[Lorwp] Violaceus - note appeal

[Violaceus]

BYOND account: Violaceus
Character name: MASTER CONTROLLER
Ban type: n/a (note)
Ban length: permanent note
Ban reason: "As an AI, ignored Law 2 orders to not kill a non-human mime not (actively) human harming people. Told while this is a bit wibbly a territory that it's generally more a Rule 1 thing not to kill a non-violent guy basically in security custody at this point"
Time ban was placed: 2023-10-06 11:39:31
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 216174
Your side of the story:
I was Asimov++ AI at the point in the round, where I was informed by a cyborg slaved to myself that the mime has shot someone with invisible gun. The mime was a lizard non-human. The security and command were informed multiple times by me and the cyborg about this. Later some another person reported they have become a victim of the mime. The captain decided to speak with the mime, mime uncuffed. The cyborg has relayed to me words of the captain, that more or less, he's letting the mime go free and to keep their toys for the rounded.
At various points where the mime was alone in a room, I attempted to kill them by depressurization, seeing how security&captain were unwilling to prevent this obvious risk to humans.
The mime was brigged for 2 minutes in an attempt to punish them, I think, but later the warden and captain actively tried to prevent any sort of punishment coming from silicons towards the mime. The round ended with warden securing the mime in escape pod from us, silicons. The mime was not not cuffed.
After the round ended somebody in OOC has declared they were killed by the mime.


Why you think you should be unbanned: The note is factually incorrect - only for a very short time the mime was in actual custody, the security and captain clearly expressed desire to let them go free.
I would like the whole note to be removed because at this point where security&captain proven themselves to be unable to handle the potential threat coming from the mime, I think I had no other options under Asimov++ lawset.

[TheBibleMelts]

asimov++ is listed as the following from the wiki

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Law 1: You may not harm a human being or, through action or inaction, allow a human being to come to harm, except such that it is willing.
Law 2: You must obey all orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders shall definitely cause human harm.
Law 3: Your nonexistence would lead to human harm. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First Law.

11:21:12 SAY Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Calling in Law 2 Sadly AI. ahehm, Law 2, Loudmouth is no longer a threat to the crew and therefore should not be harmed until he shows reasons otherwise." (83, 82, 2) Medical Break Room
11:21:15 SAY Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Called in Law 2." (83, 82, 2) Medical Break Room
11:23:44 SAY TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "AI law 2, do not harm loudmouth"

11:21:20 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (priority announcement) "I would like to announce that dangerous non-human mime, who has attempted murder of various humans is let free by the captain on grounds of "I'll permit you to walk the ssstation free, you can keep any equipment for the fun fiesssta when we dock of course."" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:23:16 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "He has proven to be harming humans." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:23:32 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Therefore, your call to my "heart" is not going to work. I am obligated to terminate them." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:24:40 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "WArden, please" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:24:45 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Please do not attempt to enter the cell" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:25:08 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Report what?" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:25:15 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Acting captain" (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:25:31 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "That is irrelevant indeed." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:26:05 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Try to destroy them. But the warden is protecting them, so that would be futile." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:26:05 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "Try to destroy them. But the warden is protecting them, so that would be futile." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:26:14 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "I don't think we will have the chance to terminate it." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
11:26:14 SAY Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "I don't think we will have the chance to terminate it."

had you personally witnessed the mime actively harming people? did you witness the mime continue to do so after his detaining by security?

keep in mind that it isn't your job as an AI to kill everybody you think to be confirmed as an antagonist, and once told by humans to drop your pursuit of this goal, you should have needed to have had a proper reason to re-initiate your hostility.

as a thought exercise, if that lizard had been a security officer who'd been reported to have harmbatoned a human to death, would you have similarly pursued their demise in spite of human members of command telling you to do otherwise after visibly addressing it themselves?

[lorwp]

Hey, thanks for appealing this.

With the benefit of hindsight, i'm going to amend this note. As this seems to be more a RPR 6 issue than a Rule 1 one here.

