[HommandoSA] maskenary - fusion leak

[maskenary]

BYOND account: maskenary
Character name: Reider (some plasmaman number I don't rememeber)
Ban type: Jobban and server
Ban length: 1 month jobban, 1 week server
Ban reason: Player's fusion mix managed to kill nearly every single person on the station. The temperature throughout the station was enough to kill anyone in the area in under a minute. This player has a previous ban for fusion mishap and should have known to be more careful.
Time ban was placed: 2019/9/26 06:29:04
Server you were playing on when banned: Bagil I think
Round ID in which ban was placed: 120109
Your side of the story: I set up some fusion, got it going, and got a live fusion can. I go "Anyone want to buy a live fusion can?" on radio and someone offers 5 grand and says "I'm right outside atmos". I drag the fusion can outside of atmos but for some reason there were 3 people outside.
Fast forward and I have about 6 fusion cans and I'm pretty sure a meteor hit atmos because I saw an alert with "minor debris is expected". A fire spread, which opened the other cans.
Why you think you should be unbanned: The first rad spread was kind of my fault, though someone did ask for a live can. Though the second one with "the temperature throughout the station was enough to kill anyone in the area in under a minute" was out of my control. I think this ban should be reduced at least.

[Reyn]

Rule 5 Precedent 4

Abuse of position; as in being deliberately incompetent or malicious in their position is not allowed. Deliberate incompetence or malice can result in warnings or bans, depending on severity. Example would be a chemist constantly abusing the position to make space lube and lubing hallways, they may be warned and then jobbanned if further abuse happens. Letting fusion leak like that may fall under deliberite incompitence. It is not for me to decide on that, or to say if I support this action or not, but It may fall under this.

I shall not bring any further opinion in on this matter.

[HommandoSA]

The first rad spread was kind of my fault, though someone did ask for a live can.

I'll give a proper reply when I have time, but I didn't factor this into the suspension due to the fact an antag took your can.

[Reyn]

The first rad spread was kind of my fault, though someone did ask for a live can.

I'll give a proper reply when I have time, but I didn't factor this into the suspension due to the fact an antag took your can.

He GAVE the antag the can, it wasn't stolen.

[HommandoSA]

The first rad spread was kind of my fault, though someone did ask for a live can.

I'll give a proper reply when I have time, but I didn't factor this into the suspension due to the fact an antag took your can.

He GAVE the antag the can, it wasn't stolen.

That still isn't what I banned him for.

[maskenary]

The first rad spread was kind of my fault, though someone did ask for a live can.

I'll give a proper reply when I have time, but I didn't factor this into the suspension due to the fact an antag took your can.

He GAVE the antag the can, it wasn't stolen.

Didn't know was antag, he offered to buy a can

[HommandoSA]

RoundID: 120109 Source Statbus Scrubby

I was observing this round watching an antag running around with a canister spewing nuclear particles and turning anyone who came near them into a walking Fukushima. Didn't particularly care where they got it until I saw this in dead chat.

04:47:57 SAY Robustitron/(Jimmy Little) (DEAD) "im really tired of being irradiated to death in engi" (163, 133, 2) Shared Engineering Storage
04:48:28 SAY Robustitron/(Jimmy Little) (DEAD) "yea the retarded plasmaman atmos who fucks up engi every round somehow" (150, 128, 2) Starboard Maintenance
04:48:33 SAY Robustitron/(Jimmy Little) (DEAD) "i mad"

This put you on my radar, but I wasn't gonna do anything since Jimmy didn't ahelp and neither did anyone else. I wasn't even concerned about how the antag got your can, even though you could have ate a ban right then and there based on what had already happened to the station and your chat logs, you knew these cans were dangerous.

Later in the round the inevitable happens.

05:20:33 SAY Maskenary/(Reider LXXII) "FUCK!!" (155, 114, 2) Starboard Maintenance
05:20:39 SAY Maskenary/(Reider LXXII) "EXPLOSION IN FUSION AREA!!" (155, 114, 2) Starboard Maintenance

This made over half of the station uninhabitable.

