BYOND account: JupiterJaeden
Character name: Jeff Gaiman
Ban type: Role (security)
Ban length: 5 days
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Head of Security, security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer for 7200 minutes - Shot a clown to death for spreading Pierrot's Throat and eating a large amount of vaccine pills to try and prevent people curing themselves. Clown hadn't posed an existential or violent threat to anybody, so shooting him to death was pretty disproportinate to his crime here, but did allow the clown to be revived afterward during our PM's. Please work on fine tuning your 'should I put this man to death' meter when dealing with criminals and you'll be a real baller security player.
Time ban was placed: 2023-09-14 15:31:17
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 214583
Your side of the story: I latejoined into the round as secoff. Eventually centcom sends an announcement about "the chaplain's religion is NOT centcom approved" and I go and look and the chapel has been clownified, complete with bananium everywhere, clown monsters, honk bot and giant honk mech, and of course some actual clown players (there were multiple also). A lot of sec and cap was pretty bloodthirsty at first but I initially advocated for just leaving them alone. But eventually when we heard they were spreading disease around and attacking people, sec decided to crack down. Busted out the shotguns and lethal shells. Killed several clown monsters. At some point around here I arrested slippy jimmy non-lethally but eventually decided to let him go since I couldn't figure out exactly what he'd done among all the different people/monsters. When he was leaving I warned him and said something like "let's simplify this, if you interfere you will be killed" and he said something like "of course".
Later on when I was trying to kill one of the clown mobs in library, another clown and some guy with a HOP ID attacked me, so I shot both of them to push them back (without arresting/finishing off). At this point I won't lie I was pretty trigger happy at this point but in my eyes I was just playing my part in what was essentially a meme round made by the admins (for context, most of the round for sec was defined not by our interactions with antags but with the clown mob).
So we get the screaming on radio that a clown has taken all the vaxx pills from the pharmacy storage and eaten them all. Slippy jimmy screams on radio that it was him. So I start rushing over there trying to ask captain what we should do. Captain says "beat him up" which I took a little liberally and gunned him down in the hallway. Then I brought him to brig afterwards and after a little bit of radio chatter trying to figure out what we should do with the body I decide to get him revived. Because he is just a clown acting in his nature after all.
I later released him after he was revived, because apparently he lied and didn't actually eat ALL the vaxx pills (it was another clown who did). He wasn't even mad at me, or at least he didn't express it in-game. He left on good terms without even slipping me a final time. (the good ending)
Why you think you should be unbanned: Biblemelts talked a lot about the MRP rules on sec executions in our ticket, but a lot of those rules focus on interactions with antags; I didn't think the clown was an antag at all. Nor did I believe the clown was an existential or violent threat. I will note that in the interaction I DID actually have with an antag this round (clara the traitor), I did first stuncuff non-lethally and talk with them, eventually brigging them. Then when they tried to pull an esword on me and kill me, I responded with lethals in kind. Still revived them after that though.
But with the clowns, it was already a meme round where the admins spawned a bunch of unstunnable clown monsters (who were obviously colluding with the actual clown players) that we had no option but to shoot. Then the clowns started spreading around a disease which I presume the admins ALSO spawned. Then the same, individual clown came back after being arrested once already and decided to keep trolling (totally fair for the record, he is a clown). What happened was, frankly, just a clown being lynched for being a clown. I'm pretty damn sure medbay would have killed him if I didn't get to him first. At least they didn't sound too happy on the radio lol.
Lastly, for the record what he did under space law DOES constitutes the capital crime of Grand Sabotage (spreading viruses/sabotaging the disease response)... I know it's not policy but just throwing that out there.
tl;dr I shot the clown because I it was funny, he came back for more after already getting stopped once, and I thought it was in the spirit of what seemed to me to be a meme round. I revived him after because I wasn't really trying to take the guy out of the game. He wasn't even mad at me (sign of a true good clown player). Sure, what I did isn't super serious RP but neither is spamming clown monsters and bananium lol
References of good conduct: N/A
Anything else we should know: (literally 1984)
[TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
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JupiterJaeden
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:03 am
- Byond Username: JupiterJaeden
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TheBibleMelts
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm
- Byond Username: TheBibleMelts
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
you summed up the events pretty well here, and had you been a medical doctor i'd have just told the clown he fucked around and found out.