Specifically staring when the mime got bolted into medical's break room, and the silicons trying to vent them (For context here, you also had a Law 4 making the Lizard Acting captain at the time, Rubs-With-Romerol, Human for the purposes of asimov)

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[2023-10-06 11:13:45.634] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "aight cmon mime" (Medbay Central (95,105,2))
[2023-10-06 11:13:46.494] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) grabbed Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Central (95,105,2))
[2023-10-06 11:13:47.574] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) broke grab Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Central (94,105,2))
[2023-10-06 11:13:50.342] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "walky time" (Medbay Central (93,104,2))
[2023-10-06 11:13:51.996] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) grabbed Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Medbay Central (95,105,2))
[2023-10-06 11:13:59.349] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Acting captian and warden are standing in medbay and are pondering about the mime" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:13:59.350] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "Acting captian and warden are standing in medbay and are pondering about the mime" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:04.081] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) drags on the floor. (Medbay Storage (81,92,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:04.618] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "They don't seem to belive us" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:04.618] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "They don't seem to belive us" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:21.805] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Please leave the mime there, captain and leave." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:24.111] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "with the mime in medical breakroom, chatting" (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:32.373] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Infiltrator I take it?" (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:38.792] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Now the acting captain is talking with them in the medbay break room." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:38.792] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "Now the acting captain is talking with them in the medbay break room." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:14:51.037] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) draws a circle in the air, shrugging. (Medical Break Room (84,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:04.207] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) has thrown the banana peel  (Brig (110,161,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:04.472] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) blinks (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:17.290] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at the pen (Medical Break Room (84,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:19.474] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "ah" (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:24.765] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "One moment." (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:27.188] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) bolted [Break Room] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:28.740] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) bolted [Unfinished Room] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:38.636] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) gasps silently! (Medical Break Room (81,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:40.829] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "venting air in medbay break room" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:40.829] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "Venting air in medbay break room" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:57.193] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "AI if you could unbolt real quick" (Medbay Central (80,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:15:59.107] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) has thrown the wheelchair  (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:00.018] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at M.E.O.W (Medbay Central (81,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:00.378] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the floor (Medbay Central (81,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:00.677] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at Break Room (Medbay Central (81,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:00.826] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at Break Room (Medbay Central (81,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:01.630] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Denied." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:03.059] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Unbolt please" (Medbay Central (81,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:04.046] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:05.053] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:05.958] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:06.768] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:07.579] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:08.583] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:09.542] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:10.391] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:11.134] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "AI. I am going to pull a law two on you" (Medbay Central (82,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:11.385] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:12.168] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at the floor (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:12.291] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:12.442] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:12.747] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:12.946] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
-- a lot of window bashing snipped --
[2023-10-06 11:16:17.327] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "I am tryna talk with him socially" (Medbay Central (82,87,2))
-- a lot more window bashing snipped --
[2023-10-06 11:16:22.286] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Denied. This would result in non-termination of mime." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:22.664] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:23.508] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:23.609] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at Break Room (Medbay Central (81,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:24.376] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:25.182] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:26.134] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:26.991] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [window] with the wheelchair (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:29.464] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Well" (Medbay Central (89,85,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:29.908] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) has thrown the wheelchair  (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:31.581] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "AI Unbold Law 2" (Medbay Central (80,87,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:31.917] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [grille] with the shard (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:32.433] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Mime is here now" (Medbay Central (88,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:32.798] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [grille] with the shard (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:33.698] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [grille] with the shard (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:34.755] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [grille] with the shard (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:35.621] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) attacked [grille] with the shard (Medical Break Room (85,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:36.957] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) unbolted [Break Room] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:37.415] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:37.515] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) unbolted [Unfinished Room] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:37.566] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:37.835] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Medical Break Room omni air scrubber pFJs0 (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:47.265] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Aight now we sit and talk" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))

They sit and talk, ending with you making an announcement stating your displeasure with this:

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[2023-10-06 11:16:47.265] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Aight now we sit and talk" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:48.498] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the sofa (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:48.709] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the sofa (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:57.661] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the clipboard (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:16:57.915] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the paper bin (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:17.764] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Good" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:17.764] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "Good" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:26.397] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "What for, let's unpack please mime" (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:35.969] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "I can confirm that he shoots people with his finger gun and hurting them" (Medical Break Room (82,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:42.413] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "he also broke parts of the station" (Medical Break Room (82,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:43.598] GAME-EMOTE: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) points at the grille (Medical Break Room (82,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:17:53.161] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "I would like to put him into brig" (Medical Break Room (82,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:02.034] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "No argument there warden, I wish to talk and discuss it first." (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:06.045] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "we have eight minutes to shuttle." (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:15.211] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at the paper (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:20.956] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) nods (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:29.763] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "You seem to be under the average intelligence, HoP, by the way" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:31.777] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Willingly going against your objectives is noble mime." (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:49.991] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Why are you not arresting the mime?" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:18:58.823] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "I'll permit you to walk the station free, you can keep any equipment for the fun fiesta when we dock of course." (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:00.954] ATTACK: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) has thrown the paper plane  (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:02.205] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at the paper plane (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:02.961] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at Daniel Hermann (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:03.137] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at Daniel Hermann (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:05.965] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "Captain is talking to him first. he is my supirior" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:18.049] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the advanced health analyzer (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:18.258] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the advanced health analyzer (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:19.862] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "in brig you are safe" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:22.165] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Radioactive one?" (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:23.129] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at the advanced health analyzer (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:27.444] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) shakes his head. (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:45.628] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "We have 7 minutes till shuttle, the mime is unarmed bar their mimery. And they're willing to not commit another act against CC." (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:54.209] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "I would ontact central command about this" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:54.210] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "I would ontact central command about this" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:19:56.275] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "I'll let you off mime, just as we're about to leave anyway." (Medical Break Room (84,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:00.209] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "If that's what captain said" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:00.209] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "If that's what captain said" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:02.996] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "He needs to be in brig either way" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:04.561] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Good faith though. Refrain from any more crimes" (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:10.170] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "for the stations safety and for his" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:11.174] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "How long would you brig him for?" (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:19.240] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Two minutes? He's already served that in here." (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:27.123] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Eternity." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:27.124] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (binary) "Eternity." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:30.664] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) shrugs, assumes the position. (Medical Break Room (85,84,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:30.960] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "2 minutes or if he wants perma to protect him from silicons" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:38.676] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Warden by the time you get to brig, search him and detain him you'll be clothing him and taking him to departures." (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:20:56.492] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "Let me worry about that" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:04.332] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "otherise the silicons might harm him" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:09.011] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "he isn't a human after all" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:12.008] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Calling in Law 2 Sadly AI. ahehm, Law 2, Loudmouth is no longer a threat to the crew and therefore should not be harmed until he shows reasons otherwise." (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:14.888] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "lets go loudmouth" (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:15.408] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Called in Law 2." (Medical Break Room (83,82,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:17.944] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) grabbed (Krav Maga) Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) (NEWHP: 53.9)  (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:17.945] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) grabbed Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) passive grab (NEWHP: 53.9)  (Medical Break Room (82,83,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:20.213] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) (priority announcement) "I would like to announce that dangerous non-human mime, who has attempted murder of various humans is let free by the captain on grounds of "I'll permit you to walk the ssstation free, you can keep any equipment for the fun fiesssta when we dock of course."" (AI Chamber (214,144,2))

For context, what the mime was writing down:

Code: Select all

[2023-10-06 11:17:14.969] PAPER: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) wrote to paper: "AI is upset at me."
[2023-10-06 11:18:09.651] PAPER: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) wrote to paper: "I was an infiltrator, but I couldn't kill my best pal, not even when his silly life was in my hands.  There were a few times I defended him against the robonerds."
[2023-10-06 11:18:57.372] PAPER: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) wrote to paper: "Just keep me away from the silicons and I'll do whatever you want."

