[MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:20 am #631999

BYOND account: carshalash
Character name: Zachary Hensha/AMARETTO
Ban type: Note
Ban Length: N/A
Ban reason: "Asked to be a bit more patient with players new to the server."
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Your side of the story: At the one hour mark into a shift I had noticed that the robotocist was making his phazon, up until this point not a single borg exoskeleton was made and no attempts to do anything silicon related (This was extra annoying as there was an AWAKE posi there and . I chose to announce it to the crew.

[2022-02-20 07:24:15.112] SAY: 07:24:15.112] SAY: bluberry016/(TKRG-192) "cube" (Robotics Lab (143,77,2))
[2022-02-20 07:24:53.081] SAY: 07:24:53.081] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (priority announcement) "No a single borg body was made this shift, let alone an AI shell." (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

Instead of thinking "Oh I better churn out at least one especially for THE FUCKING POSI RIGHT THERE." He continues to make his phazon and gets passive-aggressive over comms.

[2022-02-20 07:25:04.200] SAY: 07:25:04.200] SAY: RiqueGamePlays/(Julius Wright) "cry about it AI" (Research and Development (148,93,2))
[2022-02-20 07:26:22.438] SAY: 07:26:22.438] SAY: Moist Cookie/(HK-47) "Julius why are you trying to build a phazon but no AI shells?" (Mech Bay (146,84,2))

As he showed he wasn't going to do his job, I chose to request a player I recognized to do it for him. At no point did I request harm between either of them.

[2022-02-20 07:26:09.307] PDA: Carshalash/(Amaretto) ( PDA: �standard PDA to Lukas Judge (Assistant)) "please do this mans job for him" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 07:26:16.841] PDA: Bjarl/(Lukas Judge) ( PDA: �standard PDA to Amaretto (AI)) "ok" (Lesser Port Maintenance (119,75,2))
[2022-02-20 07:26:34.092] PDA: Bjarl/(Lukas Judge) ( PDA: �standard PDA to Amaretto (AI)) "windoor please" (Robotics Lab (145,72,2))

Lukas Judge entered robotics for the sole purpose of making cyborg endoskeletons, it was requested that he make them for the posibrain first. At this point me and the borg were pissed and decided to fuck with him while following laws and rules. The robotocist in question chose to lie about the situation to try and have him arrested while continuing to refuse to do his job.

[2022-02-20 07:26:22.438] SAY: 07:26:22.438] SAY: Moist Cookie/(HK-47) "Julius why are you trying to build a phazon but no AI shells?" (Mech Bay (146,84,2))
[2022-02-20 07:26:33.905] SAY: 07:26:33.905] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (binary) "Interfere with the phazon construction to your best ability" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 07:29:03.951] PDA: RiqueGamePlays/(Julius Wright) ( PDA: roboticist PDA to Caleb Fisher (Head of Security)) "Arrest all these assistants in my lab. All of them somehow have full science access and keep stealing everything" (Research Division (139,82,2))

The positronic borg decided to steal the rest of the endoskeleton after HK stole the mech armor, they were not a borg when I made the prior binary announcement. They just wanted to do this after the robotocist fucked with them.

Up until this point I had been given paladin, a majority of the crew had chose to androidify themselves through the chaplains ritual thing. (Seems that uploads are no longer logged? So I just posted his demand I return it after he did law shittery.) I proceeded to ask someone search for uploads with a GPS since this is very cringe and removed protection from a majority of the crew.

[2022-02-20 07:36:55.926] PDA: RiqueGamePlays/(Julius Wright) ( PDA: roboticist PDA to Amaretto (AI)) "AI law 2 return my phazon assembly" (Research Division (140,76,2))
[2022-02-20 07:38:50.054] WHISPER: 07:38:50.054] WHISPER: Carshalash/(Amaretto Engineering Shell-850) "search uploads" (Research Division (139,86,2))

Me and the person that assisted in the search found the rogue upload and proceeded to call him cringe, at that point I decided fuck this dude. I announced my plan to the person who helped where I would be following the order, just not as he wished.

[2022-02-20 07:40:21.074] SAY: 07:40:21.074] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto Engineering Shell-850) "he law 2'd me to return the phazon" (Research Division (128,90,2))
[2022-02-20 07:40:23.591] SAY: 07:40:23.591] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto Engineering Shell-850) "i will be returning it" (Research Division (128,90,2))
[2022-02-20 07:40:29.301] SAY: 07:40:29.301] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto Engineering Shell-850) "by returning it as minerals" (Research Division (133,90,2))

The mech would be shoved into the recycler, I announce to the borgs to come spectate as at this point all 3 of us are pretty pissed.

