akesson - qbopper 1440 server ban

[J_Madison]

Byond account and character name: akesson -randomname
Banning admin: qbopper
Ban type (What are you banned from?): server
Ban reason and length: Reason: Arresting people for being naked is not okay, and outright admitting to an admin that you're arresting someone for being naked over multiple rounds is metagrudging. Arresting people for dereliction of duty when their department blew up is also extrmely poor form. Take a day to rethink how you play sec
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2242 GMT
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): basil
Your side of the story:
Station bombed.
Greytiding brig.
Lights being smashed.
Medbay staff not healing anyone, they're at the bar derelicting duty.
See people fighting in brig, arrest one.

Note: this shift is REALLY slow right now. Like really slow. Literally two people showed signs of antag; shurikans, and one ling that we cremated.

See a naked lizard walking around. Nudity is against station code.
Set them to arrest.
Whilst securing CMO's body, go to collect the person set to arrest.
His buddy stops me arresting him.
Arrest them both.

Human MD arrested for preventing arrest.
Lizard naked MD arrested for dereliction of duty, nudity, calling for my lynching (not mentioned by me, but I was threatened).

I have to secure the CMO's body, whilst dragging both of these two to brig by myself.
Human MD sentanced to 5 mins brig.
Lizard sentanced to 100 pts gulag.
Brig getting greytided.
Human MD assaults me. Forgive him, release him.
Chef tries to kidnap me.
Lizard MD comes back, has a borg try to kill me, borg is rogue, end of dying to rogue borg because I'm trying to deal with greytiding and the borg trying to fuck me over, and the lizard that's now managed to convince my own security team that I should be killed.
My security team lets the borg take me, esword me, then they fail to kill the borg.
Banned.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
Admins banning security for doing their job episode.
Neither MD was helping anyone. They were at the bar doing absolutely nothing. This can be evidenced by the fact that I had to help revive a guy who had shurikans inside him, and that nobody helped the half dozen injured people.

Falsifying ban reason. Never did I say I arrested him simply because he was repeatedly naked. I arrest everyone that is naked, and I treat them equally especially when they have a job and they derelict it to be naked.
I admitted that I arrest for naked no matter what. It just so happens his playstyle of being naked every shift conflicts with mine. I choose to arrest for such "small" reasons because it is such a "small" effort to put on your jumpsuit like any other player on shift.

Not only this, naked/nudity means you also have no ID on, and various other factors that are a headache to security.

While I am overloaded, this is a slow shift. Nothing is happening. We're waiting for the shuttle to arrive. It's a slow moving shift with problems that I can deal with.

Just because you lost your department doesn't mean you derelict your duty to be naked in the bar and do absolutely nothing all shift, nor does it mean you can freely stop and disrupt arrests.

Code: Select all

Ticket #6: Christ110/(Hits-The-Wizard): this warden seems to be arresting me FNR - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Christ110/(Hits-The-Wizard): What happened before he arrested you
PM: Christ110/(Hits-The-Wizard)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): beepsky was set to arrest, and i was stunned. when i was arrested, i questioned him about it and he stated it was for nudity, and dereliction of duty. of course, i derelicted, THE MEDBAY WAS BLOWN UP.
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Christ110/(Hits-The-Wizard): I'll talk to him
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): Hey, did you arrest Hits-The-Wizard?
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): yeah
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): Mind telling me what happened?
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): dereliction of duty, nudity in the workplace, also his friend was disrupting the arrest
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): I'm not sure if either of those are very solid reasons to arrest
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): Considering his place of work exploded*
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): still nudity at work, repeated.
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): Why does that warrant an arrest, though
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): I mean sure you could bonk him on the head and say PUT SOME CLOTHES ON but arrest seems overkill
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): follow space law next time, why is he nude every shift?
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): Space law hasn't been relevant for a long time
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): dude all he has to do is not be fucking naked every shift. also he evaded the arrest and someone was helping and preventing the arrest
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): if he's doing it over multiple rounds that isn't really something you can act on
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): I mean I'm just saying it seems like a massive waste of your own time
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): actually, it's up to him to change his name
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): it would have taken 30 seconds, but his buddy and the CMO's corpse, and the shadowling or greytider smashing the lights and the brig, and the fight in the brig
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): We don't let you arrest people for being an antag in a previous round so why would we let people arrest for minor shit like "nudity" over multiple rounds
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): I'm overloaded and I have MDs stealing supplies and doing nothing but be naked in the bar?
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): I'm just trying to say that you wouldn't be overloaded if you didn't arrest over minor stuff like that
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): change his name then. I would arrest someone for being naked and abandoning their post no matter what
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): just so happens this goes up 1 level of importance because it's every shift
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): That seems like a really lame way to play, just saying
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): and being a naked that does nothing all shift isn't?
PM: Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer)->Akesson/(Reed Russell): I think you're also missing the point when I say that you're metagrudging someone for not wearing a shirt over multiple rounds
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): i'm not grudging anyone. if you are naked, i brig you
PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): Can you get another admin to handle this please? you've just got me killed making me justify everything
Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer) has banned . Reason: *no key*/(Reed Russell) This will be removed in 1440 minutes.
Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer) has banned akesson. Reason: Akesson/(Reed Russell) This will be removed in 1440 minutes.

[danno]

It was my understanding that public nudity was indeed a minor crime

[bandit]

From Space Law, which isn't official policy but nevertheless:

Minor Crimes: 106. Indecent Exposure. Running around the station naked. The mutual degradation of chasing a naked man down while he screams rape is only worth it on slow shifts.

[danno]

Yeah I'm pretty certain that arresting people for running around naked is legit.

[D&B]

Wouldn't it be metagrudging if they were clothed and arrested for not having clothes?