05:26:27 SAY PotatoMasher/(Cosmo Rader) (DEAD) "That face when it is 2.45449e+012K degrees and everyone dies" (107, 129, 2) Bridge

05:29:50 SAY exavere/(Isabel Raub) (DEAD) "Temperature: 3.32114e+009 �C (3.32114e+009 K)" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber

I don't care if debris sniped your canister, although I highly doubt that's what triggered this since a fuel tank exploded in atmos prior to the space debris spawn. You had a previous ban warning you about doing dumb stuff with fusion, then you end up making 10 canisters of deathmix.

05:23:06 SAY Maskenary/(Reider LXXII) (DEAD) "i had like 10 cans of e+30" (167, 113, 2) Atmospherics

You're barely dodging a job perma here. I'm not a mind reader who can tell if you're being intentionally malicious, but you were negligent, that many cans under your care managed to explode and made over half of the station uninhabitable. It was so hot the bodies in medbay got husked. Even though I found most of this funny, this isn't something a non-antag should do.

[maskenary]

RoundID: 120109 Source Statbus Scrubby

I was observing this round watching an antag running around with a canister spewing nuclear particles and turning anyone who came near them into a walking Fukushima. Didn't particularly care where they got it until I saw this in dead chat.

04:47:57 SAY Robustitron/(Jimmy Little) (DEAD) "im really tired of being irradiated to death in engi" (163, 133, 2) Shared Engineering Storage
04:48:28 SAY Robustitron/(Jimmy Little) (DEAD) "yea the retarded plasmaman atmos who fucks up engi every round somehow" (150, 128, 2) Starboard Maintenance
04:48:33 SAY Robustitron/(Jimmy Little) (DEAD) "i mad"

This put you on my radar, but I wasn't gonna do anything since Jimmy didn't ahelp and neither did anyone else. I wasn't even concerned about how the antag got your can, even though you could have ate a ban right then and there based on what had already happened to the station and your chat logs, you knew these cans were dangerous.

Later in the round the inevitable happens.

05:20:33 SAY Maskenary/(Reider LXXII) "FUCK!!" (155, 114, 2) Starboard Maintenance
05:20:39 SAY Maskenary/(Reider LXXII) "EXPLOSION IN FUSION AREA!!" (155, 114, 2) Starboard Maintenance

This made over half of the station uninhabitable.

05:26:27 SAY PotatoMasher/(Cosmo Rader) (DEAD) "That face when it is 2.45449e+012K degrees and everyone dies" (107, 129, 2) Bridge

05:29:50 SAY exavere/(Isabel Raub) (DEAD) "Temperature: 3.32114e+009 �C (3.32114e+009 K)" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber

I don't care if debris sniped your canister, although I highly doubt that's what triggered this since a fuel tank exploded in atmos prior to the space debris spawn. You had a previous ban warning you about doing dumb stuff with fusion, then you end up making 10 canisters of deathmix.

05:23:06 SAY Maskenary/(Reider LXXII) (DEAD) "i had like 10 cans of e+30" (167, 113, 2) Atmospherics

You're barely dodging a job perma here. I'm not a mind reader who can tell if you're being intentionally malicious, but you were negligent, that many cans under your care managed to explode and made over half of the station uninhabitable. It was so hot the bodies in medbay got husked. Even though I found most of this funny, this isn't something a non-antag should do.

Question, are you telling me to not make lots of cans of deathmix anymore, or to take better care of them?

[HommandoSA]

Question, are you telling me to not make lots of cans of deathmix anymore, or to take better care of them?

Feel free to make deathmix canisters, but recognize you may be responsible for what happens to them.

[TheMythicGhost]

I'm going to invoke a rarely seen peanut policy rule here, and state that as a general policy regarding incredibly deadly items (e.g TTVs, Voice Analyzer Black Powder Bombs, etc)
You're absolutely responsible for whatever destruction a fusion canister that you sold/gave away to another person/people have on others affected by the use of that regardless of being a person that opens it or not.
It's functionally the same as leaving TTVs in the hall and then a person activates them killing crew members, or having a load of TTVs in your bag set to the default frequency on a signaler.
Additionally, you're just as responsible if you just leave a bunch of canisters of fusion nearby things that could break them easily (e.g. Welding Fuel tanks), but this more so can fall on it being accidental you generally should have protections in place if you're working with highly dangerous gases in atmos.
If you're not an antagonist, you should not be distributing highly destructive items like this and shrugging off the consequences of the destruction it ends up bringing, as you were the end-point cause of it bringing destruction in the first place.

