[<Dusty_Exaliber>] hanzbartel1 - admin got it right but..

[hundemann]

BYOND account: Hanzbartel 1

Character name: Gerhard Meyer

Ban type: Global

Ban length: 7 days

Ban reason: I cant seem to be able to copy it - I as a paramedic took revenge of someone who put a hars mutation into me, while saying it would be Hulk and leaving me for dead after flushing me down the garbage shute. I was saved after a rather lenghty procedure and took revenge as a non antag. I killed him in the process and brought him to medbay to be revived. Admin says I put him into a morgue and a locker. I put him into a locker before I had him dragged to medbay only a minute after. Someone in medbay must´ve decided to put him into the morgue. That wasnt me tho.. He said he understood the reason I pursuit revenge but I did to much as to leaving him in the morgue.

Time ban was placed: 2021-04-13 22:09:57

Server you were playing on when banned:Sybil

Round ID in which ban was placed: 160224


Why you think you should be unbanned: I have a horrible history but really am trying. i tendo to get carried away by people who just screw others in other words me over. I was doing a normal shift and feel kind of crappy about the whole thing. I have to say while it wasnt cool to leave me for dead and practically ending my shift I do regret not writing to the admins in time. Even though I think I did in between. I am not after foing more trouble.

Anything else we should know: I have a bad history and hope not being judged on my slip ups and hope there is at least some record of good conduct. I wont let myself be provocted by asshats like this geneticist anymore who just made my head explode for fun.
.

[Dusty Exaliber]

(hey look this is my first forum post yay)

Hello there I see you decided to appeal to this ban.

The original reason I went hard right of the bat is well yes mainly due to the previous bad history I thought that giving a far harsher punishment would be for fitting for this case, Initially before seeing the notes for myself I would've at most given a 1 day ban over that whole situation. Usually long as the escalation of it is reasonable or your an antagonist which has much more freedom with this kind of stuff these events bring some life into the round and make stories it brings some conflict and life into the round though that said what what happened there yeah it was an unreasonable retaliation though perhaps I didn't see the whole story as good as I can.

Though I wont unban you entirely since I believe you need some sort of punishment for that event I will shorten it since I felt like I was perhaps a little excessive, ill reduce it down to 3 days unless you or someone else is willing to bring a good Argument to why you should be fully unbanned over this

[hundemann]

Thanks for taking the time and actually replying ! I guess I´m okay with the three days, I did indeed create some havoc.
One question tho, how can I get my name clean ? Do reports like this disappear over time ? How will I in the future not be punished harder for things of the past?

[WineAllWine]

Bans stick around on your account indefinitely. However, time cures all things, after bans have been around a while they literally fade out for admins to see them, and they figuratively fade out in that admins will pay less attention to bans that are from a long time ago when making future judgements.

[Malkraz]

EDIT: I misunderstood how the injector worked. It appears CrazySaucer was self-antagging by misrepresenting a harmful mutation as another and injecting it.
Logs: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... nd-160224/
CrazySaucer offers Hanz a hulk injection

[2021-04-13 21:10:43.247] SAY: 21:10:43.247] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "hello" (Research Division (139,87,2))
[2021-04-13 21:10:45.966] SAY: 21:10:45.966] SAY: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) "want hulk" (Research Division (139,88,2))
[2021-04-13 21:10:48.229] SAY: 21:10:48.229] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "yes" (Research Division (139,87,2))

CrazySaucer injects Hanz with a Hars which fails and causes him to become headless (see edit above)

[2021-04-13 21:11:55.441] ATTACK: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) has injected Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) with H.A.R.S. activator (hulk) (NEWHP: 100) (Nanite Lab (118,86,2))
[2021-04-13 21:11:55.442] ATTACK: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) injected Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) with the H.A.R.S. activator (hulk)(FAILED)(/datum/mutation/human/headless) (Nanite Lab (118,86,2))

Hanz, who can't see or hear, evidently takes this as CrazySaucer intentionally blowing his head off and attacks him

[2021-04-13 21:11:02.276] SAY: 21:11:02.276] SAY: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) "did it work" (Research Division (139,88,2))
[2021-04-13 21:12:50.035] SAY: 21:12:50.035] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "why" (Nanite Lab (119,85,2))
[2021-04-13 21:12:59.616] SAY: 21:12:59.616] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "I cant hear nor see now.. thats mean" (Nanite Lab (119,85,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:23.323] SAY: 21:13:23.323] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "thats really mean" (Research Division (136,89,2))
[2021-04-13 21:15:14.865] SAY: 21:15:14.865] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "vestura the moth tricked me" (Medbay Treatment Center (183,94,2))

[2021-04-13 21:13:51.663] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 96.3) (Research Division (140,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:52.524] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 87.3) (Research Division (140,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:53.532] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 85.3) (Research Division (140,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:55.697] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 77.3) (Research and Development (147,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:56.520] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 70.3) (Research and Development (147,90,2))

Hanz eventually ends up in medbay where he's treated. Several minutes after the initial situation, he returns to kill CrazySaucer

[2021-04-13 21:31:48.870] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has attacked CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) with spear (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 54.3) (Research Division (138,95,2))
etc...

After sperging on the body for a few minutes (during which CrazySaucer logs out), Hanz tosses him into medbay

[2021-04-13 21:34:46.208] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has thrown *no key*/(Vestura Chiangmai) grab from tile in Medbay Treatment Center (182,93,2) towards tile at Medbay Treatment Center (183,96,2) (NEWHP: -149.9) (Medbay Treatment Center (182,93,2))

The last action on CrazySaucer's (who is still logged out) body before his admin revival is Heccer1 grabbing him, presumably to take him to the morgue

[2021-04-13 21:35:15.689] ATTACK: Heccer1/(Harold Stevenson) has grabbed *no key*/(Vestura Chiangmai) passive grab (NEWHP: -149.9) (Medbay Treatment Center (182,95,2))

According to escalation policy:

If a player wrongs you(theft, attacks, etc), you may retaliate.
You may instigate conflict with another player within reason (you can't completely destroy their department, kill them unprovoked, or otherwise take them out of the round for long periods of time) but they are entitled to respond with violence. If you think it's unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round.

