[Dannydeleteo] Super Aggro Crag Note Appeal

[Super Aggro Crag]

I don't care about the day ban but I want the note amended because it's inaccurate.

BYOND account: superaggrocrag
Character name: Avudim Gopniki
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1440 minutes
Ban reason: (MRP) After having an IC conflict with medbay overescalated on a clown tk hitting them with a potted plant.
Time ban was placed: 2021-06-05 05:44:32
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 163520
Your side of the story: Earlier in the round I was griefed by the medbay staff. I delivered a clown who I found crawling the hallways in critical condition to medbay and attempted to help them get stabilized. THe medbay staff responded by constantly shoving me, so I shoved one back and picked up his space cleaner and used it to clean up the blood in the room. This caused the medical doctor to go apeshit and try to claw me a bunch. I ran away with the space cleaner because clearly this blood covered lizard was absolutely fucking insane. A paramedic joined the lizard in chasing me and they beat me harshly. After I got up, I went to medical to try and heal my wounds and was told by medical staff I was "unwelcome". They tried to lock me in a cryo tube but, being incompetent, I escaped within 30 seconds. They then beat me into soft crit and attempted to flush me into disposals. They too, failed at this, because they are incompetent, so they settled for just throwing me in maintenance to die. I managed to survive and then I barely managed to heal myself from 89 brute damage by sneaking in and stealing cryoxadone and using a wrench to ghetto-cryo myself to relative healthiness in the shower. I had ahelped their actions but Danny said he "handled it" and it was "valid escalation". Three men beating someone near to death over a single shove is valid escalation. Got it chief! I grabbed a can of spray paint and wrote "MEDBAY QUARANTINE! AIDS!" and informed the crew that medbay is closed because the medical staff are a bunch of monkey-fucking retard homos. By this time, the clown had recovered from his near death, and decided to start lobbing potted plants at me. He struck me twice before I realized it was him using his telekinesis on me, so I struck him with a wrench. As I did this, he kept constantly trying to throw more plants at me and failing. As he was continuously attacking me and missing me, I decided to continously beat the shit out of him with a buckler in my backpack, because I knew for a fact that any damage he did to me was likely going to be permanent given that medbay staff was explicitly hostile to me. He kept missing and I kept beating until he finally managed to land more hits on me but my buckler protected me. Given that he refused to stop attacking me, I refused to stop attacking him, and beat him to death. This time, I decided not to bring him to medbay, because medbay would probably attack me, and they'd just heal this clown and he'd try to grief me more. I attempted to bring him to the crematorium but died due to half the station being in vacuum. In ghost chat, the clown told me to "get fucked" and called me a homophobe, which makes me think that the reason he griefed me was because of the message I spray painted in medical. This leads me to believe that he was not just "ha ha pranking" by striking me multiple times with a thrown object, but was deliberately attempting to kill me with superpowers.
Why you think you should be unbanned: The ban note makes it appear as though I just randomly decided to murder someone for hitting me once. This is inaccurate. I, during the process of this round, was nearly murdered multiple times by a hostile group of people and responded to a clown attempting murder on me by murdering him right back. Prior to this my only interaction with the clown was dragging his bleeding out body to medbay. I can only presume he was bleeding out because he probably got the shit beat out of him for attempting to fuck with someone earlier. My good deed was repaid by having my round fucking ruined by being harassed by medbay and this clown for the rest of the shift. I am understandably frustrated with this, and the fact that I was banned over it while the fuckheads who griefed me in the first place walk scott-free makes me no longer wish to be a part of this community if this is the quality of administration I can expect. Danny may say the clown only struck me a few times. My argument is that if some retard tries to shoot me 50 fucking times and missed 49 shots, it's still attempted murder and I should still be able to respond in self defense.
Part of this appeal was generated by Banbus 0.11.1

[Danny Delete-O]

Hello, Thank you for taking the time to make an appeal. I agree that the note is quite vague and doesnt give anyone the full picture of what happened. The main crux of the issue is the conflict with the clown and yourself, https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-163520/ The logs can be found here.

Having had time to deep dive through the logs and some helpful advice from other admins. I still belive this was over escalation on your part with the clown.

Spoiler:

[2021-06-05 05:25:28.789] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has healed Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) with regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 97.3) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,102,2))
[2021-06-05 05:25:33.378] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has healed Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) with regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 99.5) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,102,2))
[2021-06-05 05:25:37.539] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has healed Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) with regenerative mesh (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,102,2))[2021-06-05 05:25:42.462] SAY: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) "There." (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,100,2))
[2021-06-05 05:25:48.413] SAY: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) "I drank a bunch of cryoxodone and sat in a cold shower." (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,100,2))
[2021-06-05 05:25:50.883] SAY: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) "Now I am better." (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,100,2))
[2021-06-05 05:25:54.551] SAY: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) "No thanks to your medical team." (Aft Central Primary Hallway (163,100,2))

After this point you have healed up from the conflict in medbay, Yes they were not happy with you and would most likely not help you out.