If they're non clothed they're committing the crime again. He worded it poorly but if he was arrested because of the present charge (nudity) how is it metagrudging?

[Qbopper]

let me preface this by saying that i was a bit frazzled from the previous round where I had to deal with 30 tickets in under half a nhour (on nuke ops) and had to tell the entire server to smarten up, as nearly everyone was involved with some stupid shit - I didn't handle this as well as I could have and that is indeed my bad, and I apologize for it

Admins banning security for doing their job episode.
Neither MD was helping anyone. They were at the bar doing absolutely nothing. This can be evidenced by the fact that I had to help revive a guy who had shurikans inside him, and that nobody helped the half dozen injured people.

the medbay was blown up and using dereliction of duty when their department is vaporized is silly - sure, them not helping people is a fair point, but when medical supplies are limited and your only access to them is gone it's tough to do much more than get in the way (plus they likely didn't even know about this injured guy)

Also, this isn't you "doing your job" because you were the warden and leaving the brig as a warden is just stupid - your job is to process arrested people, not go out and get them

Falsifying ban reason. Never did I say I arrested him simply because he was repeatedly naked. I arrest everyone that is naked, and I treat them equally especially when they have a job and they derelict it to be naked.
I admitted that I arrest for naked no matter what. It just so happens his playstyle of being naked every shift conflicts with mine. I choose to arrest for such "small" reasons because it is such a "small" effort to put on your jumpsuit like any other player on shift.

I don't know how you expected me to interpret

PM: Akesson/(Reed Russell)->Qbopper/(Percy Oppenheimer): dude all he has to do is not be fucking naked every shift.

as anything other than metagrudging. Maybe I was too harsh, but I really don't like to tolerate metagrudging and had just last round had to tell someone off for admitting they were going to do it. Telling me "X does this every shift" is a VERY bad idea because it paints the picture of "I arrested X because I'm tired of him doing this every round"

Not only this, naked/nudity means you also have no ID on, and various other factors that are a headache to security.

You have a point

While I am overloaded, this is a slow shift. Nothing is happening. We're waiting for the shuttle to arrive. It's a slow moving shift with problems that I can deal with.

Then I don't see why you need to bring up being "overloaded", especially when, again, you're not doing your job as the warden and are out arresting people.

Just because you lost your department doesn't mean you derelict your duty to be naked in the bar and do absolutely nothing all shift, nor does it mean you can freely stop and disrupt arrests.

Sure, but punishing someone for a third party interfering seems stupid. Punishing the guy interfering, sure, but I don't think it's the arrestee's fault that someone else tried to intervene

Again, yes I handled this poorly, but I really genuinely believe that gulagging someone for nudity is just moronic, and the ban was mainly applied because it certainly sounded to me like you were taking issue with the player in question because they've done this multiple times across various rounds

Also, when you asked for a new admin to handle the ahelp because you got killed replying to me:

1. I was busy tying up the ban reason but it was eaten and it banned a blank ckey
2. I don't expect immediate responses, dying because you were replying to an ahelp is unfortunate but I'm not going to perma you if you dare to take care of something IC
3. Asking for a new admin over something like that is a good way to irritate the admin dealing with you

So, yeah, I mishandled this, but my main issue (even if I didn't make it clear) was the supposed metagrudging - I think arresting for nudity is pretty dumb (and not gulag worthy) but it's not ban worthy by itself. I think you're not a very good sec player if you're arresting as the warden, either, but again, that's not why the ban was applied.

I'll lift it if people genuinely think I misinterpreted the line about him supposedly metagrudging - i wasn't in a very clear headed state and after the previous round, I was extremely annoyed with poor security (and people griffing the brig) and probably snapped at this

[J_Madison]

That's okay. Everyone has bad rounds. You're forgiven and I don't feel the need to escalate this to feedback or complaint until we have another unfavourable interaction.

Personal player preference. I would use Cargo as a makeshift brig if the brig was gone. I do not commit suicide as a job. If my department was blow up I would sooner immigrate and offer my job's services to another department than suicide or derelict my duty.
None of my security officers were going out to get them. Desperate times desperate measures.

My apologies on the interpretation. What I should have said is "he chooses to be naked every shift, I choose to arrest people for it, he should choose to not go out of his way to commit crime however minor every round for no reason".

None of my security officers were going out to get them. Desperate times desperate measures.

It wasn't his fault. The only punishment he got was the fact that I had to move both the CMO's body, and the interruptee and his body to the brig. Gulag time was unchanged.

Please do keep in mind I formerly did the same gimmick or used my habits to set a double standard for myself. That's why I try to keep everything fair and I use different names and appearances.

My apologies, it's a bad habit from when I was subject to scrutiny and grudging by a now inactive admin. I was instructed to ask for another headmin if I felt pressure was applied unfairly.

You are fine to believe that. I try to fill the roles of managing security, but when I am burdened the gloves are off.

[Qbopper]

Reply was also rushed because I had to leave immediately after your ban and then forgot that I was 5 minutes late for a wbinar I needed to be in, today is a fucking mess, my god

I'll ask someone to lift this for me because I overreacted - as a player I don't necessarily agree with you on some of this stuff, but I'm capable of separating my opinion from what I'm doing as an admin, and looking back I clearly misinterpreted what you were saying regarding the supposed metagrudging

(I'd log on and lift it myself but the webinar is on right now and the only reason I have the time to reply to you right now is technical issues on their end, and they seem to be fixed, so I can't do it myself atm)

[TehSteveo]

Lifted at Qbopper's request.

[J_Madison]

alrighty. thank you very much steveo.

I think we're done here, loose ends tied.

thread can be locked now.