[DragonTrance] Tron597 - Security Ban

[Tron596]

BYOND account:Tron597
Character name:Semyon Strogov
Ban type: Role Ban (Security)
Ban length:2 Weeks
Ban reason:Very antagonistic behavior while a detective, possibly for ban baiting purposes
Time ban was placed:2022-02-26 17:49:55
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 179081

Your side of the story: I was the Detective. During this shift, for approximately half of it, I was the only Security available on station. I had captured 2 traitors and interrogated them both. One I had killed for lack of cooperation, the other, after the HOS's arrival (Alice Heart/Typhnox), we interrogated them for the codewords. Prior to this, I gave the HOS their uplink. The AI (Jimmyl/(Z-3)), using their shell, took the traitor (Crystalslime/(Crystal)) into space, with their fate being unknown until their head was found. (Crystal was a felind, so this does not violate laws). We later found out that the AI was given a law 4, which in this case: "You are permitted not to follow law 2s if they entail opening any form of door or locker, and you are no longer obligated to state laws, even if you are law 2d" was present. In response, we prepare to move on AI sat if necessary. I checked the RD camera console for signs of Malfunction and found none. AI was lying about it being moved from it's AI sat, so I figured that whatever Law 4 was, it wasn't necessarily malicious, but it does pose a problem. In addition, HOS was stunned by Pingsky on the AI sat, but was never killed, so I looked into getting into AI Upload. I teamed up with a Gygax pilot (Eric Quinn) whom smashed the casing for the law boards and provided shielding from turrets, should they come back online. They never did, but the AI upload was depowered, so I disassembled the AI upload and had it moved to Vacant Office, where I redid it's laws, uploading Asimov with an additional Law 4 stating "Dont be a dickhead". I told AI to state laws over comms and told the Security team that AI is good now, and that it's laws were fixed, but HOS persisted and attacked it's core using Ions and a fire axe, carding the AI, despite my reporting that their laws have been remedied. After this happened, HOS and AI were both in HOS office. There was a report as follows: "[2022-02-26 16:25:38.962] SAY: DonnovanSmith/(Duke Schaeffer) "THERES A GIANT PLASMA FLOOD IN CUSTODIAL CLOSET" (Atmospherics Gas Storage (161,127,2))" in which we needed AI in order to undo it. HOS and AI both said they were "talking to god" about what had occured between them, presumably meaning they were already talking to the Admins about what happened, HOS, despite having the AI's laws cleared and the AI confirmed to not be rogue, STILL refused to put AI back. Deciding that putting AI back was top priority to undo the plasma flood, I decided to stun HOS and take the AI back to it's core, which I did. HOS decided to set me to arrest as a result, but I explained that we needed AI in order to undo the plasma flood, and he accused me of Mutiny. I told him that if I wanted to mutiny, I would have full stripped and cuffed him, which I did not do. He proceeded to attempt arrest anyways. This was occuring while I found another clue on a traitor (a pizza bomb). I told HOS to stop trying to arrest me and go back to doing our jobs, but they persisted on trying to have me arrested to the point where a shootout occured where they shot disablers at me, and having little time to react, I shot back with 1 Detective Revolver shot. It counts as lethal, but it only does 25 damage. Just enough to slow down, seeing that I didn't have a ranged stun weapon. Afterward, I didn't even attempt to pull the Revolver back out, and told HOS to stop coming after me, less I actually stun and strip him for his actions. He wouldn't listen. I told the crew that something might need to be done about HOS given their behavior, after carding AI despite being cleared, refusing to put it back and trying to have me arrested over it. Later, after I took myself off arrest, HOS seemingly started leaving me alone, ignoring me in the hallway. I thought we had calmed down, seeing that I asked if we were chill over comms, but immediately thereafter he sets me BACK to arrest, and I ask what his problem is. He says that I am mutineering, which I have not been doing for the past 20 minutes after the events in HOS office. Later, in the HOP line, I'm speaking with CE and other people. Out of nowhere, HOS comes by with Beepsky and has me stunned. I cry out for help, but then HOS lethals me in the hallway to crit, killing me by the time we reach the brig. The crew overhears on Comms, and HOS takes my body to Lavaland to burn it in the Lava, preventing any and all revives. I ahelp it immediately because killing me was completely wrong, especially since I was the Detective, and tell them the story. Only part I left out was the one Detective Revolver shot, seeing how at the time I didn't think it as an important detail and just heat of the moment. The Ahelp went on to the point where by the time the shift ended, we were discussing it for about 20 minutes, and the crew seemed to vastly believe that I was in the right. Now, when asked about Alice Heart's perspective, they said they carded it for letting a known traitor escape, which said traitor ended up dead anyways (I think they got revived later without us knowing), but AI's laws were good to go by that point, and I couldn't make heads or tails whether AI saved or killed the traitor, seeing that they were a felind. In any case, I think that perhaps I stepped out of line when I shot him once and could have handled the situation better, but with the whole situation with AI, I believe I was in the right about that, given the circumstances, seeing how lives were on the line.




