Cheshify| xzero314 |Note Appeal.

[xzero314]

b]BYOND account:[/b] xzero314
Character name: Clara White
Ban type: NOTE
Ban length:
Ban reason: As a Captain, ordered the execution of a heretic on MRP who hadn't actually done anything yet. You need more reason than antag status to round remove someone.
Time ban was placed: 2023-10-03 03:11:36
Server you were playing on when banned: Manual
Round ID in which ban was placed: 215933
Your side of the story:
I am here argue that this note should at most be expiring. I feel like its unclear when the line is crossed over to somebody being "friendly" and therefore valid.
I was the Captain. The Rd was a heretic. I executed them for being a heretic and killing what I thought was Ian (was just a corgi it turned out)

Why you think you should be unbanned:

So from my point of view I walked in on the RD being arrested on a transmutation Rune covered in blood and Corgi hide. At this point the RD starts claiming they havent killed anybody. I cant really say the situation was so dire that I could not have verified this, I also understand the whole "tracker and release" But I was under the understanding these are rules for security and that I as Captain can authorize executions, At the time I had thought they killed ian and had no reason to believe they had not committed murder. Normally I would go with tracker and release with a heretic caught that hasnt killed anybody yet however they were ONE: THE RD and TWO we had already had heretic victims from what I remember. Allowing them to roam free with a tracker would be extremely dangerous due to how much access and authority they could use even if fired. I will also say that jumping to executions is never my first go to. During this particular shift I had been given a cannon by central command and I honestly let it get to my head wanting a place to use it and a captured heretic was a good target. I also feel like this falls under friendly antagonists always being valid if we are going to get into it. After the RD was captured they claimed they were "not going to hurt anybody" I have no way to verify this other than "ok sure go ahead go free" and hope they dont murder. Just yesterday I did exactly this. Tracker and released a heretic only for them to go kill more.


Anything else we should know: I think this note should be temporary at most really. I had no way of knowing if they had not murdered anybody and their claims that they werent going to had no real backing (on top of making them perfectly valid under this policy? "Explicitly friendly antagonists do not have this protection and may be treated as the crew or admin team see fit.". If I had been security it would be fair but I was the Captain and I made the choice to execute a dangerous eoc. a permanent note with the amount of play time I have over something I clearly dont do often or at all is very harsh. Especially with the policy of friendly antags being fully valid.

[Vekter]

Hey, so Cheshify is dealing with some IRL stuff at the moment and asked me to take this over for them.

Based on the ticket between you and Cheshify, your reasoning doesn't add up here:

From Ticket #15 during round 215933 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2023-10-03 03:01:33: Ticket Opened by cheshify: May I ask why you had the RD executed?
2023-10-03 03:01:58: Reply from xzero314: He was a heretic. hos found the stuff in his bag
2023-10-03 03:02:23: Reply from cheshify: Were you aware of any of their crimes?
2023-10-03 03:02:57: Reply from xzero314: other than having the heretical stuff no.
2023-10-03 03:03:38: Reply from xzero314: but i found therm in a pile of remains and with a dead ian if that matters
2023-10-03 03:07:29: Reply from cheshify: Okay, you need a better reason than "they're an antag" to execute someone on MRP. Track them, pacify them, gulag them, don't just straight up murder em.
2023-10-03 03:08:18: Reply from xzero314: Yeah going to be honest I let the cannon get to my head. I will recitfy it if still possible. Sorry about that. Tell them my bad too
2023-10-03 03:09:32: Reply from cheshify: That's fine, I get the funny cannon going to your head and I'll send an apology. Please be careful in the future.
2023-10-03 03:10:49: <a>Cheshify</a>/(Mezus Mazzau) has created a note for Xzero314<br />As a Captain, ordered the execution of a heretic on MRP who hadn't actually done anything yet. You need more reason than antag status to round remove someone.
2023-10-03 03:12:18: Resolved by Cheshify
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

• By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/215933/15
• By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/215933/15

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.17.5

You explicitly presented to Cheshify that the reason you killed the RD was simply because they were a Heretic, not because of any perceived crimes aside from possibly killing Ian. The situation was somewhat muddied and it was possible that the RD had killed someone, so that was why this was left at a note and not a ban.

I don't think I agree with making this note temporary. This is a pretty major break of MRP rules - you're expected to give antags a fighting chance if they haven't actually done anything antagonistic yet, and "finding them covered in blood" is a valid reason to investigate further, not to execute them. You need hard-line evidence that they committed a crime worthy of execution, which I don't believe you had.

Temporary notes are generally reserved for situations where something relatively minor occurs that we don't think will be an issue in the future, but could be a problem if it happens again within a certain time frame. Things like IC in OOC (or vice versa), greytiding, etc. Executing someone outside of acceptable terms on MRP isn't something we would usually make a temporary note for. We also sometimes reduce the severity of a note by placing an expiry time on it if there's extenuating circumstances, but in this case, the fact that this was a note instead of a ban is that reduction of severity. You were let off with a warning.

If you're ever not 100% certain that executing someone is okay, feel free to consult with us and we'll help you make that decision, but in general, you should be able to point to a specific crime that antagonist has committed and that you have explicit evidence of.

[xzero314]

I dont disagree with the note but I do disagree with it being permanent, During the situation I thought I had valid reasons. The ahelp with Cheshify came later after I had thought it over more and had realized already it was not entirely fair of me. The decision to execute them wasnt done maliciously it was just done wrongfully and I accept that. I believe the amount of command hours and Sec hours I have without such an incident speaks for itself.

[Vekter]

I understand that, but I firmly disagree with making the note temporary. Your actions would have normally justified a day ban and you were given a note instead. Reducing it further is not justified.

I appreciate your clean history over your time here and I think you're a valuable player, but even our best players make mistakes sometimes.

[xzero314]

Well I have nothing more to add. Thanks for your time.

[Vekter]

No problem, thanks for understanding.