[KingLouisXIV] Cuboos - 15 day ban for a resolved issue

[Cuboos]

Byond account and character name: Account: Cuboos, Character: Timmy The Toucher
Banning admin: KingLouisXIV
Ban reason and length: "Kidnapped a random crewmember as a non-antag clown named "Timmy the Toucher" Stripped him down, cuffed and muzzled him before trying to "play dress-up" with the victim by putting a sex clown suit on him. This behavior is blurring the line with creepiness, on top of the non-antagonistic kidnapping. Did not show apology or understanding as to why this was wrong, only that "he has gotten away with it before." Length is 15 days.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2014-10-18 17:23:45
Your side of the story: I did indeed kidnap a crew member and place cable cuffs and a muzzle over him and called him "Mr. Bimbles", then brought him to the back stage and attempt to put a sexy clown suit on him. And AT FIRST i thought i was justified because i had done it several times in the past with no complaints by any other "victims" or contacts from Admins. I had assumed that because of no previous action taken and the fact that i never actually did anything sexual to the targets. In all previous cases i was apprehended by security (which was the intention, to attract security, same logic with naming yourself Sliplocker Weldspace and dragging around a welded locker.) Usually they seemed to find it funny, judging by their OOC comments at the end of the rounds.

How ever, i did acknowledge understanding of the situation while i didn't give a formal apology i did agree not to do it again. I figured that would have been good enough, the conversation ended after that and i played as the clown after a while. Although i did have to suddenly leave to take care of something in real life, there was a long pause before i had too though, so i assumed the issue was over. If they wanted to further discuss it with me then i do apologies for that and that i didn't announce that i had to leave.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
It appeared to have been resolved during the game, and 15 days is WAY too much for not actually breaking the rules.

[KingLouisXIV]

Let's start out here: This matter was not resolved the way you had assumed, and while I apologize for the fact that you weren't being totally informed, this does not absolve you of any guilt or wrongdoing. Now, moving on to your reasoning behind the ban length and "not breaking any rules."

I forget who the player who adminhelped this was, since it was pretty cut and dry that you weren't an antagonist, could be potentially getting very creepy with this player, and didn't have any real right to be holding him in cuffs and a muzzle in the theater back room during a Nuclear Emergency round. I picked it up and began asking you about what you were doing and trying to explain to you that what you were doing is wrong. Just after, HBL (Who is our current head admin) asked if he could step in. He did, and also explained to you that what you were doing is wrong for three main reasons:

- Kidnapping, especially when it includes cuffs and a muzzle (so that the player can't do anything until you decide to release them / get careless) is not okay as a non-antagonist.

- This toes the line with our "No forced ERP" rule. Whatever intention you may have had, the player became uncomfortable with the situation due to you "playing dress-up" with him as a clown named Timmy the Toucher. It's our job to prevent this behavior in the first place, and to curb anything that looks like it may lead to that. In better terms, your actions were not consensual and it was treated as such. Keep in mind that forced ERP will actually earn you a permaban, and not a paltry 15 days.

- Your actions were not contributing to the fun of other players or the round at hand, only yourself. Since you were only carrying out actions that were more or less harmful or inhibiting to other players, that is not behavior that is acceptable to us here.

It seems to me that as much as you might understand the reasoning behind why you were spoken to and banned, you don't appear to actually believe you are in the wrong. While we take all of the rules on this server seriously, you had the appearance of coming very close to breaking one that we're extremely strict about. I'd like to hear other feedback from admins up the ranks from me, but I don't see any reason to lift this ban at this time.

[elyina]

After a discussion on #banbus, the duration has been reduced to 3 days.