[2022-02-20 07:41:42.316] SAY: 07:41:42.316] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (binary) "Come to cargo" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 07:41:46.084] SAY: 07:41:46.084] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (binary) "We will be returning it" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

We push the assembly onto the cargo conveyor belt and watch. We are all retarded and realize we have to sprint to waste disposals and watch with joy as the mech is RETURNED as minerals to the lathe for the robotocist.

[2022-02-20 07:43:36.245] EMOTE: 07:43:36.245] EMOTE: bluberry016/(Mini-X.E.D.S.) honks. (Waste Disposal (175,181,2))
[2022-02-20 07:43:38.283] SAY: 07:43:38.283] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto Engineering Shell-850) "B-B-B-B-BASED" (Waste Disposal (178,181,2))
[2022-02-20 07:43:39.706] SAY: 07:43:39.706] SAY: Moist Cookie/(HK-47) "oh we really done it now" (Waste Disposal (177,182,2))
[2022-02-20 07:44:00.718] SAY: 07:44:00.718] SAY: Moist Cookie/(HK-47) (binary) "Amaretto you'll have to tell him the bad news over the intercom" (Waste Disposal (177,182,2))
[2022-02-20 07:44:12.229] SAY: 07:44:12.229] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (priority announcement) "He demanded the phazon be "Returrned" It has been returned to the lathe by being sent through the recycler." (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

While all of this was going down sec was arresting the dude over the stray upload since well, removing silicon protection from 2/3 of the crew over your phazon is pretty fucking dangerous. I don't care, I have 2 assistants helping me and my borgs. All is well.

BWOINK Nevermind

► Show Spoiler

Now at this point, I was already aware about his history of being shit with robotics, he had been using robotics solely to rush phazons every shift prior to this round so I took a little peak on centcomm to see if it was a prior issue. It was, I figured "wow whatever this dude is a cock and it will be sure to bite him in the ass eventually. When I was bwoinked about the situation I figured "Yeah I guess I'll show him this isn't new behaviour.", I got hit with an extremely passive-aggressive (and kinda insulting) response which I didn't expect from melbert.

I'd like this note removed, silicon players are people wanting to enjoy their game and have fun like everyone else. When their only way of getting into the round and being maintained actively ignores them and refuses to assist them they're kind of fucked, if there is only one doctor on a shift and he actively ignores a crit person stuck to a go make meth or make teeth pills for themselves they will actively be bwoinked/shat on by the crew. Depriving people of their chance to enjoy a round solely to powergame for yourself is cringe regardless of the job and you should be shat on if you do it.

I'd like to top it off by the fact that this players behaviour has continued to be like this, every shift is a race to get a bluespace core for a phazon to tide around in.

Post by **mrmelbert** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:19 am #632003

Hi, thanks for the appeal. I don't really have any intention for changing the note.

The entire basis for this ticket occurring was centered around RP Rule 10: Stay in your lane.

Stay in your lane. This means that you should do the job you signed up for and not try and do other people’s jobs for them. If you need something from another player you should attempt to ask them to get it for you instead of just taking it. If there is no one around to do a job or you get permission to help or grab something it is acceptable to stray from your lane.

In this situation, I witnessed you let two assistants enter robotics and get into conflict with the roboticist present because they were not doing their job optimally.
In fact, you never once asked the roboticist to construst you any shells.

All logs taken from https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... 8/game.txt and https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... attack.txt.

The first time you even mentioned the roboticist was 6 minutes into the round, which you insult them and the RD.

Code: Select all

[2022-02-20 06:27:45.806] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (priority announcement) "Mmmmh RD augmenting himself shift start." (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:28:04.811] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "please inspect RD and robotocist julius wright" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:28:04.811] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (HOLOPAD in Starboard Primary Hallway (193,129,2)) "Please inspect RD and robotocist julius wright" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

The first instance of you asking someone to construct you shells occurred 12 minutes into the round. It was not the roboticist.

Code: Select all

[2022-02-20 06:33:32.788] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "hey fudge" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:33:32.788] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (HOLOPAD in Medbay Treatment Center (177,96,2)) "Hey fudge" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:33:34.998] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "can you make me shells" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:33:34.999] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (HOLOPAD in Medbay Treatment Center (177,96,2)) "Can you make me shells" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

The second instance of you asking about shells, 14 minutes into the round. Also, not the roboticist.

Code: Select all

[2022-02-20 06:36:46.486] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "chime, demand judge make me shells" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

You bother the same assistant again later. Still at no point even communicating with the roboticist once.

