[Armhulen] Ban and note appeal

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:24 am #318076

Byond account and character name: mikeike545, randomname(Don't remember the name I had in this specific round)
Banning admin: Armhulen
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Temp ban, note
Ban reason and length: 8 hours, ordered shuttle when told not to in OOC
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 01:09:41, server time I guess?
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Both, looks like
Your side of the story: I was just sitting in the bridge and some dude teleports in and tells me to buy a shuttle, I actually presumed he was an antag and going to kill me either way so I bought the shit asteroid shuttle for my last meme.
Why you think you should be unbanned: The warning was in OOC. This wasn't like an admin notice which I actually read it was in OOC which for the most part I assume is just shitposting and ignore half the time when I'm not participating in it. I don't care how many times they've said it, it was still in OOC. I don't pay attention to that and it's not fair to presume for me to. They, armhulen and feem, complained 'well, it was at roundstart and everyone complained about it when the server restarted!' but i was tabbed out at that time so that's extra didn't even matter. An admin notice would at least set the program to flash on my task bar. And not only that but I was chastised for picking asteroid when I didn't know that was a bad thing anyway? Like, everyone hears what shuttle is purchased, and they can visibly see where the shuttle is going to be at. If you die from that you pretty much wanted to die. And both I and other captains have picked it before and I've yet to see the rules mention it shouldn't be bought. Why even offer it in a non-emagged state if you're gonna get pissy when captains buy it (I don't know if they're specifically pissy because it might break the server more but one, either feem or armhulen, said it kills people so I presume it wasn't because of that). And when questioned, and I mentioned the fact that they didn't put it in notice, they instead of just admitting that and just giving me a warning they just tried to go 'WELL OOC THOUGH' and banned me anyway. Which I find abhorrent at best.

feem · Post by **feem** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:29 am #318081

An admin announcement was made in addition to substantial amounts of communication in OOC.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:30 am #318082

i'm sorry but if the entire ooc is talking about the glitch that breaks the server and then as the game starts i say don't buy a shuttle, you miss all that? you're actually just dumb.

real ban reason:

Bought a shuttle after we talked about it over and over in ooc saying NOT to do it as it crashes the server, context: AnonymousNow/(AnonymousNow) = "AnonymousNow: I'm guessing that the "round breaks when shuttle is ordered" thing is a still a problem. Badmins, make sure to keep track of people who lost their antagonist status because of this."

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:37 am #318087

No, an announcement wasn't made. The entire OOC prior to the round sure was but that stopped. And again it's... it's still OOC. Like that's not going to catch my attention. People shitpost and meme all the time in OOC. You can be sorry all you want but that doesn't make it right or make sense.
And if you're going to seriously look me in the face and expect me to read OOC for rules I think that'll be it for me. Because that's probably the stupidest thing I've seen on all of basil or sybil.

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:45 am #318090

https://puu.sh/wNc1a/f9385f5248.png
There are your OOC messages, five of them. I already explained how I didn't see any of the pre-round stuff and your roundstart stuff was saying don't do it in OOC. Not seeing an announcement there.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:46 am #318091

right after the round started i said don't do it, you would have been playing the game. incompetence shouldn't let you get out of bans. And even then, I lowered it from 1440 to 480. So there's that

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:48 am #318092

How benevolent. So like Feem told me an admin announcement was made which is a flat out lie for this round, and again the problem is still just I'm being told to read OOC for rules.
Aight I guess.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:50 am #318094

i wasn't there for the previous round's end due to a freeze but feem probably announced it then or something. then again, i'm not feem, so

feem · Post by **feem** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:57 am #318098

I was seriously under the impression that one had been made, but I'm unable to find any logs stating that.

That having been said, I'm also unable to find any logs showing the announcements that Kevinz000 definitely made when he was debugging the issue the prior round. And looking in the code, I can't see where world_announce actually gets logged.

So I retract my statement that the announcement was made, as I'm unable to back it up despite remembering it. It's possible that I'm remembering incorrectly.

This comes back to ordering the asteroid shuttle. Most of the time I agree with you that this works itself out ICly. My reasoning behind the note that I left was admittedly that I thought you had intentionally called the shuttle after being told not to and that, as an extra bonus, you called the meme-is-murder shuttle.

