/tg/Station 13

by **confused rock** » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:49 am #566701

BYOND account: The unloved rock
Character name: Is-A-Lizard
Ban type: Security Jobban
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Head of Security, Warden, Security Officer permanently - Banned for murder - As a security officer, improperly escalated an event with three crusaders leading to all three of them being killed by him. Ignoring the fact that he precipitated the events by telling them he was going to do so, going to security to get armed and then using this escalation as justification to kill them, he ignored CentComm direction to not harm them and admitted to acting with incomplete information when dealing with them. Given lengthy note history pertaining to similar circumstances, I don't believe this player has any reason to play security for some time.
Time ban was placed: 2020-06-22 03:27:07
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 140134
Your side of the story: I was a lone security officer In a round where there was a captain, who promoted someone to the position of "thane" as his bodyguard. I didn't trust this person after they had murdered someone in front of me but other than these two there was nobody else I could expect help from. There was an HOS who was completely dead before this incident occured. Neither of these people were available at the time despite me asking for their help, one because the captain was dead and the other because the "thane" was actually a traitor. I had not spent very much time in the round in the chapel until this event.

The first bit of the round I believe is relevant is that there was a vague centcomm announcement about some sort of angels, or holy people. We were loosely advised to avoid starting conflict with them immediately, but it gave the implication that conflict was an option, though a poor one. this was very early with the round. I don't think I can find it in the logs. Between that point and dealing with the situation I have been banned for I had dealt with suspicions of a scientist planning to plant bombs, dealt with said scientist being murdered by the captain's "thane", the head of security mysteriously dying. By this point I had assumed that whatever the announcement about angels was, had completely subsided. we had recieved a command report a while back, but I didn't have the time to read it. the final situation IIRC before I dealt with the crusaders was pirates attacking the brig, causing me severe blood loss and leaving me dead in medbay for several minutes and unconscious for longer. This left me missing a lot of information in that time period as well. After this I believe i used the HOS' id to check what the command report was, and it said something about holy signals being detected on the station.

At the chapel I had found the chaplain outside, who said they had been driven out of the chapel by the crusaders. Looking into the chapel I saw an empty room with crusaders and a priest in it. I overheard them talking about how they only needed to hold the chapel for five more minutes, which concerned me. At this point I had assumed that whatever the announcement about holy people was so long ago, warning not to start conflict, had resulted in conflict, which is why armed crusaders had driven the chaplain out of his chapel. I wasn't entirely sure what to do. I had asked the captain for help, perhaps from his thane, but I got no response. I was outnumbered by the crusaders and I threatened to kill them, telling to leave the chapel, it doesn't matter how. I then went to brig to prepare if I had to fight the crusaders had they not left the chapel. This is the first point at which I was in the wrong according to the ban, as my threat to kill them if they did not leave was deemed too aggressive and was thus me escalating the conflict. I went to brig, got a riot shield, and when I went back the chaplain was already fighting the crusaders. I helped the chaplain and we ended up killing the crusaders. Afterwards I Went back to brig to figure out why the captain wasn't responding and the rest of the round I don't think is relevant. Aura did not contact me until the emergency shuttle had already left the station.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
I think that this ban is extreme in most areas, from being as bluntly wrong as "banned for murder" to it saying all three were killed by me, to that it was implying that I was doing something wrong by acting without complete information, to "Lengthy note history pertaining to similar circumstances."

I'll start with "Lengthy note history for similar circumstances." I do have a large amount of notes since I've been playing this game for over five years now, but I don't think many of them are pertaining to "similar circumstances". Many of my notes are so old that they aren't visible to me, and of those that are visible, only two of them are related to my conduct as security. One is from 2018 and pertains to me harming one of my prisoners, another is from 2019 and is for not giving a hulk medical help after I had sent them into soft critical condition at only one health below zero, with them succumbing while I was trying to get them first aid. I don't think either of these are similar circumstances to validhunting too hard on manuel.

Next is that I personally killed all 3 crusaders, murdered them as it says, which is just exaggeration. I don't know what would've happened if I had returned to the chapel after demanding the 3 crusaders disperse and they were all still here, but that isn't what happened. What happened is I returned to find the chaplain lethally fighting the crusaders. The fight was in escape, not the chapel, so as far as i could tell they had attacked the chaplain, the chaplain hadn't attacked them. The chaplain was doing decently in the fight on their own too- I didn't murder 3 crusaders, I assisted the chaplain in killing 3 crusaders. Lethal force was reasonable in that situation because I was outnumbered 3 to 1 by crusaders alone- most officers don't even carry that many pairs of handcuffs. With the chaplain, I was still outnumbered by two men with swords and armor and a priest that was effective enough at healing the others that they had went down several times. I was encouraged to use lethal force because the chaplain was already doing so- if I hadn't been there, either the chaplain would've died or the crusaders would've, or both. I didn't start the conflict with the crusaders, either they or the chaplain did. I don't think the chaplain did because I told them to wait for me to come back, but Aura had said that I had escalated the conflict by threatening to kill the crusaders. While that was with usage as an attempt to scare them, I don't see how me escalating the conflict with my words is comparable to having actually started attacking the crusaders.

