[MSO] 1d mute time on discord.

[Somepan]

Ban Details
Discord account:
Ban type: Muted on discord
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: "Despite making up .... memes are banned on this discord"
Time ban was placed: like 5 minutes ago


Reasons for Appealing - Delete irrelevant sections :
Here are the relevant discord messages.
https://imgur.com/a/R9F9ape
As for the actual argument of the ban. I'm going to assume MSO is going to say it's bigoted towards men to mention mass shootings statistics the same it is if i brought up crime statistics for black people. This is going to be a bit long.

I am not calling men inherently violent, i am stating that we generally socialize men to be more confrontational, violent, aggressive.
When racist people bring up the crime statistics for black people they claim they are inherently violent, that's what makes it racist.

There is however other causes for why those stats are higher, overpolicing of black neighbourghoods, the fact that poor people are more likely to get incarcerated, the fact that black neighbourghoods are plagued with drugs issues thanks to past CIA practises, and such.
For mass shootings; men are taught to be more violent, etc etc, are more lonely on average, are more suicidal on average.

Now my question is, if i brought up the crime statistics for black people and crime, and went "this is caused by {things i've stated earlier such as overpolicing}", we should get rid of that, would it be bannable ?I don't think so, Would it be it racist ? I don't think it is either.

If you disagree MSO, feel free, but please, explain why. Because i do not understand why would you mute me for this.

PS: i know you don't like when i tell people not to engage with you in political discussions, this is exactly why, maybe i wouldn't say that if you didn't punish people for trying to speak with you.

[Vekter]

Yeah, I pinged him, good luck.

Did he mute you everywhere or just from Polcon?

[MrStonedOne]

[3:04 PM]Sealcel: I dont like the hrt could have saved her meme
[3:04 PM]MrStonedOne: i mean its low key also sexist ya
[3:04 PM]Sealcel: how do you figure
[3:07 PM]MrStonedOne: the idea is to attack their masculinity by using the inverse (femininity) as an insult, while implying that if they were the other gender they wouldn't have x toxic traits. like most sexism, it hurts both genders
[3:08 PM]Sealcel: I think the implication is moreso "this was an act of violence caused by self hatred", not using femininity or masculinity themselves are bad insulting or toxic
[3:09 PM]Nº1 MSO HATER: <graph of the gender of school shooter's gender replying to my 3:07 message>
[3:09 PM]Nº1 MSO HATER: mass shootings are overwhelmingly perpetrated by men MSO. Because men are taught to be aggresive and violent.
[3:09 PM]Nº1 MSO HATER: Yet you shit on the whole movement that calls that shit out for what it is, toxic <mso note, this is referring to a convo from earlier this week of me not liking feminism's framing of men and mens issues because i feel it tends to blame men for having them while reinforcing these same gendered stereotypes by over reporting and over focusing on a minority of violent people who happen to be male. as well as feminist flavored spaces using male coded words to refer to toxic behaviors of people who happen to be men like mansplain,manspread,manchild.>
[3:10 PM]MrStonedOne ?timeout apply @Nº1 MSO HATER 1d Despite making up .... memes are banned on this discord
<3 minutes of me not being able to get the bot to apply more than a 10m timeout (because i took away my discord jannie role while dealing with pain and medical issues) omitted but you the reader should go seek it out because polcon found it funny>
[3:11 PM]Gwyn Meanie Arc: I was about to say that was actually just 13/100 but for men
[3:11 PM]The Wrench (Prudish Arc?): That’s not even remotely close
[3:11 PM]The Wrench (Prudish Arc?): She was bringing up a statistic
[3:11 PM]Gwyn Meanie Arc: bro you cant cite school shooter statistics to prove that men are inherently violent
[3:11 PM]Gwyn Meanie Arc: That's fucked
[3:13 PM]The Wrench (Prudish Arc?): Out of all shooters, the vast majority of men
[3:13 PM]The Wrench (Prudish Arc?): If the vast majority of men were shooters, we wouldn’t be in a very good spot now would we
[3:13 PM]The Wrench (Prudish Arc?): It’s because of toxic male culture and the inability of society to treat men not like disposable wipes
[3:13 PM]Gwyn Meanie Arc: It's a pretty fucking inflammatory argument to pull up school shooter statistics to try and demonstrate men are voilent

Now my question is, if i brought up the crime statistics for black people and crime, and went "this is caused by {things i've stated earlier such as overpolicing}", we should get rid of that, would it be bannable ?I don't think so, Would it be it racist ? I don't think it is either.

This is a good question, let's rephrase it a few ways.

Now my question is, if i brought up the crime statistics for black people and crime, and went "this is caused by overpolicing", we should get rid of that, would it be bannable ?I don't think so, Would it be it racist ? I don't think it is either.

Correct. Pointing out that the stats are biased because they reflect a biased approach to law enforcement is something that would be allowed.

Now my question is, if i brought up the crime statistics for men and crime, and went "this is caused by overpolicing", we should get rid of that, would it be bannable ?I don't think so, Would it be it sexist ? I don't think it is either.

you didn't say this, but it would also be correct, for the same reason.

Now my question is, if i brought up the crime statistics for black people and crime, and went "this is caused by how black people are socialized to behave", we should get rid of that, would it be bannable ?I don't think so, Would it be it racist ? I don't think it is either.

And i think now you might maybe be able to see why what you said was problematic. "How they are socialized" has been historically used as a thin veil for racism.

But we still need to come back to the original context. The idea you were dispelling was the idea that it is sexist to say transitioning to a women would keep somebody from committing violent acts. You posted the graph of mass shooter genders in opposition to that. Specifically wrt to hrt.