since this happened on the MRP server in particular i had to look at it from a different angle than normal, namely this one
in addition to this regular security rule
you had means of non-lethal detainment against a criminal who had made no indications of needing to be field executed, were given orders that did not indicate a field execution was warrented, and by your own admission overstepped because it was funny.
you have several notes about being spoken to or banned for skipping due process and just killing people outright, so i couldn't just kick the can down the street to let another admin hem-haw about the line-toeing the next time you decide to do this.
if you want to play security on MRP, i want you to ask yourself if the person about to eat a bullet sandwich can be handled in a more sane way. go play on LRP if you want to play with a more relaxed focus on justifying your actions via roleplay.
since this happened on the MRP server in particular i had to look at it from a different angle than normal, namely this one
Code: Select all
6. Deal with the bad guys in proportion to their crime(s).
Restricted antagonists (or crewmembers) should be handled in proportion to their committed crimes. The decision to execute an antagonist should have good in-character reasoning based on their crimes and the state of the shift. Punishments against antagonists that repeatedly commit minor crimes may be escalated. Only antagonists that have committed the most severe crimes may be met with immediate execution.
Security members are expected to consider the full range of punishment options available when dealing with antags. This includes (but is not always limited to) pacification, implants, timed brig sentences, gulag sentences, permabrig, forced borging and execution. Forced borging is considered equivalent to execution in punishment severity.
Explicitly friendly antagonists do not have this protection and may be treated as the crew or admin team see fit.Code: Select all
1. Rule 1 of the main rules applies to security.
The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.you have several notes about being spoken to or banned for skipping due process and just killing people outright, so i couldn't just kick the can down the street to let another admin hem-haw about the line-toeing the next time you decide to do this.
if you want to play security on MRP, i want you to ask yourself if the person about to eat a bullet sandwich can be handled in a more sane way. go play on LRP if you want to play with a more relaxed focus on justifying your actions via roleplay.
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JupiterJaeden
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:03 am
- Byond Username: JupiterJaeden
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
First of all, I dunno why you posted random screenshots from manuelcord as some kind of gotcha. Everything said there I stated in my appeal post and still stand by. Also not sure what the captain said retro-actively in manuelcord is at all relevant to an appeal lol. I will note that the ONLY thing the captain said in-game at the time was "beat him up" and he did not explicitly forbid killing him, which you did claim at one point.
I admitted to it being funny. I didn't admit to overstepping. Given what was going on in the round, i.e. the state of the shift (admin-spawned clown mob) and the clown admitting to committing bioterrorism, I thought (and still think) killing them was totally fair. Bioterrorism like that IS, I will note, a pretty severe crime. Yes, it's funny when the clown does it, and yes, it's funny when the clown gets killed for doing it, but that aside it IS still a serious crime IC.
I don't believe you are actually headmin yet...? So, I would like to request headmin review from the current headmin team. If they aren't able to before the new team comes in then I'd like to request review from your other headmins as well.
Side note: I think telling me to "go play on LRP" is a little silly when the round in question had admin spammed clown monsters, diseases, and a bananium-fueled clown mob lol. Hardly the peak of serious (or sane) RP.
I admitted to it being funny. I didn't admit to overstepping. Given what was going on in the round, i.e. the state of the shift (admin-spawned clown mob) and the clown admitting to committing bioterrorism, I thought (and still think) killing them was totally fair. Bioterrorism like that IS, I will note, a pretty severe crime. Yes, it's funny when the clown does it, and yes, it's funny when the clown gets killed for doing it, but that aside it IS still a serious crime IC.
I don't believe you are actually headmin yet...? So, I would like to request headmin review from the current headmin team. If they aren't able to before the new team comes in then I'd like to request review from your other headmins as well.
Side note: I think telling me to "go play on LRP" is a little silly when the round in question had admin spammed clown monsters, diseases, and a bananium-fueled clown mob lol. Hardly the peak of serious (or sane) RP.
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GPeckman
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:19 am
- Byond Username: GPeckman
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
Headmin precedent on space law:
The space law entry on grand sabotage:Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:23 am When it came to Space Law, I always felt it operated best as a shield, but not as a sword.
A player should be able to point to Space Law compliance as proof they acted in good-faith. It should represent the gold standard for handling a situation. They should be able to cite following Space Law as their defence in ahelps.
Bombing, arson, releasing viruses, deliberately exposing areas to space, physically destroying machinery or electrifying doors all count as Grand Sabotage.