"he ignored CentComm direction to not harm them and admitted to acting with incomplete information when dealing with them." is something I completely disagree with on several levels.
First off, though I cannot find the exact wording of Centcomm's direction, it was over half an hour before the conflict with the crusaders actually occured so even if I realised those words were still relevant, in my memory they weren't exactly an order not to attack the crusaders- they were more of a suggestion or warning that if you do attack them, you should be prepared for a large engagement. That doesn't mean I wanted to go against centcomm's orders and attack the large horde of baddies, but I didn't even realise those words were still relevant because of how long ago they were- I didn't have access to complete information on the situation because I was the sole security officer trying to deal with a lot of other problems and the captain didn't even provide me with the command report's information at the time it was created.
But acting with incomplete information is part of the game! SS13 is built on the fact that you can't always know everything for sure, and I was just somewhat confused on the situation with the crusaders and what signs I had pointed to them performing a violent takeover of the chapel. What I did know was that these cultists seemed dangerous, and that they just needed to hold the chapel for five more minutes, according to them- I perceived this as there being some danger if I let them control the chapel for five minutes more. When I saw them and the chaplain fighting in escape, of course I didn't know who attacked who first, but what was I supposed to do as an officer? not intervene? The chaplain was a member of the station and the 3 crusaders were invaders. I acted to defend the chaplain. When I said I acted on incomplete information I meant that the whole round was disorienting since I hadn't got access to command reports at the time they were written (if the admins wanted the information to be public about this event, they should've made it an announcement instead), the captain went missing around the same time as I was dealing with the crusaders, and I had missed about 5-10 minutes of information when I was unconscious in medbay. I also was too busy worrying about the bomb threat and the subsequent violence by the "thane" for me to have had any idea what was going on in the chapel before. I was the only security officer facing 3 opponents of unknown danger level but at minimum the level being "has a sword and armor". My first action was to try to scare them out of the chapel, my second was to prepare so I could deal with the situation properly, and the third was for me to discover the chaplain already engaged in combat with them.

"banned for murder" and "all three of them being killed by him" are gross exaggerations when the actual fighting started between the crusaders and the chaplain with me stepping in to defend the latter, the crusaders making no attempt to leave when I demanded it earlier and seemingly encroaching further into the station, acting with incomplete information is said as if it isn't an intended situation in the game and as if I was just going "I see bad man, I click", and "lengthy note history" is only accurate if lengthy means that my notes were all a long time ago. Given that I was completely alone in this situation with no one to help me and that in the beginning of the conflict I was underequipped to deal with the crusaders calmly while when I returned to the conflict it was already violent. I don't think it's fair to permanently ban me from all security roles for helping the chaplain finish off the crusaders.

by **Dr. Aura** » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:00 am #566702

The culmination of circumstances speak for themselves, as does the magnitude of the response in relation to the nature of the offences. If you put a modicum of the effort you spent trying to defend your actions into deciding which actions are proper for the roles you have spent 5 years playing, you wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

by **BeeSting12** » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:47 am #566710

Two command reports were sent during the round, here are both of them:

Spoiler:

Ticket Logs Between Aura/Rock:

Spoiler:

[2020-06-22 03:12:07.805] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): You already know what it is so lets cut to the chance, why did you valid the crusaders
[2020-06-22 03:12:45.156] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): actually it was the chaplain. I did say I was going to kill them but I took a leisurely stroll to the brig to get actually equipped. when I Got back the chaplain was fighting them
[2020-06-22 03:13:13.350] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): I did help them finish them off. it didn't help that the crusaders were implying they just needed to maintain the chapel for five minutes though, made it sound like some cult ritual that had to be stopped.
[2020-06-22 03:14:28.822] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): Well, that is the nature of events, and you do see the jump between chaplin and crusaders calling one another heretics and then how telling them you're going to kill them and then walking off is escalating things a bit, right?
[2020-06-22 03:15:18.102] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): as far as I could tell they had already driven the chaplain out of the chapel. I didn't have a good grasp of what was going on as I was dealing with pirates at the same time and was the only member of security.
[2020-06-22 03:16:43.711] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): So you went off half cocked but somehow had enough information to formulate the plan to just kill them in spite of CentComm messages, leisurely stroll to gear up and take care of it, then do so all the while there was a present and pressing threat? Color me shocked.
[2020-06-22 03:17:28.541] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): what are you accusing me of now?
[2020-06-22 03:18:24.266] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): Accusation implies statement of wrongdoing by one party: I have evidence in furtherence of the wrongdoing as corroberated by multiple parties. I just want to know what you were thinking when you did it.
[2020-06-22 03:19:42.304] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): thinking when I said I was going to kill them was to get them to back down, thinking when they were fighting the chaplain was obviously to kill them. It sounded like hey were pulling off some cult ritual but that round was all over the place so I really just walked into the cult situation. I was just a regular officer so I had to slip into the bridge to see the command reports long after they were reported, I wasn't up to date on the actions.
[2020-06-22 03:21:00.903] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): So again, you operated on incomplete information, but still surmised you had enough to justify killing them all, even after CentComm said not to and you were the one to initiate the conflict by telling them you were going to kill them? Is there something here I'm misunderstanding, or is that an accurate summation?
[2020-06-22 03:22:10.493] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): What, are you saying I need to know exactly what's going on to come to the conclusion that I should defend the chaplain instead of letting them kill the chaplain? I had incomplete information because I Can't be fucking everywhere at once. Centcomms reports were at seemingly random times and the report "maybe don't mess with the angel guys" was so long ago that i had assumed the reason there were aggressors in the chapel was BECAUSE we pissed off the angel guys.
[2020-06-22 03:22:48.553] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): Generally speaking, you should know what you are doing before you do it, yes. That's the MO of security, and you have a record a mile long of having ignored this in the past.
[2020-06-22 03:22:51.942] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): If I'm the one who initiated the conflict by threatening them when they had already taken over the entire chapel, I have no idea what else I was supposed to do in that situation. I don't know who actually ATTACKED first but it certainly wasn't me. Is threatening someone the same as acting on that threat now?
[2020-06-22 03:23:13.282] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory)->The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard): If that is the case, I think I have a suitable resolution.
[2020-06-22 03:23:27.898] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard)->Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory): Believe it or not ss13 is a game designed around having incomplete information and being the lone member of security does not help matters
[2020-06-22 03:27:07.471] ADMINPRIVATE: Dr. Aura/(Tickles-The-Ivory) has created a permanent role ban from 3 roles for The unloved rock. Roles: Head of Security, Warden, Security Officer Reason: Banned for murder - As a security officer, improperly escalated an event with three crusaders leading to all three of them being killed by him. Ignoring the fact that he precipitated the events by telling them he was going to do so, going to security to get armed and then using this escalation as justification to kill them, he ignored CentComm direction to not harm them and admitted to acting with incomplete information when dealing with them. Given lengthy note history pertaining to similar circumstances, I don't believe this player has any reason to play security for some time.

Ticket Logs Between Tanachi/DrAura:

Spoiler:

Logs are taken from the game log from round ID 140134. Lines before/after/between are omitted for irrelevancy.

Whether rock should or should not have made the death threat at the beginning is irrelevant in my opinion as the chaplain already had intentions of attacking the crusaders, and when rock came back, they were already attacking the chaplain. At this point he was pretty much obligated to help the chaplain, so he can't have been banned for killing the crusaders. That would mean he got banned for the death threat which is a moot point when the chaplain already had plans of attacking the chapel so there likely would've been a conflict there anyway.

I'd also like to add something that isn't in the rules but more about the nature of the game: players are required to act upon incomplete information. As far as rock could see, there was a hostile force holding the chapel (and the chaplain seemed to agree with this). He was fairly justified in preparing for conflict there.

by **XivilaiAnaxes** » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:40 am #566715

Is "admitted to using incomplete information" really used as evidence to ban?

This is a game literally based around people not having information.

by **confused rock** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:00 am #566990

Considering Aura's immediate dismissal of this appeal, can I get a headmin to look over it?

by **Timberpoes** » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:52 pm #567197

Dr. Aura wrote:The culmination of circumstances speak for themselves

Utilised the following filters/URL
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/140 ... ey=Tanachi

Crusaders are spawned in

Spoiler:

The Crusaders attack Constanze and Bobby B Beeswax, who then call asking for Sec to help them

Spoiler:

Code: Select all: 02:44:56 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "are you racially profiling my god just because he's a blood diety?" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:44:57 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "You have made the Lord's Home, his very temple, into a den of sin. This DEMONIC symbolism is sure proof of this." (92, 66, 2) Chapel 02:44:59 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "that's fucked up" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:03 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Quiet, you." (92, 66, 2) Chapel 02:45:14 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Recant for your sins, or pay in your blood." (92, 66, 2) Chapel 02:45:17 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "dude" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:19 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Make your choice." (92, 66, 2) Chapel 02:45:21 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "you made a clown appear here" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:23 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "and then it died" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:28 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "MEN, MY PATIENCE GROWS THIN." (92, 66, 2) Chapel 02:45:36 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "please, just give the orders." (94, 70, 2) Chapel 02:45:36 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "theres uhhh, gunna be a holy war soon, in the chapel.." (92, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:42 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "and you say that ME, CONSTANZE, am the one guilty of defiling?" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:50 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "REMOVE THEM FROM THIS HOLY LAND." (90, 68, 2) Chapel 02:45:55 SAY Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "It will be done." (94, 66, 2) Chapel 02:45:59 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "wait what?" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:03 ATTACK The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has thrown the paper - 'Business proposition' (108, 134, 2) Bridge 02:46:07 SAY Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "Leave, heretics." (94, 66, 2) Chapel 02:46:07 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "FOR THE LORD!!" (90, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:10 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has attacked Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) with ritual knife (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90) (91, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:11 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "this isnt land" (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:11 ATTACK Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to head | Damage: 18(rolled 48/57.1981) | WB: -10 (93, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:11 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 72) (93, 69, 2) Chapel 02:46:11 ATTACK Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91) (94, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:12 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "ow!!" (93, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:13 ATTACK Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has attacked [airlock] with the holy claymore (96, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:15 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "FUCK" (101, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:16 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "SHIT MAN" (100, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:19 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "well" (92, 69, 2) Chapel 02:46:20 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "that was" (92, 69, 2) Chapel 02:46:21 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "THEYRE HOSTILE" (102, 71, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:22 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "SEC TO CHAPEL" (100, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:23 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "easier than expected" (92, 69, 2) Chapel 02:46:24 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Well, geez." (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:25 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "THEY'VE TAKEN OVER" (100, 69, 2) Departure Lounge

