[creationpro] 2uBz3r0 - Permabanned without a single message

[SUBZERO]

Byond account and character name: 2uBz3r0 / Kayla Kawaii
Banning admin: creationpro
Ban reason and length: Metagaming (LOL?) PERMABAN
Time ban was placed: 12/3/14 06:27:21 UTC

Your side of the story:
Well uhh i don't even know what to say here. I was beating the shit out of some windows with the other cultists and then I was permad. I didn't receive a single message from any administrator and I've never seen a character called "Dread redshirt" in my life.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
Why was I banned in the first place?

[CreationPro]

We have watched you walk around the station the entire round, with your buddy arming you, hunting the cult. I'm not gonna buy it that you just randomly transferred to sec and he randomly decided to trust you with his life and arm you up. That's not the first time you've been doing that, too.

[SUBZERO]

We have watched you walk around the station the entire round, with your buddy arming you, hunting the cult. I'm not gonna buy it that you just randomly transferred to sec and he randomly decided to trust you with his life and arm you up. That's not the first time you've been doing that, too.

We have watched you walk around the station the entire round, with your buddy arming you, hunting the cult.

So you observed me, a security officer, following around the head of security (at their request) killing cultists and you're telling me this made you think "metagaming". Not only did you assume i was metagaming based on loose, even laughable assumptions, but instead of messaging me and speaking about it you immediately permaban me.

I'm not gonna buy it that you just randomly transferred to sec and ...

Am i supposed to be filling out some sort of paperwork whenever i feel like trying out a different job position? I wasn't aware TG had devolved into some sort of fascist regime where people need to speak to admins about every move they make IC.

he randomly decided to trust you with his life and ...

The HoP ensured I was implanted before i was given the status of a security officer. After being implanted I was armed up and dressed, then i returned to the HoP to get the title on my ID changed.

... and arm you up

The head of security giving one of his officers a weapon...... "THATS DEFINITELY METAGAMING TO ME" - creationpro


Please pardon my rudeness, but I'm really not enthused about being permabanned, without even a single message, when i have done absolutely nothing wrong.

[Ramona Faust]

After seeing the logs from your thread and the fact that we were both permabanned with absolutely no proof of us doing anything wrong, I think you and I should make an admin complaint about this guy.

Eh, seems like a waste of time too be honest; I'm getting a strong ciclejerk vibe from this place based on what just went down, at the very least maybe we should petition for a headmin to weigh in on this with logs from past rounds we've been in, where they themselves can read the countless hours of communication we've had in game.

"PostThis post was deleted by NikNakFlak on Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:14 am.
Reason: Not involved" -- The two people accused of metagaming are not involved in their same accusations, but are allegedly involved in metagaming? LOL

[SUBZERO]

After seeing the logs from your thread and the fact that we were both permabanned with absolutely no proof of us doing anything wrong, I think you and I should make an admin complaint about this guy.

Eh, seems like a waste of time too be honest; I'm getting a strong ciclejerk vibe from this place based on what just went down, at the very least maybe we should petition for a headmin to weigh in on this with logs from past rounds we've been in, where they themselves can read the countless hours of communication we've had in game.

"PostThis post was deleted by NikNakFlak on Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:14 am.
Reason: Not involved" -- The two people accused of metagaming are not involved in their same accusations, but are allegedly involved in metagaming? LOL

At first when i read "I'm getting a strong ciclejerk vibe from this place based on what just went down" I raised an eyebrow, but after seeing two of our posts being deleted under the pretense of being "not involved" I am starting to feel the same way.

[Timbrewolf]

A few admins were online at the time, scanning your connection logs and in-round activities.

I think it's quite telling that both of you even managed to make your appeals at the same time. Within 15 minutes of eachother.

At first when i read "I'm getting a strong ciclejerk vibe from this place based on what just went down" I raised an eyebrow, but after seeing two of our posts being deleted under the pretense of being "not involved" I am starting to feel the same way.

It's enough to say "I don't know that person" and leave it at that. You shouldn't be cross-posting things like

"Hey here's my ckey add me on byond messenger " in FNR.

[SUBZERO]

A few admins were online at the time, scanning your connection logs and in-round activities.

I think it's quite telling that both of you even managed to make your appeals at the same time. Within 15 minutes of eachother.

At first when i read "I'm getting a strong ciclejerk vibe from this place based on what just went down" I raised an eyebrow, but after seeing two of our posts being deleted under the pretense of being "not involved" I am starting to feel the same way.

It's enough to say "I don't know that person" and leave it at that. You shouldn't be cross-posting things like

"Hey here's my ckey add me on byond messenger " in FNR.

I was just permabanned for absolutely no reason, without even a single message and you're trying to tell me that because I immediately came on the forums to protest, that I'm being suspicious...

I'm quite interested in seeing those connections logs, I'm certain i played a few rounds before i even realized ramona was on.

[Timbrewolf]

I take that back, we recently banned two other players for this within the last week and I mistook you two for them. I was not present for this. My apologies, I've made a mistake.

[NikNakFlak]

First, You have an alternate account of h4ru. All of the bans are mine. I regularly adminned on artyom back when it was up and you played there a fair amount. The interesting part is the other guy that was banned along with you for metacommunication has an alternate account called Irim4free. Now, the really interesting part is I put in a note about potential metacomms between you two even on those accounts way back on artyom, months ago. That sure is an odd coincidence...
Dread will read this thread so I feel no need to also post in the other thread concerning him.

[Ramona Faust]

First, You have an alternate account of h4ru. All of the bans are mine. I regularly adminned on artyom back when it was up and you played there a fair amount.

His past history has nothing to do with me, nor am I familiar with it.

The interesting part is the other guy that was banned along with you for metacommunication has an alternate account called Irim4free.

So what does this have to do with anything? Other than outing me for having vivacious hobbies.

Now, the really interesting part is I put in a note about potential metacomms between you two even on those accounts way back on artyom, months ago. That sure is an odd coincidence...
Dread will read this thread so I feel no need to also post in the other thread concerning him.

So you saw two people interacting with each other in the past, on a game with the same 60 people consistently playing it at any given time and made a note about their IC friendship? What relevance does that have here? How many months ago was this? Obviously it was a non-issue then if the two of us have been playing since for this amount of time, I didn't even know what this kids Ckey was until these threads. Just because I enjoy the players play-style and personality, and that we apparently tend to gravitate to each other when using persistent character names instead of randoms, is not evidence of metacommunication.

There have been months between my using of that key and interacting with a, "Kayla Kawaii" so I couldn't even tell you what character they were back on h4ru and I'm stunned by your near perfect recollection of it. Unless an obscure note from months ago is enough basis to trigger some type of photogenic memory where you're able to perfectly recall the minute details of those rounds.

