to him understand that i´m going to hurt him (still playing as braindamaged athmos) he still pays me no attention i grab my fire axe and giving him enouth time to see (and the others) that i am going to attack me he still ignores me i start slaughtering him (still out of reaction because he attacked me / tazed me (i´m just thinking somebody with heavy braindamage and a guy with cellurare damage is going to act to violence with violence)) the people arround more or less ignoring what happens short after i more or less finished slaughtering him down, i get tazed i´m still yelling stuff out like "captain evil he me harm" however i get stunned and beaten down into critical with lazer guns or so. Having a disconnect because its 2:20 or so (a.m.) i´m alway having that time a dc because my ip changes so i couldnt explain myself to the admin that kindly banned me... Logging about a minut later into the server getting the message YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED[...] (hope this isnt too much text but i think thats my side of the story)
Why you think you should be unbanned: I more or less reacted out of "self defense" well more or less it was a roleplay reaction as a guy with braindamage and a fireaxe (deadly combination) and i wouldnt have done it if he hadnt attacked me first well "attacked" he tazed me and i think such a tazer would actually hurt quiete much... so after all it was out of my sight a Rp reaction to the Captain that ignored me and shot me with a tazer...

[Not-Dorsidarf]

'I'm just roleplaying! My character is so crazy!' is explicitly not a justification for murder or any other breach of the rules.

-posted under anon3 amendment-

[Vekter]

Rule 4.1 states:

Randomly murdering people is generally considered to be ruining someone’s fun and poor form in roleplay. If you don’t have a solid IC reason for murder, you may be removed. Trying to justify it with ‘My character is so random/insane’ is not tolerated.

[peoplearestrange]

Ok, so lets get into this. Thank you for coming here to explain yourself, more information is better, so thanks for the explanation you gave.

Firstly, you are only perma banned as a temporary measure as you were disconnected when I tried to question you, this is standard practice as a way to force people to explain themselves on the forum.

Secondly, as much as I am someone to encourage role-play, you did pick quite the "character" to act out. I can understand the flicking the fire alarms and stuff (thats actually kinda comical), the cow slaughter fine, but the lack of escalation, even under the guise of RP is just not acceptable.

Taking this from an RP perspective being tased would probably be something you wouldn't understand, its ranged, it wouldnt be obvious the captain had done it while you lay twitching on the floor.

From a non RP view, the Captain tased you, you gave (from what I saw) almost no time to react before slashing the hell out of him with a fire-axe (which gives almost 0 chance for him to respond with a disarm or anything to stop this due to the speed of attack and damage it does). There was also not really anyone else easily about as a lot of other crap was happening in escape and it was all fairly manic.

Simply put, he shot you once, non-lethally and you returned by slashing him to death. Now does that seem like a fair situation?
All in all what I'm saying is your reaction is not acceptable, however I also don't believe you intended to out and out grief. Though I can't really overlook the fact that you kill someone as a non-antag for very very flimsy reasons (and as far as our rules go, invalid), therefore I think a 24hour ban seems reasonable and I ask you to re-read the rules in this time. See you tomorrow.

EDIT: So we need some more information from another admin due to some new issues.

[NikNakFlak]

Don't resolve this yet.

[Vekter]

Can we get any relevant info or conversation echoed here?

[NikNakFlak]

This player was caught evading a permanent jobban so were just having him appeal that as well in the same thread rather than making a new one. Alittle weird but this has been all over the place.

[Areion223]

(Well then heres my appeal for my Ban evade maybe it is possibel to combinate it with the job ban itself)
Byond account and character name: Achery Issac Clank

Banning admin: Creationpro

Ban type (What are you banned from?):Well i guess Perma? not sure well i got perma banned from the head jobs and captain and that forever so its a perma job ban from those jobs, I havent received (i think) a ban for the evade itself, it came more or less to speech when i was talking to niknakflak

Ban reason and length: The reason was that i and the hos had the lasers on kill when a clown and bartender went into the ai upload without permission
Time ban was placed (including time zone):sorry no idea, too long ago gmt + 1

Your side of the story: Okay i´ll put this into two parts part A why i ban evaded and part B what happend that i got job banned;

A: So well in short it was because i wasnt botherd making a appeal (i know that doesnt sound too good) but it wasnt like instant with the job ban i stopped playing after that round (before i got the ban itself it was rather more a tick more to stop playing at all) i talked already with niknakflak, i had stopped playing and then someday noticed that i got banned / punished i thought i noticed that only 6 months later well niknakflak ment i had logged in once short after the job ban and then stopped playing for a while i dont know so however after these 6 months when i was intrested playing again i made myself a new account and started to play space station again.