Assuming that your history of play here isn't some kind of colossal error, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and remove the note that I placed. That having been said, I need to ask: if the crew had decided to lynch you for ordering that shuttle -- which is neither unprecedented nor would it be a surprise -- would you have accepted that?

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:02 am #318102

I'm not lifting mine though, we could go on and on about it but if you wanna make a mistake (that could be easily avoided by paying the smallest amount of attention) make sure it's not a server crashing round ruining one. Headmin can step in if they think my judgement here was wrong

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:15 am #318108

Quite simply, I didn't intend to break the server. And again I don't think it's fair frankly to expect me to '''be more aware''' of OOC.
Can't you look at logs and just see some viro/geneticist, (i think i don't remember) teleporting onto the bridge? Like he told me to right before I ordered it because I went right for it the moment he asked, and no I don't remember his name. And I dunno, probably. Not like I have a chance or like to murder people in command. I almost never murder people as captain. I've had people break on the bridge or security with me in there multiple times and I just tell them to leave or stun them because I dislike ending someone elses round when I'm in such a high position. But then again I don't think that many people would have seriously tried. Last time it was a group of like four who broke into the bridge and actually got me down.

feem · Post by **feem** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:42 am #318115

I'm not sure I understand why you'd order the rock'n'engines shuttle in the first place if you're also concerned about removing people from the round when you're captain. I'm also not sure why you'd order that shuttle at the urging of your crew.

I suppose I can see a plausible argument being made in that because the crew was being so noisy about asking you to buy a shuttle, you figured you'd shut them up by ordering the shitty one.

But it still blows my mind that you didn't see or take seriously all the messages stating that ordering shuttles may be related to crashes. It's not that I'm unwilling to believe you, it's just surprising.

Being that it's a temporary ban, and keeping in mind that it is not my ban, I'm not personally in favor of removing it without a headmin ruling.

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:50 am #318118

I mean, I understand but this isn't going to make me look at OOC more this is just an annoyance that makes me dislike your ruling. This won't stop OOC from mostly being shitposting and almost nothing important. I urge you to ensure there's actually an admin notice if something important that needs to be said before jumping to any kind of ban, may it be 1 minute or 1 year.

feem · Post by **feem** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:53 am #318120

I wholeheartedly agree that an admin notice or announcement carries substantially more weight than any bucket of messages in OOC could. I honestly thought that one was made but am unable to find evidence that that was the case due to the way things are logged.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:09 am #318121

You shouldn't ban people for failing to make a really server breaking thing known through the official tools and channels that you guys get as admins. The guy could have been taking a piss while waiting for the next round to start, and because the text was displaced up by round of start blabber and automatic announcements, you're gonna ban him?

Are we gonna just not hse admin announcements anymore and have people sift and dig through ooc post round shitposting to see if another round breaking bug is found?

Post by **Cobby** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:47 am #318130

D&B wrote:You shouldn't ban people for failing to make a really server breaking thing known through the official tools and channels that you guys get as admins. The guy could have been taking a piss while waiting for the next round to start, and because the text was displaced up by round of start blabber and automatic announcements, you're gonna ban him?

Are we gonna just not hse admin announcements anymore and have people sift and dig through ooc post round shitposting to see if another round breaking bug is found?

Well if he didn't exit out an announcement nor an admin notice would have done any good.

However I'm a bit concerned that someone with 2k connections in a head role immediately assumes it is perfectly normal meta-wise for a person to appear with no animation whatsoever, naked, saying "DONT BUY THE SHUTTLE" to think 1) he's an antag so 2) he should really buy that shuttle, asteroid no less. It's the only thing really that doesn't have me saying he needs to be unbanned.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:48 am #318131

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
D&B wrote:You shouldn't ban people for failing to make a really server breaking thing known through the official tools and channels that you guys get as admins. The guy could have been taking a piss while waiting for the next round to start, and because the text was displaced up by round of start blabber and automatic announcements, you're gonna ban him?

Are we gonna just not hse admin announcements anymore and have people sift and dig through ooc post round shitposting to see if another round breaking bug is found?
Well if he didn't exit out an announcement nor an admin notice would have done any good.