Is-A-Lizards FIRST interaction with the Crusaders in the entire round, which happens AFTER they attack Constanze and Bobby B Beeswax

Spoiler:

Code: Select all: 02:46:21 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "THEYRE HOSTILE" (102, 71, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:22 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "SEC TO CHAPEL" (100, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:23 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "easier than expected" (92, 69, 2) Chapel 02:46:24 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Well, geez." (94, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:25 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "THEY'VE TAKEN OVER" (100, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:26 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "uughh" (106, 76, 2) Aft Primary Hallway 02:46:36 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "FUCKING PAGANS STOLE MY CHURCH" (101, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:36 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "I suspect that the sinners will return, in greater numbers." (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:38 SAY Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) "ow" (100, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:38 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "there's only 3 baoons in there." (99, 67, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:38 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "AND CUT UP BIBBY" (101, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:39 SAY Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "Yes.." (90, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:41 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I can clear them out." (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:43 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Likely with more weaponry." (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:44 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "please do" (99, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:46:48 SAY Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "They likely seek vengeance." (90, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:50 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "The Lord has spoken to me." (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:51 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "hello, I am going to kill all of you." (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:46:53 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "We must" (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:46:54 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "nice" (96, 69, 2) Chapel 02:47:02 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Hold this land...for five minutes." (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:47:03 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "..probably." (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:47:08 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "get the hell outta here." (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:47:11 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Begone, if you value your soul." (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:47:11 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "go jump out an airlock or something." (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:47:17 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "alright, hold on.." (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:47:17 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "This belongs to the Lord, demon." (92, 67, 2) Chapel 02:47:21 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I'm getting riot armor." (99, 63, 2) Departure Lounge 02:47:23 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "then I kill them all." (99, 63, 2) Departure Lounge 02:47:31 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "can i have a flalsh?" (106, 83, 2) Aft Primary Hallway 02:47:32 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "shut up." (106, 86, 2) Aft Primary Hallway 02:47:34 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Idea." (93, 64, 2) Chapel 02:47:43 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "hi" (109, 85, 2) Robotics Lab 02:47:47 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "can i have a flash or two?" (109, 85, 2) Robotics Lab 02:47:51 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "THEY PREPARE AN ASSUALT!!" (93, 65, 2) Chapel 02:47:54 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I'll try to deal with the chapel thing, alone." (99, 174, 2) Brig

Crusaders planning to kill anyone who enters

Spoiler:

Constanze enters and starts flashing. Both sides escalate to lethals. First lethal used was a crusader attacking Constanze with the Claymore. Constanze retaliated with Dark Blessing.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all: 02:49:14 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (97, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:14 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has slipped on the [PDA-Miss Stockings (Clown)] (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:49:15 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has slipped on the [PDA-Miss Stockings (Clown)] (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:49:16 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to right leg | Damage: 18(rolled 45/57.1981) | WB: -10 (96, 68, 2) Chapel 02:49:16 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 86.5) (95, 69, 2) Chapel 02:49:17 ATTACK Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has grabbed Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.7) (95, 67, 2) Chapel 02:49:21 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "ah shit" (93, 69, 2) Chapel 02:49:21 ATTACK Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has shaken Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) (NEWHP: 86.9) (95, 66, 2) Chapel 02:49:25 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (99, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:25 ATTACK Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 84.3) (98, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:26 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91) (99, 69, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:27 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 82) (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:27 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 77.5) (98, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:27 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:28 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with the flash (NEWHP: 82) (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:29 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 73) (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:49:30 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 66.3)

First attack from Is-A-Lizard happens about 15 seconds after Constanze's first flash.

Spoiler:

Constanze executes the first crusader.

