[thunder12345] Annihilite - Having a self preservation instinct is failRP

[Annihilite111]

BYOND account: Annihilite
Character name: Hans Heisenberg
Ban type: Note
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Warned - Willingly surrendered to a group of cultists and allowed themselves to be converted.
Time ban was placed: 2023-09-17 15:23:22
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 214785

Your side of the story: I, the research director, was taking part in a raid on the ritual site of the cult. We were seemingly winning, and I along with a mediborg stayed to get a deepcrit cultist to brig for deconversion. Suddenly, a wraith rushes out of captain's office (where the ritual was taking place) and hurt as I am I get put into crit. When I get up, I am surrounded by a strike squad of fully armed and armored cultists and constructs, and as I see absolutely no chance of survival otherwise, I surrender. The cultists prepare an offering circle beneath me, and as it flashes red I am instantly gibbed by Thunder

Why you think you should be unbanned: The given reason for the gibbing (and note) was that allowing yourself to be converted is against the rules, but I am reasonably certain that this rule is intended to stop people from going out of their way to get converted (IE seeking out the cult and laying on a rune), and not to restrict roleplaying during team antag rounds to TDM. A near-death research director armed with his baton and surrounded by murderous cultists shouldn't be expected to die fighting like some kind of RTS unit. I should be allowed to roleplay as a (somewhat) believable human person who reacts to threats of murder by obeying the people holding the sharp sticks. While this exact situation doesn't seem to be covered in rule 4 precedents, it does state that players are allowed to assist antagonists given sufficient IC reasoning (which not wanting to have your skull cracked open would fall under).
References of good conduct:

[Thunder11]

All your log entries from when you first say you want to surrender https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... nd-214785/

[2023-09-17 15:17:03.521] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35) (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.701] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) puts his hands on his head and falls to the ground, he surrenders! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:16.560] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "dont kill me!" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:22.215] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender!" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:36.656] GAME: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has gained antag datum Cultist(/datum/antagonist/cult).

You had a total of 33 seconds in which you were actively choosing to let them convert you, going so far as to lie on the floor and wait for them to draw a rune specifically to convert you, and in that time you were attacked a total of once.

It's been enforced for a very long time that willing conversions are not allowed, and the headmin ruling page is not in any way ambiguous. Conversion modes are designed and balanced on the basis that players will actively attempt to avoid conversion, and that is why we have policy requiring players to make such an effort.

This note is neither factually incorrect nor unjustifiably harsh.

[Annihilite111]

All your log entries from when you first say you want to surrender https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... nd-214785/

[2023-09-17 15:17:03.521] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35) (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.701] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) puts his hands on his head and falls to the ground, he surrenders! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:16.560] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "dont kill me!" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:22.215] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender!" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:36.656] GAME: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has gained antag datum Cultist(/datum/antagonist/cult).

You had a total of 33 seconds in which you were actively choosing to let them convert you, going so far as to lie on the floor and wait for them to draw a rune specifically to convert you, and in that time you were attacked a total of once.

It's been enforced for a very long time that willing conversions are not allowed, and the headmin ruling page is not in any way ambiguous. Conversion modes are designed and balanced on the basis that players will actively attempt to avoid conversion, and that is why we have policy requiring players to make such an effort.

This note is neither factually incorrect nor unjustifiably harsh.

If I had at any point made any attempt to fight, run or scream for help, I'd have been dead in a second. I am not sure exactly how much health I had but considering that I had just healed out of crit, one more hit from a cult sword would have been guaranteed to put me on the ground again, and the slowdown would have made running impossible even if I got them by surprise. I'm not sure what point you're making by mentioning the time, since my situation didn't change.

Anyway, is there policy that states that players are or aren't allowed to comply with a conversion antag under threat of death? If there isn't, I would like to request a headmin review since your mind seems to be set on the matter. I'm unconvinced that balance and mechanics were the intended spirit behind these rules, since I was under the impression I was playing a primarily roleplaying game.

[Agux909]

It's worth noting that "surrendering" (using the emote *surrender), knocks you down and completely incapacitates (stuns) you for around 15 seconds or so.