However I'm a bit concerned that someone with 2k connections in a head role immediately assumes it is perfectly normal meta-wise for a person to appear with no animation whatsoever, naked, saying "DONT BUY THE SHUTTLE" to think 1) he's an antag so 2) he should really buy that shuttle. It's the only thing really that doesn't have me saying he needs to be unbanned.

your double negatives confuse me but i agree

Post by **Cobby** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:55 am #318132

Armhulen wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
D&B wrote:You shouldn't ban people for failing to make a really server breaking thing known through the official tools and channels that you guys get as admins. The guy could have been taking a piss while waiting for the next round to start, and because the text was displaced up by round of start blabber and automatic announcements, you're gonna ban him?

Are we gonna just not hse admin announcements anymore and have people sift and dig through ooc post round shitposting to see if another round breaking bug is found?
Well if he didn't exit out an announcement nor an admin notice would have done any good.

However I'm a bit concerned that someone with 2k connections in a head role immediately assumes it is perfectly normal meta-wise for a person to appear with no animation whatsoever, naked, saying "DONT BUY THE SHUTTLE" to think 1) he's an antag so 2) he should really buy that shuttle. It's the only thing really that doesn't have me saying he needs to be unbanned.
your double negatives confuse me but i agree

sleepy cobby cannot type well

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:58 am #318133

I assumed from the story in the OP that the naked guy told him to buy a shuttle. If he was warned via spawn in by an admin to not to do so, I agree he could keep the note, but I'm worried about the precedent this sets overall.

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:59 am #318134

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
D&B wrote:You shouldn't ban people for failing to make a really server breaking thing known through the official tools and channels that you guys get as admins. The guy could have been taking a piss while waiting for the next round to start, and because the text was displaced up by round of start blabber and automatic announcements, you're gonna ban him?

Are we gonna just not hse admin announcements anymore and have people sift and dig through ooc post round shitposting to see if another round breaking bug is found?
Well if he didn't exit out an announcement nor an admin notice would have done any good.

However I'm a bit concerned that someone with 2k connections in a head role immediately assumes it is perfectly normal meta-wise for a person to appear with no animation whatsoever, naked, saying "DONT BUY THE SHUTTLE" to think 1) he's an antag so 2) he should really buy that shuttle, asteroid no less. It's the only thing really that doesn't have me saying he needs to be unbanned.

That's a complete misreading of everything I've typed so far but ok.
I didn't... exit out. Do you know what tabbing is it's when you open something like chrome on top. An admin notice would make the icon flash on my taskbar and make me know there's something important to read. Like you apparently didn't my post I guess. I didn't... assume it was normal. What the heck. I also didn't say no animation. I said teleport, as in he had the teleporter, and he said to buy a shuttle not to not buy a shuttle. I also never said naked dunno where that even came from at like, all. Like I dunno what you want me to think when a person teleports into the bridge and tells me to buy a shuttle. Also what does meta have to do with anything

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:01 am #318135

D&B wrote:I assumed from the story in the OP that the naked guy told him to buy a shuttle. If he was warned via spawn in by an admin to not to do so, I agree he could keep the note, but I'm worried about the precedent this sets overall.

the precedent is don't be completely oblivious to what's happening AND OR don't fuck admins over, pick your poison depending on if you think he was malicious or not.

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:07 am #318136

Armhulen wrote:
D&B wrote:I assumed from the story in the OP that the naked guy told him to buy a shuttle. If he was warned via spawn in by an admin to not to do so, I agree he could keep the note, but I'm worried about the precedent this sets overall.
the precedent is don't be completely oblivious to what's happening AND OR don't fuck admins over, pick your poison depending on if you think he was malicious or not.

while also being completely oblivious to reading what i and cobby typed apparently.
what the heck
agreeing to something that is like entirely in every way just a misreading of what i said. cobby's excuse is at least being tired
and still trying to legitimately go 'well read ooc'
and i used to say badmins aren't really a thing