Rule 6 - Persistent character relationships are acceptable, so long as they’re roleplayed out every round. Wordlessly assisting your OOC friends (or harming your OOC foes) ICly is NOT cool and will be addressed harshly. Roleplaying out your interactions will help you stay on the right side of the rules. How much or how little of previous “shifts” your character recalls is up to their discretion, with the caveat that being a known traitor doesn’t persist past the round it occurred in.

There's plenty of roleplay in any of the chance encounters we have, as that's all there potentially can be considering we have no OOC communication whatsoever.

[NikNakFlak]

It was involving an incident where you wordlessly assisted him as an antag and when he died, you transplanted his brain into the body of the research director. In other words, I believe you are both lying. You were placed on metacommunication watch and two separate accounts that administration believed to be unrelated.

[Ramona Faust]

It was involving an incident where you wordlessly assisted him as an antag and when he died, you transplanted his brain into the body of the research director. In other words, I believe you are both lying.

I honestly can't recall this too well: If it's what I believe it to be, it was the round I was in R&D, walked out and saw someone being murdered with an energy sword right in the open. So obviously, I then proceeded to fight with the RD and kill him, based on my sense of humor, I probably thought it would be hilarious to identity swap them at the time. Do you happen to have logs of this event? As I've stated, I can't recall it too well. Obviously it wasn't an issue then, because there were no bans placed and no follow up done, unless you're going to count that isolated incident from all the way back on Arytom, months ago, as pertinent information now.

You were placed on metacommunication watch and two separate accounts that administration believed to be unrelated.

They believed it to be unrelated because they were, this can toe in line with my "grasping at straws" comment in my own permaban appeal thread. It really saddens me that you're so confident in your opinion of us lying; Why? Have players jaded you so much in the past that you choose to link things from months ago and shoot down people out of some kind of PTSD mistrust of your own playerbase?

[NikNakFlak]

I did extensive log diving on the matter and opted to place a note with implicit instructions to watch you both closely. There wasn't enough evidence based upon a single round. Note, this was the first time you both came on the radar for metacomms. Both of your accounts connected for the last time on the same day and then later, instead of using the same accounts, you guys both chose to use new accounts? Admins deal with a lot of metacommunicators and quite frankly, you story looks BS

[CreationPro]

Not buying your guys' stories. Don't think anyone will, we've seen you help each other out a lot.

[Ramona Faust]

I did extensive log diving on the matter and opted to place a note with implicit instructions to watch you both closely. There wasn't enough evidence based upon a single round.

That's fair, I'm glad no evidence since then - months ago (excluding this incident) - was seen, as I've been protesting there most definitely is none.

Both of your accounts connected for the last time on the same day and then later, instead of using the same accounts, you guys both chose to use new accounts?

I have a multitude of different accounts I use for different byond games and servers, half the time there are long stints of me not playing, then I forget the information to those accounts and I just abandon them all together. I can't explain *their* reasoning, nor can I speak for them in regard to switching, but mine was most likely to swap to another name, one that I'm known on for a different game. (I play a lot of the animu games) I have severe social anxiety after being molested by my father as a child, and don't like to use specific names for too long, out of an irrational fear of being judged when I'm relatively new to a community and unsure how well I'll do within a certain gaming platform. : (

Admins deal with a lot of metacommunicators and quite frankly, you story looks BS

I'm really upset you feel this way, it's 100% the truth. I was really enjoying my time on this server, up until this incident.

Not buying your guys' stories. Don't think anyone will, we've seen you help each other out a lot.

We've made a strong friendship in game, I see PLENTY of players do the same exact thing facing no scrutiny. Everything we do can be seen through in game chats and logs, there is always persistent communication and like what I just quoted above, there is even a specific stipulation about IC friendships being okay as long as there is consistent RP interaction - there is, check the logs, look through the logs I posted on my thread, constant communication not only to ourselves but to the other sec force.

Edit: http://pastebin.com/gZAbbbUX
Paste bin with the logs of the round we were banned in, in case you missed them or willfully chose not to read them.

[Ramona Faust]

irrelevant rehashing, flat our insinuating we're lying

It's a good thing everything is logged, so you can actually look at the communication. Or even that pastebin I posted above, from the round we were banned in, countless logs of us communicating - there is never not a time where there's no in game communication. There is only an IC friendship here, there is no meta-communication taking place.

Here's just a small snip of it, but there's communication the entirety of the round.