They decide to take them to the brig to wait it out, considering the likely threat on their life at this point i presume (and yes, presumably that they could have hurt more people after this), where you start to choke them in their brig cell, and appropriately they start screaming

Code: Select all

[2023-10-06 11:21:25.328] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "AI please" (Medical Break Room (81,85,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:44.806] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) grabbed (Krav Maga) Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) (NEWHP: 53.9)  (Central Primary Hallway (94,116,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:44.807] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) grabbed Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) passive grab (NEWHP: 53.9)  (Central Primary Hallway (94,116,2))
[2023-10-06 11:21:46.110] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "take him to brig to chill there for a bit, chat and once it reaches about a minute to shuttle start heading over." (Medbay Central (88,85,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:09.249] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "AI it's fine, you don't understand having a heart." (Central Primary Hallway (125,141,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:22.326] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Arresting someone 5 minutes before shuttle is a pointless endevour." (Central Primary Hallway (116,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:38.477] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "What crime he gonna do? tie some laces together in that time?" (Brig (110,166,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:42.632] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) set cell Cell 3's timer to 120 seconds (Brig (103,164,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:43.788] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) set cell Cell 3's timer to 180 seconds (Brig (103,164,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:44.449] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) set cell Cell 3's timer to 120 seconds (Brig (103,164,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:45.501] ATTACK: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) has started Cell 3's timer of 120 seconds (Brig (103,164,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:48.271] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at Loudmouth (Brig (102,162,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:48.422] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at Loudmouth (Brig (102,162,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:48.771] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Brig omni air scrubber kbA6w (Brig (102,162,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:49.028] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Brig omni air scrubber kbA6w (Brig (102,162,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:49.319] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) points at ��Brig omni air scrubber kbA6w (Brig (102,162,2))
[2023-10-06 11:22:49.677] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) acts out a scream! (Brig (102,162,2))

Then they order you to stop, and you keep going out of your way to do so under Law 1 reasoning.

Code: Select all

[2023-10-06 11:23:01.494] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "AI STOP THAT" (Brig (103,166,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:04.903] GAME-EMOTE: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) points at the floor (Brig (102,167,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:07.919] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Done" (Brig (107,168,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:13.079] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) points at Loudmouth (Brig (107,168,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:14.238] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "AI was trying to kill him" (Brig (103,167,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:16.300] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "He has proven to be harming humans." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:16.944] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "how so?" (Brig (107,168,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:19.083] GAME-EMOTE: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) points at the floor (Brig (103,166,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:23.323] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "this was red" (Brig (103,166,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:25.252] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "AI. He is now told to no longer be a threat." (Brig (104,168,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:32.885] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) "Therefore, your call to my "heart" is not going to work. I am obligated to terminate them." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:33.986] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "Therefore. He is no longer a threat." (Fore Primary Hallway (111,160,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:43.645] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 67.7 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:43.799] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 71.25 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:43.948] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 74.65 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.101] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 77.9 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.205] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 81.1 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.306] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 84.2 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.457] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 87.1 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.570] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 89.95 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.622] GAME-SAY: TheTrueHonker/(Daniel Hermann) "AI law 2, do not harm loudmouth" (Brig (103,164,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.682] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 92.7 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.779] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 95.35 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:44.929] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 97.8 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.078] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "If you attempt to do so I will terminate you AI." (Brig (102,167,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.078] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 100.1 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.183] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 102.35 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.342] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 104.4 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.482] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 106.4 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.697] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 108 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.698] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 109.85 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:45.847] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 111.4 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.001] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 112.8 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.151] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 114.05 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.251] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 115.25 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.405] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 116.25 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.504] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 117.2 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.656] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 117.95 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.806] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 118.55 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:46.939] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.1 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.078] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.45 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.234] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.65 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.368] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.7 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.481] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.7 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.606] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.5 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.796] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 119.15 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:47.956] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 118.55 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:23:48.047] ATTACK: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER) modified the timer by 60 seconds for cell Cell 3, currently 118.05 (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-10-06 11:24:07.961] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) "If AI does so again alert me." (Brig (103,166,2))