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:09 am #318137

mikeike545 wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
D&B wrote:I assumed from the story in the OP that the naked guy told him to buy a shuttle. If he was warned via spawn in by an admin to not to do so, I agree he could keep the note, but I'm worried about the precedent this sets overall.
the precedent is don't be completely oblivious to what's happening AND OR don't fuck admins over, pick your poison depending on if you think he was malicious or not.
while also being completely oblivious to reading what i and cobby typed apparently.
what the heck
agreeing to something that is like entirely in every way just a misreading of what i said. cobby's excuse is at least being tired
and still trying to legitimately go 'well read ooc'
and i used to say badmins aren't really a thing

that's still being oblivious, i mean someone completely naked jumping in telling you not to do it and you do it anyways with the weird griefy shuttle like, i'm just saying you're being dumb but if you meant to be weird and griefy and ruin the round then that's fine too

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:11 am #318138

yet again no one was naked
where are you guys getting this from
and he said to buy it can no one read
i've said this twice now
what the actual heck is anything anymore oh my god
why couldnt you just leave it at 'oh well im not removing it'
now you've literally started to just make up stuff

Post by **Cobby** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:11 am #318139

mikeike545 wrote:That's a complete misreading of everything I've typed so far but ok.
I didn't... exit out. Do you know what tabbing is it's when you open something like chrome on top. An admin notice would make the icon flash on my taskbar and make me know there's something important to read. Like you apparently didn't my post I guess. I didn't... assume it was normal. What the heck. I also didn't say no animation. I said teleport, as in he had the teleporter, and he said to buy a shuttle not to not buy a shuttle. I also never said naked dunno where that even came from at like, all. Like I dunno what you want me to think when a person teleports into the bridge and tells me to buy a shuttle. Also what does meta have to do with anything

I understand you didn't exit out, which is why a notice or announcement would have done you no good since you were already logged in. If you DID log out then log back in, it would have messaged you upon arrival to not buy the shuttle should they have set a notice.

I also understand he COULD have ahelped you, but he didn't. What I misread was someone told you to buy the shuttle. I had assumed it said NOT buy the shuttle, and that it was from an admin. My apologies.

If a player was just being a memer and it wasn't an admin, Then yeah I think an unban is in order. If anything the person encouraging him to crash the server should of had a spoken to.

Armhulen wrote:
D&B wrote:I assumed from the story in the OP that the naked guy told him to buy a shuttle. If he was warned via spawn in by an admin to not to do so, I agree he could keep the note, but I'm worried about the precedent this sets overall.
the precedent is don't be completely oblivious to what's happening AND OR don't fuck admins over, pick your poison depending on if you think he was malicious or not.

If what he said was true, then you understand that you can have you preferences set to never hear OOC correct? It seems really odd to punish someone for not reading OOC chat when there's a button to remove it from showing up entirely.

This assumes no other announcement was made.

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:15 am #318141

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
mikeike545 wrote:That's a complete misreading of everything I've typed so far but ok.
I didn't... exit out. Do you know what tabbing is it's when you open something like chrome on top. An admin notice would make the icon flash on my taskbar and make me know there's something important to read. Like you apparently didn't my post I guess. I didn't... assume it was normal. What the heck. I also didn't say no animation. I said teleport, as in he had the teleporter, and he said to buy a shuttle not to not buy a shuttle. I also never said naked dunno where that even came from at like, all. Like I dunno what you want me to think when a person teleports into the bridge and tells me to buy a shuttle. Also what does meta have to do with anything
I understand you didn't exit out, which is why a notice or announcement would have done you no good since you were already logged in. If you DID log out then log back in, it would have messaged you upon arrival to not buy the shuttle should they have set a notice.

I also understand he COULD have ahelped you, but he didn't. What I misread was someone told you to buy the shuttle. I had assumed it said NOT buy the shuttle, and that it was from an admin. My apologies.

If a player was just being a memer and it wasn't an admin, Then yeah I think an unban is in order. If anything the person encouraging him to crash the server should of had a spoken to.

Armhulen wrote:
D&B wrote:I assumed from the story in the OP that the naked guy told him to buy a shuttle. If he was warned via spawn in by an admin to not to do so, I agree he could keep the note, but I'm worried about the precedent this sets overall.
the precedent is don't be completely oblivious to what's happening AND OR don't fuck admins over, pick your poison depending on if you think he was malicious or not.
If what he said was true, then you understand that you can have you preferences set to never hear OOC correct? It seems really odd to punish someone for not reading OOC chat when there's a button to remove it from showing up entirely.