Ramona Faust says, "You're promoted"
Steve Mic says, "Arighty"
Ramona Faust says, "To CE"
Jacob Wolff says, "wow"
Kayla Kawaii says, "Steve"
Jacob Wolff says, "thanks"
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the box.
Steve Mic asks, "yeah?"
Kayla Kawaii has thrown Steve Mic's ID Card (Security Officer).
Ramona Faust has thrown Michael Cariello's ID Card (Chief Engineer).
Kayla Kawaii puts the box into the backpack.
Ramona Faust says, "put on the ID"
Steve Mic says, "Thanks"
Ramona Faust says, "Everyone"
[Common] Rob Ust says, "borg"
Kayla Kawaii asks, "shall we Ramona?"
Ramona Faust says, "They have an emitter."
Kayla Kawaii says, "Cargo"
[Common] Rob Ust says, "coem to medbay"
[Security] Tyra Shanks asks, "Is Daisy Holmes the warden?"
Ramona Faust says, "Lets go to cargo"
OOC: Edwarduino: Quartermaster here, How do I unlock crate?
[Common] EAGLE-7 states, "Yes"
[Common] Rob Ust says, "NOW"
[Security] Ramona Faust says, "Yes"
Ramona Faust says, "Yes"
[Security] Steve Mic says, "I think she's the detective"
[Common] Mateo Leech says, "Okay, so the Hop took all the surgery tools away"
[Common] David Gayfer says, "SEC"
Kayla Kawaii fires the taser gun!
Edward Uino is hit by an electrode in the head!
Kayla Kawaii puts the taser gun into the backpack.
You fire the energy gun!
You fire the energy gun!
Elias Greenwood is hit by an electrode in the left arm!
[Common] David Gayfer says, "BY ENTRY SHUTTLE"
OOC: BoboTheEpic: tgstation13.org/wiki
Elias Greenwood stammers, "D-D-Dan-n-ng-g-g-g"
Elias Greenwood has been stunned with the stunbaton by Ramona Faust!
[Common] David Gayfer says, "CULTISTS"
Elias Greenwood says, "Somebody set us up the bomb"
Ramona Faust is trying to put handcuffs on Elias Greenwood!
OOC: Ecnar: that's the one
You handcuff Elias Greenwood.
Elias Greenwood exclaims, "We aren't the cult!"
Access Denied
Access Denied
Ramona Faust tries to remove Elias Greenwood's Elias Greenwood's ID Card (Cargo Technician).
Elias Greenwood exclaims, "A wraith came in here!"
Jed Woolery says, "There ya go."
Edward Uino says, "He has done nothing"
Kayla Kawaii asks, "why do you guys have an emitter?"
Ramona Faust says, "They have an emitter"
Edward Uino asks, "what is going on?"
Security Cyborg-486 states, "you will not be harmed."
Ramona Faust has thrown Elias Greenwood's ID Card (Cargo Technician).
Elias Greenwood says, "To deal with the cult"
Kayla Kawaii tries to remove Edward Uino's satchel.
You try to empty Elias Greenwood's left pocket.
You try to empty Elias Greenwood's right pocket.
Jed Woolery says, "Because there is a crazy cult going around."
Ramona Faust tries to remove Elias Greenwood's backpack.
Ramona Faust tries to remove Elias Greenwood's backpack.
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the satchel.
Edward Uino says, "They are dealing with the cult"
[Command] Patrick Hoover says, "fuck this guys call the shuttle"
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the box.
Edward Uino exclaims, "Uncuff me at once!"
[Command] Patrick Hoover says, "we are fucked"
Ramona Faust has thrown the box.
Kayla Kawaii tries to remove Jed Woolery's satchel.
Ramona Faust has thrown the backpack.
Elias Greenwood says, "Check us, Nothing"
Ramona Faust has thrown the personal AI device.
[Common] Daisy Holmes gibbers, "Can I get whoever's currently in charge of sec to brig"
Edward Uino yells
You put PDA-Elias Greenwood (Assistant) into the backpack.
Edward Uino gibbers
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the box.
Ramona Faust has thrown the backpack.
You put the box into the backpack.
You put Elias Greenwood's ID Card (Cargo Technician) into the backpack.
Jed Woolery says, "hell check my PDA for messages of me trying to help."
Edward Uino grumbles
Ramona Faust tries to remove Elias Greenwood's insulated gloves.
Kayla Kawaii says, "This one has an engineering encryption key"
Kayla Kawaii tries to remove Jed Woolery's supply radio headset.
You put the insulated gloves into the security satchel.
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the supply radio headset.
Jed Woolery has been hit by the supply radio headset.
Kayla Kawaii tries to remove Jed Woolery's toolbelt.
Edward Uino says, "unhand me you goons, we are trying to help"
Jed Woolery says, "As I said, check my PDA."
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the toolbelt.
Ramona Faust tries to put the backpack on Elias Greenwood.
[Common] Swagatronic states, "MOTION ALARM IN AI CHAMBER"
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the supply radio headset.
Edward Uino says, "Give me back my crate! That costs 5 points."
OOC: Stu Alpha: I realized that the detective's revolver is more robust than the tasers
Ramona Faust says, "You've stolen an emitter and broke into a secure holding area."
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the supply radio encryption key.
Ramona Faust says, "Those are hefty crimes."
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the standard encryption key.
Kayla Kawaii has thrown the toolbelt.
Edward Uino says, "I have done nothing."
Kayla Kawaii tries to remove Jed Woolery's PDA-Jed Woolery (Cargo Technician).
Edward Uino says, "those are minor infractions"
OOC: Ecnar: perhaps because it's a gun?
Elias Greenwood says, "Nope, The emitter was already here when Uino showed up"
Edward Uino says, "worth two minutes in the brig"
Ramona Faust says, "You're hilarious."
Ramona Faust says, "It's called, "secure" holding for a reason."
Edward Uino asks, "for helping fight cult?"
Kayla Kawaii says, "ahh"
*beep*
Kayla Kawaii says, "this guy found the encryption key"
[Security] Tyra Shanks asks, "Who released Mateo Leech?"
Kayla Kawaii says, "and PDA messaged the hos"
Elias Greenwood says, "Uino is guilty of nothing"
Kayla Kawaii says, "and the warden"
Kayla Kawaii says, "and an officer"
Kayla Kawaii says, "and the hop"
Kayla Kawaii says, "he is a good man"
Ramona Faust says, "Okay."

[CreationPro]

Except that's not your only means of communication.

[Ramona Faust]

Except that's not your only means of communication.

There's no proof of that, because there's none to find, you'd have posted some type of log or some such rather than just going off hunches and a wasted hour of your time. Do you have any tangible evidence of meta? Because as it stands right now, I have more proof that we weren't in the form of our logs, than you do based on your word. Please, post the login times if you feel that's sufficient, post us allegedly doing shit without speaking, do - SOMETHING. Can we get a headmin opinion on this? I'm getting tired of replies from you which are essentially the equivalent of, "no u r a liar."

[CreationPro]

All right, here's one:

You encounter a juggernaut in the halls. It does not get called out on the radio. Your buddy is chilling in sec. You get attacked by the juggernaut.

Wham! He charges to your location, guns blazing, skulls poppin', all aboard to save corporal Kawaii.

[Ramona Faust]

All right, here's one:

You encounter a juggernaut in the halls. It does not get called out on the radio. Your buddy is chilling in sec. You get attacked by the juggernaut.

Wham! He charges to your location, guns blazing, skulls poppin', all aboard to save corporal Kawaii.

Chilling in security? I was never in one position for long and when I went to security it was to take that stun crate from Cargo to my other security officers, shortly after Kayla says to me:

Ramona Faust says, "Daisy."
[Security] Kayla Kawaii says, "hos"
Ramona Faust says, "Arm up"
[Security] Kayla Kawaii says, "waiting for you"

So I leave security to go find Kayla, I didn't have to go far, the moment I got right above the bridge she's unloading multiple rounds into Jugg's -

Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
[Common] Mateo Leech says, "Sec can't handle a disgruntled mime"
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the head!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the right leg!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) smashes their armored gauntlet into Grandmaster Honk!
You fire the laser gun!
Grandmaster Honk is hit by a laser in the head!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
You fire the laser gun!
You fire the laser gun!

I watch the Jugg's attack and she fires her gun three times before I even pull out my gun to shoot, so again; I don't see what you're talking about at all.

You could see all of this too, if you were to check those logs you're refusing to look at.

[Saegrimr]

I'm going to jump in on this here.
You and your friend got multiple ckeys across multiple proxies, all of them with permabans for the same shit. Metacomms.

rviderklvn
ak1ra
svvvv
rvidxrklvn
ejakul8
jwoods
martinking
biglipzlongdiks
r3x0r
lordandsaviourjesuschrist
h4ru
analmaster6420
bootymasta420
egoulart
iu2014
malwaifu121
taeyeonthebest
demolishingibsons
swagmcthug

That's just a handful of some of them, i'm too lazy to pull up the... 67 other IPs right now, 41 from just a single ONE of those ckeys.

