[NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

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FreshestSoup
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:22 pm
Byond Username: FreshestSoup

[NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by FreshestSoup » #510646

Byond account and character name: FreshestSoup, William Dornan (Was "THE MIME" at the time)

Banning admin: NecromancerAnne

Ban type (What are you banned from?): All antagonist roles.

Ban reason and length: Banned from Roles: Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Devil, Internal Affairs Agent, Malf AI, Monkey, Space Ninja, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Servant of Ratvar, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard, Hivemind Host permanently - This ban is a temporary measure. Killed a freshly spawned player as a changeling and then DC'd. Also worth discussing is going absolutely loud as hell as a team antag (changelings with a team objective are a team) without much consideration for your team or contacting them until rather late into the round already, which is also worth addressing here. Please come to the forums to discuss the matter further. This is your first noted offense for this, but we do need to discuss this over a medium with some level of transparency and not over discord, which is how you contacted me about this matter.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2019-08-26 05:55:18 , PST

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil

Your side of the story: At the beggining of the round I rolled mime, and then found out I was a changeling, and quickly looked at my objectives. After finding, at the time, that I had a team antag objective, which was to impersonate and kill the engineering department, I decided to talk over the changeling hivemind in order to see who everyone was, and affirm if we had the same objectives - but I got no response. I waited a bit, and still, found that I wasnt getting any response from the other changelings, so I believed they must have been new / AFK at the time. I began killing members of engineering, and security as well to make my job easier, and take their DNA. This led to me killing more people, all the while I was attempting to contact the others on the changeling hivemind. After killing another member of the engineering department in the maintenance rage cage on pubby, I finally got a response. I found out who they were, but was very quick as security was nearby. I couldnt fully explain the situation. Also, now would be a good time to mention that at the end of the round, the other changelings did not have the same team antag objective that I had, which was to impersonate the engineering team. As I continued killing people, I didn't use any of my changeling abilities often either, save for once in central hallway with adrenals, and once in maint with fleshmend, which didn't compromise my status as a changeling. After running out of maintenance, I saw the chaplain entering the tube to the chapel on pubby, and promptly killed him, knowing that the person with access to a cremator would be a good target to take out. This is where I failed to recognize he had just spawned, and I understand this is the part I fucked up on for not being observant of my surroundings and the round. Afterwards, I ran down central hallway, and got the message from NecromancerAnne that he had just joined, and as I sent a reply stating something along the lines of "Shit, fuck, sorry, I'm going to get to a more secure place and talk" my internet abruptly died for the next two hours. As I couldn't contact NecromancerAnne any other way, I opened the discord app on my phone to simply state that my internet was dead, and asked if this would require me to post on the forums.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I am not saying that me killing the chaplain who was a late join should be appealed or anything, that was entirely my fault. I failed to recognize he was a late join, and am willing to accept punishment for that action. What I however believe, is that I should not be punished for the uncontrollable event that was my internet cutting out directly after getting an admin message. I had no control over this, and I merely asked over discord what the next actions to occur should be, and inform them that my internet, at the time, was dead. Also, the other changelings who spawned during the shift with me did not have the same team antag objective that I had, and failed to communicate with me very well either, and the killings I was performing were done to ensure a victory for my team.

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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by NecromancerAnne » #510662

Hey, thanks for the appeal. I'm going to straight up say that I'm lifting the ban since this is your first offense and the blanket antag ban was simply to cover any uncertainty about your disconnection. But I will be leaving a note with much the same information.

I want to just stress that while I can absolutely understand accidentally killing fresh arrivals, which can happen on accident given that some of maintenance ducts around arrivals being a high traffic area, especially on Pubby, this wasn't an instance of where someone hopped off the boat and immediately started to attack you (I've been in that scenario, it's not fun). You did actively turn around and kill him so you did break the rule about hunting in and around arrivals and killing new arrivals.

I believe you and to ensure complete transparency, here is the message you sent me over discord. I did stress that we couldn't discuss the matter in discord, and that's why we had to talk about it here, in the forums.
Spoiler:
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As for the team antagonist part, I did actually notice while amending the objectives of the other changelings that you all had different objectives. Likely it was updating that objective for every changeling added by the mode, since I think you yourself had three targets, the other two had two targets and the first changeling had only one target. That's probably a pretty serious bug, but you do unfortunately still count as a team antagonist. I did tell the other two once I had amended their objectives that even though they didn't have that objective anymore to still act as a team and will be treated as a team antag. Code problems are not really an excuse to ignore the intent of making your a team, the game still thought to make you a team and you probably should still act as a team.