That said, it's also not precedent to ban people if it was an honest mistake as stolen, but according to the logs as stated above, it doesn't seem to be the case of a person getting these stolen.
Feel free to delete this if it's a peanut, but I thought I would state what I have been told in the past regarding things like this from admins and it's relevant.

[HommandoSA]

Anything you'd like to add? Because I'm still not convinced that you weren't responsible for heating up the station to deadly levels and the deaths that followed. Your previous atmos / engi jobban ended less than a week ago and again you failed to take precautions to protect the station and crew.

[Reeeee]

uh, small item(s) of note.

I saw a plasmaman drag a can of active fusion past me at kitchen while i was frying my maint mice. If that was indeed you, "random plasman number wearing atmos stuff", i assumed you were BSAd near immediate. AFTER it had moved past kitchen someone who i assume was the antag noted "i did not know it(live fusion) would be shooting particles" (or words to that effect) very much underlying the fact that YOU spread those rads with complete abandon. You didn't drop the can "right outside atmos", you dragged it around the entire station well past the point of "i'm moving it somewhere safer" and you certainly did not have it "stolen" from you. I think this was case of "holy shit this guy is so banned i am not going to bother to ahelp" on everyone's part. Corrected i guess.

The fuck are fusion cans doing outside of atmos anyway? Dragging a live fusion can out of atmos is malicious. Hell, making more than one is.
Never mind you full well knew that fusion cans have one purpose and that's to fuck up everyone's day, "selling" one is just trying to pass the blame to someone else with clear intent to grief. Irrelevant of the fact that fusion serves no purpose, radiation you spread was already a thing i assumed everyone else noted and ahelped, i assume EVERYONE made the same assumption that it was being dealt with. Yeah, pure grief.

Tl;Dr: Neatly omitted was the fact that this person spread the rads with a live fusion can to entire station BEFORE any fusion fuckery happened or any antag touched it.

I'm not omniscient but "random plasmaman in atmos gear" seems like the same person in question unless said antag was also a "random plasmaman in atmos gear".

[maskenary]

uh, small item(s) of note.

I saw a plasmaman drag a can of active fusion past me at kitchen while i was frying my maint mice. If that was indeed you, "random plasman number wearing atmos stuff", i assumed you were BSAd near immediate. AFTER it had moved past kitchen someone who i assume was the antag noted "i did not know it(live fusion) would be shooting particles" (or words to that effect) very much underlying the fact that YOU spread those rads with complete abandon. You didn't drop the can "right outside atmos", you dragged it around the entire station well past the point of "i'm moving it somewhere safer" and you certainly did not have it "stolen" from you. I think this was case of "holy shit this guy is so banned i am not going to bother to ahelp" on everyone's part. Corrected i guess.

The fuck are fusion cans doing outside of atmos anyway? Dragging a live fusion can out of atmos is malicious. Hell, making more than one is.
Never mind you full well knew that fusion cans have one purpose and that's to fuck up everyone's day, "selling" one is just trying to pass the blame to someone else with clear intent to grief. Irrelevant of the fact that fusion serves no purpose, radiation you spread was already a thing i assumed everyone else noted and ahelped, i assume EVERYONE made the same assumption that it was being dealt with. Yeah, pure grief.

Tl;Dr: Neatly omitted was the fact that this person spread the rads with a live fusion can to entire station BEFORE any fusion fuckery happened or any antag touched it.

I'm not omniscient but "random plasmaman in atmos gear" seems like the same person in question unless said antag was also a "random plasmaman in atmos gear".

Hmm I didn't drag a live can by the kitchen live. I just dragged a can outside atmos then went back to my thing.