Spoiler:

Constanze and Lizard combined attack the second until the succumb at -41 health

Spoiler:

Code: Select all: 02:50:08 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 29.4) (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:09 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 20.4) (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:09 ATTACK Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has died (BRUTE: 122, BURN: 54, TOX: 8, OXY: 26, CLONE: 0) (99, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:09 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 11.4) (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:11 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "i'm sorry, Constanze." (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:11 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 40.8) (100, 72, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:13 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I thought the situation could wait." (99, 68, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:15 SAY Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) (DEAD) "well that was lame" (99, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:18 ATTACK The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has thrown the throwing star (99, 73, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:18 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to head | Damage: 18(rolled 44/57.1981) (100, 72, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:18 ATTACK The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has threw and hit HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with the throwing star (NEWHP: -14.6) (99, 73, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:20 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with the flash (NEWHP: -22.4) (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:21 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -31.4) (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:22 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -40.9) (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:23 ATTACK The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has kicked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) (NEWHP: -42.6) (98, 72, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:23 ATTACK The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has kicked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) (NEWHP: -45.6) (98, 72, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:25 SAY Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "Thanks" (100, 70, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:25 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) Has succumbed to death while in hard critical with -46.1 points of health! (99, 71, 2) Departure Lounge 02:50:25 ATTACK HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has died (BRUTE: 145.3, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 55.2333, CLONE: 0)

Constanze stabilises the third Crusader

Spoiler:

Finally, Constanze executes the third Crusader

Spoiler:

Code: Select all: 02:51:49 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -49.1) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:51:50 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to chest | Damage: 18(rolled 47/57.1981) | WB: -20 | BWB: 25 (92, 63, 2) Chapel 02:51:50 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -80.8) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:51:51 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -98.8) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:51:51 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has died (BRUTE: 116.1, BURN: 69, TOX: 4, OXY: 25, CLONE: 0) (92, 63, 2) Chapel 02:51:52 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to right arm | Damage: 18(rolled 53/57.1981) | WB: -20 | BWB: 25 (92, 63, 2) Chapel 02:51:52 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -126.6) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:51:55 SAY Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) (DEAD) "laaaaame" (92, 63, 2) Chapel 02:51:57 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/consumable/nutriment (2u)) from the heart to Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) (NEWHP: 40.8) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:51:58 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/consumable/nutriment (2u)) from the heart to Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) (NEWHP: 41.8) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:51:59 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has transferred reagents (no reagents) from the heart to Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) (NEWHP: 41.8) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:00 SAY HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) (DEAD) "real lame" (92, 68, 2) Chapel 02:52:00 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -144.6) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:01 SAY The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "ah yes, clearly I have brought order back to the true, friendly religion" (89, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:01 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has suffered: Open Laceration to chest | Damage: 18(rolled 53/57.1981) | WB: -20 | BWB: 25 (92, 63, 2) Chapel 02:52:01 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -162.6) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:02 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -168.2) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:03 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -168.2) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:04 ATTACK Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to left leg | Damage: 18(rolled 51/57.1981) | WB: -20 | BWB: 25 (92, 63, 2) Chapel 02:52:04 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -181.7) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:04 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -181.7) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:05 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -181.7) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:06 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -181.7) (92, 64, 2) Chapel 02:52:07 ATTACK Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -181.7)

by **confused rock** » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 am #567198

Right, so I was only even partially responsible for the death of only one of the crusaders, the crusaders had been violent before I even made the death threat, the death threat was specifically that I might kill them if they didn't leave the chapel, and the chaplain supported the idea that I had only acted to help them. What am I being banned for again? I've already had to deal with this ban for four days.

by **confused rock** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:21 pm #567570

Note aura went back and banned me from detective as well so yeah, that's a thing that happened. Considering they had to time to add that ban and haven't said a single thing since their immediate dismissal 11 minutes after I first made this appeal, I highly doubt aura is considering this appeal in any way.

by **Stickymayhem** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:39 pm #567578

confused rock wrote:Note aura went back and banned me from detective as well so yeah, that's a thing that happened. Considering they had to time to add that ban and haven't said a single thing since their immediate dismissal 11 minutes after I first made this appeal, I highly doubt aura is considering this appeal in any way.

Considering the consistent ruling that players should not be punished for appealing bans, for the obvious reason that it discourages people from appealing any ban, appropriate or not, I'm lifting the detective ban.

by **Dr. Aura** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:44 pm #567582

Stickymayhem wrote:
confused rock wrote:Note aura went back and banned me from detective as well so yeah, that's a thing that happened. Considering they had to time to add that ban and haven't said a single thing since their immediate dismissal 11 minutes after I first made this appeal, I highly doubt aura is considering this appeal in any way.

Considering the consistent ruling that players should not be punished for appealing bans, for the obvious reason that it discourages people from appealing any ban, appropriate or not, I'm lifting the detective ban.

Considering the initial intent was a full sec ban, I forgot to click one button at the time of the ban, and that I was remedeying it for the sake of consistency with intent as soon as I was informed I’d forgotten, I’ll be reapplying the detective ban when I get back from work.

by **TWATICUS** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:54 pm #567859

First and foremost I need to apologize for the wait. It's no fun being stuck sitting around without a response and its not fair to anyone involved.

