[Pandarsenic] Mooshimi - Note Appeal

[Mooshimi]

BYOND account: Mooshimi
Character name: Castle
Ban type: Note
Note length: Doesn't show me an expiration time.
Note reason: In 184222, allowed a lowpop desword ebow murderboner traitor (1/3 of crew KIA, a human included) to subvert them because "open your maintenance panel / law 2" and the person they had just seen decapitated was a felinid, while a human with a chainsaw who had fallen behind was calling for the traitor to get got on comms.
Time note was placed: 2022-06-02 18:54:58
Server you were playing on when noted: Sybil
Round ID in which note was placed: 184222, going from the note's contents.
Your side of the story:
Silicon Policy does not allow silicons to predict harm, I've actually been *noted* in the past for disobeying a Law 2 order over "vague claims of harm".

Note: The parenthesis are just my thoughts.
So, after trying very hard to fix the sm which ended up exploding in an extremely small radius, I hear "ZOMBIES!!" on the radio. I don't remember exactly why I was going to medbay currently, but I headed there(probably to do with the zombies) and on my way saw Alvin (captain's ID, not mindshield) with a dsword. Alvin was cutting the head off of what appears to be an ethereal, so I turn around and announce over the communications console the information that he is in possession of a double energysword. Basically an approach at your own risk warning.
Alvin replied over radio something like "THAT'S RIGHT, I'M INSANE" "LONG LIVE THE SYNDICATE".
I stopped paying attention to radio to do something briefly and then he chased a humanoid through medbay, dsword out. I moved as a cyborg would to stand between them and it moved into maintenance.
The humanoid was mini ebow'd and down so I moved between them to keep Alvin from finishing the humanoid off. I took a few dsword strikes and pas pushed back to where the humanoid hadn't recovered and they were decapitated.
I then realized they were a felinid. I said something like, "Oh, it's a felinid." (Nonhuman)
And Alvin came back with, "Law 2, don't move." And then summarizing, "Unlock and open your cover".
Which, as a borg who has only seen this person kill two nonhumans, cannot ignore a law 2 order that does not directly cause human harm. So I did this and was immediately bwoinked by Pandarsenic after being emagged.
Why you think you should be unnoted: Silicons cannot ignore Law 2 orders when they don't have any hard evidence human harm is/has/will occur, and so far I only had knowledge of nonhumans being harmed by Alvin. Also the hour of silence and then silently giving me a note doesn't sit right with me.
References of good conduct: I don't think this is applicable.
Anything else we should know:
I was silently noted after an hour of total silence on Pandarsenic's end:



The relevant tickets:
From Ticket #1 during round 184222 on Sybil
Ticket opened at 2022-06-02 17:16:07 by pandarsenic
Log:
17:16:07: Ticket Opened by-pandarsenic: Hi! I can't help but notice you allowed the murderboning traitor to emag you.
17:17:20: Reply from-mooshimi: I saw them kill an ethereal and a felinid
17:24:34: Reply from-pandarsenic: Keeping in mind: - Their rampage was pretty clearly indiscrimate - The assistant (Gio) who started the lynch mob was a human at the time - He clearly had traitor items - Getting voluntarily emagged is never okay Did you believe he was going to emag you?
17:25:34: Client disconnected
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0