[Ramona Faust]

I'm going to jump in on this here.
You and your friend got multiple ckeys across multiple proxies, all of them with permabans for the same shit. Metacomms.

rviderklvn
ak1ra
svvvv
rvidxrklvn
ejakul8
jwoods
martinking
biglipzlongdiks
r3x0r
lordandsaviourjesuschrist
h4ru
analmaster6420
bootymasta420
egoulart
iu2014
malwaifu121
taeyeonthebest
demolishingibsons
swagmcthug

That's just a handful of some of them, i'm too lazy to pull up the... 67 other IPs right now, 41 from just a single ONE of those ckeys.

None of those accounts belong to me, specifically. Proxies? Proxies don't protect you from hardware bans, if I was perma'd for meta I'd still be perma'd. Please don't lump me into whatever history this person has.

"bootymasta420"
This guy - https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2052
Is not me, again; I have no association with whatever keys they are. It also appears that creation pro unbanned him recently, I've been playing for far longer than him, even before he was unbanned.

What accounts did you link, "Dread.Redshirt" too specifically? I connect to byond through my home IP - whatever accounts I've used in the past can be found via searching that, please let me know. I'm not linked to any of those, because none of them belong to me.

[SUBZERO]

I'm going to jump in on this here.
You and your friend got multiple ckeys across multiple proxies, all of them with permabans for the same shit. Metacomms.

rviderklvn
ak1ra
svvvv
rvidxrklvn
ejakul8
jwoods
martinking
biglipzlongdiks
r3x0r
lordandsaviourjesuschrist
h4ru
analmaster6420
bootymasta420
egoulart
iu2014
malwaifu121
taeyeonthebest
demolishingibsons
swagmcthug

That's just a handful of some of them, i'm too lazy to pull up the... 67 other IPs right now, 41 from just a single ONE of those ckeys.

I like how you claim Romana and I are all these people, yet when i typed just one of them into the search box i find this guy appealing his perma and actually getting it lifted... https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2052

I'm quite curious where you're getting this information.

[Ramona Faust]

None of those accounts belong to me, specifically. Proxies? Proxies don't protect you from hardware bans, if I was perma'd for meta I'd still be perma'd. Please don't lump me into whatever history this person has.

"bootymasta420"
This guy - https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2052
Is not me, again; I have no association with whatever keys they are. It also appears that creation pro unbanned him recently, I've been playing for far longer than him, even before he was unbanned.

What accounts did you link, "Dread.Redshirt" too specifically? I connect to byond through my home IP - whatever accounts I've used in the past can be found via searching that, please let me know. I'm not linked to any of those, because none of them belong to me.

Allow me to further reiterate:

>by Bootymasta420 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:27 pm
He made his unban appeal on the 21st, so he was still perma'd here.

>Postby CreationPro » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:44 am
He wasn't unbanned until the 24th, however -

To correct the OP, it was Ramona Faust

This was posted on, "Postby foobascoops » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:31 pm "

On the 21st, three days before this kid even got unbanned. We are evidently not the same person and proxies are hardly a solid means to base our identities on, because if anyone uses the same public proxies that have been used for forums or through tor, their IPs will show up for various other accounts.

[Saegrimr]

I'm quite curious where you're getting this information.

We have a pretty robust database of all connections to the server, and I regularly go through them for fun.

[NikNakFlak]

First, the only two posts I deleted were this:
"Hey wow, your a cool guy, guy I've been accused of metagaming with, ping me on byond sometime"
Followed by a response
"Ok man cool!"

I dont care what you say, that stuff can stay out of an appeal, especially one about metacommunication between two people.
Secondly, contrary to belief Intigracy, you are not an administrator, and therefore, should not be posting.

[NikNakFlak]

I understand the dogpile mindset. I've explicetly dealt with these guys in the past and most of the stuff I have seen and then what CP has seen screams metacommunication. Noting, they are also very cancerous in the way they play together. Everything I have dug up is confirmed. As far as all the other accounts saeg dug up, I did not find them in the initial search and I have not confirmed them being related. Regardless, you stirring the pot needlessly simply because you think that admins are wrong about something we took the time to watch and debate over for hours before coming to a conclusion is dumb. Knock it off.

[Ramona Faust]

I've explicetly dealt with these guys in the past and most of the stuff I have seen and then what CP has seen screams metacommunication.

Potentially dealing with "us" on one occasion (the RD thing you referenced) does not give you some sort of omni-potent knowledge or insight on this matter. It was an isolated incident months ago, it holds no weight now unless you choose to put some on it by claiming something that happened months ago, with no further incidents, is somehow related to this now.

It isn't, wasn't actually then and definitely is not now.

Everything I have dug up is confirmed.

Which is?

As far as all the other accounts saeg dug up, I did not find them in the initial search and I have not confirmed them being related.

There's nothing to confirm as those accounts are simply not mine. "Dread.Redshirt" look up the hardware ID/IP used for that account and match it to any known ckeys you can find. There wont be many, because I don't have many that I play this specific game with and I can absolutely guarantee none of those people are me.

Edit: Especially with the timestamped examples I gave above from your own forums, where one of the guys were just getting off a permaban while Kayla and I were actively in game already. I can't be both active and perma banned at the same time, choose one.

Regardless, you stirring the pot needlessly simply because you think that admins are wrong about something we took the time to watch and debate over for hours before coming to a conclusion is dumb. Knock it off.

This seems kinda melodramatic. What did you take time in doing? CP himself stated that he was only watching us for an hour, and obviously from past rounds you didn't find anything conclusive enough to warrant a perma then. Just suspicion where there really shouldn't have been any. Why? Because a couple regulars cried when they died in IRC chat? Perhaps they were your friends, to garner such a close inspection of us? (Ironic, in a way.) The round you finally decided to conclude meta-communication has plentiful logs indicating otherwise, that all communication was done in game. CP's loose justification for meta-communication has already been retorted. I'm still waiting on definitive logs, or some type of definitive proof here. The entire way this was handled was foul, it seems sloppy and based on loose justifications and observations, rather than concrete proof.

"I - know - you're metagaming because I've seen some meta in my day." That is nonsense, absurdity even. That's as ignorant as saying to someone, "I know you're a faggot because I've seen some faggots in my day." It's neither true, nor accurate; Unless they/you are, in which case I hope the use of "faggot" in my example does not offend you. I'm a lesbian, so the word does not hold as much meaning to me as it would a male, I suppose~

I digress -

You're human, you're prone to err, and I'm sorry to say but in this case you are. I don't want to damage any egos here, I'm just interested in what's fair and just in this situation, I don't mean to deride the hour CP spent watching us, and the couple minutes over the span of a few days you spent talking about this in IRC. However, reiterating on what I said before, this entire thing was handled piss poorly; What is it that has you so damn sure? What crucial piece of information do you have that you're withholding from us in terms of definitive proof? Unless there's an agenda, I can't really see that, or is it just plain obtuse hubris taking place here - why are you unable to see that you just may be wrong about this?