Below is a timeline of events for all involved parties. Sections spoilered to avoid an extremely long post. Genessee (event coordinator), Crusadors & Pastor (event roles), Tanachi (station chaplain), and Rock (sec officer)
Logs taken from https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... /game.html & https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... attack.txt

Event setup and announcement

Spoiler:

Initial confrontation between the event roles and the chaplain

Spoiler:

First encounter. Snipets from a very long conversation between the parties outlining their intent and the chaplains objection.

[2020-06-22 02:22:57.792] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "YOU!!" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:25:19.676] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "We will gently ask that you all head out" (Chapel (93, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:25:21.926] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "You are being warned now--convert from your wretched ways to the one TRUE religion, or be FORCED to." (Chapel (94, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:25:43.214] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "if you dont want to be purged, that is" (Chapel (93, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:25:52.693] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Errr...I'm not sure PURGED is the word." (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:25:56.368] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Moreso, enlightened." (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:01.494] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "I really don't care if you wanna espouse some roller skater or whatever" (Chapel (91, 65, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:08.994] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "Your soul, not mine" (Chapel (91, 65, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:13.863] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "pastor" (Chapel (92, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:14.534] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "The Lord must reclaim his house once more." (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:14.942] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "now, would you like to donate blood?" (Chapel (91, 65, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:16.900] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "your call" (Chapel (92, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:22.188] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "his house?" (Chapel (91, 65, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:26:29.170] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "I leased this space from Nanotrasen" (Chapel (91, 65, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:26:45.150] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "and we are hereby, "leasing" this space from you" (Chapel (92, 69, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:32:43.819] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "I am attempting to engage in PEACEFUL negotiations with your Germanic populace, but you do not make it easy." (Chapel (93, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:33:12.713] WHISPER: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "we are still required to retake the chapel" (Chapel (92, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:33:18.392] WHISPER: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Yes, I know." (Chapel (93, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:33:37.506] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "We MUST, we are REQUIRED to take this land for our King." (Chapel (93, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:33:46.935] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "We MUST, we are REQUIRED to take this land for our King." (Chapel (92, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:33:52.129] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "I will not fall for your trickery." (Chapel (92, 67, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:35:03.285] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Again, we give you THREE options." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:35:11.338] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "One, you may leave, and you will be spared." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:35:26.050] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Two, you may convert to our righteous cause, and your place will be ensured in Heaven." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:35:36.359] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Lastly, we will smite you with a divine vengance to take our Holy Land once more." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:35:46.088] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Chose wisely, if you value your life." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:35:51.198] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "again, not your land, I have the lease papers signed in my name" (Chapel (90, 64, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:36:24.050] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "we will do anything if it means taking this land" (Chapel (90, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:36:40.312] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "As Jerusalem was retaken, so will this land." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:36:46.909] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "THE THREE NERDS CAME INTO MY CHAPEL AND STARTED SAYING SHIT ABOUT JEWS AND CALLING ME EVIL FOR KNOWING JEWISH PEOPLE" (Chapel (90, 64, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:37:09.067] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Make your choice quickly, for our patience grows thin." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:37:18.615] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "SOMEONE CONTACT THE NANOTRASEN BASED DEPARTMENT, I HAVE A NEW FILE TO SUBMIT" (Chapel (91, 63, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:38:14.696] WHISPER: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "say the orders and this heretic will be "enlightened"" (Chapel (91, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:38:34.707] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "YOU FOOL!!" (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:38:37.194] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "YOU HAVE..." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:38:47.025] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "THIS IS OUR LAND." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:38:57.990] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "AGAIN, OUR PATIENCE GROWS THIN, WENCH." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:38:58.103] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "you can have the chapel office" (Chapel (91, 64, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:39:02.010] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "which is next door" (Chapel (91, 64, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:40:35.558] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "I will give you ONE. FINAL. WARNING." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:40:44.898] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "explain to me why I should convert" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:40:49.091] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "instead of just threatening me" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:00.740] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "You sully the Lord's House." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:02.867] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "and maybe I'd be more open to it" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:14.057] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Our goal is to RECLAIM our rightful place." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:41.148] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "this has gone on for too long." (Chapel (94, 70, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:44.325] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "wait wait wait wait....." (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:45.260] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Your lechery--your SIN taints this land. Your religion of....BLOOD. Your IDOLATRY." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:49.757] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "the 2 of you either make your choices" (Chapel (94, 70, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:54.754] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "im trying to remember my theology class I had to take to get signed on here" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:41:55.299] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "or we will make it for you" (Chapel (94, 70, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:43:21.395] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "For the name of all that is good and righteous." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:43:34.575] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "I will, in all my mercy, warn you one more time." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))

Chaplain asking for the captains help

[2020-06-22 02:43:40.281] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "Can the captain come to the chapel please?" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))