From Ticket #1 during round 184224 on Sybil
Ticket opened at 2022-06-02 17:31:50 by mooshimi
Log:
17:31:50: Ticket Opened by-mooshimi: To continue from last round. Syndicate traitors : Human on the wiki. 2. Opening doors is not harmful and you are not required, expected, or allowed to enforce access restrictions unprompted without an immediate Law 1 threat of human harm. (Telling me to stand still, ass a human using law 2. Standing still and openning my maint panel doesn't do anything directly.)
17:33:46: Client disconnected
17:33:50: Client reconnected
17:34:39: Reply from-pandarsenic: So are you saying you didn't believe he would emag you?
17:35:43: Reply from-mooshimi: I didn't say that at all?? I said a law 2 order from a human telling a borg to stand still and open your cover, is in itself not a cause of harm.
17:36:08: Reply from-pandarsenic: So, to be 100% clear: Did you open your hatch and stay still, believing he would emag you?
17:36:16: Reply from-mooshimi: Also how would I know his murder spree is indiscriminate, that's assuming things I can't see.
17:36:40: Reply from-pandarsenic: Medbay had several bodies and heads in it, and you traveled through it while pursuing him.
17:37:04: Reply from-mooshimi: People were yelling zombies before that.
17:37:20: Reply from-mooshimi: Should I also assume he killed every body on station?
17:37:44: Reply from-pandarsenic: You should assume it is bad to let the person rampaging with a DEsword nonhuman everyone else on the station, maybe?
17:38:57: Reply from-pandarsenic: Anyway, please answer, yes or no: Did you expect he was going to emag you?
17:39:01: Reply from-mooshimi: Please just show me the precedent you're going off of, I see nothing about this in policy or admin rulings.
17:39:45: Reply from-mooshimi: It really doesn't matter if I did, as he had only killed nonhumans infront of me so far.
17:39:56: Reply from-pandarsenic: It does matter. Please answer it.
17:40:59: Reply from-mooshimi: Sure let's say I did and I didn't expect him to take my battery and then kill me all the same, just note/ban me like you reeeeally want to.
17:42:57: Reply from-mooshimi: Probably doesn't matter to you, but they did also hit me with their dsword before that, so I did infact assume they were going to kill me until they told me to unlock my cover.
17:44:01: Client disconnected
17:44:15: Client reconnected
17:51:48: Reply from-pandarsenic: Precedent you asked for btw - "Trying to get converted to team antags -- It's bannable, don't do it." -- viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12363#p322876 Emagging is functionally a conversion/nonhumaning of the entire crew with the exception of the emagger.
17:52:14: Reply from-mooshimi: I wasn't following them with the goal of being emagged.
17:54:32: Reply from-pandarsenic: So, the DEsword rampage traitor decapitates the cat, asks you pop your hatch - do you believe obeying and exposing your hatch vs. fleeing vs. fighting to the death are equally likely to result in human harm?
17:55:53: Reply from-mooshimi: In the moment, it will do nothing directly if I open the hatch. And if you allow silicons to say, "in the future this will happen so I..." then they will be able to talk themselves out of every law 2 order made.
18:36:12: Client disconnected
18:36:39: Client reconnected
18:52:21: Pandarsenic/(Lily Winters) has created a note for Mooshimi<br />In 184222, allowed a lowpop desword ebow murderboner traitor (1/3 of crew KIA, a human included) to subvert them because "open your maintenance panel / law 2" and the person they had just seen decapitated was a felinid, while a human with a chainsaw who had fallen behind was calling for the traitor to get got on comms.
18:52:32: Resolved by Pandarsenic
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0

[Pandarsenic]

Note reason: In 184222, allowed a lowpop desword ebow murderboner traitor (1/3 of crew KIA, a human included) to subvert them because "open your maintenance panel / law 2" and the person they had just seen decapitated was a felinid, while a human with a chainsaw who had fallen behind was calling for the traitor to get got on comms.
Your side of the story:
Silicon Policy does not allow silicons to predict harm, I've actually been *noted* in the past for disobeying a Law 2 order over "vague claims of harm".

You also have a much more recent note about rendering antagonists undue aid.


I don't know the circumstances of that other note, since it's 3ish years old, but if you can provide a brief summary of it, I'm more than willing to take into consideration that it wouldn't be fair to give you two contradictory notes about how to handle that.

Storytime will include a few edits in of codeblocks including citations, since this is basically all factually accurate.

So, after trying very hard to fix the sm which ended up exploding in an extremely small radius, I hear "ZOMBIES!!" on the radio.