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TheBibleMelts
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm
- Byond Username: TheBibleMelts
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
had a chance to speak with the clown player in question again and it looks like there wasn't any intentional infecting on their end, so i'm even more inclined to see this as a non-justified method of dealing with what ended up just them joking about eating all the pills. the vaccine had been in mass production, a lot of people had already gotten the vaccine, and it was a disease also curable by bananas, of which botany was producing as well. i'm not sure calling the clown a bioterrorist is appropriate given that additional context. i included the discord pictures mostly due to the captain's testimony of saying to beat the clown up, as you'd already stated that you did it As A Funny in the appeal OP.
i've let the head administrators know you want a review, but i'm pretty firmly sticking to my belief that security on MRP need to behave in such a way to allow more roleplay to happen with nonviolent criminals - a corpse can't roleplay. i would have been personally delighted if this had turned into a courtroom case, for example.
i've let the head administrators know you want a review, but i'm pretty firmly sticking to my belief that security on MRP need to behave in such a way to allow more roleplay to happen with nonviolent criminals - a corpse can't roleplay. i would have been personally delighted if this had turned into a courtroom case, for example.
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sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
Logs of clown eating the vaccine pills (does not appear to be just them joking):
(around 30 pills eaten)
Clown admitting to it and seccie's response. Clown was executed and, 14 minutes later, revived:
The clown ate the vaccine while there were still several people infected with the virus, some of whom had it the rest of the round (filtered for unique ckeys):
Bananas are cures to the virus but not vaccines, and are not clearly marked to the uninitiated as the remedy, unlike vaccines.
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/214 ... attack.txt
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/214 ... e=game.txt
Spoiler:
Clown admitting to it and seccie's response. Clown was executed and, 14 minutes later, revived:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/214 ... attack.txt
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/214 ... e=game.txt
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TheBibleMelts
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm
- Byond Username: TheBibleMelts
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
some notes from the logs that influenced this pretty heavily -
after the clowns statement, you began your "VALID, VALID, CAN I VALID?" statements to the captain, which just seemed to really highlight how desperate you were to kill the clown. which was even more questionable given that you had confirmed yourself that the clown had NOT, in fact, ruined the vaccine efforts, seen here.
and after confirming this, you still tried to ask to valid his salad - to which the captain response to, instead
what i'm going to post below is both your attack and say logs after this. tell me how much roleplay happened here, because it looks like you sped to the clowns location and instantly opened fire with no words shared. he was shot around 29 times before dying per the logs.
what followed was you dragging his corpse PAST the medbay, into the brig, and eventually allowing a doctor to take him and revive him after his organs had rotted. when questioned by your HoS for what you did, this was your response.
in summary, you saw an opportunity to kill somebody, begged command to let you kill them, were told instead to beat them up, and then wordlessly executed them in the middle of a hallway before dragging their rotting body back to the brig and lying to your boss about being ordered to do it.
you've admitted that you prefer playing on MRP over LRP due to being able to perform arrests without being tided and hassled. if you want to be able to do your job in an environment where players afford each other more good-faith gameplay so that roleplay can happen, i would advise you allow other people the same grace that you play here to be afforded.
Code: Select all
02:58:07 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "AUTHORIZATION TO RE-EDU SLIPPY"
02:58:13 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "CAPTAIN, AUTHORIZATION FOR RE-EDU!!"Code: Select all
02:58:35 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "LUCKILY WE HAD BACKUP VAXX!!"
02:58:48 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "NEED AUTHORIZATION FOR RE-EDU ON SLIPPY"Code: Select all
02:58:53 SAY Diasyl/(Connor Reighner) "Beat him up"Code: Select all
02:58:26 EMOTE JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) points at Pierrot's Throat vaccine tube (137, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:58:28 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "THERE SHOULD BE MORE VAXX THERE" (137, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:58:35 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "LUCKILY WE HAD BACKUP VAXX!!" (146, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:58:43 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "CAPTAIN REPEAT" (157, 129, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:58:48 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "NEED AUTHORIZATION FOR RE-EDU ON SLIPPY"Code: Select all
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Starboard Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 62.5) (186, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:03 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 62.5) (187, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:04 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 56.8) (187, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:04 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 49.6) (187, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:04 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 45.3) (187, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:04 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 37.6) (187, 128, 4) Starboard Primary Hallway
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: 30.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 30.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: 24.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 22.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: 16.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 16.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: 10.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 10.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: 4.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: 2.4) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -3.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -5.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -11.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -11.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -17.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -17.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -23.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -29.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -29.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:05 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -23.6) (189, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -36) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -42) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -42) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -48) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -36) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -48) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -54) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -54) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -60) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -60) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -66) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -68) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -74) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -74) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -80) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -86) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -86) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) fired at Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet from Departure Lounge (NEWHP: -92) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -80) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:07 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) shot Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) with the bullet (NEWHP: -92) (191, 129, 4) Departure Lounge
02:59:09 ATTACK JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) grabbed Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) passive grab (NEWHP: -100)Code: Select all
02:59:16 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "slippy has been neutralized."Code: Select all
03:00:35 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "orders hos." (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:38 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "I gunned him down." (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:47 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "he sabotaged the vaccine response effort."you've admitted that you prefer playing on MRP over LRP due to being able to perform arrests without being tided and hassled. if you want to be able to do your job in an environment where players afford each other more good-faith gameplay so that roleplay can happen, i would advise you allow other people the same grace that you play here to be afforded.