[SkeletalElite]

I was in this round. The first tank to get open and cause the station to start heating a load of a shit is because of me. I convinved some moth to open it in the bar backroom (I was a shade) because my master (the chaplain) was an antag and told me to do whatever (and just not to kill some other traitor that I dont remember the name of.) I didn't actually know the contents of the tank were so hot that theyd turn the entire station into a fireball when opened though, otherwise I wouldn't have even stolen it in the first place.

Edit: I mean the theatre, not the bar backroom. That's where it was opened.

[HommandoSA]

I was in this round. The first tank to get open and cause the station to start heating a load of a shit is because of me. I convinved some moth to open it in the bar backroom (I was a shade) because my master (the chaplain) was an antag and told me to do whatever (and just not to kill some other traitor that I dont remember the name of.) I didn't actually know the contents of the tank were so hot that theyd turn the entire station into a fireball when opened though, otherwise I wouldn't have even stolen it in the first place.

Edit: I mean the theatre, not the bar backroom. That's where it was opened.

I looked into this and found the moth in question. From what I'm seeing in the logs this canister didn't end up killing anyone on the station even if it did heat up the area. It wasn't until 15 minutes later that the first explosion took place in atmos and the canister chain reaction began. This was really good info though.

Moth getting pranked by the ghost.

05:05:13 [0x200b67f] (145,125,2) || the canister was set to 1013 kPa by Dragomagol/(Mothemilian).
05:05:17 [0x200b67f] (145,125,2) || the canister Valve was opened by Dragomagol/(Mothemilian), starting a transfer into the air.

This is the first explosion in atmos which is almost certainly the fuel tank that spawns on this coordinate.

Devistation (0) Heavy (1) Light (5) Flash (0) Flame (5)
/area/engine/atmos
(165, 122, 2) @ 2019-09-26 05:20:20:5

[Reeeee]

THE MYSTERIOUS CASE OF DETONATING FUEL TANK. WHO DUN DID IT. It bothered me so;

Logs contain no relevant entries with "fuel" or "tank" at the time, and only I refilled my welder near round start and oxy tank is messed with in medbay.
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... attack.txt
Spacedust mentioned as to be relevant happens AFTER the detonation.
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html
IT JUST SIMPLY DETONATES.
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... 9/game.txt
Unless there are some hidden logs us normies cannot access;

Act of God. Literal.
So, nobody cannot be blamed for the detonation unless i'm missing some cause and effect here. Maybe atmos was too hot for it? Then the blame would be on the Theater tank opened earlier. It would have had enough time to leak heat thru to atmos. Do fuel tanks even detonate from heat alone or do they need a spark?
REGARDLESS, there is no INDIVIDUAL that can be blamed for it, i don't think. Fuel tank decided to blown up because reason X that i assume is the heat from theater, nothing else comes close to being relevant. Unless someone figures a time machine to go back and observe the fuel tank OR THERE WAS A GHOST NEARBY RANDOMLY, it's unsolvable mystery why it went boom.

[skoglol]

Fuel tank probably got hit by a fusion particle and went boom. This is a pretty common mishap, even among experienced atmos techs. The particles might not be logged in the attack log, but are projectiles so probably get logged somewhere.

[maskenary]

Fuel tank probably got hit by a fusion particle and went boom. This is a pretty common mishap, even among experienced atmos techs. The particles might not be logged in the attack log, but are projectiles so probably get logged somewhere.

ah that makes sense

[Sandshark808]

Nuclear particles are only logged when they impact an entity, which I think has to do with the coding of how nuclear particles are ray-cast from their source. See here: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... attack.txt and search for "particle."

Similarly, radioactive contamination is only logged on items: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... ation.html

[capn_monkeypaw]

Fuel tank probably got hit by a fusion particle and went boom. This is a pretty common mishap, even among experienced atmos techs. The particles might not be logged in the attack log, but are projectiles so probably get logged somewhere.

ah that makes sense

I've seen this happen many, many times with similar results.

[HommandoSA]

The server ban has expired and I'm still convinced the job ban was appropriate. I'm denying this appeal unless a headmin wants to overrule.

[Hulkamania]

Always fusion responsibly. A fusion canister is much like a bomb given how much destruction potential it has to cause. Even if you did not fully intend for something bad to happen, you still are handing off something a high potential for death to random circumstance.