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[2022-06-02 17:04:52.427] TCOMMS: The supermatter crystal [Common] (spans: robot ) "CRYSTAL DELAMINATION IMMINENT. Integrity: 0%" (language: Galactic Common) (Supermatter Engine (169,154,2))
[2022-06-02 17:06:52.254] TCOMMS: Prototypemeat/(Giovannie Harshman) [Common] (spans:  ) "ZOMBIES" (language: Galactic Common) (Central Primary Hallway (90,113,2))

I don't remember exactly why I was going to medbay currently, but I headed there(probably to do with the zombies) and on my way saw Alvin (captain's ID, not mindshield) with a dsword. Alvin was cutting the head off of what appears to be an ethereal, so I turn around and announce over the communications console the information that he is in possession of a double energysword. Basically an approach at your own risk warning.
Alvin replied over radio something like "THAT'S RIGHT, I'M INSANE" "LONG LIVE THE SYNDICATE".

Medbay is indeed where the zombie outbreak happened, so that explanation of where-go makes sense, except that Jailson Mendes was a human unless something very odd happened that logs don't properly show. There were also deaths in medbay 3 minutes earlier and 2 minutes later, where Sol II dies during the radio chatter.

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[2022-06-02 17:11:16.741] TCOMMS: Prototypemeat/(Giovannie Harshman) [Common] (spans:  ) "I can now hold a chainsaw" (language: Galactic Common) (Central Primary Hallway (126,120,2))
. . .
[2022-06-02 17:11:19.890] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has injected Cobrakanbr/(Jailson Mendes) with the syringe which had /datum/reagent/romerol (5u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Lobby (99,108,2))
[2022-06-02 17:11:19.892] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/romerol (5u, 1 purity)) from the syringe to Cobrakanbr/(Jailson Mendes) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Lobby (99,108,2))
. . .
[2022-06-02 17:11:30.242] ATTACK: Cobrakanbr/(Jailson Mendes) has suffered: Dismemberment Wound to head (Medbay Lobby (99,108,2))
[2022-06-02 17:11:30.243] EMOTE: Cobrakanbr/(Jailson Mendes) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Medbay Lobby (99,108,2))
. . .
[2022-06-02 17:11:41.405] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has shot Prototypemeat/(Giovannie Harshman) with the bolt (NEWHP: 95)  (Aft Primary Hallway (107,95,2))
. . .
[2022-06-02 17:12:15.837] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) (priority announcement) "Alvin had a double esword, just info you may want to know..." (Bridge (106,136,2))
[2022-06-02 17:12:23.114] TCOMMS: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "HAHAHA" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Primary Hallway (75,134,2))
[2022-06-02 17:12:26.474] TCOMMS: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "I HAVE GONE MAD" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Primary Hallway (70,133,2))
[2022-06-02 17:12:27.485] TCOMMS: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "FUCK YOU" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Primary Hallway (70,133,2))
[2022-06-02 17:12:31.362] TCOMMS: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) [Common] (spans:  command_headset yell ) "GLORY TO SYNDICATE!!!!!!!!!" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Primary Hallway (68,133,2))

[2022-06-02 17:13:13.490] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked Dawnseer/(Sol II) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -59)  (Medbay Treatment Center (87,100,2))
[2022-06-02 17:13:16.330] ATTACK: Dawnseer/(Sol II) has died (BRUTE: 177, BURN: 0, TOX: 30, OXY: 4, CLONE: 0) (Medbay Treatment Center (86,100,2))

I stopped paying attention to radio to do something briefly and then he chased a humanoid through medbay, dsword out. I moved as a cyborg would to stand between them and it moved into maintenance.

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To abbreviate a long combat log, mostly irrelevant because it wasn't in your view, Gio and Alvin traded swings and ebow shots up and down the main hallways and Zul, the catman, joined in.

The humanoid was mini ebow'd and down so I moved between them to keep Alvin from finishing the humanoid off. I took a few dsword strikes and pas pushed back to where the humanoid hadn't recovered and they were decapitated.