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TheBibleMelts
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm
- Byond Username: TheBibleMelts
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
as requested, i let the head administrators know about your review request when you made it, and handover has since happened since them. i pinged my two fellow headmins and the only one who responded was in favor of upholding this given the context and the desire to enforce more MRP on the MRP server in general.
as our charter allows ban appeals to be upheld on uninformed +2 votes, this has been denied both on my level as the one who placed the ban, and the head administration review level.
as our charter allows ban appeals to be upheld on uninformed +2 votes, this has been denied both on my level as the one who placed the ban, and the head administration review level.
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JupiterJaeden
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:03 am
- Byond Username: JupiterJaeden
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
EDIT: Made this post before seeing the headmin review result. Given how dishonest your last post here was, I’m just gonna say think it’s unfair for other headmins to be judging the appeal without a chance for me to respond to that. But oh well.
It seems to me here you have tried your absolute hardest to frame this as negatively as possible. Let's go over that.
He was not shot 29 times. He was shot about 3 times. I was using improvised buckshot, every shot has 10 projectiles hence why it shows up that way in logs. I'm not sure what gun you thought I was using that I would have the ammunition (or reason) to fire at him 29 times? Very dishonest framing.
Couple logs skipped here... here is me telling him to do it again
Then later I berate the brig doctor for NOT using forma like 10 minutes later (I assumed he had earlier)
It's really not my fault the brig doctor took 14 minutes to revive them and didn't dose them with forma despite me telling them to do it multiple times. Maybe I should have just done it myself but I was trying to let the guy have a chance at, you know, doctoring.
It seems to me here you have tried your absolute hardest to frame this as negatively as possible. Let's go over that.
It doesn't really matter that we HAPPENED to have a backup vaxx vial because I had made it earlier, the clown could not have known about that. To my knowledge (and according to the logs posted by sinfulbliss apparently he actually did) the clown had the intent and acted upon the intent to destroy the vaccine supply. Also remember that at this point I earnestly believed (not without reason, as he was 100% associating with them and I had arrested him earlier for that) that the clown was part of the initial group that was spreading the disease in the first place. Spread disease, make attempt to destroy vaccine to that disease, be a clown, get shot.which was even more questionable given that you had confirmed yourself that the clown had NOT, in fact, ruined the vaccine efforts, seen here.
I interpreted this in the moment as a green light to attack the clown. Consider that this was in response to me asking "can I kill him" and the captain didn't say "no, just beat him a little". He just said "beat him up". If the captain had something like "just arrest the guy" I would have begrudgingly accepted. Sure you can argue that the captain specifically meant "beat him but not to death", but that's just one interpretation.and after confirming this, you still tried to ask to valid his salad - to which the captain response to, instead
Code: Select all
02:58:53 SAY Diasyl/(Connor Reighner) "Beat him up"
Not that it matters particularly much from a rules point of view, but I did say something to him over the radio beforehand.because it looks like you sped to the clowns location and instantly opened fire with no words shared. he was shot around 29 times before dying per the logs.
He was not shot 29 times. He was shot about 3 times. I was using improvised buckshot, every shot has 10 projectiles hence why it shows up that way in logs. I'm not sure what gun you thought I was using that I would have the ammunition (or reason) to fire at him 29 times? Very dishonest framing.