First altercation between the event roles and the chaplain

Spoiler:

Conversation leading up to the first attack

[2020-06-22 02:43:49.995] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "You have destined your soul to an eternity in Hell, if AND ONLY IF, you do not recant for your sins." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:44:04.750] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "explain to me how I sinned at all" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:44:28.719] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Your soul--your very being has been consigned to Hell for your worship, the very IDOLATRY of this blood god you worship." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:44:56.808] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "are you racially profiling my god just because he's a blood diety?" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:44:57.099] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "You have made the Lord's Home, his very temple, into a den of sin. This DEMONIC symbolism is sure proof of this." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:44:59.096] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "that's fucked up" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:03.797] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Quiet, you." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:14.192] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Recant for your sins, or pay in your blood." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:17.119] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "dude" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:19.025] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Make your choice." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:21.767] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "you made a clown appear here" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:23.842] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "and then it died" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:28.332] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "MEN, MY PATIENCE GROWS THIN." (Chapel (92, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:36.263] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "please, just give the orders." (Chapel (94, 70, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:42.703] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "and you say that ME, CONSTANZE, am the one guilty of defiling?" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:50.491] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "REMOVE THEM FROM THIS HOLY LAND." (Chapel (90, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:55.430] SAY: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "It will be done." (Chapel (94, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:57.248] ADMIN: DSAY: Genessee/(Welds-The-Vents) "ohhh shit" (Chapel (90, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:45:59.059] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "wait what?" (Chapel (94, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:02.829] ADMIN: DSAY: Genessee/(Welds-The-Vents) "things are getting spicy" (Chapel (90, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:07.047] SAY: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "Leave, heretics." (Chapel (94, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:07.426] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "FOR THE LORD!!" (Chapel (90, 68, 2))

Event roles throw the first punch at another party, then go for the chaplain himself and chase them into out of the chapel

[2020-06-22 02:46:10.063] ATTACK: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has attacked Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) with ritual knife (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90) (Chapel (91, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:11.790] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Bobson Dugnutt/(Bobby Bertrand Beeswax) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 72) (Chapel (93, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:11.855] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91) (Chapel (94, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:13.926] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has attacked [airlock] with the holy claymore (Chapel (96, 67, 2))

Rock gets involved

Spoiler:

Chaplain yelling about them, presumably on comms

[2020-06-22 02:46:15.349] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "FUCK" (Departure Lounge (101, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:21.049] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "THEYRE HOSTILE" (Departure Lounge (102, 71, 2))

Rock already in the general area

[2020-06-22 02:46:26.539] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "uughh" (Aft Primary Hallway (106, 76, 2))

Chaplain again

[2020-06-22 02:46:36.203] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "FUCKING PAGANS STOLE MY CHURCH" (Departure Lounge (101, 70, 2))

Rock saying he will help, chaplain agreeing

[2020-06-22 02:46:38.711] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "there's only 3 baoons in there." (Departure Lounge (99, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:41.078] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I can clear them out." (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:44.592] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "please do" (Departure Lounge (99, 70, 2))

Event roles stating they have to hold down the area, rock stating hes going to kill them if they dont leave

[2020-06-22 02:46:50.176] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "The Lord has spoken to me." (Chapel (92, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:51.469] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "hello, I am going to kill all of you." (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:53.581] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "We must" (Chapel (92, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:46:54.894] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "nice" (Chapel (96, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:02.261] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Hold this land...for five minutes." (Chapel (92, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:03.968] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "..probably." (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:08.572] WHISPER: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "flashbang" (Chapel (96, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:08.948] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "get the hell outta here." (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:11.620] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Begone, if you value your soul." (Chapel (92, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:11.923] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "go jump out an airlock or something." (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:17.530] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "alright, hold on.." (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:17.685] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "This belongs to the Lord, demon." (Chapel (92, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:21.347] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I'm getting riot armor." (Departure Lounge (99, 63, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:23.103] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "then I kill them all." (Departure Lounge (99, 63, 2))

Rock leaves, event roles start breaking cameras, chaplain heads to robotics

[2020-06-22 02:47:34.703] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked [security camera] with the holy claymore (Chapel (90, 69, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:47:35.576] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked [security camera] with the holy claymore (Chapel (90, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:36.547] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked [security camera] with the holy claymore (Chapel (90, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:37.530] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked [security camera] with the holy claymore (Chapel (90, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:47:38.624] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked [security camera] with the holy claymore (Chapel (90, 69, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:47:47.701] SAY: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) "can i have a flash or two?" (Robotics Lab (109, 85, 2))

Event roles preparing for them to come back

[2020-06-22 02:47:51.070] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "THEY PREPARE AN ASSUALT!!" (Chapel (93, 65, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:48:10.550] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "if they step in" (Chapel (93, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:48:13.560] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "they're dead" (Chapel (93, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:48:19.817] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "aim for the right lef." (Chapel (93, 66, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:48:21.263] SAY: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) "Remember, we must hold this land for the Lord." (Chapel (93, 65, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:48:23.319] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "leg, even" (Chapel (93, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:48:28.213] SAY: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) "Understood" (Chapel (91, 66, 2))