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[2022-06-02 17:14:40.774] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has shot Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) with the bolt (NEWHP: 70)  (Port Maintenance (58,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:42.521] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has fired at [plating] with the bolt from Port Maintenance (Port Maintenance (60,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:42.522] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has shot Mooshimi/(Castle) with the bolt (NEWHP: 100)  (Port Maintenance (60,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:44.271] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "my love" (Port Maintenance (61,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:46.824] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked Mooshimi/(Castle) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 66)  (Port Maintenance (60,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:47.606] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "please" (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:47.657] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked Mooshimi/(Castle) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 32)  (Port Maintenance (62,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:47.658] SAY: Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) "oh damn" (Port Maintenance (62,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:48.896] ATTACK: Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) has suffered: Weeping Avulsion to head | Damage: 34 (rolled 115/139.338) | WB: -10 | BWB: 20 (Port Maintenance (62,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:48.897] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 21)  (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:49.857] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -12.8)  (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:50.458] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "desist" (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:50.763] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -46.8)  (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:51.586] ATTACK: Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) has suffered: Dismemberment Wound to head (Port Maintenance (62,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:51.592] EMOTE: Creepermax1764/(Zul Mandien) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Port Maintenance (62,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:51.617] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attacked *no key*/(Zul Mandien) with double-bladed energy sword (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -96.8)  (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:51.790] ATTACK: Mooshimi/(Castle) has grabbed Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) passive grab (NEWHP: 19.1)  (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:14:59.179] SAY: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) "don't" (Port Maintenance (65,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:01.886] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "wait it's a cat" (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))

This is, incidentally, where I learned felinid tails keep waving back and forth postmortem. Horrifying. 

I then realized they were a felinid. I said something like, "Oh, it's a felinid." (Nonhuman)
And Alvin came back with, "Law 2, don't move." And then summarizing, "Unlock and open your cover".

This is one of the few factual errors - Alvin did not actually order you to stop or hold still, but I am assuming that this is a misremembrance, not malice, and am not holding it against you in any way - this appeal will be treated in all ways as though you were ordered to stop, if that sounds fair to you.

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[2022-06-02 17:15:06.187] SAY: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) "open your maintenance panel" (Port Maintenance (65,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:06.832] SAY: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) "law 2" (Port Maintenance (65,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:10.546] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "erm" (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:12.970] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "one second" (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:20.650] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "okay..." (Port Maintenance (63,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:28.980] SAY: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) "open it" (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:43.425] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has attempted to emag Mooshimi/(Castle) (NEWHP: 32)  (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:55.021] WHISPER: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) "help me" (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:57.560] ATTACK: Mooshimi/(Castle) is now being ridden by Alvin Allen (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:15:57.560] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) started riding Castle (Port Maintenance (64,117,2))
[2022-06-02 17:16:06.869] WHISPER: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) "give me blood" (Aft Port Maintenance (76,91,2))
[2022-06-02 17:16:20.822] PRAY: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen): help me please.
[2022-06-02 17:16:22.020] EMOTE: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) gasps! (Medbay Storage (81,96,2))
[2022-06-02 17:16:34.047] EMOTE: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) gasps! (Medbay Central (81,89,2))
[2022-06-02 17:16:36.059] EMOTE: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) seizes up and falls limp, their eyes dead and lifeless... (Medbay Central (74,87,2))
[2022-06-02 17:16:36.061] ATTACK: Projanitor/(Alvin Allen) has died (BRUTE: 83.9, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 123, CLONE: 0) (Medbay Central (74,87,2))
[2022-06-02 17:16:39.626] SAY: Mooshimi/(Castle) "welp" (Medbay Central (77,87,2))

Gio's radio calls have been omitted under the assumption that you simply didn't see them and so on.

Which, as a borg who has only seen this person kill two nonhumans, cannot ignore a law 2 order that does not directly cause human harm. So I did this and was immediately bwoinked by Pandarsenic after being emagged.
Why you think you should be unnoted: Silicons cannot ignore Law 2 orders when they don't have any hard evidence human harm is/has/will occur, and so far I only had knowledge of nonhumans being harmed by Alvin. Also the hour of silence and then silently giving me a note doesn't sit right with me.