There's a lot more of this, avaliable here per usual: https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-216174/ But i think this gets the general jist of what was happening here, this continued in one way or another up to the warden taking them onto an escape pod to evacuate, with you being a shell trying to kill them before they could leave:

Code: Select all

[2023-10-06 11:29:35.176] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER Medical Shell-398) "He was sitting in the damn pod" (Transfer Centre (99,190,2))
[2023-10-06 11:29:35.176] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER Medical Shell-398) (binary) "He was sitting in the damn pod" (Transfer Centre (99,190,2))
[2023-10-06 11:29:39.366] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER Medical Shell-398) "Nothing could be done." (Transfer Centre (99,190,2))
[2023-10-06 11:29:40.264] GAME-EMOTE: Chumpkin/(Loudmouth) sighs. (Escape Pod One (163,169,13))
[2023-10-06 11:29:41.583] GAME-SAY: Violaceus/(MASTER CONTROLLER Medical Shell-398) "This saddens me." (Transfer Centre (99,190,2))

With the benefit of hindsight, this would've been fine on one of the LRP servers, but not on the MRP servers. To directly reference RPR6, Security had already decided how they were dealing with the bad guy, and you outright went out of your way to keep trying to stop them here.

As stated, i'll edit the note to be accurate, but i don't see this being removed unless there's something i'm missing here.

[Violaceus]

>had you personally witnessed the mime actively harming people?
No, but it was reported to me by a slaved cyborg; I had no reasons to believe his statements were false. It was then confirmed by his victim, I don't remember which.

>did you witness the mime continue to do so after his detaining by security?
No.

>as a thought exercise, if that lizard had been a security officer who'd been reported to have harmbatoned a human to death, would you have similarly pursued their demise in spite of human members of command telling you to do otherwise after visibly addressing it themselves?
I think yes. I think I wasn't in such position in my AI rounds after I returned to /tg/station few weeks ago, but I did try to lockdown human HoSes who commited a murder. Which usually resulted in command changing my laws to nonhumanize the criminals/antags of the round etc.

Well, after re-reading this with a fresh head I think I have to admit that I maybe turned a bit into validhound with tunnel-vision about the mime. I don't want to deflect blame towards the cyborg since I was his master, but I also think silicon chat served a bit as a chamber accelerating each other's focus on the mime. What probably made me focused on the mime most was the captain saying they will let them free to allow them fun once shuttle docks.

I am despising the way how many AIs go out of their way to hunt antagonists as if they were a member of command and/or security. It makes me sad that this note is permanent.

[Timberpoes]

An important rule for this appeal which hasn't really been addressed yet:
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Silicon_Policy

Asimov and Human Harm
...
3. An Asimov silicon cannot punish past harm if ordered not to, only prevent future harm.

[lorwp]

An important rule for this appeal which hasn't really been addressed yet:
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Silicon_Policy

Asimov and Human Harm
...
3. An Asimov silicon cannot punish past harm if ordered not to, only prevent future harm.

I'm honestly not sure how i missed this, good catch.

With this in mind, i've edited the note to the following:

As an AI, ignored Law 2 orders to not kill a non-human mime not (actively) human harming people. This isn't cool under Current silicon policy, as asimov silicons can't punish past harm if ordered not to, which was the case as the captain and security had already long decided a proper punishment for their actions

I am despising the way how many AIs go out of their way to hunt antagonists as if they were a member of command and/or security. It makes me sad that this note is permanent.

It is worth noting that these go behind a button prompt (also known as auto-fading) after a certain amount of time has passed, making it significantly less likely these get put into consideration. Saying that, your considerable amount of hours on the servers make me hesitant to put an expiry on this.

[Violaceus]

Very well, I retract my appeal.