Transcript:

Spoiler:

[15:12] <hotelbravolima> Hello.
[15:12] <hotelbravolima> Normally I'd ask for your case but I remember it.
[15:13] <Cuboos> So, can we reach an appeal?
[15:14] <hotelbravolima> What do you think of "Your actions were not contributing to the fun of other players or the round at hand, only yourself. Since you were only carrying out actions that were more or less harmful or inhibiting to other players, that is not behavior that is acceptable to us here." ?
[15:14] <hotelbravolima> That's from Louis' answer to your appeal.
[15:16] <hotelbravolima> Do you get why, as a simple clown prank, things went way too far?
[15:16] <Cuboos> I figured he found it amusing until the admins had contacted me.
[15:16] <hotelbravolima> He didn't, he was legitimately creeped out.
[15:16] <Cuboos> Yes, for the hundredth time, i get why.
[15:17] <Cuboos> I'm not trying to be rude here, but i've been asked, "do you understand why we feel this broke the rules" by a hundred different people now and i've explained over and over again, "yes, i get why"
[15:18] <oranges> You'll have to forgive everyone, they're very touchy about sexual issues after some rather serious problems in earlier days
[15:19] <hotelbravolima> You'd be amazed what people can do on pixelized spacemengs.
[15:19] <Cuboos> And i understand that, i was just under the impression that people didn't feel this got close to violating the rule 8 because no one complained before, in fact they usually expressed amusment.
[15:20] <Cuboos> Dude, i make money off SL, i know the lengths desperate people will go to...
[15:20] <hotelbravolima> KingLouis isn't here, he's the one who applied the ban, but he's also a trialmin.
[15:20] <hotelbravolima> elyina what do you think?
[15:20] <oranges> It's always funny until it's not
[15:20] <%elyina> i think the problem is with the duration of the ban
[15:20] <%elyina> it's 2 weeks
[15:21] <Cuboos> For what KingLous pretty much said, "didn't break the rules just got uncomfortably close to"
[15:21] <hotelbravolima> What would be a more fitting length?
[15:21] <%elyina> 2-3 days would be a good middle ground
[15:22] <Cuboos> Personally i think the ban should be lifted... cause i didn't break a rule, i just got close. But if i had to chose... 3 days? i've already been gone for two...
[15:22] <%elyina> you did break a rule
[15:22] <%elyina> rule 1
[15:23] <%elyina> kidnapping someone is a direct detriment to their round, that combined with the sexual creepiness goes far beyond the line of rule 1
[15:23] <%elyina> but i think you thoroughly understand now that no form of sexual creepiness is tolerated on the server
[15:23] <Cuboos> Then why was it expressed as, "Didn't break any rules, just got uncomfortably close"
[15:23] <oranges> Rule 0 is designed to cover cases where people are toeing the line on other rules, hence trying to escape a ban with "I didn't break a rule, I just got close" is bad
[15:23] <%elyina> that sounds like miscommunication
[15:25] <Cuboos> Well fine then, i've made it clear i have a better understanding of what is and isn't tolerated (although i think how the rules apply to the clown are a bit vague) I'll settle for a 3 day ban.
[15:25] <Cuboos> minus the part about sexual stuff
[15:25] <%elyina> my main question to you is if you understand why sexual creepiness isn't tolerated now
[15:25] <Cuboos> yeah
[15:26] <%elyina> a repeat of this behavior will likely result in nuking from orbit
[15:26] <%elyina> the name "timmy the toucher" was also not appropriate
[15:26] <Cuboos> I've learned my lession
[15:26] <Cuboos> oh come on!
[15:26] <Cuboos> can't i atleast keep that?
[15:26] <hotelbravolima> The sexual creepiness line is one of those things where the administration will often feel (and I do too) that if you approach the line you've gone too far.
[15:26] <hotelbravolima> Nope.
[15:27] <hotelbravolima> New clown gimmick please
[15:27] <Cuboos> luckily it isn't my only one...
[15:27] <hotelbravolima> elyina, are you on the server right now?
[15:27] <%elyina> yes
[15:36] <hotelbravolima> then go ahead and change the thing if you haven't already.
[15:36] <%elyina> okay, it's done