Integracy also made a rather valid point, before you deleted it, the fact Kayla was actively in TS3 during these rounds and the fact I was not. It makes meta-communication hard when you're A. not doing it, and B. not even in the same chat platform as the person.

[Antonkr]

I do not have enough information to support either sides but Kayla was indeed on teamspeak at the time. I do not recall the activity or if he talked at all during the time being but was indeed present.

[Ramona Faust]

Obviously you don't like the guy and want to see him go. But you haven't provided proof and this is setting a precedent for IC friendships allowed from here on out in tg. You can't use your personal grudge(I remember how much you would trash kayla on teamspeak) to weigh in on this issue

This person makes an excellent point, if NikNak has concrete proof of something I'd like to see it, but could his personal opinion/vendetta and past bias be left out of my situation? I'm a separate entity from Kayla, and I'd rather not have a grudge on one spill over to another. Thank you.

I need access to the logs and the old artyom notes.

This kid's gonna use notes from 10+ months ago to reinforce his stance on a point you have now? What about the MONTHS that passed where our keys may have changed, and we fell out of IC contact, and therefore had none as that was our only source of communication and the prospect of meta-communication was no longer an issue? I don't ever recall interacting with a Kayla back then, and I only remember the RD thing because you referenced it specifically, though if you have notes on me from back then do post them. Aside from that, you can't possibly use your suspicion of wrong doing then, as a basis for confirmation now, without ignoring all of the time in between; Time didn't just disappear because you refuse to acknowledge it.

[SUBZERO]

It's unbelievable that this thread is still going. I was accused of a crime and punished for it without a single shred of proof or even a single message. I was forced to respond on the forums and then called suspicious for doing so quickly. This thread has devolved into a dog pile of admins trying so desperately to make an illegitimate and unjust ban stick with poorly constructed assumptions and nonsense from 10+ months ago. You've even gone so far as to try and accuse me of being other random people. As one can see from the logs (has anyone actually looked at them?) the accused and I are speaking to each other all the time, this is quite simply because we are IC friends and have no out of game form of communication. Your assumptions should hold no weight in this thread, especially those of the obviously biased niknakflak. Yes, there have been times I have changed my keys and it was to escape his constant metagrudging and harassment. He spoke very rudely and offensively to me on teamspeak, he was always trying to find reasons to ban or warn me (it felt like he was watching me every round i played) and when i finally couldn't take it anymore, i stopped playing TG all together and when i came back months later i used a new identity. I find it quite saddening that the moment someone points out the connection between my current ckey and h4ru, niknakflak suddenly appears with a furious and adamant disposition that i am guilty of these baseless accusations.

I play on tgstation because i love the player base, i come home from long days at work and try to have some fun and instead I have to deal with shit like this. I'm still in awe about how quickly this thread has devolved, but one really can't expect much when it's a product of the worst ban in the history of TG.

If finding metagamers is "so easy" why am I yet to see a single piece of proof? The only half-assed attempts I've seen can be completely dismissed by a quick glace at the logs, which I'm starting to doubt anyone is even doing. Instead of looking at the game logs to see whats going on, It's merely a witch hunt of people looking through notes and previous ckeys to find some sort of way to make this unjust and baseless ban stick.

[NikNakFlak]

It took me a couple of hours to make this
http://privatepaste.com/303df46d09
Please note some things:
This is edited. I did not want to post both of your personal information like CIDs and IPs on the forums as those have been edited out. However, you have playing from a proxy since you joined this server on all of your accounts except maybe your most current. That is not what you got a ban for but the information is here, along with all your notes from all your accounts for both of you in question. The reason this took so long to make is because I wrote out all the locations, listed every single IP and CID all the accounts connected from and linked them all in various cross referencing DB checks. This also does not include CPs story and does not include the logs because I did alot of data mining and I did not have the time to simply edit out all the sensitive information in raw logs. There is an un-edited admin version of this document but again, we can't share it with players due to the sensitive information. Feel free to address any points brought up.

Due to what I personally have seen, this just looks downright like metacommunicating to me. Not to mention, the whole thing where you happen to buddy up on two separate un-related accounts. Due to these reasons and that privatepaste I have prepared, I stand by my statement that I believe you were metacommunicating. This is not my ban however, and I do not speak for creationpro.

I have shared this information with adminbus and the headmins and they can determine whether or not you will be un-banned. I have no say in the matter, it is completely up to CreationPro (The actual person who banned both of you) and headmins at this point.

[Ramona Faust]

Due to what I personally have seen, this just looks downright like metacommunicating to me. Not to mention, the whole thing where you happen to buddy up on two separate un-related accounts.

I've already addressed this in a past post, and the fact you're blatantly choosing willful ignorance of all the time during the months between where we had no communication.

These notes suggest they are still a rather problematic player and had multiple admins and instances in which they seemed to be metacommunicating.

Kayla's behavior is one thing, but irrelevant in regard to the metagaming accusations. Your own logs contradict your touting of, "multiple OOC meta-communicating suspicion." When you quite clearly show proof that it wasn't until the first a warning was posted for these accounts, and then on the third a loosely placed ban based on an assumption is made.

01-Dec-2014 | Watch for communication with Ramona (Dread RedShirt) ~thegel [-]
03-Dec-2014 | Second observation of them walking around with dread Redshirt . They do speak in-game, but seems more like an excuse. ~creationpro [-] 03-Dec-2014 | Banned for 0 minutes - Metacommunications with Dread Redshirt. ~creationpro

These notes suggest they are still a rather problematic player and had multiple admins and instances in which they seemed to be metacommunicating.

You consider two notes about suspicion to be multiple instances and definitive? I guess in the sense that they're more than one? lol.

10-Oct-2014 | Potential metacomms with LordAndSaviourJesusChrist. Two ganged up to validhunt with decent coordination, minimal but still existing chat between the two IC. ~saegrimr

*potential* metacomms is not proof of, "definitive" meta-communication, I don't remember the situation, nor do I remember this key off hand or what transpired, but apparently it wasn't an issue afterward?

These accounts could be related or they could be the side effect of multiple using the same proxies/VPNs. *account srifenbyxp is confirmed un-related due to a weird CID thingy that was discussed

I'll relate the above incident to this, though I'm not sure; Considering I do not have meta-communication with this player, it would be impossible for me to either confirm nor deny whomever this was.