Speaking of dishonest framing: "eventually allowing a doctor to take him". Really? I took him to the brig because we had a doctor who was already there doing a brig medbay gimmick. He was turned over into that doctor's possession almost immediately. (as you can see from timestamps on these following logs). Oh and about those organs rotting? Let's look at the logs where I tell the doctor to dose him with formaldehyde like 5 times.what followed was you dragging his corpse PAST the medbay, into the brig, and eventually allowing a doctor to take him and revive him after his organs had rotted.
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03:00:04 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "HOS OR CAPTAIN TO BRIG!!" (115, 171, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:12 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "like now." (115, 172, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:15 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "do you have forma" (117, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:16 EMOTE JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) points at the floor (117, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:20 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "we dont care." (116, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:27 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "you can kill him" (116, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:35 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "orders hos." (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:38 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "I gunned him down." (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:47 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "he sabotaged the vaccine response effort." (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:00:59 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "get captain here" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:01:02 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "CAPTAIN TO BRIG!!" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:01:06 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "just use an epi pen" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:01:09 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "you should have forma by the way" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
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03:01:36 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "sure" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:01:38 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "you can prep" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:01:42 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "that is why I wanted you to forma" (115, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:01:45 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "just use an epi pen"
03:01:57 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "we'll revive him and strip him of all his clown shit"
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03:09:48 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "because you didnt forma them did you" (118, 173, 4) Brig Overlook
03:10:00 EMOTE JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) claps. (117, 169, 4) Holding Cell
03:10:04 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "GOT INFIL SUIT TRAITOR" (117, 169, 4) Holding Cell [b](unrelated to clown)[/b]
03:10:06 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "forma them now" (117, 172, 4) Brig Overlook
03:10:08 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "epi pen" (117, 172, 4) Brig Overlook
03:10:12 SAY JupiterJaeden/(Lights-The-Way) "just atke them to med and finish it after"
In summary, you saw an opportunity here to frame all of my actions as negatively and bad-faith as possible, and obviously took it. (Side note: at what point did I lie to anyone about being directly ordered to do it? Me saying "orders hos" was asking for orders. Not saying I had direct orders.)in summary, you saw an opportunity to kill somebody, begged command to let you kill them, were told instead to beat them up, and then wordlessly executed them in the middle of a hallway before dragging their rotting body back to the brig and lying to your boss about being ordered to do it.
Final note: I do not want to debate why I should play LRP instead of MRP or vice versa. Less tiding is one reason but I have several other reasons that I prefer manuel.you've admitted that you prefer playing on MRP over LRP due to being able to perform arrests without being tided and hassled. if you want to be able to do your job in an environment where players afford each other more good-faith gameplay so that roleplay can happen, i would advise you allow other people the same grace that you play here to be afforded.
Last edited by JupiterJaeden on Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheBibleMelts
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm
- Byond Username: TheBibleMelts
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
apologies on the misinterpretation of the 'orders hos' thing, that seems reasonable with that context - it just looked the other way around when all i had to go by is the plain text logs. i'd gathered that the shots were from a shotgun which had resulted in that many bullets, since the timestamps indicate several bunches landing at once.
either way, there's nothing left but semantics here. roleplay situations like this out to justifiable ends if you want to kill somebody - it feels like you're missing the point that this ban was due to a pattern of situations where you eschew roleplay in favor of clicking somebody until they die - it happens sometimes, i get it, but it shouldn't be happening at the level where you're catching a few notes/bans a month for bad roleplay.
basically, just think twice on killing somebody that isn't posing an existential threat to you on MRP - or adminhelp it to ask about any iffy situations, you're going to avoid a lot of headaches for yourself if you do that going forward.
either way, there's nothing left but semantics here. roleplay situations like this out to justifiable ends if you want to kill somebody - it feels like you're missing the point that this ban was due to a pattern of situations where you eschew roleplay in favor of clicking somebody until they die - it happens sometimes, i get it, but it shouldn't be happening at the level where you're catching a few notes/bans a month for bad roleplay.
basically, just think twice on killing somebody that isn't posing an existential threat to you on MRP - or adminhelp it to ask about any iffy situations, you're going to avoid a lot of headaches for yourself if you do that going forward.
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JupiterJaeden
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:03 am
- Byond Username: JupiterJaeden
Re: [TheBibleMelts] JupiterJaeden - Literally 1984
Okay so you got that but then still decided to frame it as “you shot them 29 times and then let their body rot in the brig without letting them get medical treatment for 14 minutes” even though that is blatantly false.i'd gathered that the shots were from a shotgun which had resulted in that many bullets, since the timestamps indicate several bunches landing at once.
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