[Archie700]

Annihilite's attack logs

Code: Select all

[2023-09-17 15:12:18.184] ATTACK: Maxipat/(Shade of Mei Fumiwara) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100)  (Command Hallway (104,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:18.295] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attacked Maxipat/(Shade of Mei Fumiwara) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 30)  (Command Hallway (104,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:31.937] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) shot Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the laser (NEWHP: 91)  (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:39.307] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) used a cult spell on Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with Stun (NEWHP: 66)  (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:44.240] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with eldritch longsword (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 36)  (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.748] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 36)  (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.752] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 26)  (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:06.197] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown the eldritch longsword  (Command Hallway (118,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:08.844] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown the eldritch longsword  (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:08.845] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) threw and hit Pepsiman0/(Nilla Steele) with the eldritch longsword (NEWHP: 86.3)  (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:10.677] ATTACK: Pepsiman0/(Nilla Steele) shoved Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 26)  (Command Hallway (116,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:14.520] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown the eldritch longsword  (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:32.615] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/libital (5u, 0.75 purity)) from  to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 26)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:32.615] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) injected Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the cyborg hypospray (CHEMICALS: Libital) (NEWHP: 26)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:34.713] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/libital (5u, 0.75 purity)) from  to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 26)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:34.714] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) injected Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the cyborg hypospray (CHEMICALS: Libital) (NEWHP: 26)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.367] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) temp shocked for 30 seconds [Captain's Quarters] (Bridge (114,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.391] ATTACK: [Captain's Quarters] electrocuted Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 6.9)  (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:37.434] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/aiuri (5u, 0.75 purity)) from  to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 9.9)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:37.435] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) injected Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the cyborg hypospray (CHEMICALS: Aiuri) (NEWHP: 9.9)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:38.845] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/aiuri (5u, 0.75 purity)) from  to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 9.9)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:38.846] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) injected Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the cyborg hypospray (CHEMICALS: Aiuri) (NEWHP: 9.9)  (Bridge (113,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:41.294] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) grabbed Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) passive grab (NEWHP: 14.4)  (Bridge (113,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:57.313] ATTACK: Tqkres/(Firar Baba) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 37.9)  (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:00.483] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attacked [Captain's Quarters] with the telescopic baton (Bridge (114,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:01.837] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) was flashed(AOE) (Captain's Quarters (117,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:01.843] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) was flashed(AOE) (Captain's Quarters (117,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:05.594] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) flashed(AOE) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the flash (NEWHP: 51.4)  (Captain's Quarters (116,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:06.645] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) flashed(AOE) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the flash (NEWHP: 51.4)  (Captain's Quarters (117,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:07.839] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) flashed(AOE) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the flash (NEWHP: 51.4)  (Captain's Quarters (116,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:09.359] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) flashed(AOE) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the flash (NEWHP: 51.4)  (Captain's Quarters (120,130,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:10.483] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) flashed(AOE) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the flash (NEWHP: 56.4)  (Captain's Quarters (119,131,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:14.565] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) flashed(AOE) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the flash (NEWHP: 61.4)  (Captain's Quarters (121,131,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.107] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) stun attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: -10.1)  (Gateway (116,124,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.987] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -15.1)  (Gateway (116,124,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:51.072] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) grabbed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) passive grab (NEWHP: -30.7)  (Gateway (116,124,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:08.830] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is stripping LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the sabre sheath. (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:09.875] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is stripping LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the satchel. (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:12.848] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the sabre sheath. (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:14.030] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the satchel. (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:20.504] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attempted to handcuff LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) (NEWHP: -42.8)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:23.713] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) handcuffed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) (NEWHP: -45.1)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:29.670] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attempted to inject LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: -49.6)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:29.673] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/epinephrine (10u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/toxin/formaldehyde (3u, 0.75 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/coagulant (2u, 1 purity)) from the epinephrine medipen to LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) (NEWHP: -49.6)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:29.674] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) injected LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: -49.6)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:31.127] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) kicked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) (NEWHP: -50.2)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:31.129] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) got a stun punch with their previous punch LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) (NEWHP: -54)  (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:36.408] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is stripping LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the �Nar'Sien hardened armor. (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:15:40.825] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the �Nar'Sien hardened armor. (Command Hallway (115,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:26.112] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is stripping LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:30.102] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:35.265] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100)  (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.079] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) grabbed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -79.7)  (Command Hallway (101,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.127] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 85)  (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.962] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) thrown LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) grab from tile in Command Hallway (99,127,2) towards tile at Command Hallway (103,126,2) (NEWHP: -79.7)  (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.964] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown Ivan Pavlovich  (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.360] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 70)  (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:41.710] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 55)  (Command Hallway (111,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35)  (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:36.655] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has been converted to the cult of Nar'Sie! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:38.938] ATTACK: Wozzy/(Alexandr Pechkin) shaken Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 75)  (Command Hallway (119,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:39.805] ATTACK: Wozzy/(Alexandr Pechkin) shaken Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 75)  (Command Hallway (119,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:41.324] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has died (BRUTE: 25, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (Command Hallway (120,126,2))

