[MisterStaub] WeeYakk - Ruining Admin Event

[WeeYakk]

Byond account and character name: WeeYakk - Heather North

Banning admin: MisterStaub - Still unsure why this is needed twice, it's already in the title.

Ban reason and length: "Broke into a Trading-Vessel i spawned in as an event twice as a non antag even after i told him to Stop. Has multiple previous bans for greytiding."

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2014-11-02 00:49:32 (server time) according to Byond. 10/25/14 around 1PMish EST in times that make sense.

Your side of the story: Be assistant. Some kind of event is going on where a trade vessel docks with the station. I try to get in on that, but the shuttle only has room for one person to trade at a time and I can not trust the line of people pouring into the arrivals area to not kill each other or fuck this up somehow. Seeing as how most admins take steps to prevent their events from being fucked I thought it would be okay to break down the wooden walls that replaced the normal unbreakable shuttle walls and try to cheat the event. To my surprise I actually am able to break in. I snag a pulse rifle and get a peek at all the cool traitor gear, wizard stuff, death squad stuff, and OP items galore inside. Staub PMs me telling me breaking into stuff as a non-antag is bad, by the time I get it it's already too late. One of the traders takes a pulse rifle and shoots me into crit. I'm dragged off to medbay and healed by like three other people. One of them drops the pulse rifle for me. I pick up the gun and mention something about turning it in to security when the common channel has a bunch of messages calling for my blood and the return of the pulse rifle. As I leave medbay someone begins to chase me, I hide in a disposal bin in the bar and lose them. At this point I'm pretty sure I'm going to get validhunted and since I had assumed that an admin was behind this event that any validhunters would get away with it. I figure I might as well go out with a bang if I'm gonna die, I run back to arrivals with pulse rifle in hand and destroy the rest of the walls with the pulse rifle. I only hurt one person directly as he stepped in front of me but by opening all the walls on the ship the natural looting instinct of the people waiting in line for the trader kicked in and dozens of people swarmed the ship looting everything. The traders began to fire on the looters and at some point ended up dying after killing or critting four people.

As it turns out the traders were players and not admins and I legit feel bad for ruining their event present

Why you think you should be unbanned: I don't, I'm willing to bite the bullet on this one, but think that the length is a bit much. I feel the length of the ban is because of my supposed history, as mentioned in the ban reason, but the last time I can remember myself getting in trouble for that was when this happened and that was over a year ago, and I made a promise to never do another assistant cabal with the goal of ruling the station from the shadows since then. Also it was kind of funny.

[firecage]

I was one of the people killed.

WeeYakk basically singlehandedly ruined the entire event, especially when he destroyed nearly all of the trader shuttles walls. And was in the end the caus all of our deaths. Long story short, entire bloody round was ruined and went down the drain.

[Aranclanos]

I was observing, you were also answering adminhelps like if you were proud of what were you doing and taunting the admin. It was really shit and sad, I wouldn't lift it.

[Staub]

The very first thing you did when the trader arrived was rush to one side of the shuttle and immediatly deconstruct walls to get the pulse rifle inside. I warned you not to do so again afterwards. Then you broke in again and utterly disregarded my warning. You had previous bans for greytiding and you've shown that you're ready to do the same thing you got banned for multiple times again. Im not going to lift this ban.

[WeeYakk]

May I see these previous bans that prove that greytiding is a thing I consistently do? I remember a whole two times I was banned for it, one of which was a cdb ban that may have been lifted. Those two times were also both over a year ago.

[Staub]

06-Jun-2013 | Banned - Greytiding, holding about half the secforce in glass cells, naked. I could have understand not releasing the HoS, since you had found proof on him he was a syndie, but the rest didn't deserve it. ~laharlmontgommery

13-Jun-2013 | Banned - Wared- Took part in a war against sec orchestrated by the chaplain, who they believed to be a traitor, chose to aid the chaplain in using weapons stollen from the armory to attack officers and generally act like a greytider with numerous others. ~cdb

Them being over a year ago doesnt make them nonexistant. And i never implied that you consistently greytide.

Edit: I'll admit that at first i did not notice them being over a year old, but that doesnt change the core issue. You've still ruined a players round despite having been warned not to after you tried it as soon as the event started.

[Hibbles]

Let's get through to the heart of the matter. Rule 1 is Don't Be a Jerk, and by every account I can see, you were an Extinction-Level Jerk Meteor hitting this round and wiping out all of the dinosaurs. Do you disagree with that?

Also as an aside, admins basically always try to enlist as many players as they can for their events whenever it's possible. We highly prefer NOT to include other admins and basically NEVER give our own selves the kill-y roles like the big shooty space marines or pirates. Remember all the times in OOC where I ask for volunteers? This is one of the reasons it is literally not even slightly more okay to ruin an admin event than a normal round and you shouldn't feel justified in doing it.

EDIT: But it being a year ago does in fact matter if you're going to pump up the ban length due to history of greytide. If that history is, well, history, and it's over, as in, it's no longer happening, why punish them extra for it now?

[WeeYakk]

Let's get through to the heart of the matter. Rule 1 is Don't Be a Jerk, and by every account I can see, you were an Extinction-Level Jerk Meteor hitting this round and wiping out all of the dinosaurs. Do you disagree with that?

100% agreed. I broke rule one and violated the new policy on greytiding as it was in Robustin's last incident. I mentioned in the op that I'm willing to take my lumps, it's just the length of it that I take issue with.

Also as an aside, admins basically always try to enlist as many players as they can for their events whenever it's possible. We highly prefer NOT to include other admins and basically NEVER give our own selves the kill-y roles like the big shooty space marines or pirates. Remember all the times in OOC where I ask for volunteers? This is one of the reasons it is literally not even slightly more okay to ruin an admin event than a normal round and you shouldn't feel justified in doing it.

