[quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
[quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Logs for those that want to take a gander: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/956 ... 0am%29.htm
Byond account and character name: Malkevin / Urist McSpacedorf
Banning admin: Quartzcrystal
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server ban, maybe job ban?
Ban reason and length: As captain, lasered a crew member to death (without warning) simply because he asked the AI to let him into the HoP office during a rev round. This was unecessary and your justification for it was not satisfactory.
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 1440 minutes.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): ~00:40 GMT
Your side of the story:
Rev round was confirmed, most of the heads were dead or unresponsive, HoS didn't seem very competent, brig had just been bombed - possibly twice, tcomms had been fucked with although the AI managed to patch them up.
Sec had run out of implants
It was that part of the round where it was kill or be killed, and being that I was the captain I had a duty to not get killed.
Jacob had asked the AI to open a door, and the AI said that it can't let him into the HoP office (due to me robocoping the AI), I was just down the engineering corridor and popped up to see him standing outside the HoP office - I figured he was either a rev looking to get onto the bridge to kill me or the HoP, or he was one of those people that wanted to steal all access.
Why you think you should be unbanned:
1. Because the ban is pure grade A bullshit, unless something changed and I didn't get the memo that Rev is no longer "Rev is Rev" with admins taking a hands off approach.
2. Because the guy I killed was either:
a. A rev looking to kill me or the HoP
b. Someone trying to steal all access, this is Grand Theft - a capital crime
Both of which made Jacob valid for an execution via on the spot lasering, which I did into crit and then dragged him to the brig so he could possibly be treated then implanted if Sec managed to get hold of some (No I couldn't take him to medbay because medbay is always a den of filth in rev/cult rounds)
3. Quartz said it would've been fine to kill him if he was breaking in. I did argue and maintain my argument that using the AI IS a method to breaking in - it's the lazy man's tool but it's a tool nonetheless.
4. And I'll say again, it was rev - its a round type were the standard of play for years has always been "shits gonna happen", security gets a lot more leeway and its generally accepted that it'll be a blood bath.
And I'll also note that due to my apprehension to use my trigger finger earlier a RevHead was deborged and had his brain thrown back into his body and defibbed, so I wasn't in the mood for letting more shit slide.
Byond account and character name: Malkevin / Urist McSpacedorf
Banning admin: Quartzcrystal
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server ban, maybe job ban?
Ban reason and length: As captain, lasered a crew member to death (without warning) simply because he asked the AI to let him into the HoP office during a rev round. This was unecessary and your justification for it was not satisfactory.
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 1440 minutes.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): ~00:40 GMT
Your side of the story:
Rev round was confirmed, most of the heads were dead or unresponsive, HoS didn't seem very competent, brig had just been bombed - possibly twice, tcomms had been fucked with although the AI managed to patch them up.
Sec had run out of implants
It was that part of the round where it was kill or be killed, and being that I was the captain I had a duty to not get killed.
Jacob had asked the AI to open a door, and the AI said that it can't let him into the HoP office (due to me robocoping the AI), I was just down the engineering corridor and popped up to see him standing outside the HoP office - I figured he was either a rev looking to get onto the bridge to kill me or the HoP, or he was one of those people that wanted to steal all access.
Why you think you should be unbanned:
1. Because the ban is pure grade A bullshit, unless something changed and I didn't get the memo that Rev is no longer "Rev is Rev" with admins taking a hands off approach.
2. Because the guy I killed was either:
a. A rev looking to kill me or the HoP
b. Someone trying to steal all access, this is Grand Theft - a capital crime
Both of which made Jacob valid for an execution via on the spot lasering, which I did into crit and then dragged him to the brig so he could possibly be treated then implanted if Sec managed to get hold of some (No I couldn't take him to medbay because medbay is always a den of filth in rev/cult rounds)
3. Quartz said it would've been fine to kill him if he was breaking in. I did argue and maintain my argument that using the AI IS a method to breaking in - it's the lazy man's tool but it's a tool nonetheless.
4. And I'll say again, it was rev - its a round type were the standard of play for years has always been "shits gonna happen", security gets a lot more leeway and its generally accepted that it'll be a blood bath.
And I'll also note that due to my apprehension to use my trigger finger earlier a RevHead was deborged and had his brain thrown back into his body and defibbed, so I wasn't in the mood for letting more shit slide.
Last edited by Malkevin on Fri May 29, 2015 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Posting under anon amendment
Is captain: Can order executions
Is Rev: security has more leeway
How is this even a ban?
Is captain: Can order executions
Is Rev: security has more leeway
How is this even a ban?
- Hibbles
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm
- Byond Username: HotelBravoLima
- Location: United States
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
This situation seems extremely cut and dry, I'd love to hear from Quartz about his reasoning.