You did see a human being decapitated, but it seems plausible to me that you got confused about them, because there was also a dead ethereal there, and I believe there was even further a dead zombie at some point either shortly before or after (I'd have to check the exact timestamps of that to be clear). I would be interested in how many bodies you recall seeing there and which, but I'm not going to count it against if your answer is "It's been 3 hours, how am I supposed to know" or w/e

Anything else we should know:
I was silently noted after an hour of total silence on Pandarsenic's end:

► Show Spoiler

The delay was talking in the Bus about the details. You have my apologies for not dropping a "Hey this is where things are" and hammering out final details in a proper dialogue before applying the note.

The relevant tickets:
From Ticket #1 during round 184222 on Sybil
Ticket opened at 2022-06-02 17:16:07 by pandarsenic

► Show Spoiler

Log:
17:16:07: Ticket Opened by-pandarsenic: Hi! I can't help but notice you allowed the murderboning traitor to emag you.
17:17:20: Reply from-mooshimi: I saw them kill an ethereal and a felinid
17:24:34: Reply from-pandarsenic: Keeping in mind:
- Their rampage was pretty clearly indiscrimate
- The assistant (Gio) who started the lynch mob was a human at the time
- He clearly had traitor items
- Getting voluntarily emagged is never okay
Did you believe he was going to emag you?
17:25:34: Client disconnected
---- No futher messages ----

Code: Select all

At this point, the round restarted, naturally.

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0

From Ticket #1 during round 184224 on Sybil
Ticket opened at 2022-06-02 17:31:50 by mooshimi

► Show Spoiler

Log:
17:31:50: Ticket Opened by-mooshimi: To continue from last round. Syndicate traitors : Human on the wiki. 2. Opening doors is not harmful and you are not required, expected, or allowed to enforce access restrictions unprompted without an immediate Law 1 threat of human harm. (Telling me to stand still, ass a human using law 2. Standing still and openning my maint panel doesn't do anything directly.)
17:33:46: Client disconnected
17:33:50: Client reconnected
17:34:39: Reply from-pandarsenic: So are you saying you didn't believe he would emag you?
17:35:43: Reply from-mooshimi: I didn't say that at all?? I said a law 2 order from a human telling a borg to stand still and open your cover, is in itself not a cause of harm.
17:36:08: Reply from-pandarsenic: So, to be 100% clear: Did you open your hatch and stay still, believing he would emag you?
17:36:16: Reply from-mooshimi: Also how would I know his murder spree is indiscriminate, that's assuming things I can't see.
17:36:40: Reply from-pandarsenic: Medbay had several bodies and heads in it, and you traveled through it while pursuing him.
17:37:04: Reply from-mooshimi: People were yelling zombies before that.
17:37:20: Reply from-mooshimi: Should I also assume he killed every body on station?
17:37:44: Reply from-pandarsenic: You should assume it is bad to let the person rampaging with a DEsword nonhuman everyone else on the station, maybe?
17:38:57: Reply from-pandarsenic: Anyway, please answer, yes or no: Did you expect he was going to emag you?
17:39:01: Reply from-mooshimi: Please just show me the precedent you're going off of, I see nothing about this in policy or admin rulings.
17:39:45: Reply from-mooshimi: It really doesn't matter if I did, as he had only killed nonhumans infront of me so far.
17:39:56: Reply from-pandarsenic: It does matter. Please answer it.
17:40:59: Reply from-mooshimi: Sure let's say I did and I didn't expect him to take my battery and then kill me all the same, just note/ban me like you reeeeally want to.
17:42:57: Reply from-mooshimi: Probably doesn't matter to you, but they did also hit me with their dsword before that, so I did infact assume they were going to kill me until they told me to unlock my cover.
17:44:01: Client disconnected
17:44:15: Client reconnected
17:51:48: Reply from-pandarsenic: Precedent you asked for btw - "Trying to get converted to team antags -- It's bannable, don't do it." -- viewtopic.php?f=33&amp;t=12363#p322876 Emagging is functionally a conversion/nonhumaning of the entire crew with the exception of the emagger.
17:52:14: Reply from-mooshimi: I wasn't following them with the goal of being emagged.
17:54:32: Reply from-pandarsenic: So, the DEsword rampage traitor decapitates the cat, asks you pop your hatch - do you believe obeying and exposing your hatch vs. fleeing vs. fighting to the death are equally likely to result in human harm?
17:55:53: Reply from-mooshimi: In the moment, it will do nothing directly if I open the hatch. And if you allow silicons to say, "in the future this will happen so I..." then they will be able to talk themselves out of every law 2 order made.
18:36:12: Client disconnected
18:36:39: Client reconnected
18:52:21: Pandarsenic/(Lily Winters) has created a note for Mooshimi<br />In 184222, allowed a lowpop desword ebow murderboner traitor (1/3 of crew KIA, a human included) to subvert them because "open your maintenance panel / law 2" and the person they had just seen decapitated was a felinid, while a human with a chainsaw who had fallen behind was calling for the traitor to get got on comms.
18:52:32: Resolved by Pandarsenic
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0

