[Gamarr]Silas Faust(Note, not ban)

[Amelius]

Byond account and character name: Amelius, Silas Faust.

Noting admin: Gamarr

Note reason/time emplaced: 15-Jan-2015 | 'Being a greytiding atmos tech who stole from EVA for your own gains.' in his own words.

Your side of the story: This is not an OOC problem, and thus does not belong in a note. I also challenge Gamarr's toxic attitude toward inventions and other creative work, calling them 'toys' that do not serve the station.

To explicate, I stole the RCD from EVA for a legitimate, station-helpful usage, around an hour into the shift. The legitimate usage? To destroy two floor tiles in a walled-off portion of atmospherics for a waste cooling loop that would make toxic fires no longer clog waste, and filters far more efficient. Perhaps this may justify an IC brigging and a confiscation of the item at most, because it is still stealing and against Space Law, however, in the end, it is not strictly for my own gain, as it is to to the benefit of Nanotrasen to have a more robust atmospherics loop. Furthermore, this does not justify a note, or any form of OOC punishment, tangible or not, as stealing is not against the rules. Notes determine future punishments, and therefore there is reason to challenge them.

Furthermore, greytiding entails that I'm going around, wrecking things, stealing everything, and being a shit to everyone I meet, but that round, until up until I stole the RCD, I had stayed in atmospherics for almost the entire shift, was polite and helpful to all those who entered, even to the Bartender who promptly killed me at a point, and even asked for help from an engineer to create the door to the chamber when I needed it. I suspect the only reason I didn't ask the CE for the RCD, was because it added additional work onto something that I was eager to get it going that was nearly complete (I only had figured out that the only way to remove the tiles would be the RCD after the door and such were installed).

Additional context is available, but they are 'two seperate things', as Gamarr says.

[Ahammer18]

A number of things:

1. Notes are not a punishment. They are a note. They are so admins can tell if you know better when you actually get in trouble.

For instance, if we get an ahelp that says you're releasing the singularity fnr, and you feign ignorance, we can check your notes to see if you're actually new. Knowing whether or not they knew better is the difference between a note and a ban.

2. Admins can leave notes at their own discresion. Even if it was an IC issue you were still being an idiot, so now that we know you have a history of that it will be taken into account if/when you actually get in trouble.

[MrStonedOne]

Well, to expand on what ahammer said

Plays have appealed their notes before, old man being the most notable example.

And if a player is gonna get judged by their notes, they have every reasonable interest to want ensure they reflect the truth of the situation.

[Ahammer18]

In this situation, MSO is right. The note should be amended, but not removed.

EDIT: I have notified Gamarr of this.

[Hibbles]

And just to add my voice to this, notes are used A LOT by admins when we decide whether this was one unfortunate lapse in judgement or a person who's worse than Mussolini. You can accumulate them without necessarily realizing, change your playstyle, and then a year and a half down the road get roundly fucked. Appealing them is perfectly legit.

[leibniz]

seems IC issue to me, not noteworthy

[Tsaricide]

'Thinks its ok to break into EVA and steal the RCD for his own uses.' This is what the note actually says, " 'Being a greytiding atmos tech who stole from EVA for your own gains.' in his own words." was what gamarr told him in deadchat.

I saw the whole thing happen and I don't agree with warning a player for taking the rcd from eva to do atmos stuff with.

[Gamarr]

I do not hate creative inventions, and actually rather enjoy construction with station furniture things or using the plethora of small tools to make gizmos (signallers/beam emitters/etc) so the claim is rather false. However, I call it your toy because you seem to think that your pet project alleviates you from just being a thief or your whole thing of being unable to understand that there were perfectly legit ways for you to get an RCD and you chose to just 'Let's break into secure EVA and steal this one.'

-You have a boss, CE, who quite possibly might have given it to you, HAD YOU ASKED.
-Cargo exists for this sole kind of purpose, where they could make an RCD in the autolathe easily, HAD YOU ASKED.

Greytider can mean lots of things. At its base, though, it might be argued that it is 'You put yourself and your pleasure above everyone and everything else, to their detriment.' You DO what you WANNA. That is the problem with the whole thing, and why my opinion regarding this note should stay; you still do not seem to get that everything could and would have been avoided had you simply been nice and talked to someone because you wanted to steal it instead, and see no problem with it.

[Timbrewolf]

This isn't noteworthy. Please remove the note.

[Gamarr]

I've been overruled on the issue of the note and someone has removed it. Give Silas time to comment if he wishes and probably lock this after awhile if he hasn't in a day or something I suppose as it's been resolved.

[Amelius]

I call it your toy because you seem to think that your pet project alleviates you from just being a thief or your whole thing of being unable to understand that there were perfectly legit ways for you to get an RCD and you chose to just 'Let's break into secure EVA and steal this one.'

You make it sound more malignant than it actually was. The reality was sheer excitement - I made something that I had never made in the past, and I wanted to finish it in immediacy. It was that sense of positive creative urgency, with the RCD was the last thing I needed to complete it that spurred on the theft - not hatred of command, or security, or anything of that manner. After being shot and killed halfway through construction by a changeling, and after hassling with the two existing rungs of interior pipes (that I did not realize were there until I had already laid all the pipe), I wanted to finish it now not later, not after going through official channels, asking for someone who may or may not respond, who may or may not be able to come immediately, who may or may not give one to me, who may or may not shoot me dead just like the atmos tech did. Cargo is not always willing to expend an insane amount of metal for an RCD, let alone have an active member. There was a direct, quick and harmless route to completing everything, and that is why I did it.

Greytider can mean lots of things. At its base, though, it might be argued that it is 'You put yourself and your pleasure above everyone and everything else, to their detriment.' You DO what you WANNA. That is the problem with the whole thing, and why my opinion regarding this note should stay; you still do not seem to get that everything could and would have been avoided had you simply been nice and talked to someone because you wanted to steal it instead, and see no problem with it.

How does stealing the RCD for a moment deprive a single person of enjoyment in the game? If someone was looking for the RCD and asked engineering or common where it was, I'd happily respond that I was using it at the moment. To whose detriment did my actions act against? My view of greytiding is that greytiding is malignant - being shit because that is your fun (and if it wasn't fun for many, then why would it be so popular?!). Did I elicit enjoyment by stealing the RCD? No way. Did I from creating my 'toy'? Yes. That's a positive result, and, in my opinion, not greytiding. The intention and emotion is in the polar opposite direction - passion, interest, and happiness.

This is why I stick with my belief that it wasn't a mistake. Perhaps I was too excited, and should have gone through proper channels, but, heck, if you're excited about something you don't want to expend the extra time and effort to do so, and entirely justifiably so.