[NecromancerAnne] Timonk - not actually an antag roll

[Timonk]

Byond account and character name: Timonk - Kobe Catster
Banning admin: NecromancerAnne
Ban type (What are you banned from?): All Antags
Ban reason and length: Banned from Roles: Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Devil, Internal Affairs Agent, Malf AI, Monkey, Space Ninja, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Servant of Ratvar, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard, Hivemind Host permanently - Suicided as a blood brother without informing any admin. Your recent behaviour involving suiciding to antag roll and now this makes me think you don't deserve the role at all. Enough is enough. (Permanent)
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2019-08-26 11:04:38 Europe time
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil
Your side of the story: so, i started out as BB, got my shit from tool Storage, check Bridge for the Report and that bitchass AI bolts me into bridge. CMO comes around, we shuffle for a bit and he eventually loses his baton, sec comes around, they lose their baton too (not to me this time) and i get stunned and cuffed pretty quickly.
CMO takes off my Toolbelt and insuls and probably keeping them/giving them to the HoS. at that point i want to act out revenge on him, when i shove him. Then that assistant that got the officers baton comes around and helps the CMO stun and cuff me, proceeding to take almost everything else i still had, including my heirloom and uniform.
CMO messes around for a bit then i stir up some drama so i get uncuffed, i go into Dorms, get dressed and taunt the CMO a bit.

I seek for him a bit then see my Blood Brother in brig, after that point i thought he was dead. Keep that in mind.

I depart and see some shards in bar, i try to gather them to make a big fat pile of shards. this assistant runs up, annoys me a bit then i stun him for it, i somehow lose my prod after vomiting and he stuns me back and takes my shoes. now that bar is full of fucking shards and beepsky is approaching i slip multiple times on the shards, wrecking my leg. i get cuffed like thrice and i think to myself "am i even enjoying this?". after getting uncuffed, suicide since i would be better off playing something i enjoy rather than continuing to get madder and madder until i eventually get lynched. Anne Didnt Bwoink me once and straight up banned me.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

at the time of suicide i thought my Blood Brother was dead, which turns out he wasnt because he got released. i know that suicide wiz is against the rules but suiciding as solo antag isnt, right? on top of that i only suicided twice between my last note and my Antag ban as nonantag. i dont consistently suicide as nonantag. there are worse offenders. at the point i suicided it looked like my brother was dead and i didnt see anything wrong with suiciding when only one of us is alive. ON TOP OF THAT as i said she never questioned me once and straight up banned me.

[NecromancerAnne]

I will give this a more thorough reply tomorrow when I'm not half asleep and it isn't 11pm at night. I will say I couldn't see you still online and maybe that was my fuckup.

But what I will say is that we can have a nice long discussion about the matter here in this thread when it get back to it. I don't know if the length will remain permanent but it is tentatively so.

[NecromancerAnne]

Well okay, now I have time. So the permanent is likely to be temporary as I genuinely thought you had left the server before I could address you. I seemingly couldn't find you logged in and when I checked antagonists I found you in the middle of the hall having suicided and your blood brother still going around and doing things. In the end, I gave him full traitor and removed your status as a blood brother, as you had basically ensured there was no way either of you could greentext.

I want to preface this by saying no, you are not a solo antag in this scenario and while yes, you do have some justification for being frustrated and even being convinced your blood brother was done in by security, you can at the very least do the due diligence of leaving us administrators an ahelp to state 'hey, I think I'm just going to suicide and here is why'. At least then we can determine whether you can just go ahead with that and we make your living partner a traitor or some other such decision. I would honestly only find it acceptable for you to suicide if you know, with 100% certainty, that your blood brother is both irrecoverably dead (say, they aren't cloning or you know they've been cremated because someone said as such, or they are a miner and haven't returned which is honestly pretty good evidence to say they're dead for good) and you have hard evidence of this fact. Then, you need not bother informing us. Being imprisoned is not even close to good enough justification. That's honestly where you as his partner need to step up and maybe rescue him or help him. If that doesn't appeal or you can't be bothered, ask to be ghosted so someone else can take over.

I bring up your propensity to suicide because you seemingly are playing entirely for your own selfish reasons and seem intent on using the games antagonist role as a way to justifiably play the grief role. You've been spoken with about how suiciding so frequently is a high indicator that you're antag rolling, but in all likelihood you suicided in this instance because you found yourself an antagonist with none of the usual benefits (namely, powers and gear) in a hard situation. At basically the level of an assistant, you chose to selfishly abandon your partner, who is relying on you to work with him, to just do something else. If you don't like being a blood brother, I'm surprised you bothered to even have it enabled, because you apparently can't play nice with other people unless it suits your own enjoyment.

And further more, you have been noted on Terry about suiciding as recent as earlier this week. This is clearly a continuous problem with you and you have been given plenty of warning about this.

I'll be adjusting the ban to a permanent blood brother ban and a month general antag ban.

[Timonk]

I probably timed out when you banned me, but I still saw it.

How was I supposed to rescue him without any tools? He was inside of the brig.

Apart from that, we never told each other a word except "swag", because that's what blood brothers usually fo

[Timonk]

I'll write a better when I have time

[Timonk]

Being imprisoned is not even close to good enough justification. That's honestly where you as his partner need to step up and maybe rescue him or help him.

i had no tools at the time where i would have even remotely access to brig.

I bring up your propensity to suicide because you seemingly are playing entirely for your own selfish reasons and seem intent on using the games antagonist role as a way to justifiably play the grief role.

yeah you dont realise i dont suicide every time im not antag, which sounds like a problem. apart from that, you are also almost never online when i play, so it should be impossible to know if i always just suicide or not. calling me selfish is also a big yikes as there are plenty of players who know exactly that im not that.