01-Dec-2014 | Watch for communication with Kayla (2uBz3r0) ~thegel [-] 03-Dec-2014 | Second observation of them walking around with 2uBz3r0 . They do speak in-game, but seems more like an excuse. ~creationpro [-] 03-Dec-2014 | Banned for 0 minutes - Metacommunications with 2uBz3r0. ~creationpro

This is just a rehash of your above logs, I hope you're not counting the warnings we have gotten for the same things as their own separate incidents in order to give off the false impression of having more substantial evidence than actually does exist. lol

Also, I'd like to point out that CP himself acknowledges our in game communication himself in his own notes, but then goes to say that "it just seems like an excuse" without any definitive proof or doing any sort of real follow up

Notes for Irim4Free: 26-Jun-2014 | Was in a situation in which he had potentialy metafriending/helping a traitor but without any real definitive proof. ~antonkr [-] 26-Jun-2014 | Did heavy investigation into this: caught him in two lies. Several odd things come up in logs about him such as wordlessly braining kato into the RD. Attacking many non-antags as a non-antag and claims to play alot of LLA. Account is two days old. First seen tuesday, account made tuesday. Watch carefully. ~niknakflak

"It had to do with Irim4Free seeing a traitor E-swording someone but attacked the wrong guy, he attacked the RD who wasn't even holding an E-sword, he just "thought he was"

I've already addressed this the first time you tried to make this accusation, please reread my post for clarity on the situation. Also, wasn't this around the time TBM was spawning rape monkies on Kenzie Smith? And where there was OOC notoriety of this player? There's definitely no OOC communication here, but maybe a desire to screw with someone that was notorious in game. If that's an issue, I apologize in advance for taking part in it; I did receive a ban for my shitty behavior here, and it wasn't repeated.

However, the second bit I quoted here you contradict in your own logs:

It had to do with Irim4Free seeing a traitor E-swording someone but attacked the wrong guy, he attacked the RD who wasn't even holding an E-sword, he just "thought he was"

ADMIN: PM: (Johnathan Rigel)->Jordie0608: So at the start of the round, Kato and a player Anell Ryder broke into RnD, I didn't specifically what they did but Kato ran at me with an esword and tried to kill me, I ended up killing him. Anell came I told her kato attempted to kill me, She tried to take the body but I refused, and kicked her out twice, Later anell came back and killed me. At first I thought this normal because I used the esword kato had to kill.

You're claiming he wasn't even in possession of the esword, he's validating the fact he was in his own Ahelps and that he in fact used said esword to murder the guy. Though, I'm not sure how your ban on me for this is grounds for a meta-communication ban here and now. It's only natural to try and engage an antagonist that has killed someone with an Esword wordlessly, without calling security and then refusing to give up the body for cloning. My only blunder in this specific situation was going along with passively griefing Kenzie based on her notoriety, of which, like I said I received a ban for and got the point of no longer doing it.

If she still plays, I apologize for that shit, though it's not like I specifically know you on an intimate level, so I doubt an apology here will mean much. lol

Actual account linkage info: IPs and CIDs edited out for privacy sake. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Account: dreadredshirt Account made according to byond: Jan 15, 2014 First seen: 2014-07-03 Last seen: 2014-12-03 Primarily a sybil player. Connected to artyom and Basil/badger rarely. CIDs: IPs: CIDs match account IRim4Free IPs match account IRim4Free ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Account: IRim4Free Account made according to byond: Jun 24, 2014 First seen: 2014-06-24 Last seen: 2014-07-01 Primarily an artyom player, Connected to sybil rarely CIDs: All CIDs and IPs for account Irim4Free match account Dreadredshirt, see info above.

So basically, thank you for confirming that I am none of those other accounts.

Secondly;

These accounts could be related or they could be the side effect of multiple using the same proxies/VPNs. *account srifenbyxp is confirmed un-related due to a weird CID thingy that was discussed

Thank you for confirming that you're not entirely sure if all the work you did in making those connections was in any way at all relevant, as it seems to have been entirely fruitless aside from confirming I am none of the people Saig originally claimed I was.

So, allow me to again point out the following:

10-Oct-2014 | Potential metacomms with LordAndSaviourJesusChrist. Two ganged up to validhunt with decent coordination, minimal but still existing chat between the two IC. ~saegrimr [-]

03-Dec-2014 | Second observation of them walking around with dread Redshirt . They do speak in-game, but seems more like an excuse. ~creationpro

In the two main examples you have the admins noting communication. As I stated before, I can't validate the story with LordAndSavior, but even in that one I'm unsure about, Saegrimr notes conversation. (Is that even the same person?) Then in the ban that started this entire thread, there is communication noted, not even a marginal amount like Saeg claimed, but rather thick logs of it.

You continuously regurgitating this rhetoric is just an example of redundancy, as it may bulk up your "evidence" in terms of "text", it does nothing to offer anything new in terms of substantial proof, as posting the same thing over and over again does not make it new.

Edit: Hell,I would have even toned down the metafriending for awhile if I was just spoken to about it. I've observed countless other players do the same thing with little to no scrutiny, and the fact nothing was specifically being said about it outside of private IRC channels made me think it was a non-issue. Then to find out I'm instantly banned for it after a short two day deliberation, but not only banned for it but then accused of being a liar and down-right meta-gaming? Complete shit, imo.

Based on the way things are going, I have a feeling it's going to boil down to this - "You've refuted everything we have said, provided your own concrete logs of documented communication in game, and there are countless logs documenting communication and IC friendship building in game on our end, even documented in our own notes; along with several others providing an alibi at the time of your ban, plus another admin confirming Kayla was in team speak, butttt - we're still convinced: Denied."

[MrGlasses]

Adding what I saw to this thread during the cult round:

There was a juggernaut just above the bridge and one of the two that was banned came down and started fighting it. Without yelling over the radio, the second person ran down from security, gun out, and started shooting the juggernaut. I wouldn't have thought anything of this save for the fact there were notes on the two players about suspected metacomms.

[Ramona Faust]

Adding what I saw to this thread during the cult round:

There was a juggernaut just above the bridge and one of the two that was banned came down and started fighting it. Without yelling over the radio, the second person ran down from security, gun out, and started shooting the juggernaut. I wouldn't have thought anything of this save for the fact there were notes on the two players about suspected metacomms.

All right, here's one:

You encounter a juggernaut in the halls. It does not get called out on the radio. Your buddy is chilling in sec. You get attacked by the juggernaut.

Wham! He charges to your location, guns blazing, skulls poppin', all aboard to save corporal Kawaii.

Chilling in security? I was never in one position for long and when I went to security it was to take that stun crate from Cargo to my other security officers, shortly after Kayla says to me:

Ramona Faust says, "Daisy."
[Security] Kayla Kawaii says, "hos"
Ramona Faust says, "Arm up"
[Security] Kayla Kawaii says, "waiting for you"

So I leave security to go find Kayla, I didn't have to go far, the moment I got right above the bridge she's unloading multiple rounds into Jugg's -

Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
[Common] Mateo Leech says, "Sec can't handle a disgruntled mime"
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the head!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the right leg!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) smashes their armored gauntlet into Grandmaster Honk!
You fire the laser gun!
Grandmaster Honk is hit by a laser in the head!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
You fire the laser gun!
You fire the laser gun!