The second portion is relevant as it sets a precedent for the sort of actions that justify a player escalating to murder against you in response to your instigation. I think most would consider "removed my head" to be an equal or greater slight than ID theft, and unfortunately CrazySaucer had no real way to convey it was a mistake to Hanz due to the fact he's missing his head.
The very nature of SS13 is a bunch of dopes operating under limited information, as such it appears to be entirely valid for Hanz to take this perceived instigation by CrazySaucer and use it as justification to retaliate with violence as the policy permits.

[hundemann]

Bans stick around on your account indefinitely. However, time cures all things, after bans have been around a while they literally fade out for admins to see them, and they figuratively fade out in that admins will pay less attention to bans that are from a long time ago when making future judgements.

Thanks ! That really does explain it. I guess I´m not marked for life then :)

Logs: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... nd-160224/
CrazySaucer offers Hanz a hulk injection

[2021-04-13 21:10:43.247] SAY: 21:10:43.247] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "hello" (Research Division (139,87,2))
[2021-04-13 21:10:45.966] SAY: 21:10:45.966] SAY: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) "want hulk" (Research Division (139,88,2))
[2021-04-13 21:10:48.229] SAY: 21:10:48.229] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "yes" (Research Division (139,87,2))

CrazySaucer injects Hanz with a Hars which fails and causes him to become headless

[2021-04-13 21:11:55.441] ATTACK: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) has injected Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) with H.A.R.S. activator (hulk) (NEWHP: 100) (Nanite Lab (118,86,2))
[2021-04-13 21:11:55.442] ATTACK: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) injected Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) with the H.A.R.S. activator (hulk)(FAILED)(/datum/mutation/human/headless) (Nanite Lab (118,86,2))

Hanz, who can't see or hear, evidently takes this as CrazySaucer intentionally blowing his head off and attacks him

[2021-04-13 21:11:02.276] SAY: 21:11:02.276] SAY: CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) "did it work" (Research Division (139,88,2))
[2021-04-13 21:12:50.035] SAY: 21:12:50.035] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "why" (Nanite Lab (119,85,2))
[2021-04-13 21:12:59.616] SAY: 21:12:59.616] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "I cant hear nor see now.. thats mean" (Nanite Lab (119,85,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:23.323] SAY: 21:13:23.323] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "thats really mean" (Research Division (136,89,2))
[2021-04-13 21:15:14.865] SAY: 21:15:14.865] SAY: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) "vestura the moth tricked me" (Medbay Treatment Center (183,94,2))

[2021-04-13 21:13:51.663] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 96.3) (Research Division (140,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:52.524] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 87.3) (Research Division (140,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:53.532] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 85.3) (Research Division (140,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:55.697] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 77.3) (Research and Development (147,90,2))
[2021-04-13 21:13:56.520] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has punched CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) (NEWHP: 70.3) (Research and Development (147,90,2))

Hanz eventually ends up in medbay where he's treated. Several minutes after the initial situation, he returns to kill CrazySaucer

[2021-04-13 21:31:48.870] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has attacked CrazySaucer/(Vestura Chiangmai) with spear (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 54.3) (Research Division (138,95,2))
etc...

After sperging on the body for a few minutes (during which CrazySaucer logs out), Hanz tosses him into medbay

[2021-04-13 21:34:46.208] ATTACK: Hanzbartel1/(Gerhard Meyer) has thrown *no key*/(Vestura Chiangmai) grab from tile in Medbay Treatment Center (182,93,2) towards tile at Medbay Treatment Center (183,96,2) (NEWHP: -149.9) (Medbay Treatment Center (182,93,2))

The last action on CrazySaucer's (who is still logged out) body before his admin revival is Heccer1 grabbing him, presumably to take him to the morgue

[2021-04-13 21:35:15.689] ATTACK: Heccer1/(Harold Stevenson) has grabbed *no key*/(Vestura Chiangmai) passive grab (NEWHP: -149.9) (Medbay Treatment Center (182,95,2))

According to escalation policy:

If a player wrongs you(theft, attacks, etc), you may retaliate.
You may instigate conflict with another player within reason (you can't completely destroy their department, kill them unprovoked, or otherwise take them out of the round for long periods of time) but they are entitled to respond with violence. If you think it's unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round.

The second portion is relevant as it sets a precedent for the sort of actions that justify a player escalating to murder against you in response to your instigation. I think most would consider "removed my head" to be an equal or greater slight than ID theft, and unfortunately CrazySaucer had no real way to convey it was a mistake to Hanz due to the fact he's missing his head.
The very nature of SS13 is a bunch of dopes operating under limited information, as such it appears to be entirely valid for Hanz to take this perceived instigation by CrazySaucer and use it as justification to retaliate with violence as the policy permits.

Thanks for going into such detail with the situation. The thing you pointed out is quite important. I DIDN´t drag a dude and locked him into the morgue. Also the injection was quite intended and the guy DID want to make my head explode... Ill look into those policies once again tho, next time I can state some good defense to the admins. I see my feeling of the situation is then not so difficult to grasp..

[Dusty Exaliber]

I guess that is a good enough argument I did that part I just perhaps misinterpret something or didn't think about long enough ok give me a little bit.

[Dusty Exaliber]

OK hanzbartel mans is now free to re-enter the server, ill admit I think I fucked up the thought process a bit when doing this ban here.