At basically the level of an assistant, you chose to selfishly abandon your partner, who is relying on you to work with him, to just do something else. If you don't like being a blood brother, I'm surprised you bothered to even have it enabled, because you apparently can't play nice with other people unless it suits your own enjoyment.

Again, i thought my partner was dead at the time of suicide, we never spoke a word and i never ignored him. also this is the second time you called me selfish, just to make me look bad. and again, there are plenty of people who know that i can "play nice with other people. gave traitor shit away more than once. this is just not true.

[Tarchonvaagh]

This might be considered peanut, but sorry Timonk, I haven't ever seen you as a non-sec nonantag. The worst thing is that people who noticed this will more likely hunt and loot you if you act suspiciously. This ban is only good for you.

[Timonk]

This might be considered peanut, but sorry Timonk, I haven't ever seen you as a non-sec nonantag. The worst thing is that people who noticed this will more likely hunt and loot you if you act suspiciously. This ban is only good for you.

Well that might be because you mostly play Sci and I usually play robo, ai, sec and engie.

[Tarchonvaagh]

This might be considered peanut, but sorry Timonk, I haven't ever seen you as a non-sec nonantag. The worst thing is that people who noticed this will more likely hunt and loot you if you act suspiciously. This ban is only good for you.

Well that might be because you mostly play Sci and I usually play robo, ai, sec and engie.

i had to only play sci for a few days to unlock RD, i dont play them very often but sure

[Timonk]

I don't see you around much anyways is my point

[NecromancerAnne]

yeah you dont realise i dont suicide every time im not antag, which sounds like a problem. apart from that, you are also almost never online when i play, so it should be impossible to know if i always just suicide or not. calling me selfish is also a big yikes as there are plenty of players who know exactly that im not that.

Or, you know, you have notes and admins tracking your suicides across multiple rounds and the fact that it something that was prevalent enough on servers I don't frequent as well as servers that I do to indicate that it was an ongoing problem a week before the ban. I don't need to be present but I can certainly trust in my fellow administrators if they're acknowledging a trend in your behaviour, especially if it's different admins on different servers.

If I was to look at these remarks with no real first hand knowledge of your behavior (which isn't true as I have actually observed you doing this but not enough to really feel the need to note about it because you're right, we usually aren't online at the same time so I couldn't establish a trend myself), how else can I read it if one round I find that you've done exactly this while in a team position?

Furthermore, what other conclusion can I draw from this recent history other than what you're doing and your behavior if not that you aren't playing for otherwise toxic reasons, hyperfocused on our antag role and it's allowances? There is nothing wrong in doing whatever you like as an antagonist and even as a lone antagonist. If you suicided as a lone antag I wouldn't care (except in the obvious case of wizard roundstart suicide). But if you're finding yourself unable to even play the game unless you're in a position where you can make the spessmen horizontal and others be damned in the case of being in a team, what good does that do for the game? What good do you do for the game and the players if they happen to have you on their team?

[capn_monkeypaw]

yeah you dont realise i dont suicide every time im not antag, which sounds like a problem. apart from that, you are also almost never online when i play, so it should be impossible to know if i always just suicide or not.

Have you reviewed your admin remarks lately? You should.

[Timonk]

yeah you dont realise i dont suicide every time im not antag, which sounds like a problem. apart from that, you are also almost never online when i play, so it should be impossible to know if i always just suicide or not.

Have you reviewed your admin remarks lately? You should.

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i check them regularly

you do realise just because i got 2 antag rolling notes dosent mean i suicide every time im not antag

[bobbahbrown]

I wanted to provide some input with actual data, so I developed an aggregation for suicides and correlated this with round data. All of the data below is from public game logs, with the suicides being counted from game.txt. The following is for the past 30 days, specifically for rounds starting after 2019-07-29 00:00UTC



A played round is a round in which you appeared in the manifest.txt, this does not include ghost roles. For the purpose of the statistic of suiciding at roundstart this is not important. Antag rounds are roundstart antagonists, this does not include conversions or any other mid-round antagonist.

On any given five rounds in which you are not a round-start antagonist, you are statistically likely to have committed suicide in one of them within 10 minutes.

The base aggregated data that these numbers are counted from can be found here.

[Timonk]

I wanted to provide some input with actual data, so I developed an aggregation for suicides and correlated this with round data. All of the data below is from public game logs, with the suicides being counted from game.txt. The following is for the past 30 days, specifically for rounds starting after 2019-07-29 00:00UTC



A played round is a round in which you appeared in the manifest.txt, this does not include ghost roles. For the purpose of the statistic of suiciding at roundstart this is not important. Antag rounds are roundstart antagonists, this does not include conversions or any other mid-round antagonist.

On any given five rounds in which you are not a round-start antagonist, you are statistically likely to have committed suicide in one of them within 10 minutes.

The base aggregated data that these numbers are counted from can be found here.

First of all, thank you bobbah, very cool
But I also played way more than that considering I'm playing more or less every day since December last year

Edit :no wait delet dis I missed the "last 30 days" part I am retard

[Krusvik]

I wanted to provide some input with actual data, so I developed an aggregation for suicides and correlated this with round data. All of the data below is from public game logs, with the suicides being counted from game.txt. The following is for the past 30 days, specifically for rounds starting after 2019-07-29 00:00UTC

Considering the ruling has been backed with factual data providing a noticeable chunk of rounds were suicides before 10 minutes without antag, it's safe to assume NecromancerAnne has made the right judgment. We all think you could use some tempering, and this ban is a step in the right direction.

Gonna resolve this.