Attack logs athe the location of incident

Code: Select all

[2023-09-17 15:16:26.112] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is stripping LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:27.434] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) (NEWHP: 2.75)  (Command Hallway (117,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:30.102] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:32.577] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) (NEWHP: -65.1)  (Command Hallway (109,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:33.620] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked [Commission Plaque] (Command Hallway (107,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:35.265] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100)  (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.079] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) grabbed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -79.7)  (Command Hallway (101,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.127] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 85)  (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.591] ATTACK: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) suffered: Rough Abrasion to head | Damage: 15 (rolled 1/44.3127) | WB: 15 | BWB: 10 (Command Hallway (103,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.593] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) attacked Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) with circular saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 59.1)  (Command Hallway (103,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.962] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) thrown LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) grab from tile in Command Hallway (99,127,2) towards tile at Command Hallway (103,126,2) (NEWHP: -79.7)  (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.964] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown Ivan Pavlovich  (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.158] ATTACK: LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) crashed into Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) (NEWHP: 51.6)  (Command Hallway (102,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.360] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 70)  (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:38.728] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked [��Command Hallway omni air vent xkhjP] (Command Hallway (95,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:38.852] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) attacked Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) with circular saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -32.25)  (Command Hallway (97,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:40.343] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) attacked SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) with circular saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 50)  (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:41.710] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 55)  (Command Hallway (111,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:43.288] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked *no key*/(Jimmy Quark) (NEWHP: -182)  (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:43.510] ATTACK: NoRatRealy/(Wraith (898)) attacked *no key*/(Firar Baba) (NEWHP: -113.7)  (Command Hallway (112,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:44.765] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) attacked SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) with circular saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 35)  (Command Hallway (122,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:44.769] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) (NEWHP: -32.25)  (Command Hallway (123,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:45.298] ATTACK: NoRatRealy/(Wraith (898)) attacked [Command Hallway] (Command Hallway (123,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:45.638] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) (NEWHP: -52.25)  (Command Hallway (124,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:01.793] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked [dried blood] (Command Hallway (122,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:02.367] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked [��Command Hallway omni air scrubber 6bf4Q] (Command Hallway (121,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35)  (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:12.377] ATTACK: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) grabbed *no key*/(Resul Ibn Suleyman) passive grab (NEWHP: -117.9)  (Command Hallway (118,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:17.241] ATTACK: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) grabbed *no key*/(Firar Baba) passive grab (NEWHP: -123.1)  (Command Hallway (114,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:19.471] ATTACK: NoRatRealy/(Wraith (898)) grabbed *no key*/(Titus Echard) passive grab (NEWHP: -74.1)  (Command Hallway (124,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:20.862] ATTACK: Wozzy/(Alexandr Pechkin) grabbed Komodoejderi/(Resul Ibn Suleyman) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:25.533] ATTACK: NoRatRealy/(Wraith (898)) cast the spell Phase Shift. (Command Hallway (120,126,2))

Say logs at incident:

Code: Select all

[2023-09-17 15:16:20.121] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "borgo" (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:23.937] GAME-EMOTE: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) points at the comfy chair (Command Hallway (116,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:24.528] GAME-EMOTE: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) points at Wraith (829) (Command Hallway (116,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:24.865] GAME-EMOTE: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) points at Wraith (829) (Command Hallway (116,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:25.091] GAME-EMOTE: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) points at Wraith (829) (Command Hallway (116,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:25.762] GAME-EMOTE: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) points at the comfy chair (Command Hallway (116,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:30.569] GAME-SAY: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) "argh" (Command Hallway (111,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:31.040] GAME-EMOTE: LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) gasps! (Command Hallway (113,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:33.053] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) points at the floor (Command Hallway (107,125,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:42.173] GAME: *no key*/(Mya Everdring) *no key*/(Mya Everdring) is no longer owning mob Mya Everdring(/mob/dead/observer) (Command Hallway (108,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:03.521] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.250] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "get em" (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.701] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) puts his hands on his head and falls to the ground, he surrenders! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:10.792] GAME-EMOTE: LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) gasps! (Command Hallway (102,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:11.590] GAME: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) scribed a revive rune using the ritual dagger (/obj/item/melee/cultblade/dagger) (Command Hallway (118,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:11.831] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "convert him" (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:12.677] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:12.849] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:13.219] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Renault (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:13.386] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Renault (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:13.546] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Renault (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:13.713] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Renault (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:13.878] GAME-SAY: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) "Pasnar val'keriam usinar. Savrae ines amutan. Yam'toth remium il'tarat!" FORCED by cult invocation (Command Hallway (119,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:13.912] GAME: Komodoejderi/(Resul Ibn Suleyman) Client Komodoejderi/(Resul Ibn Suleyman) has taken ownership of mob Resul Ibn Suleyman(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Command Hallway (118,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:14.064] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Renault (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:14.262] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:14.280] GAME-EMOTE: LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) gasps! (Command Hallway (102,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:14.470] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:14.629] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:14.794] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:15.018] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:15.179] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (118,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:16.560] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "dont kill me!" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:16.660] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "Convert" (Command Hallway (117,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:18.003] GAME-EMOTE: LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) gasps! (Command Hallway (102,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:18.896] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:19.247] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:19.572] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:20.032] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:20.199] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:20.518] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:22.215] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender!" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:22.374] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "CONVERT" (Command Hallway (119,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:24.271] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "FOR FUCKS SAKE" (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:25.647] GAME-SAY: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) "Pasnar val'keriam usinar. Savrae ines amutan. Yam'toth remium il'tarat!" FORCED by cult invocation (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:25.678] GAME: Tqkres/(Firar Baba) Client Tqkres/(Firar Baba) has taken ownership of mob Firar Baba(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Command Hallway (118,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:25.742] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at the floor (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:26.275] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:26.431] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:26.767] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:26.938] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Mya Everdring (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:27.148] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:27.319] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at the floor (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:27.549] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Mya Everdring (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:27.689] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Mya Everdring (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:27.873] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Mya Everdring (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:28.043] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Mya Everdring (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:28.286] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:28.464] GAME-EMOTE: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) points at Hans Heisenberg (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:28.990] GAME: *no key*/(Thomas Brody) *no key*/(Thomas Brody) is no longer owning mob Thomas Brody(/mob/dead/observer) (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:30.825] GAME-EMOTE: LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) gasps! (Command Hallway (102,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:31.897] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "I will fucking kill them" (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:32.939] GAME-SAY: Wozzy/(Alexandr Pechkin) "makin rune" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:34.926] GAME: Wozzy/(Alexandr Pechkin) scribed an offer rune using the ritual dagger (/obj/item/melee/cultblade/dagger) (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:36.600] GAME-SAY: Wozzy/(Alexandr Pechkin) "Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!" FORCED by cult invocation (Command Hallway (119,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:36.618] GAME-SAY: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) "Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!" FORCED by cult invocation (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:36.628] GAME-SAY: Komodoejderi/(Resul Ibn Suleyman) "Mah'weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!" FORCED by cult invocation (Command Hallway (121,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:41.351] GAME: *no key*/(Hans Heisenberg) *no key*/(Hans Heisenberg) is no longer owning mob Hans Heisenberg(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:42.733] GAME: *no key*/(Hans Heisenberg) *no key*/(Hans Heisenberg) is no longer owning mob Hans Heisenberg(/mob/living/brain) (Command Hallway (123,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:42.765] GAME: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) Client Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has taken ownership of mob Hans Heisenberg(/mob/dead/observer) (Command Hallway (123,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:46.808] GAME-SAY: Soviet DoGGo/(Christopher Zadovsky) "Pasnar val'keriam usinar. Savrae ines amutan. Yam'toth remium il'tarat!" FORCED by cult invocation (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:47.419] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (DEAD) "huh" (Command Hallway (122,126,2))

[Pandarsenic]

Purely informational:

Code: Select all

[2023-09-17 15:16:35.265] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100)  (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.127] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 85)  (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.360] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 70)  (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:41.710] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 55)  (Command Hallway (111,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35)  (Command Hallway (120,127,2))

At 35 HP, from a quick thunderdome trial, you've moving at roughly half speed at best. You can technically survive one Eldritch Longsword swing (30 force, leaving you at 5 HP) but that's only if you don't have any wounds, blood loss, oxyloss, etc. Similarly, two wraith swings (15x2) puts you at the same 5 HP, where you're a couple of good floor tiles or some lost blood away from total incapacitation.

A quick test of *surrender showed it makes you unable to make movement inputs for 20 seconds (in this case, this should have lasted from 15:07:06 to 15:07:26?)

