[Pointlesswaste3] James Jameson (CKEY LynxJynx) - Metagrudging the RD by stealing his hardsuit

[LynxJynx]

Byond account and character name: LynxJynx - James Jameson

Banning admin: Pointlesswaste3

Ban type (What are you banned from?): General server ban

Ban reason and length: admitted to metagrudging ckey crabking45 (playing Boom Dicken), then logged out while being pm'd by admins. take some time off and read the rules. Length - 7 Days

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2019-4-24 00:47:13 (server time)

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil

Your side of the story: Round started, I was in toxins. I start working on the setup, some other people took over and I head to the hardsuit container which is in the toxins testing array, as im heading there the RD runs past me and so I follow him towards the testing array, I say 'Wait Dont' in response to him opening the door to there because I realize what he is about to do. I then run in and open the container, when I go to grab the hardsuit that came out he grabs it instead. I PUSH him against the wall and grab it off the floor after he had dropped it from being knocked against the wall. I run off and he calls security. It isnt until this moment, when he calls sec over the comms. that I realize it was an RD who had the night before cause problems for me in a similar situation and ended up with me being trapped in security for a while. He states that I ASSAULTED HIM even though I only pushed him and that I STOLE FROM SCIENCE by taking the hardsuit (Which I was going to be using because I didnt want to blow myself up in) and that I needed to be thrown in the brig. I of course go to complain to the HoP and I state that he is overreacting and abusing his ability as a head role to sick security on me for something that he is blowing out of proportions. I also say how he had done something similar in a previous shift that had resulted me in getting thrown in the brig for an extended period of time as say that this is just further evidence of him being corrupt. It is at this point that I am first messaged by the Admin. I do not remember the EXACT wording of the message I received and seeing as the public logs aren't working I cannot properly site what was said but it was something along the lines of why were you attacking the RD unprovoked and metagrudging him and stealing his hardsuit. I go on to explain that it wasn't unprovoked but then the chat logs for what I said to the HoP were sited as supposed proof I was metagrudging him. I reply stating something along the lines of if telling the HoP that he was corrupt and citing previous experiences with the guy is metagrudging then I guess I broke the rules but I do not believe that it is meta grudging because I had a reason to attack him in character. It is during this time that my screen on byond freezes and I try going and hitting the reconnect button but that just black screens me. I then close out of byond and go to reconnect. However, I then receive the message when I am trying to connect that I was banned,

Why you think you should be unbanned: I would like to address them in the order they happened in the story citing rules that I believe are on my side as I progress. The first would be me PUSHING the RD during the altercation in the toxins array. I believe that I was acting in accordance with the escalation policy which states in it that If a player wrongs you(theft, attacks, etc), you may retaliate.. I believe I was within my means to retaliate because he had wronged me. I do not believe that me citing an experience from a previous shift involving him to the HoP in an attempt to get them to deal with his corruption was meta grudging either because the rules state Similar to how characters are allowed to know everything about in-game mechanics or antagonists under rule 2, characters are allowed to have persistent knowledge/relationships/friendships with the caveat that knowledge of a character being an antagonist from a previous round is not used. . I do concede however that I understand how this could of been misinterpreted during the round and I accept that this might of warranted punishment. Now for the final item on the list in this story me leaving while being PM'd by the Admins. It is by no means my fault my byond crashed, I attempted to get back in without hard disconnecting at first but that didnt work so I was forced to exit byond and relaunch inorder to get back into the server. However as per part of the rule 6 precedents Admins will not automatically place bans for players logging off however, and will generally wait a while in case real life situations caused a player to disconnect or go AFK.. I believe I was not given enough time to reconnect before the admin resorted to giving me my ban.

[pointlesswaste]

your stated reason for your actions, ingame, to other characters, multiple times, was that you were negatively affected by the RD's player's play in previous rounds. this is metagrudging. i'll reduce it to 3 days and remove the note about leaving during ahelps. i should have waited a bit longer for you to get back in game, i'm sorry about that.

remember that we're all here to have fun and sometimes the mechanically optimal (for you) solution to a problem is not fun for other people.

[LynxJynx]

Would you mind linking the logs where I stated multiple times that my actions of pushing him were caused by his play in previous rounds? I personally dont recall this but I there is a chance that I am wrong in this regard and because the public logs are unavailable atm due to DDOS I am unable to check to see if I actually did.

[cedarbridge]

As another admin who has had to handle both ahelps from you and about you on this same subject regarding the same other player, I vouch that this has become a consistent pattern. You spun up a story over the course of several rounds that the particular player is "corrupt" because he wronged you in some way several rounds into the past and have proceeded to make it an issue with regularity without provocation in the actual round in which you're complaining. This included running to the HoP in one round to demand that this particular RD be demoted and that you should be given their role when the RD in question had minimal contact with you before that point.

What you're doing is textbook metagrudging.

[LynxJynx]

May I ask where you are getting this information from? I have only ever interacted with this person in 2 rounds on the station that I know of and that was the round in which I was banned and a round the night before. I do not understand how I could of spun up a story over the course of several rounds, and how I could of been wronged by him for several rounds in the past. I also do not remember a single instance where you had contacted me involving my interactions with this person nor do I have any notes that I know of from you regarding this topic. I don't think having interacted with this person for 2 rounds that I could of made an issue involving him a regularity. I can understand how you may have me confused with a person who has stolen my static which I attempted to inform the admins about last week after it was brought to my attention that this had happened although I do not believe I ever got a response to my AHELP over this.

[pointlesswaste]

you say "stolen my static" but that wouldn't matter from an admin perspective- we see byond ckeys on tickets, not just character names. when we look up people, we do it by ckey, not character name. someone might name their character "james jameson" but they won't have your byond ckey.

[pointlesswaste]

this has been up a while and i'm sorry for that, i should have clarified earlier. i'm going to let this note stand. if you don't metagrudge people in the future, it'll be a complete non-issue, and if you do, it'll be a heads up to whoever has to deal with it. either way it serves as a very solid reminder for you.