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[2022-02-20 06:42:41.473] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:41.474] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (HOLOPAD in Hydroponics (123,175,2)) "Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:42.810] SAY: Bjarl/(Lukas Judge) "got the stuff for shells?" (Hydroponics (124,171,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:43.696] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "make me shells later" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:43.696] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (HOLOPAD in Hydroponics (123,175,2)) "Make me shells later" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:46.235] SAY: Bjarl/(Lukas Judge) "okay." (Hydroponics (124,171,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:56.016] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "shit RD and VERY SHIT julius are wasting points" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))
[2022-02-20 06:42:56.016] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) (HOLOPAD in Hydroponics (123,175,2)) "Shit RD and VERY SHIT julius are wasting points" (AI Chamber (33,138,2))

So, you've encouraged two assistants to break RPR10 15 minutes into the round, without even asking the roboticist in question themself about the status of any shells or cyborgs.

This is where the crux of the note comes in.

The roboticists. One of the roboticists was a heretic and was arrested very early. The other, was Julius Wright. They a very new player to the /tg/station servers. They currently have roughly 15 hours played as a roboticist.
During this point, they were attempting to learn our RND system. I was helping guide them, in fact. I explained to them how toxins experiments worked and how additional RND servers functioned.

► Show Spoiler

The roboticist has been pre-occupied with the RD and learning RND through the entire round and finally gets to make something in robotics. They chose to make a Phazon. They're a robticist and mechs are cool, it's easy to understand where they're coming from. No one at any point here has talked to them about shells.

The only instance of any silicon asking them about shells occurred a full hour into the round. It was one of your cyborgs, and occurred as they were in conflict with the assistants.

Code: Select all

[2022-02-20 07:26:22.438] SAY: Moist Cookie/(HK-47) "Julius why are you trying to build a phazon but no AI shells?" (Mech Bay (146,84,2))

The assistants enter and push them aside, to start constructing cyborg and ai shells. They get into a fight with the roboticist.

Code: Select all

[2022-02-20 07:37:59.352] ATTACK: Bjarl/(Lukas Judge) has flashed(targeted) RiqueGamePlays/(Julius Wright) with the flash (NEWHP: 74.9)  (Robotics Lab (145,77,2))

Then, the events you already listed in your provided logs occurred, and you (the AI) and your silicons relentlessly screw with them for the remainder of the shift.
The roboticists refuses to create borgs or shells for you because you actively insult and antagonize them for the rest of the round. It's even shown in your logs.

My problem was three-fold:
- You did not even communicate with the player in question. Rather, you went out of your way to find other players to break one of our RP rules.
- Rather than communicating with them at any point, you proceeded to antagonize them throughout the entire round.
- You looked up the player on the centcom ban database midround to confirm your bias about them.

This behavior is not very acceptable to me.
I don't really care about them playing robotics in the past on another server. I have no way of knowing how much they played, how they played it, or how the job plays on another server or under another servers rules.

As such, I have no intention on rewording the note. I believe in the future you need need to approach players who are uncooperative to you more constructively. If you believe they're ignoring you maliciously, you should ahelp it.

Post by **mrmelbert** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:34 am #632004

Addendum:

Actually, I will offer to add additional context to the note if you so desire. But I will not remove the note.

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:37 am #632240

That change would appreciate that as this is a blanket and negative note.

Post by **mrmelbert** » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:42 am #632255

Reworded from:

"Asked to be a bit more patient with players new to the server."

To:

"As an AI, got impatient with a roboticist newer to the server for not constructing AI shells and cyborgs for them quickly enough. Let in two assistants to do the job for roboticist, breaking RPR10 ("stay in your lane") and causing a major disagreement between the roboticist and the assistants. Afterwards, antagonized the roboticist for a good portion of the shift. Asked to be a bit more patient and constructive with players newer to the server. If you believe they are acting maliciously to you, please ahelp instead."

Post by **Timberpoes** » Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:25 pm #632700

I've had this appeal reserved in the headmin channels but haven't been able to do much about it since the headmin team have been busy resolving policy stuff from this term. I'm holding this note appeal in limbo since there may (or may not) be a ruling on it.

Post by **mrmelbert** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:17 am #633321

For the record, and the appealer:

If you think my rewording was still innacurate, overly harsh, or you still disagree with the note and/or its wording, please let me know and I'll work on the wording once more.

Ultimately, the goal is for the both of us to come to an equal understanding of the note. As such I'm willing to continue to work on it.

Post by **Timberpoes** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:39 pm #634128

Since the player doesn't seem to be engaging with the appeal process any further, I'll consider it resolved with no additional ruling or input needed.

/tg/Station 13

[MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

[MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

Re: [MrMelbert] carshalash - I do not like this note.

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