[iwishforducks]

Some quick clarifications, and contextualization:

1. Logs are fucked up right now. No clue for how long they’ve been fucked up for, but (NEWHP: [x]) isn’t actually *new*. It records the player’s health and THEN deals the damage. You can see this by looking at the first attack log- how does a player that just took damage have 100% HP?

2. The last attack by the wraith is 0.5 seconds after he says he surrenders. There’s a good time gap between the last and second to last hit.

With both of these things out of the way, Pandarsenic’s assessment that they were on 35% HP is correct due to the timing of the last hit. After the last hit he would have 20% or 15% HP- depending on the limb struck.

Spoiler:

Some more info dump if you’re interested in the inner machinations:

Wraiths deal 20 damage on hit. Limbs only contribute to 75% of your overall damage, but they still take full damage. Getting hit in the chest would take you down to 80% HP, while in the arms/legs it’s only down to 85%. So it’s a toss up if the wraith could have critted in one or two hits after their last hit. (they were either at 20% or 15% HP after the last hit. Remember, logs are broken)

Spoiled because this isn’t really that on-topic but it’s still insightful.[/spoil]

[Archie700]

From the peanut:

Firstly - and perhaps most importantly - my memory is very poor. Be it short or long term, it all floats together and details mix, which is why i typed out my appeal as soon as my conversation with Thunder in ahelps concluded. I don't really know how to use scrubby, and frankly just wanted to get it over with since writing appeals is probably the least fun thing you can do related to ss13.
I forgot to mention two pretty important details in my appeal: The cult were final summoning in the captains office (on Metastation), and i was literally fresh out of arrivals when the announcement came. We assaulted through the lower and leftmost airlocks, and i ended up sandwiched between the gateway wall and the wall to the captain's office (iirc more toward the corporate showroom side of the corridor).
As for why i stayed behind with the medborg, that was because i (or maybe the borg? I forgor) was dragging a deepcrit cultist which i'd decided i'd deconvert.
The whole 5 minute complaint strikes me as odd: We'd already killed or deepcrit all the cultists by the ritual site, and since everyone else left as if it was over i had no reason to think there was another fully armed goon squad ready for round two.
I don't remember exactly how the fight went down, but i do know that a wraith came out of cap's office and began attacking me.
At some point i get stunned (I remember it as being put into and healing out of crit, but since that apparently didn't happen i'm guessing i either got cult airlock/item stunned, funnyhanded or someone cast the hallucination spell? I can't think of anything else that'd cause it) and when i get up there's a clown car's worth of cultists around me.

Finally, i saw someone say that i ought to play better considering my vast amount of playtime. The simple answer to that is that game knowledge means very little without the mental hardware to use it well. When I encounter unexpected situations with no time to plan, my gameplay falls apart and i do stupid/suboptimal shit. Hans Heisenberg gets owned a LOT because of this, as i'm sure many of my fellow terryites can attest.

I don't see anything weird with my roleplay here. Assaulting a cult ritual site is just one of those things you do as crew because everyone dies if they finish their incantation, but when being faced with the choice of immediate, near certain death or certain death a little later, the vast majority of people will obey the man with the knife, even if they know they're being taken somewhere isolated.

[TheBibleMelts]

hey there, i know we've been silent in this thread itself regarding the headmin review, but i promise we were having a pretty wild rollercoaster in the backrooms deliberating on the ins and outs of this.

while the ruling related to it being bannable for trying to get converted is closely tied to this, the spirit of said ruling was in the interest of stopping people who run straight into cult dens/cultists knowingly and let themselves be flipped for the sake of getting a free antagonist role. i do not believe that this ruling should be applied as a blanket for situations that have more nuance such as this, in particular i do not wish to set any manner of precedent where players are being discouraged from roleplaying. i don't want people to treat conversion type antagonists rounds as though it's deathmatch or bust, we've all seen that story told ad infinitum as it is.

this note will be lifted per our vote below.

► Show Spoiler

fikou - lift
cheshify - lift
thebiblemelts - lift

there were a lot of good points here expressed from both sides on the nature of this ban and the players intent, but given the potential precedent being set for future notes like this, i'd like to always give people who can provide an IC justification for their actions the benefit of the doubt.

!	Message from: Fikou
	My stance was assumed when I was asleep based on my thoughts before the context came in. I edited the post to have my current vote.

[Annihilite111]

Thank you for the (very) quick response.