You were probably going to do fine either way, since you were honestly not being presented much issue from opposition in the round to your activities and since nothing stops antagonists even as a team from rampaging as hard as possible to get as much an advantage as they can. But having some preplanning with your team would have been a smart idea so they can get input. Especially since, as changelings, you can shift identities and it would be really unfortunate, more so even, if you ended up killing one another accidentally and absorbing them. That's more so just a general warning, and it's understandable to not have been aware of the fact that you were even an team antag as long as you were since, well, we've not had Changeling Teams until dynamic came around and started adding them again.
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skoglol
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by skoglol » #510719

Oh goodie, another "killed someone near arrivals" ban. I wanna clarify that the rules page states:
4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals.
This does not equate to "killing anyone near arrivals as you pass by", and enforcing it as such is not fair to anyone. The rule pretty heavily implies intent by specifying "spawn-camping". If the chaplain was going to the chapel through the chapel main entrance, he may just as well have come from medbay as the arrivals shuttle.

Here is some precedent on the matter: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 0&p=490745
The cases are similar, where the security officer had entered his place of work before getting killed.


This one is also part of rule 4.
Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team.
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by NecromancerAnne » #510752

skoglol wrote:Oh goodie, another "killed someone near arrivals" ban. I wanna clarify that the rules page states:
4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals.
This does not equate to "killing anyone near arrivals as you pass by", and enforcing it as such is not fair to anyone. The rule pretty heavily implies intent by specifying "spawn-camping". If the chaplain was going to the chapel through the chapel main entrance, he may just as well have come from medbay as the arrivals shuttle.
This is Pubby, this means the entrance tube is immediately inside of arrivals. He hadn't even entered that before he was killed, he had just stepped into arrivals and was making his way over to the pneumatic tube. We also can rule as to how far into the station it counts, but this was extremely clear cut. It was quite literally in arrivals, so there is no doubt about this. Check where I stated it was Pubby in the reply. Claiming that this was somehow to far into the station is false, and you clearly didn't bother to check the logs as to what station map this was before making this claim.

This one is also part of rule 4.
Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team.
That's just to say you can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't hurt you team. Not actually really noteworthy in of itself but worth adding as an addendum of what occurred in the round in addition to the spawn killing. If anything, it's a request to slow down and check your notes before jumping into it.

All in all, this is a significant amount of attention for what is essentially very quickly resolving a matter both myself and FreshestSoup wanted done with, that for me to be done in a transparent matter that would never have even touched this forum had he not disconnected in the round I contacted him. That's literally the only reason this has occurred. Unless a headmin wants to come in and tell me to remove the note for what is a fairly clear cut though first instance of hunting within arrivals, then they can though this was at it's core to resolve a administrative matter in an appeal because it couldn't in-game.
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skoglol
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: [NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by skoglol » #510753

NecromancerAnne wrote:
skoglol wrote:Oh goodie, another "killed someone near arrivals" ban. I wanna clarify that the rules page states:
4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals.
This does not equate to "killing anyone near arrivals as you pass by", and enforcing it as such is not fair to anyone. The rule pretty heavily implies intent by specifying "spawn-camping". If the chaplain was going to the chapel through the chapel main entrance, he may just as well have come from medbay as the arrivals shuttle.
This is Pubby, this means the entrance tube is immediately inside of arrivals. He hadn't even entered that before he was killed, he had just stepped into arrivals and was making his way over to the pneumatic tube. We also can rule as to how far into the station it counts, but this was extremely clear cut. It was quite literally in arrivals, so there is no doubt about this. Check where I stated it was Pubby in the reply. Claiming that this was somehow to far into the station is false, and you clearly didn't bother to check the logs as to what station map this was before making this claim.
You completely missed the point here. The fact the tube is in arrivals means that the chaplains prescence in arrivals wasn't an obvious indication that he had just joined the round. It could just as well be a chaplain just returning to his office from somewhere else.

But I don't want to turn this into peanut posting. I linked you some precedent relevant to your ruling, it's up to you if you want to let that sway your opinion or not.
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by NecromancerAnne » #510784

He arrived into arrivals as the chaplain literally walked off the ship in view of him, and FreshestSoup turned around to kill him. I was watching. There wasn't any real doubt about what happened from that perspective.
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Krusvik
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:19 pm
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] FreshestSoup - Antag Ban

Post by Krusvik » #511358

Looks like everything has been said and this is resolved.

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