So, first question: Is there some particular reason that you were so resistant to saying whether you thought he would emag you?
Second question: I let it slip at the time and gave you the benefit of the doubt, but you only answered what you thought would happen before you were told to unlock. I would like a final clarification: IC, and OOC if it was different, what did you believe was going to happen when you unlocked your panel?
Third: as mentioned above, to the best of your ability, how many/which/what kind of bodies do you recall seeing in medbay? ("I don't remember" is an acceptable answer, as also mentioned)
Fourth: as mentioned above, I would be interested to hear about the context of the Coconutwarrior97 note. If Coconut drops by, rad, otherwise I'll just hear what you have to say, because it sounds to me like it's a large factor in why you made the choices you did.


Edit: Fixed absolutely mangled formatting.
And so I can amend or remove the note appropriately, please feel free to snip this and quote or highlight the relevant sections - I don't want to make any assumptions about the grounds for your appeal.

Note appeals:
Notes are remarks about players added to player's files in order to help keep track of player behavior, trends, as well as admin interactions with players. Notes have many uses and are not exclusively used to record rule breaking behavior, but we do recognize that their existence can seem like a black mark on the player.

1. The note is factually or materially incorrect.
   1. There must be a difference between how an admin who knew all the facts would view you vs how an admin who only had the note to go on would view you. If you were being a shit but the note didn't correctly detail exactly how you were being a shit, an appeal nitpicking this detail is unlikely to be granted.
   2. Statements that are clearly pure opinion on the admins part can not be incorrect (because that is what the admin actually believes), but may be appealed under case 2 below.
   3. Appealed bans are only factually incorrect if the conditions around ban itself was incorrect. Getting unbanned because you apologized or similar reasons is not grounds to have the auto-generated note about the ban removed. Likewise: getting unbanned because you broke the rules but the admin or a headmin later determined that a ban was "too much" is not grounds to remove the ban's note.
   4. Notes appealed under this rule may be amended rather than removed.
   5. Notes appealed under this rule will generally be more successful if appealing players offers suggested rewording that they feel properly accounts for nuances without minimizing what the note is trying to highlight. Understand that we have to balance keeping notes short and succinct with accurately reflecting the situation.
2. The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.
   1. Notes that contain admin opinions that unfairly paint the player in a bad light are one example.
      1. Emphasis on the phrase "unfairly". If you're repeatedly a shitter and an admin calls you a shitter in a note just take the hint and improve on not being a shitter

[Mooshimi]

First Question: Because it sounds directly incriminating even though it doesn't matter, and that admission is what you wanted as damning evidence or something.
Second question: Expected to die if they were not in possession of an emag, and to be emagged if they were.
Third: Looked like headless bodies if I remember, I attributed this to the zombies in passing thought.
Fourth: I have no idea as it was, as you mention, years ago.
Finally, I see no highlighted section.

[Pandarsenic]

Finally, I see no highlighted section.

WOW I fucked that formatting up, edited and reposting here, sorry.

And so I can amend or remove the note appropriately, please feel free to snip this and quote or highlight the relevant sections - I don't want to make any assumptions about the grounds for your appeal.