I watch the Jugg's attack and she fires her gun three times before I even pull out my gun to shoot, so again; I don't see what you're talking about at all.

You could see all of this too, if you were to check those logs you're refusing to look at.

Is anyone going to come in here and refute what we've actually said to defend ourselves, with concrete logs or evidence suggesting otherwise, NOT anecdotal opinions formed from reading notes from the past two days, and then notes from over five months ago - as if they have any connection now.

I'm also curious as to why NikNak is allowed to continually post in favor of this ban, despite having no involvement in it whatsoever outside of a couple bans he placed on Kayla, nearly five months ago, along with maybe one note of suspicion from him - five months ago. Yet, when a player comes in and offers an alibi for Kayla and forms constructive counter arguements to the things being said by NikNak, all of his posts are deleted by NikNak? Selective rule enforcement?

[NikNakFlak]

The bans placed upon kayla months ago are irrelevant, it's the note about potential metacomms between you two on the old account that me and antonkr witnessed. Also noting, ALL of the vpn/proxy accusations are against kayla and have nothing to do with you. You were never even accused of having any more accounts other than Dread and Irim4free. Those accusations were directed at h4ru. Things are getting a little murky and I apologize if that data dump was alittle un clear. As far as this goes:

You're claiming he wasn't even in possession of the esword, he's validating the fact he was in his own Ahelps and that he in fact used said esword to murder the guy. Though, I'm not sure how your ban on me for this is grounds for a meta-communication ban here and now. It's only natural to try and engage an antagonist that has killed someone with an Esword wordlessly, without calling security and then refusing to give up the body for cloning. My only blunder in this specific situation was going along with passively griefing Kenzie based on her notoriety, of which, like I said I received a ban for and got the point of no longer doing it.

If she still plays, I apologize for that shit, though it's not like I specifically know you on an intimate level, so I doubt an apology here will mean much. lol

The player specifically mentioned telling you the situation but you broke in anyway to steal the body. That whole thing is again murkey because the RD disarmed the traitor and ended up killing him with the e-sword, (my bad for mixing that up in my above post). My whole accusation of that situation is when you wordlessly switched the brain from the traitor into the RDs body and then he switched you and planted the bomb in your chest. Also, that was a note, there was never a ban.

Moving on,

You consider two notes about suspicion to be multiple instances and definitive? I guess in the sense that they're more than one? lol.

Three. You got a potential metacommunications note on your first account Irim4free. It's not that "Three notes is like nothing" its the fact that you guys were placed on metacommunication watch on one account, 4 months later on two other accounts, the same thing happens. What I'm saying is, that is highly unlikely and just reeks of a fishyness.

This is just a rehash of your above logs, I hope you're not counting the warnings we have gotten for the same things as their own separate incidents in order to give off the false impression of having more substantial evidence than actually does exist. lol

Also, I'd like to point out that CP himself acknowledges our in game communication himself in his own notes, but then goes to say that "it just seems like an excuse" without any definitive proof or doing any sort of real follow up

Those are separate instances in which separate admins noticed something you did looked like metacommunication. They are separate instances.
Also, yes. CP acknowledges your in game communication and says its an excuse. He is basing the ban upon instances and observations of behavior. You don't seem to get that just because someone is talking in-game does not mean they aren't also talking out of game and based on what he saw, he assumed this. This is why he claims your IC chat seemed like a joke.

So basically, thank you for confirming that I am none of those other accounts.

Confirmed for you yes, you never had any links to these accounts, it is the other person that does.

Thank you for confirming that you're not entirely sure if all the work you did in making those connections was in any way at all relevant, as it seems to have been entirely fruitless aside from confirming I am none of the people Saig originally claimed I was.

Also true, here is the problem though. When someone connects with a proxy, and that proxy just happens to connect to other accounts but it's a proxy, woah and behold, we have no idea if it's because it's the proxy you are using or it's because the other accounts are actually also yours. There is zero way for us to tell and zero way for anyone using a proxy to prove it either way. That's way I wrote: These accounts could be related or they could be the side effect of multiple using the same proxies/VPNs. Again though, none of that concerns you specifically, that has to do with kayla/h4ru.

As far as

Yet, when a player comes in and offers an alibi for Kayla and forms constructive counter arguements to the things being said by NikNak, all of his posts are deleted by NikNak? Selective rule enforcement?

The admins who made notes about potential metacomms and dealt with you two in the past with again, a potential metacomms situation would be considered involved. As far as intigracy's post were made, some did have some truth while others stirred the pot. The post about him saying the Proxys may or may not be kayla's was true. I told you the reason above.

[Ramona Faust]

Three. You got a potential metacommunications note on your first account Irim4free. It's not that "Three notes is like nothing" its the fact that you guys were placed on metacommunication watch on one account, 4 months later on two other accounts, the same thing happens. What I'm saying is, that is highly unlikely and just reeks of a fishyness.

You consistently rule out the months of nothing.

I can assure you that I had been playing this entire time, if the suspicion of meta-communication was an issue back then, it would have been quickly resolved. There's no meta-communication taking place and whatever IC friendship we had from those few rounds we had together, was lost when names were changed - as I had no conceivable way of knowing who the hell this person was. However, we were bound to inevitably re-encounter each other, on a game with the same consistent 80 some players in any given day. It's not as unlikely as you think, in fact there's a very good probability of multiple people interacting with each other round after round, they're called your playerbase and many people within your playerbase take part in strong metafriendship with absolutely little to no scrutiny. So I'm not too sure why we're getting permabanned for it, with claims of meta-gaming so adamantly, despite having logs of IC communication and friendship, and you having no logs to disprove such and only assumptions to warrant your loose justification for a permanent removal from the server.

Also, yes. CP acknowledges your in game communication and says its an excuse. He is basing the ban upon instances and observations of behavior. You don't seem to get that just because someone is talking in-game does not mean they aren't also talking out of game and based on what he saw, he assumed this. This is why he claims your IC chat seemed like a joke.

he assumed this. This is why he claims your IC chat seemed like a joke

I'm not sure how I feel about being perma banned under an assumption. How would you feel about that?

Also true, here is the problem though. When someone connects with a proxy, and that proxy just happens to connect to other accounts but it's a proxy, woah and behold, we have no idea if it's because it's the proxy you are using or it's because the other accounts are actually also yours. There is zero way for us to tell and zero way for anyone using a proxy to prove it either way. That's way I wrote: These accounts could be related or they could be the side effect of multiple using the same proxies/VPNs. Again though, none of that concerns you specifically, that has to do with kayla/h4ru.