I'm used to trader events like the ones Jmod did. The traders were usually always admins in those and their goal was to introduce chaos to the station to end the round sooner. If someone chose not to trade the admin running the event would either have precautions to stop thieves and miscreants or allow them to get away and see what happens.

This was not like those events apparently and I didn't listen to Staub after he told me to stop. Lesson learned.

[Subtle]

While I have no outside information regarding this ban, and perhaps WeeYakk was out-of-line for taking such a harsh route...

I really must protest a ban being placed on the grounds of it ruining an admin-event. We're encouraged to test these things locally and, in general, prepare for the possibility that players may manipulate our changes to the game in ways we couldn't foresee. The burden is on us as Administrators to prevent "events" from spiraling out of control due to these oversights. Once we start blaming the players for their reactions it's one step closer to Goon-tier "events" that function closer to ban-baiting than anything which improves a round. If the shuttle had legitimate wooden walls instead of reskinned shuttle-walls or unbreakable ones, this is kind of a given.

WeeYakk was inconsiderate and ruined the round of several players for laughs. A violation of rule one, certainly, and perhaps indeed deserving of a ban.

I just really hope this isn't cited in the future as a reason for Admins to impact the round and then ban players who* play counter to the spirit of that "event."

[WeeYakk]

13-Jun-2013 | Banned - Wared- Took part in a war against sec orchestrated by the chaplain, who they believed to be a traitor, chose to aid the chaplain in using weapons stollen from the armory to attack officers and generally act like a greytider with numerous others. ~cdb

Them being over a year ago doesnt make them nonexistant. And i never implied that you consistently greytide.

That's the cdb ban I mentioned earlier. I would have appealed this if it were longer than a few hours. iirc I mentioned how dumb this ban was a few months after the fact when an admin was offering to post people's notes for them in OOC one day and was told there was no way to remove or appeal notes.

Usually when history is used against someone in a ban it implies the behavior is consistent when this is a whole one legitimate isolated incident in my notes.

[Pandarsenic]

Why would you spawn Pulse Rifles and then expect people not to use Pulse Rifles?

[Hibbles]

Why was this locked and put into Resolved? I don't see anything approaching a resolution from the banning admin, ely, me, or SoS. In fact, there seemed to be ongoing issues of discussion.

[Staub]

Even ignoring the previous bans, what you did was clearly done with ill intent and ended up ruining several peoples rounds with the whole shop getting raided and several dangerous items getting out. I stand by not lifting this ban.

[WeeYakk]

Even ignoring the previous bans,

You're not ignoring them if they're in the ban reason. If we were ignoring them the ban would be over by now.

what you did was clearly done with ill intent and ended up ruining several peoples rounds with the whole shop getting raided and several dangerous items getting out. I stand by not lifting this ban.

Was that not the end game? Were we not supposed to receive those items after trading? Did you trust the crew to obtain these items and not engage in shuttle call inducing fuckery?

I was a dick for not listening to you in ahelps and ruining the event for the trader players but I did not ruin the entire round. I did not tell people to loot the shuttle and I did not tell them to attack the traders. They did that entirely of their own volition and frankly that better fits the definition of greytide than what I did.

EDIT: Will this ban prevent me from voting in headmin elections?

[Antonkr]

with the whole shop getting raided and several dangerous items getting out.

This is the part where you are wrong.

It is YOUR responsibility to ensure that items do not get out, especially shit like pulse rifles. Good tip is to not bring them into the round at all. They are completely broken, and are shit 9/10 times.

I really dislike this ban, and cannot stand for it what so ever. It is up to YOU to take control of things like this. Obviously events do not always go right, shit happens. Hell I accidently spawned narsie once and didn't realize for 15 minutes while still trial. Blaming players for it is really not appropriate. Space Station 13 is an open ended game, not Railroad Simulator 2014 MLG RAILZZ Edition. If you make an admin event, you should expect people to react to it, and expect the worst possibilities, and take that into account when spawning in items and people.

EDIT: After rereading this I can kinda agree with this ban but not really the 1 week part, especially due to the admin conversation that did happen between yakk and staub.

[bandit]

Oh christ, I remember this round now. I was the AI. While the guy who broke down the walls WAS the inciting person, the round was pretty much total chaos and WeeYakk was not the only contributor.

That said, I also don't really think the admins should be blamed because if I remember correctly wooden walls are fairly new. If I recall correctly there might also have been a reinforced table, so tableclimbing might have been possible (this could be wrong, it's hard to see into the shuttle as AI). Either way there are more ways to get onto a shuttle.

That said, as I see it the point where this tips from "being shitty" to "being banworthy" on WeeYakk's part is:

At this point I'm pretty sure I'm going to get validhunted and since I had assumed that an admin was behind this event that any validhunters would get away with it. I figure I might as well go out with a bang if I'm gonna die

It's like getting a wand of death in wiz as non-survivor, or reading WGW. You're gonna get validhunted. But you can't retaliate by going Rambo on everyone.

[Antonkr]

Few points came up from adminbus discussion that occurred from this in defense of the ban:
1) Yakk did indeed not listen to what staub had to say, and left rather snarky comments in his adminhelps.
2) He did ruin the round of several people violating rule 1.
3) Argument that players shouldn't break into places fnr, similar to how breaking into the armory just for shits and giggles can be bannable

The biggest reason it seems for the length of the ban was the first point. Yakk did not listen to staub and proceeded to do what he did. If he was not warned prior then I would say I'd be inclined to say the ban was not appropriate, but in this situation it indeed was.