B: After reading the job ban appeal and trying to remember what happend i´m trying to rehearse what was my side. So it was the start of the round, the hos and i were discussing something or so well usualstuff i think nuke disc and so on then we notice that without anybody asking us that the bartender and the clown were for our meaning sneaking into the ai upload so ofcourse out of our perspectiv they were maybe antag and tryd to upload some kind of law or something well that was my thought and we didnt immedatly start firing at them with deadly lasers i'm quiete sure that when we noticed them sayd "out!" or what are you doing here and they were ignoring us or not giving a clear answer the turrets were i think first on stun and after trying to pull them out they were still refusing to leave (we didnt cuff them so i think none of us both had handcuffs), the hos or me not sure turned them on deadly for us it looked like the bartender was the guy who planned or was the "mastermind" behind it so we didnt save him and the clown that didnt really say anything just was like pulling with him, the hos brought him to the medbay or so, cant remember anything after that but i'm quiete sure that the clown was antag so we saved the wrong dude but still there was an antag in the ai upload without permision from anyone and the bartender helping him... I guess the right think would have been to bring both to brig and hear what they got to say, but we didnt, we somehow choosed the easy way i mean they werent even intresstet in answering us what the hell they were doing.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Maybe a ban is right but i think perma from all heads is maybe too much (okay thats what i think and i thought it would be okay to murder the captain because i was braindamaged(that argument with that somebody with braindamaged wouldnt really know what hit him because it was a range weapon gave me to think)) still we did something wrong inform of killing them and then asking but they were very suspicious i mean not answering any questions from the hos and captain not following orders of getting out of the ai upload even after beeing tased and pulled out, they werent explaining themself and it looked like they were trying to upload some shit to the ai plus one of the was antag (I'm not even sure if i was captain or hos). Not even the ai sayid anything to us maybe it was just watching all the time but it could have told us that it sent them both to the ai core (which ofcourse we wouldnt have allowed) but that would have cleared the question why they are there and how the hell they came into the ai upload, i mean we only noticed it because we saw the door of the upload chamber closing.

P.s. I think you should change this form so that the questions are bolt and the answers are normal, it would be allot easier to jump between them if you have so much text.

[peoplearestrange]

I'm going to refrain from directly commenting on Creation's part of the ban, but simply put we normally take ban evasion very seriously. I'm not sure if the incident deserved a perma ban from a job role or not, but the fact that it was applied and you got around it just shows how little a ban means to you.

We don't apply bans to stop people having fun, we apply them to either keep the fun going for everyone else or try to show someone the error of what they are doing. If you avoid said punishment then it makes anything we give out fairly void.

Regarding my ban though I would lift that part given that its un-related, so shouldn't be a contributing factor to further stuff. Though the current "temp" perma will still remain pending a discussion. After CP has commented I think ultimately a head should make the final say, it's more complicated than originally thought.

[Areion223]

You are right and i'm sorry. To be honest i didnt think it would be a big deal... After all I'm quiete new to this game and i master only the basics.

[NikNakFlak]

We'll get this resolved for you soon though

[CreationPro]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1205
The ban reqeust the original jobban was placed for. It was a perma so that you would come and explain yourself, but, apparently, it didn't have the proper effect. If you haven't already, take a thorough look through that thread. That, I don't want happening again.

Anyhow, I'm fine with the jobbans being lifted, now it's up to the other admins to decide what they think of your ban evasion.

[peoplearestrange]

My suggestion would be to make this a ban extend a couple more days from now, making it a essentially week ban.
But with a heft warning of, you get found ban evading again, thats it, outa here, straight to perma, do not collect your toolbox, do not pass go.

[Stickymayhem]

Generally evading bans will result in a permanent server ban.

As Peoplearestrange explained, ignoring existing bans ruins the whole system and we absolutely cannot take that lightly.

I'm going to say a two week server ban and a permanent ban from the positions you were previously banned for would be appropriate. Go play on some other servers, follow their rules and learn what is expected from players during your time off.

[CreationPro]

Whatever you guys find more appropriate, I will agree on.

[Jordie0608]

Areion22's permaban has been replaced with a week ban.