Can you see how that might come off as problematic?

And another set of questions:

If the stats on violent crimes by race was 100% true, 100% accurate, and had no bias in it, nor external systemic manipulation, if that magical fantasy world was reality, would it be acceptable to point the stats out? Maybe claim it's because of socialization? Put some fancy words around it like toxic blaculinity? Start talking about gang violence with language that presumes perpetrators of it are mexican by default? When somebody argues that saying 'x wouldn't do y if they were white' is racist just posting a graph of crime rates to dispel the claim of racism?

I've never played into the whole bias stats argument because its irrelevant, linking toxic traits to demographics is the hallmark tool of bigotry.

[Somepan]

Yeah, I pinged him, good luck.

Did he mute you everywhere or just from Polcon?

all of discord yes.

[Somepan]

I've never played into the whole bias stats argument because its irrelevant, linking toxic traits to demographics is the hallmark tool of bigotry.

Yet you link all of men's problems to women, curious.

I'm not going to entertain your shit here, i explained my pov, you explained yours. If you don't want to do anything about this ban no one can even force your hand to, so. Feel free to close it if you're done with it.
edit: also i don't know why you bring up what others said on the subject when i didn't engage with the HRT whatever thingy.

[Somepan]

But we still need to come back to the original context. The idea you were dispelling was the idea that it is sexist to say transitioning to a women would keep somebody from committing violent acts. You posted the graph of mass shooter genders in opposition to that. Specifically wrt to hrt.

Also no what, i was just poking holes in whatever you said, i don't give a fuck about what others said. I don't even know why the topic was brought up, i haven't seen anyone claim HRT could make people refrain from shooting other people, the meme was comparing eliot rodget to abigail shapiro and doing a little "omg they're trans...".

I wasn't defending their arguments i was shitting on yours because they suck
I don't think you will unmute for this but for 3rd parties reading this. I DO NOT THINK HRT WOULD'VE SAVED ELLIOT RODGET I AM STUPID MY READING COMPREHENSION IS SHIT ty.

Edit: after pondering for like 10 minutes why the fuck i brought up those stats, i think i was attacking the part where MSO talks about ascribing toxic characteristics to a specific gender, which is implied, the logic he mentions in his message doesn't work if you don't do that. I didn't mean that elliot changing his gender would've saved him because that's dumb as fuck, i just meant that, yes you could suppose that a woman would be less prone than a man to do a mass shooting, because of socialization, and that MSO would probably shit on the concept of toxic masculinity because he dislikes anything feminism that isn't broadly accepted(Like i don't think he's against women voting).

[MrStonedOne]

I wasn't defending their arguments i was shitting on yours because they suck
I don't think you will unmute for this but for 3rd parties reading this. I DO NOT THINK HRT WOULD'VE SAVED ELLIOT RODGET I AM STUPID MY READING COMPREHENSION IS SHIT ty.

Edit: after pondering for like 10 minutes why the fuck i brought up those stats, i think i was attacking the part where MSO talks about ascribing toxic characteristics to a specific gender, which is implied, the logic he mentions in his message doesn't work if you don't do that. I didn't mean that elliot changing his gender would've saved him because that's dumb as fuck, i just meant that, yes you could suppose that a woman would be less prone than a man to do a mass shooting, because of socialization, and that MSO would probably shit on the concept of toxic masculinity because he dislikes anything feminism that isn't broadly accepted(Like i don't think he's against women voting).

This is the first time you have actually reflected on what you were saying and not trying to pigeonhole why i banned you. I like this version of you.

So to summarize, while you still think it was ok to point to crime stats to ascribe traits to demographics under the banner of "socialization" you do see why the context of the convo makes what you were saying look really bad, and are saying that you just hadn't read the rest of the context of the convo?

Is it too hard to make that final leap? To acknowledge that these same stats are used by people to justify stereotyping individuals based on their demographics. To link the demographic with the toxic trait.

I've said time and time again, associating toxic/evil/bad/negative traits is the hallmark tool of bigotry. It is often the first shot. One need only to look at recent lgbtq hate and labeling of them as groomers to see what I am referring to.

Off Topic

► Show Spoiler

and that MSO would probably shit on the concept of toxic masculinity because he dislikes anything feminism that isn't broadly accepted(Like i don't think he's against women voting).

For the record, i am an egalitarian, I believe in equality, women should have the right to vote and the requirement to register for the draft. Feminism doesn't own the concept of gender equality, its an ideology and academic framework that just *happens* to get in the way of fixing men's issue with concepts like male privilege (among many others). so Feminism has to go.

Fun fact, the National Organization of Women used to have a whole ass section in their statement of purpose about how they rejected the notion that men should have to be the sole supporter of a household or "that a woman is automatically entitled to lifelong support by a man upon her marriage" and this section was removed the same time the word feminism was added to the statement of purpose which was also around the time they started publishing "notices" about fathers rights lobby claiming the lobbys only wanted equal custody to skimp on child support.

Every time this subject comes up i'm gonna likely remember yet another reason i hate feminism. it's been years since i was immersed in mra culture.

On the topic of toxic masculinity the bottom line is it becomes sexist the moment you start to use it to refer to the behaviors of individuals. Its ok to refer to the expectations placed on men generally as toxic but not ok to label behaviors of people who happen to be male as examples of toxic masculinity or try to link the behaviors to the expectations.

Im reducing this ban to time served (which is about 4 hours and 20 minutes) because you are actually reflecting on the behavior behind your ban (and not dipping your appeal in 5 layers of pandering sarcasm like some of your previous appeals for polcon conduct.)