This assumes no other announcement was made.

that's exactly not what i said. i said tabbing out as in minimizing the tab after clickign ready. no one said anything about logging in or out what the actual literal fuck???
the guy told me to buy a shuttle. i didnt know a shuttle would crash the server

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:15 am #318142

And on top of all of this is sybil is still having problems needing to be restarted so I have trouble believing it was purely the shuttle.

Post by **Cobby** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:18 am #318143

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote: Well if he didn't exit out an announcement nor an admin notice would have done any good.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote: I understand you didn't exit out

I AM SAYING AN ADMIN NOTICE OR AN ANNOUNCEMENT WOULD HAVE DONE NO GOOD BECAUSE YOU DID NOT LOG OUT.

Only an ahelp would have helped because it flashes your start bar and sends a sound, which he did not do.

Now we are even on misreading :^)

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:27 am #318146

If what he said was true, then you understand that you can have you preferences set to never hear OOC correct? It seems really odd to punish someone for not reading OOC chat when there's a button to remove it from showing up entirely.

this is true but he posted to me (and in this thread) a picture of him with ooc enabled, he was tabbed out sure whatever but i said in ooc not to buy a shuttle right when the round started (as put there, too)

if he was still not there for roundstart then there was nothing i could have done to warn him at that point, i'm not omniscient and i thought everyone yapped about it enough to know. Pay attention etc etc.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:28 am #318147

I should have totally noticed though, not that it would have helped in any way, shape or form in this case

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:33 am #318148

That is entirely my fault then, I've swore I've seen admin notices before in the middle of a round.
But alright then maybe a warning was in issue because I already said I didn't read OOC and wasn't here for roundstart anyway and fairly sure I said this to either you or feem during the ahelpings and I definitely said it right up here. And regardless to any of this is that I wouldn't have if another player hadn't teleported in and told me to and me being confused just went ahead and did it.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:36 am #318149

you know what?

fuck that dude i'm gonna find the logs of him saying that and dayban that faggot.

Post by **Cobby** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:37 am #318150

Armhulen wrote:
If what he said was true, then you understand that you can have you preferences set to never hear OOC correct? It seems really odd to punish someone for not reading OOC chat when there's a button to remove it from showing up entirely.
this is true but he posted to me (and in this thread) a picture of him with ooc enabled, he was tabbed out sure whatever but i said in ooc not to buy a shuttle right when the round started (as put there, too)

if he was still not there for roundstart then there was nothing i could have done to warn him at that point, i'm not omniscient and i thought everyone yapped about it enough to know. Pay attention etc etc.

I understand it's a shitty situation

I don't understand why he has to nail a ban for it if it wasn't malicious. The person encouraging him should have copped this ban.

My point regarding the OOC option is that if you can turn it on/off then it's probably not the best place to lay down admin ultimatums with that being your only method of communication.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:50 am #318153

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
If what he said was true, then you understand that you can have you preferences set to never hear OOC correct? It seems really odd to punish someone for not reading OOC chat when there's a button to remove it from showing up entirely.
this is true but he posted to me (and in this thread) a picture of him with ooc enabled, he was tabbed out sure whatever but i said in ooc not to buy a shuttle right when the round started (as put there, too)

if he was still not there for roundstart then there was nothing i could have done to warn him at that point, i'm not omniscient and i thought everyone yapped about it enough to know. Pay attention etc etc.
I understand it's a shitty situation

I don't understand why he has to nail a ban for it if it wasn't malicious. The person encouraging him should have copped this ban.

My point regarding the OOC option is that if you can turn it on/off then it's probably not the best place to lay down admin ultimatums with that being your only method of communication.

i like this i'll unban him and dayban the loser for doing it

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:55 am #318156

i can't connect right now someone undo it

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:03 am #318158

Alright. My fault for being belligerent. I thought this was going to be turning on me. Thanks.

Post by **Armhulen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:14 am #318159

What do you mean by turning on you?

mikeike545 · Post by **mikeike545** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:21 am #318160

Just like pinning it entirely on me.

Post by **Cobby** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:07 pm #318301

Glad to see this all worked out.