RIP
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
I came in around the end of it, but the way it was told to me he just straight-up shot the guy, no questions, no attempt to arrest, nothing. Just merked him.
- ThatSlyFox
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:00 am
- Byond Username: ThatSlyFox
- Location: USA!
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Looks like you jumped to conclusions here. Guy asks to be let into the HoP office, you instantly think he is a rev and laser him on the spot. Very poor behavior.
A ban was a little much but a warning was/is needed.
A ban was a little much but a warning was/is needed.
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
If I question someone they'll just run awayVekter wrote:I came in around the end of it, but the way it was told to me he just straight-up shot the guy, no questions, no attempt to arrest, nothing. Just merked him.
I can't arrest, I'm the freaking captain - I don't carry cuffs. Stuns are wank now, egun can't keep them down long and the click delay on the collapsible bat is long enough that if I have a lag spike they can get up and run off.
And like I said, he was either a rev or someone bullshitting their way into the HoP office to commit Grand Theft, and in actual fact its the second that I'm more willing to light someone up for. Its not a revs fault they're a rev, but it is their fault if they go out their way to try and steal a high value item just because they want phat lewts.
By the way, can someone check the logs to see if the guy was a rev or not? I'm curious.
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
- Byond Username: Scones
- Location: cooler than thou
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
>nonimplanted person law 2ing into bridge subarea during confirmed rev w/ bombed brig and no more implants in security's handsThatSlyFox wrote:Looks like you jumped to conclusions here. Guy asks to be let into the HoP office, you instantly think he is a rev and laser him on the spot. Very poor behavior.
A ban was a little much but a warning was/is needed.
>jumped to conclusions
Do we know why this person was trying to get into the HoP's office? Did they not see how suspect that could look, in what sounds like one of the most code red of code red situations possible? If you are going to do very suspicious antagonist things, you should be prepared to shoulder the brunt of whatever force people use against you.
The CAPTAIN, the person who dispenses execution sentences, lethaled someone who he had good cause to believe was a hostile antagonist when nonlethals were not an option (he had no cuffs and security had no implants in the event he was in fact a rev)
Let's say I'm in fact a rev, and you are the Captain. While you are typing "what are you doing here", I have already killed you. This is a shoot first ask questions later scenario.Vekter wrote:I came in around the end of it, but the way it was told to me he just straight-up shot the guy, no questions, no attempt to arrest, nothing. Just merked him.
Attempt to arrest? The Captain shouldn't be lugging around handcuffs, he's armed for self-defense.
This situation is absurd. A CAPTAIN, during a round where Security and heads have historically had massive leeway, summarily executed someone for using the AI to enter a high security area during a confirmed revolution while the Brig was bombed, Security was in disarray, and there were no more implants.
- ThatSlyFox
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:00 am
- Byond Username: ThatSlyFox
- Location: USA!
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
I don't see how someone law 2ing into the HoP office warrant execution on the fucking spot no words asked, rev or not. That is not good cause.Scones wrote: >nonimplanted person law 2ing into bridge subarea during confirmed rev w/ bombed brig and no more implants in security's hands
>jumped to conclusions
Do we know why this person was trying to get into the HoP's office? Did they not see how suspect that could look, in what sounds like one of the most code red of code red situations possible? If you are going to do very suspicious antagonist things, you should be prepared to shoulder the brunt of whatever force people use against you.
The CAPTAIN, the person who dispenses execution sentences, lethaled someone who he had good cause to believe was a hostile antagonist when nonlethals were not an option (he had no cuffs and security had no implants in the event he was in fact a rev)
Yes he is armed for self defense, not running down the halls gunning people down claiming he doesn't have cuffs and yelling "I AM THE CAPTAIN!". Security had full control over cargo (across the hall) and when I looked in at the round implants were literally laying around in cargo. Not to mention you can make cuffs in cargo. He has no excuse, stun and drag 6 tiles to cargo.Scones wrote:Let's say I'm in fact a rev, and you are the Captain. While you are typing "what are you doing here", I have already killed you. This is a shoot first ask questions later scenario.Vekter wrote:I came in around the end of it, but the way it was told to me he just straight-up shot the guy, no questions, no attempt to arrest, nothing. Just merked him.
Attempt to arrest? The Captain shouldn't be lugging around handcuffs, he's armed for self-defense.
This situation is absurd. A CAPTAIN, during a round where Security and heads have historically had massive leeway, summarily executed someone for using the AI to enter a high security area during a confirmed revolution while the Brig was bombed, Security was in disarray, and there were no more implants.
And what were you afraid of? That the HoP might have left a all access ID in his office? Why not stun him down and take said ID out the console?