Spoiler:

[2021-06-05 05:29:21.984] ATTACK: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) has threw and hit Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) with the potted plant (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (158,149,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:28.832] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has thrown the potted plant (Fore Primary Hallway (151,154,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:28.909] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has threw and hit Cassen/(Mia Polson) with the potted plant (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Primary Hallway (151,154,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:30.475] ATTACK: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) has threw and hit Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) with the potted plant (NEWHP: 87) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (158,149,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:35.868] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with medical wrench (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 71.1) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (157,149,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:36.931] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with medical wrench (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 69.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (157,148,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:40.728] ATTACK: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) has threw and hit Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) with the potted plant (NEWHP: 74) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (165,147,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:43.038] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with medical wrench (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 68.1) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,144,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:48.626] ATTACK: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) has threw and hit Gofawful5/(Avalona Kifer) with the potted plant (NEWHP: 100) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (166,148,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:49.696] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with medical wrench (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 66.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (164,149,2))
[2021-06-05 05:29:54.997] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Gofawful5/(Avalona Kifer) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 93.9) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (163,148,2))[2021-06-05 05:30:09.069] ATTACK: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) has punched Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) (NEWHP: 55) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,145,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:09.192] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 46.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,145,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:10.897] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 36.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,144,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:12.241] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 26.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,142,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:13.874] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 16.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:15.017] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 6.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:16.391] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -3.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:17.714] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -13.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:19.077] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -23.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:20.173] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -33.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:21.287] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -43.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:22.405] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -53.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:23.430] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -63.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:24.742] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -73.4) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:25.804] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -80.9) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:26.966] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -91.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:28.476] EMOTE: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless... (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:28.479] ATTACK: Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) has died (BRUTE: 199.7, BURN: 5.2, TOX: 0, OXY: 0.666667, CLONE: 0) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:28.480] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -101.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))
[2021-06-05 05:30:29.729] ATTACK: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) has attacked Machinitek/(Stonkem Honkerton) with wooden buckler (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -111.6) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,140,2))

At this point the clown is dead after your fight, The clown instigated it with a potted plant throw and the logs dont show me how many plants he threw at you. Im fine with you critting him, killing him and not atleast leaving him in medbay is where this turns from an IC conflict to Over escalation. From the RP rules, Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen; however, these conflicts should escalate properly, and retribution must be proportionate. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Roleplay_Rules

With all that being said i would like to re word the note to be about the conflict with the clown "Got into a conflict as a non antagonist with another player over said player using telekinesis to throw plants at them. Proceeded to beat the player to death over this, I agree with critting them over this conflict but killing them took it too far. In the future, when you play under roleplay rules, try to slow down your escalation and use porportionate amount of force."

[Super Aggro Crag]

Pretty sure if I dragged the clown to medbay they'd try to murder me again, which is why I didn't bother. Under roleplay rules, shoving someone once allows them to crit me and throw me into maintenance according to you, so I don't see why being beaten with a potted plant doesn't allow me to kill the perpetrator.

[Vekter]

Pretty sure if I dragged the clown to medbay they'd try to murder me again

Which is the point where you either kill them or adminhelp if they kill you so we can look into it.

Edited: Avoid peanut posts please. Removed the part with it.

[Timberpoes]

With regards to peanut policy, we do not mind players highlighting pertinent log entries, highlighting rules or headmin rulings etc. where appropriate.

Peanut policy allows players to:

... post in a thread regarding something they weren't involved in, IF IT IS TO BRING UP/POINT TO/HIGHLIGHT a rule, precedent, or piece of evidence that was missed that is relevant to the situation.

Going beyond that is at best liable to have the peanut parts of your post edited out or at worst have your post deleted.

What turns a factual post into a peanut is the commentary. As such, I encourage BONERMASTER to re-submit any pertinent log entries they feel have been missed or overlooked bearing in mind the following https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44 and its section on the rules regarding public logs.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Given that coders are now working on changing the logging system to log all throws via TK so no one else will get stuck in this situation where the logs don't reflect the reality of the situation, I'd be willing to close this appeal if Danny would amend the note from "overescalated from the clown hitting him with a plant" to something like "overescalated by murdering the clown who was attempting to kill him via plant during a round with an overtly hostile medical staff, please try not to get so heated in the future" or something like that.

[Danny Delete-O]

Hello again, sorry for the delay in posts, The note needs to be re worded, I can understand being upset about the medbay conflict and its not fair to you that we only focus on the conlfict with the clown. Im willing to re word the note to "As a non antag got into a conflict with another player over plants being thrown at them with TK. Overescalated by killing them, and not attempting to revive them or leave them to be treated by others after getting into a fight in medbay (where he was critted and thrown out). Being frustrated is understandable, please avoid jumping to killing other players over these kind of conflicts." Headmins are free to overrule.

[Super Aggro Crag]

That new note is much more accurate and preferable for me. Thank you for being willing to amend the prior note.

[Jimmius]

This looks resolved.