Final altercation

Spoiler:

Chaplain gets his flashes and does not wait for rock, enters the chapel and starts flashing, gets attacked

[2020-06-22 02:49:14.081] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (Departure Lounge (97, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:14.081] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (Departure Lounge (97, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:14.923] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has slipped on the [PDA-Miss Stockings (Clown)] (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:15.779] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has slipped on the [PDA-Miss Stockings (Clown)] (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:16.834] ATTACK: Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) has suffered: Rough Abrasion to right leg | Damage: 18(rolled 45/57.1981) | WB: -10 (Chapel (96, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:16.975] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 86.5) (Chapel (95, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:16.975] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 86.5) (Chapel (95, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:17.792] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has grabbed Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.7) (Chapel (95, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:17.792] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has grabbed Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.7) (Chapel (95, 67, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:21.474] SAY: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) "ah shit" (Chapel (93, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:21.613] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has shaken Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) (NEWHP: 86.9) (Chapel (95, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:21.613] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has shaken Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) (NEWHP: 86.9) (Chapel (95, 66, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:25.274] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (Departure Lounge (99, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:25.375] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 84.3) (Departure Lounge (98, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:26.161] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91) (Departure Lounge (99, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:27.151] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 82) (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:27.773] ATTACK: HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) has attacked Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with holy claymore (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 77.5) (Departure Lounge (98, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:27.844] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with the flash (NEWHP: 100) (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:28.715] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with the flash (NEWHP: 82) (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:29.859] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 73) (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:30.891] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 66.3) (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))

Rock shows up immediately after,sees this fight, and starts shooting

[2020-06-22 02:49:31.181] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [aesthetic volcanic flooring] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.182] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has shot Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with the buckshot pellet (NEWHP: 86.9) (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.182] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has shot Usnavi/(Pastor Olphert) with the buckshot pellet (NEWHP: 86.9) (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.183] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [aesthetic volcanic flooring] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.184] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [aesthetic volcanic flooring] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.185] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [aesthetic volcanic flooring] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.186] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [aesthetic volcanic flooring] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.598] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has grabbed Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) passive grab (NEWHP: 66.3) (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:49:31.917] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [wall] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.918] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [wall] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.919] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [wall] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:31.920] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [wall] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (97, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.487] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [floor] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.488] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [floor] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.489] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [floor] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.490] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [floor] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.491] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has fired at [floor] with the buckshot pellet from Departure Lounge (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.560] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has shot Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with the buckshot pellet (NEWHP: 77.5) (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:32.562] ATTACK: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) has shot Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with the buckshot pellet (NEWHP: 66.9) (Departure Lounge (98, 69, 2))

Chaplain back in the fight and starts flashing again

[2020-06-22 02:49:32.708] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has flashed(targeted) Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) with the flash (NEWHP: 66.3) (Departure Lounge (99, 67, 2))

-A whole bunch of shooting, flashing, and claymore attacks-

Looks like they get a breather and rock starts to talk, then another event role comes at them

[2020-06-22 02:49:41.486] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "suppose I'm late!" (Departure Lounge (99, 69, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:42.250] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 55.4) (Departure Lounge (101, 72, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:43.207] ATTACK: Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) has attacked HenriqueKill9576/(Crusader Anna) with dark blessing (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 48.7) (Departure Lounge (101, 72, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:43.378] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has shoved Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) (NEWHP: 54.8) (Departure Lounge (101, 72, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:44.295] ATTACK: Bytesol/(Crusader Reynault) has shoved Tanachi/(Constanze Morschaff) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 54.8) (Departure Lounge (101, 72, 2))
[2020-06-22 02:49:45.809] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "you have it all under control?" (Departure Lounge (100, 69, 2))

-Fight starts again, lasers and shotguns and dark blessings, rock and chap finish most of them off-

[2020-06-22 02:50:11.609] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "i'm sorry, Constanze." (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))

[2020-06-22 02:50:13.986] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I thought the situation could wait." (Departure Lounge (99, 68, 2))

-Chaplain finishes off the last event role, rock gets bolted in after a human harm argument with the AI, eventually go their separate ways-

The chaplain had a very long conversation and disagreement with the event roles, and was pretty justified in not wanting them to take over his workplace. The event roles attacked the chaplain and kicked him out of his chapel, so he called for help and rock came to help him. Rock threatened them to leave, came back with gear, and ran into the chaplain being attacked by the event roles so he defended the chaplain. I see no issue with the chaplain objecting to the crusaders demands, so i see no issue with rock defending the chaplain after he called out for help. We've decided to overrule the ban and remove the note.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Overrule.
Phuzzylodgik: Not available.
TWATICUS: Overrule.

/tg/Station 13

[Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

[Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

Re: [Dr. Aura] The unloved Rock - Manuel secban for validing an event too hard

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