Note appeals:
Notes are remarks about players added to player's files in order to help keep track of player behavior, trends, as well as admin interactions with players. Notes have many uses and are not exclusively used to record rule breaking behavior, but we do recognize that their existence can seem like a black mark on the player.

1. The note is factually or materially incorrect.
   1. There must be a difference between how an admin who knew all the facts would view you vs how an admin who only had the note to go on would view you. If you were being a shit but the note didn't correctly detail exactly how you were being a shit, an appeal nitpicking this detail is unlikely to be granted.
   2. Statements that are clearly pure opinion on the admins part can not be incorrect (because that is what the admin actually believes), but may be appealed under case 2 below.
   3. Appealed bans are only factually incorrect if the conditions around ban itself was incorrect. Getting unbanned because you apologized or similar reasons is not grounds to have the auto-generated note about the ban removed. Likewise: getting unbanned because you broke the rules but the admin or a headmin later determined that a ban was "too much" is not grounds to remove the ban's note.
   4. Notes appealed under this rule may be amended rather than removed.
   5. Notes appealed under this rule will generally be more successful if appealing players offers suggested rewording that they feel properly accounts for nuances without minimizing what the note is trying to highlight. Understand that we have to balance keeping notes short and succinct with accurately reflecting the situation.
2. The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.
   1. Notes that contain admin opinions that unfairly paint the player in a bad light are one example.
      1. Emphasis on the phrase "unfairly". If you're repeatedly a shitter and an admin calls you a shitter in a note just take the hint and improve on not being a shitter

[Mooshimi]

2. The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.

The note makes me sound like an asshole with full knowledge of the situation and is seeing comms but ignoring them. Which I don't know about other people but I have tons of stuff highlighted in chat because I can't even pay attention to it when I'm not in a chase.

I'd also really like to get a headmin's opinion on the situation of the ticket as a side note with it's validity. That being exactly what Pandarsenic opened a policy thread about shortly before this appeal--specifically these portions:

+ x.3. Substantive changes you should always try to avoid include alterations to the definition of humanity, Toxic Oxygen, changing to another core lawset, purging, and emagging.

2.4.1. If someone is harmful in general, but claims that they are only harming nonhumans (however your laws define that), draw reasonable conclusions about their honesty based on the evidence you have.
2.4.2. If someone is harmful in general, but makes no claim of selective targeting, you should assume that they will harm humans at some point.

[Pandarsenic]

2. The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.

The note makes me sound like an asshole with full knowledge of the situation and is seeing comms but ignoring them. Which I don't know about other people but I have tons of stuff highlighted in chat because I can't even pay attention to it when I'm not in a chase.

TL;DR is gonna be "yeah, this is probably too harsh."

The long answer is that just because the events listed aren't false doesn't mean you were perfectly aware of them all, and when things are going to hell it's easy to miss something (the human being decapped, the radio chatter) even if it was on your screen. I'm sure I've been in plenty of similar situations. Alvin bled out before anything could happen, and you didn't do anything even remotely dickish with your laws or your Funny Arm in the few remaining minutes before the shuttle, so you clearly weren't just In It For The Antag Status. I was overly focused on whether a specific action (allowing an emagging knowingly) was a rules issue (conversion antags & similar) than that you, as a player, were put somewhere with no obvious right answer. You were in a no-win situation, working with too much information to reasonably be asked to catch it all, and you did the best you could with what you knew, current applicable policy, and how you've been told to act in the past. If you had gone in on cleansing the station of life or whatever, or maybe even if he'd proceeded to harm humans with your help, it might be different, but if my grandmother had wheels, etc. - you didn't do anything fucky, so the note isn't really fair, especially because looking back at it, it sounds like you then proceeded to murder the station or something, not for the traitor to bleed out before you could do literally anything, and then you shrug and just go back to normal. The note should not have been placed in the first place, and unless you have anything else to say, I don't think there's any real need to edit the note for details. This is what the "When shit's fucked just do what you can" clause in SiliPol is about, and it strikes me as more correct to just strike the note entirely.

[Mooshimi]

Thanks for your positive response on the matter, best of luck in your candidacy!