-
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:36 am
- Byond Username: Roadhog1
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Lethal force during contact is authorized when the security force faces a significant risk, now or later, by resorting to non-lethal means.ThatSlyFox wrote:I don't see how someone law 2ing into the HoP office warrant execution on the fucking spot no words asked, rev or not. That is not good cause.Scones wrote: >nonimplanted person law 2ing into bridge subarea during confirmed rev w/ bombed brig and no more implants in security's hands
>jumped to conclusions
Do we know why this person was trying to get into the HoP's office? Did they not see how suspect that could look, in what sounds like one of the most code red of code red situations possible? If you are going to do very suspicious antagonist things, you should be prepared to shoulder the brunt of whatever force people use against you.
The CAPTAIN, the person who dispenses execution sentences, lethaled someone who he had good cause to believe was a hostile antagonist when nonlethals were not an option (he had no cuffs and security had no implants in the event he was in fact a rev)Yes he is armed for self defense, not running down the halls gunning people down claiming he doesn't have cuffs and yelling "I AM THE CAPTAIN!". Security had full control over cargo (across the hall) and when I looked in at the round implants were literally laying around in cargo. Not to mention you can make cuffs in cargo. He has no excuse, stun and drag 6 tiles to cargo.Scones wrote:Let's say I'm in fact a rev, and you are the Captain. While you are typing "what are you doing here", I have already killed you. This is a shoot first ask questions later scenario.Vekter wrote:I came in around the end of it, but the way it was told to me he just straight-up shot the guy, no questions, no attempt to arrest, nothing. Just merked him.
Attempt to arrest? The Captain shouldn't be lugging around handcuffs, he's armed for self-defense.
This situation is absurd. A CAPTAIN, during a round where Security and heads have historically had massive leeway, summarily executed someone for using the AI to enter a high security area during a confirmed revolution while the Brig was bombed, Security was in disarray, and there were no more implants.
And what were you afraid of? That the HoP might have left a all access ID in his office? Why not stun him down and take said ID out the console?
Significant risks may be, but are not limited to; hulks, changelings, nuclear operatives, cultists, revolutionaries, wizards or subverted and/or malfunctioning silicons.
Kid tried to law 2 in the bridge for some stupid reason. It's trying to break into a nuclear facility that currently under attack by terrorists and being butthurt you got your ass shot off. "OH BUT I WASNT A BAD GUY." How is this even a warning? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
- Byond Username: Scones
- Location: cooler than thou
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
People are not entitled to nonlethal force when entering the Bridge during rev with an underprepared Captain. The notion is absurd.
This is entirely valid under policy. I don't see how this ban could stick.
If you guys want to enforce stringent antag knowledge/interaction policies, be my guest - But don't do it via bans that make absolutely no sense given the already established information from the rules page and previous appeals/ban reqs. In fact, I've noticed lately that there seems to be some disagreement in that regard between admins. It needs to stop. Sort out policy but do not make bans with conflicts like that.
I don't want to be that guy but
This isn't Bay. Fuck with shit during super red alert on rev, get fucked up. Again, why was the guy going into the HoP office? Why would he do that with any reason beyond theft, which in the case of an ID that may be inside, is a capital crime?
This is entirely valid under policy. I don't see how this ban could stick.
If you guys want to enforce stringent antag knowledge/interaction policies, be my guest - But don't do it via bans that make absolutely no sense given the already established information from the rules page and previous appeals/ban reqs. In fact, I've noticed lately that there seems to be some disagreement in that regard between admins. It needs to stop. Sort out policy but do not make bans with conflicts like that.
I don't want to be that guy but
This isn't Bay. Fuck with shit during super red alert on rev, get fucked up. Again, why was the guy going into the HoP office? Why would he do that with any reason beyond theft, which in the case of an ID that may be inside, is a capital crime?
- Skorvold
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:36 pm
- Byond Username: Skorvold
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Rev is hands off, this should be lifted.
Never give up! Trust your instincts!
Spoiler:
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
I'm lifting this. Rev, when security was this fucked up is a special case, and Captains technically have the authority to be lasering people on the spot anyway.
That said, Malkevin if there isn't a horde outside I'd advise you at least try stunning when you have stun weaponry, if only to give them a few more seconds on the ground to stammer out a reason before you laser them.
This is a risky method and depending on circumstances can still get you in trouble, especially if you abuse the authority a Captain has to just kill everyone in borderline cases.
That said, Malkevin if there isn't a horde outside I'd advise you at least try stunning when you have stun weaponry, if only to give them a few more seconds on the ground to stammer out a reason before you laser them.
This is a risky method and depending on circumstances can still get you in trouble, especially if you abuse the authority a Captain has to just kill everyone in borderline cases.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Good to know that this was lifted, but how did it happen in the first place
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: [quartzcrystal] Malkevin - Captain ban / Day ban
Lasering someone who's unarmed based on them opening a door with an AI looks bad and isn't play most admins want to encourage but Malkevin is an experienced player and used this harsh solution correctly, with the authority to back it up and the circumstances to justify it.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
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