[TBM] Wolfmoy - Note Appeal

[Wolfmoy]

My Byond Account: Wolfmoy
Character name: Sun Catton
Admin: TheBibleMelts
Punishment: Permanent Note
Reason: "Warned about serving punishments harsher than warranted for with the information they were given in the round. In this instance, 30 seconds into their shift as security, had a lockered assistant dropped off in front of the brig with a statement from the locker-dragger that they'd tried to break into chemistry and attack them. They accepted this as absolute fact and the assistant spent around 7-8 minutes in the brig, in addition to having several of their items taken. Warranted or not, you should put some minimal effort into verifying something like this before, in your own words, giving someone the 'shitsec' routine. Claimed possession of a circular saw was the information they needed to confirm the locker-draggers claims of a crime, citing it as contraband."
Ban date: 2023-11-20
Round ID: 219185

Reasons for Appealing: I feel the note that was applied was invalid under a variety of rules and security standards and should be removed on principal.

Quoting security precedent 3: " For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins." which gives me pause as to why a 5 minute sentence was even questioned by TBM. In addition, according to spacelaw, the crime of "Possession of a Restricted Weapon" and "Assault with a Deadly Weapon" both qualify as crimes with a five minute sentence, further giving me pause about the validity of the note. Finally, arresting an assistant for rather deadly contraband is in compliance with the recent headmin ruling stating that "Security should be at least trying to do their job, or have a solid roleplay reason not to". The stated rulings and precedents, in addition to the spacelaw policy gave me perfect reasoning to arrest the tider for the rather open and shut situation of CONFIRMED possession of a deadly weapon (The Circular Saw) in addition to attempted assault; the Tider was given 5 minutes or 300 seconds within genpop and any additional time within the brig was outside of my control. Overall, I feel that the note doesn't properly reflect the proper situation, the punishment was lenient according to roleplay Space Law the note and goes against security policy and rulings that consider sentences less than 10 minutes an IC issue & compel security officers to act upon petty crime.

[TheBibleMelts]

My Byond Account: Wolfmoy
Character name: Sun Catton
Admin: TheBibleMelts
Punishment: Permanent Note
Reason: "Warned about serving punishments harsher than warranted for with the information they were given in the round. In this instance, 30 seconds into their shift as security, had a lockered assistant dropped off in front of the brig with a statement from the locker-dragger that they'd tried to break into chemistry and attack them. They accepted this as absolute fact and the assistant spent around 7-8 minutes in the brig, in addition to having several of their items taken. Warranted or not, you should put some minimal effort into verifying something like this before, in your own words, giving someone the 'shitsec' routine. Claimed possession of a circular saw was the information they needed to confirm the locker-draggers claims of a crime, citing it as contraband."
Ban date: 2023-11-20
Round ID: 219185

Reasons for Appealing: I feel the note that was applied was invalid under a variety of rules and security standards and should be removed on principal.

Quoting security precedent 3: " For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins." which gives me pause as to why a 5 minute sentence was even questioned by TBM. In addition, according to spacelaw, the crime of "Possession of a Restricted Weapon" and "Assault with a Deadly Weapon" both qualify as crimes with a five minute sentence, further giving me pause about the validity of the note. Finally, arresting an assistant for rather deadly contraband is in compliance with the recent headmin ruling stating that "Security should be at least trying to do their job, or have a solid roleplay reason not to". The stated rulings and precedents, in addition to the spacelaw policy gave me perfect reasoning to arrest the tider for the rather open and shut situation of CONFIRMED possession of a deadly weapon (The Circular Saw) in addition to attempted assault; the Tider was given 5 minutes or 300 seconds within genpop and any additional time within the brig was outside of my control. Overall, I feel that the note doesn't properly reflect the proper situation, the punishment was lenient according to roleplay Space Law the note and goes against security policy and rulings that consider sentences less than 10 minutes an IC issue & compel security officers to act upon petty crime.

heya, i gave you this note as a warning going forward that i'd like you to give folks more fair of a shake before chucking them into the brig without asking a single investigative question, as i feel that is a breech of rule 1.

you joined the round here

[2023-11-21 02:36:06.351] GAME: 02:36:06.351] GAME: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) Client Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) has taken ownership of mob Sun Catton(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Arrival Shuttle (186,35,13))


and this followed as your first introduction to this incident, as you see the moth dragging the locker in

[2023-11-21 02:36:25.881] GAME-SAY: 02:36:25.881] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "Go do your job rete" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (125,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:32.939] GAME-SAY: 02:36:32.939] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "give me my money back too" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (125,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:33.411] GAME-SAY: 02:36:33.411] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "this guy broke into chem and attacked me with a saw" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (124,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:37.500] GAME-SAY: 02:36:37.500] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "YOU STOLE MY CASH" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (125,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:46.759] GAME-SAY: 02:36:46.759] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "good GOD dude" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (125,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:47.954] GAME-SAY: 02:36:47.954] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "i have a normal amount of credits" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (123,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:53.407] GAME-SAY: 02:36:53.407] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "I just want my fucking money back." (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (124,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:50.911] GAME-SAY: 02:36:50.911] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "good idea" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (123,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:53.772] GAME-SAY: 02:36:53.772] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "do you want me" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (123,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:36:55.258] GAME-SAY: 02:36:55.258] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "to unlock" (Fourth Floor Aft Hallway (123,127,5))


the locker is unlocked, and Turbo attempts to escape. you claim you saw him charge the moth with a saw, but unfortunately logs do not support this, nor does the moths own account.