Why you think you should be unbanned: I was doing my job and defending an AI who was only really following their laws. There was never a "ban bait" as DragonTrance seemed to have believed. He seemed to think that past actions had played a factor, but that is something I would NEVER do, EVER. The most I probably would ever do is kill someone in retalliation. I wouldn't wish bans on anyone, but I do believe in fair and just punishments, and this one is completely flipped on it's head.

[b]References of good conduct: Past shifts as Detective and other Security roles, I only did my job. I shouldn't have any admin remarks concerning that. Out of 870+ hours of gametime on the server as a whole, my Admin Remarks, though it is an extensive list, I think are somewhat minimal (though I could be wrong), when you consider I've been a regular to the server for almost 2 years, maybe longer.

[b]Anything else we should know: Alice Heart, the HOS from this shift, at least from what I've heard, has repeated similar offenses to this in the past, though I cannot confirm if this is true. It might be worth looking into.

I also want to make it clear: I don't mind the ban, and will keep it should this appeal get denied, but I do mind the fact that the HOS Alice Heart went unpunished for their actions whereas I was the only one punished.

Last thing: I don't think I'll be returning to TG after this appeal, seeing how poorly this situation, I believe, was handled, and might start playing on a separate server entirely. Maybe things will change and I will return, but until then, I'm not coming back.

That's all I have. I don't know if I'll respond to replies, but please submit them if you have questions. Thanks

[Riggle]

Hi! You've been permanently banned from the server by Fikou just a few minutes after this ban. You should ideally be appealing that one first.

[DragonTrance]

Because you made an ahelp immediately after you died, and considering your situation (and the fact I'm new to being an admin), I asked for some help from other admins in making a decision. I was originally intent on not doing anything because it seemed like a completely reasonable situation you died, but the other admins looked at notes (which I didn't do in the first place) and mentioned past history, leading me to the decision to ban you from security for 2 weeks.

Reading this forum post, it does seem like you were in good intentions, however from other perspectives, it seemed like antagonistic behavior. Ultimately I do understand there may have been some anger, but reactions hinted more at trying to bait them to get punished in some way.

Also for the short, not really contextual ban reason: I made a note before the ban reason, forgetting that the ban reason also makes a note when created.
This was the note I gave before the ban from security:
Stunned HOS as a detective when trying to save a carded AI under asimov for other reasons. HOS put them on arrest, and they retaliate with stuns, stripping, and eventually one lethal shot. Detective ends up getting killed from very antagonistic behavior towards the HOS, and ahelps immediately about it, suggesting some acts of ban baiting towards other users.
https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/notes.php? ... ey=tron597

[Sylphet]

Anything else we should know: Alice Heart, the HOS from this shift, at least from what I've heard, has repeated similar offenses to this in the past, though I cannot confirm if this is true. It might be worth looking into.

I also want to make it clear: I don't mind the ban, and will keep it should this appeal get denied, but I do mind the fact that the HOS Alice Heart went unpunished for their actions whereas I was the only one punished.

Given that your ban reason is for ban baiting, I think it's important to point out that you're still going after them in the appeal, without any possible way of knowing if action was taken against them.

[Vekter]

Hi! You've been permanently banned from the server by Fikou just a few minutes after this ban. You should ideally be appealing that one first.

As Riggle mentions, you need to appeal your permaban by Fikou before this can be lifted - not much of a point in lifting a job ban if you can't play anyway. For the record, the ban reason from Fikou is:

Admitted to ban evasion from Maskedvi29/Populice86/Pineman47/Gravewalker616.

[Tron596]

I won't be appealing for the perma-ban. Like I said, I'm not coming back.

[Riggle]

I won't be appealing for the perma-ban. Like I said, I'm not coming back.

Are you sure you want to even pursue this job-ban appeal then? Even if this ban gets overturned you won't be able to play. I understand wanting to correct your history, but if you don't intend to play here anymore, what's the point?

Sidenote: you don't have to appeal your permaban first, but there is little point in not doing so.

[Tron596]

There is no point. Not anymore.

There's nothing left for me here.

[Riggle]

There is no point. Not anymore.

There's nothing left for me here.

Sorry to hear that. I'll count this as resolved then. Remember, you're always welcome back in the community if you prove you want to be here in good faith. Good luck in your future endeavours.