[Names Are Hard] rockcabbage - Job Ban

[cvbuilt]

BYOND account: rockcabbage
Character name: Chorgie Vanderbilt
Ban type: Captain/HoS Ban
Ban length: 1 Day
Ban reason: "Killing chaplain for repeated B&E during cult round" (Something to that effect, no admin notes were made)
Time ban was placed: ~1:20 AM EST
Server you were playing on when banned: Bagil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 118172

Your side of the story: As captain I started the round by grabbing my gear and checking my crew on the bridge console, I went to check on the HoP when as I entered his door was being hacked, so I stood and waited. When the door popped the chaplain was on the other side, and him and an assistant ran in. I backed off to bridge hallway and called for the chaplains execution over sec radio (As the sec crew consisted only of HoS, detective, and 1 officer in a ~50 player round, I thought capital punishment for capital offences was reasonable here) I go to make an arrest record on the bridges security records console to find that the chaplains records have been deleted.
Shortly after it turns out to be a cult round. I start making my rounds with the HoS in my hardsuit to start killing cultists, we split up and I go to check xenobio. As I pass through science I see the chaplain wearing the RDs cloak at the robot control console. I enter the RDs office and start shoving the chaplain against the wall repeatedly to give him time to say his piece, explain, etc. The chaplain stun batons me after a couple seconds, and I shoot him into crit with my energy gun on harm. I start carrying him to medical to be cloned and punished, when constructs and cultists start running around the entrance of medical. The chaplains body gets dropped and I retreat to the bridge to charge my gun.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I acted as a captain to kill an antag. This is not in violation of /tg/ rules. The admin seemed to put down that ban reason out of complete spite, as I explained to him multiple times that the chaplain was self antaging before there was any knowledge of a cult round. Names Are Hard said something to the effect of "I'm done hearing this" and sentenced the ban. I don't know if the admin was simply having a bad day or what the deal was. Seems like completely unacceptable behavior from someone responsible for managing the minuscule player base of an extremely niche and extremely donation-oriented game. I hope Names Are Hard will check logs before issuing bans in the future. Shoot first and ask questions later is not proper administrative behavior.

Pertinent logs: https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/1181 ... e/2#681709

2019-09-09 04:45:25 104 135 2 Bridge SAY Rockcabbage/(Chorgie Vanderbilt) "Kill Kraven Lockharte on sight"

The chaplain was self antagging well before any knowledge of cult

2019-09-09 04:46:55 120 135 2 Captain's Quarters SAY Trexter555/(Kraven Lockharte) (priority announcement) "AA HOP OFFICE AND ARRIVALS"

and continued to do so before any cult was discovered.

2019-09-09 04:48:45 126 77 2 Starboard Quarter Maintenance SAY Trexter555/(Kraven Lockharte) "CULT"



Pertinent rule: Rule 1.5

Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.*

[NamesAreHard]

You killed the chaplain after he explained what he was doing in the RD's office (reviving the AI), and that it was a cult round. Tresspassing might be a crime, but as the captain you are expected to be able to tell when someone is trying to harm the station and when they are trying to help. In this case, there was plenty of evidence available for you to tell that the chaplain was in the RD's office for a legitimate reason.

[cvbuilt]

Why would I believe an antagonist?

[NamesAreHard]

Breaking into the HoP's office, while a crime, is not a particularly good indicator of whether someone is an antagonist or not. Assistants break into the HoP and captain's office all the time. Secondly, you killed the chaplain after you should have been well aware there was a cult, without even taking any steps to verify if he was actually a traitor or not. Third, the chaplain was not, in fact, an antag.

[Istoprocent1]

Strange things have been happening lately on /tg/ and hopefully we can find a way to have them stopped. Less and less things seem to be an IC issue these days.

The guy is in the right to do all of these things as he pointed out:

1.5 Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.

If the chaplain tried to break into these areas within a reasonable amount of time from the roundstart, lets say 10 minutes, then they would have chosen to make themselves valid. IC issue.

The intent isn't important either as long as they do this specific thing within specific amount of time they choose to put themselves at the mercy of others (ie. become valid). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Aside from that the amount of time that has passed between the crime and punishment is irrelevant, since criminals don't usual just give themselves up and one has to chase them down for the reminder of the shift. What makes the case even worse for the chaplain is the fact that they used restricted or deadly weapons against the captain. If the captain did something iffy with the body, then as long as they didn't destroy it permanently, they should be good as well.

Only time this should probably be avoided is when Nukies declare War.

[NamesAreHard]

This would be fine if the captain had executed the chaplain before he was aware there was a cult, but the killing was done well after he should have been aware of the cult's existence. He's essentially shot the crew's ability to fight the cult in the foot. I didn't ban him because I thought he was escalating badly or killing wrongly, I banned him because killing the crew's best weapon against a cult when there is a cult is a sign of extreme incompetence in a head role. It's akin to executing a crewmember for being in the armory during war ops.

[cvbuilt]

It comes down to rule 1.5 ultimately, we can talk all day about whether or not capital offences are indicative of antag status. I was completely in the right killing the chaplain for breaking into HoP office and bridge less than 5 minutes into the round. /tg/ specifically has a rule to permit this, ergo a job ban was completely out of line. If you truly fail to see how I was acting completely in the green here given the rules of this server and the information I had as captain, I will be making a complaint.

[teepeepee]

This would be fine if the captain had executed the chaplain before he was aware there was a cult, but the killing was done well after he should have been aware of the cult's existence. He's essentially shot the crew's ability to fight the cult in the foot. I didn't ban him because I thought he was escalating badly or killing wrongly, I banned him because killing the crew's best weapon against a cult when there is a cult is a sign of extreme incompetence in a head role. It's akin to executing a crewmember for being in the armory during war ops.

with the addition of dynamic mode assuming the chaplain is not an antagonist because of a cult presence is not optimal anymore
if the player suspected the chaplain of being an antagonist, the cult presence indicates it might be dynamic or cult
with a 50/50 shot, and particularly because the chaplain made themselves valid, can the player really be faulted for doing what he did?
also as a side note: admins always mention "x was not in fact an antag" like it means anything when the banned player probably has no way of having known about that, please be mindful that players do not have perfect information like you do as aghosts who can pull up logs and antaghud
if this comment is deemed not peanut policy compliant, at least leave the dynamic mode thing mentioned somewhere please

[NamesAreHard]

I never said that the presence of the cult guaranteed that the chaplain wasn't an antag, what I said was that breaking into the HoP's office isn't a good indicator of antag status.

[NamesAreHard]

I stand by my decision. I will be denying this appeal, complain all you want.