It does concern me, when you base my permaban on the past behavior of this player and insinuate that the things you're unsure about with these proxy logs are somehow decisive proof of our wrong doing now.

potential metacomms - potential metacomms

Potential meta-communication? No, suspicion from months ago, with nothing that raised flags in the mean time, until an IC friendship is finally formed again based on legitimate roleplay escalation months later. This kid taught me a really quick way to do genetics in game, of course I'm going to have a friendly disposition toward them. It's not like we don't kill each other when one of us is an opposing antagonist, like in this example of another player, for instance; https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ead#unread - it's not like we're running around wordlessly, doing shit of that caliber. This guy gets an antag ban for wordlessly helping someone, yet despite communication in game, I'm getting perma banned for less?

[CreationPro]

I'm not going to take your half-baked "IC communications" excuse. I am not lifting this unless a headmin decides to overrule this one.

[Ramona Faust]

I'm not going to take your half-baked "IC communications" excuse. I am not lifting this unless a headmin decides to overrule this one.

Way to ignore everything that has been written here, including a firm alibi presented by another member of the community, and even an administrator about Kayla being in TS3, way to have your earlier points refuted and have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever to them. No logs, no concrete evidence of anything other than your own baseless assumptions. I feel some type of way about this, guy. I'd like a headmin to take a look at this, because based on this I have serious reservations regarding the question of your competency, especially in regard to making such a decision as to permanently remove a player from this server: Based on assumptions, which you, and NikNak have admitted to yourselves as being - assumptions~

"I don't need proof, I have GUT INSTINCT, I administrate 2D spessmans, I can do whatever the fuck I want, ex dee."

Based on the way things are going, I have a feeling it's going to boil down to this - "You've refuted everything we have said, provided your own concrete logs of documented communication in game, and there are countless logs documenting communication and IC friendship building in game on our end, even documented in our own notes; along with several others providing an alibi at the time of your ban, plus another admin confirming Kayla was in team speak, butttt - we're still convinced: Denied."

Quoted for truth~

[Intigracy]

Since my ban expired, my posts were deleted, and this thread is still here:
I can verify that Kayla was on teamspeak talking to Mandurrh at the time of the supposed metacommunication.
Antonkr has already verified he was at least on the server.

Please explain how they were metacommunicating with this in mind, as well as the logs they posted showing they were talking IC.

[CreationPro]

Text communication, or even a different voice program. TS does have a mute function.

[SUBZERO]

Text communication, or even a different voice program. TS does have a mute function.

Your ability to dismiss hard evidence is unparalleled. A member of the community who was once a headmin offers a valid and confirm-able alibi and all you have to say is "Ts has a mute function". That's superb justification for baselessly and permanently removing two players from the server without any form of evidence at all. This thread is full of logs and testimonies proving contrary to your assumption and evidently the only thing you're capable of "refuting" with are weak one liners and nonsense.

[Ramona Faust]

I'm not going to take your half-baked "IC communications" excuse.

Please explain how they were metacommunicating with this in mind, as well as the logs they posted showing they were talking IC

Text communication.

"I witnessed you communicating in game, but I don't "believe" it. I can completely believe you were communicating through text outside of game though."

This guy "believes" in the meta, as if it were some deity not yet seen by human eyes. He believes it with his entire heart and soul, there's no arguing with a zealot that bans based on hubris, and in face of all evidence to the contrary remains willfully ignorant.

That's superb justification for baselessly and permanently removing two players from the server without any form of evidence at all.

Preach~

[CreationPro]

I already said it: if you can make a headmin believe your words, he'll lift it. I won't.

[leibniz]

Adding what I saw to this thread during the cult round:

There was a juggernaut just above the bridge and one of the two that was banned came down and started fighting it. Without yelling over the radio, the second person ran down from security, gun out, and started shooting the juggernaut. I wouldn't have thought anything of this save for the fact there were notes on the two players about suspected metacomms.

If this is true it is kind of telling, it is not normal for sec to run with guns out for no reason, if they arent totally new.

[Ramona Faust]

Adding what I saw to this thread during the cult round:

There was a juggernaut just above the bridge and one of the two that was banned came down and started fighting it. Without yelling over the radio, the second person ran down from security, gun out, and started shooting the juggernaut. I wouldn't have thought anything of this save for the fact there were notes on the two players about suspected metacomms.

If this is true it is kind of telling, it is not normal for sec to run with guns out for no reason, if they arent totally new.

This has been addressed two or three times now in this thread, with logs.

All right, here's one:

You encounter a juggernaut in the halls. It does not get called out on the radio. Your buddy is chilling in sec. You get attacked by the juggernaut.

Wham! He charges to your location, guns blazing, skulls poppin', all aboard to save corporal Kawaii.

Chilling in security? I was never in one position for long and when I went to security it was to take that stun crate from Cargo to my other security officers, shortly after Kayla says to me:

Ramona Faust says, "Daisy."
[Security] Kayla Kawaii says, "hos"
Ramona Faust says, "Arm up"
[Security] Kayla Kawaii says, "waiting for you"

So I leave security to go find Kayla, I didn't have to go far, the moment I got right above the bridge she's unloading multiple rounds into Jugg's -

Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
[Common] Mateo Leech says, "Sec can't handle a disgruntled mime"
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the head!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the right leg!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) smashes their armored gauntlet into Grandmaster Honk!
You fire the laser gun!
Grandmaster Honk is hit by a laser in the head!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
You fire the laser gun!
You fire the laser gun!

I watch the Jugg's attack and she fires her gun three times before I even pull out my gun to shoot, so again; I don't see what you're talking about at all.

You could see all of this too, if you were to check those logs you're refusing to look at.

Here's more from the logs, I didn't even mention; After Kayla calls for me on the sec comms, the shuttle is called and red alert is issued - furthering my reason for heading down toward the bridge.

Attention! Code red!
There is an immediate serious threat to the station. Security may have weapons unholstered at all times. Random searches are allowed and advised.

The emergency shuttle has been called. Red Alert state confirmed: Dispatching priority shuttle. It will arrive in 6 minutes.
Nature of emergency:

fucked culted

Not to mention that I'm STOPPED in place, mocking the cargotech for ordering weapons and shit - WHILE Kayle is shooting and under attack.

"[Common] Ramona Faust says, "Wahh, security stole my stun weaponry and detained me for stealing an emitter.""
Ramona Faust says, "Wahh, security stole my stun weaponry and detained me for stealing an emitter.""
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
[Common] Mateo Leech says, "Sec can't handle a disgruntled mime"
Kayla Kawaii fires the energy gun!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the head!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) is hit by a laser in the right leg!
The laser gets reflected by Juggernaut (479)'s shell!
Juggernaut (479) smashes their armored gauntlet into Grandmaster Honk!
You fire the laser gun!"

Everything to validate our story is right in the pastebin I posted, which is conveniently being overlooked and disregarded.