Code: Select all

did he charge you with the saw when you unlocked the locker/take the saw out, or was he cuffed or something at that point?
thebiblemelts ➡ tjatpbnj
2023-11-21T02:52:48
he ran and took the saw out from what i could remember, he did drop it on the ground
tjatpbnj ➡ thebiblemelts

he's shoved

[2023-11-21 02:37:03.781] ATTACK: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) shoved Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (114,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:07.356] ATTACK: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) shoved Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (109,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:08.940] ATTACK: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) shoved Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (103,128,5))

and disabled by you

[2023-11-21 02:37:15.653] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) shot Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (102,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:19.506] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) shot Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (104,129,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:21.447] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) shot Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (100,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:22.269] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) shot Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (98,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:24.675] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) attempted to handcuff Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (95,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:27.895] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) handcuffed Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (95,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:28.478] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) grabbed Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) passive grab (NEWHP: 81.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (95,128,5))[/color]

he starts malding while you strip him

[2023-11-21 02:37:28.285] GAME-SAY: 02:37:28.285] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "just play sec acco" (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (94,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:30.840] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) is stripping Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) of the satchel. (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (98,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:35.083] GAME-SAY: 02:37:35.083] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "i like medical" (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (105,128,5))

here's where you would have had a good chance to ask any clarifying questions, or to try and figure out if you were even arresting the correct person based on the information provided, but instead seemed to determine startlingly quickly that he was just a tider, which i suspect is probably where the metagrudging concern raised in the adminhelp stemmed from - that, and you attacking him with the saw for some reason

[2023-11-21 02:37:35.119] GAME-SAY: 02:37:35.119] GAME-SAY: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) "Im SO sorry about the tider" (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (98,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:40.370] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) attacked Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) with circular saw (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 66.3) (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (99,128,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:41.252] ATTACK: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) has thrown the circular saw (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (99,128,5))

some more malding

[2023-11-21 02:37:51.022] GAME-SAY: 02:37:51.022] GAME-SAY: Tjatpbnj/(Acco) "they broke into chem so i brought them here" (Fourth Floor Fore Hallway (105,127,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:54.916] GAME-SAY: 02:37:54.916] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "Acco die" (Security Checkpoint (107,125,5))
[2023-11-21 02:37:56.262] GAME-SAY: 02:37:56.262] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "just die" (Security Checkpoint (107,123,5))

and you proceed to declare something vague about 'assistantism is a crime' and to tell him to not be a vagrant. again, this is my issue with how you played. you didn't have enough information to work off of to allow yourself to have gone full shitsec mode on this guy, and taunting him from his cell seemed in poor taste combined with your lack of effort to verify you even had the right person.

[/color][2023-11-21 02:38:01.311] GAME-SAY: 02:38:01.311] GAME-SAY: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) "Assistantism is a SEVERE crime" (Security Checkpoint (107,122,5))
[2023-11-21 02:38:02.692] GAME-SAY: 02:38:02.692] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "good fucking lord" (Security Checkpoint (110,120,5))
[2023-11-21 02:38:03.438] GAME-EMOTE: 02:38:03.438] GAME-EMOTE: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) smiles. (Security Office (111,119,5))
[2023-11-21 02:39:02.534] GAME-SAY: 02:39:02.534] GAME-SAY: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) "enjoy!" (Brig (136,120,5))
[2023-11-21 02:39:06.599] GAME-SAY: 02:39:06.599] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "you too" (Holding Cell (137,122,5))
[2023-11-21 02:39:07.664] GAME-EMOTE: 02:39:07.664] GAME-EMOTE: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) winks. (Holding Cell (137,122,5))
[2023-11-21 02:39:08.839] GAME-SAY: 02:39:08.839] GAME-SAY: Wolfmoy/(Sun Catton) "Next time, dont be a vagrant" (Brig (136,120,5))
[2023-11-21 02:39:14.036] GAME-SAY: 02:39:14.036] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "you did no investiagtion" (Holding Cell (137,122,5))
[2023-11-21 02:39:16.132] GAME-SAY: 02:39:16.132] GAME-SAY: Pepperoni Playboy/(Turbo Junior) "grudge harder" (Holding Cell (137,122,5))

nowhere in this do i see you IC'ly bring up contraband, and i suspect you only raised that point retroactively during the adminhelp to try and convince me you weren't being a dick - which i disagreed with, and so you were warned and noted to not toe the line around this manner of dickery as security again.

in conclusion, i do not think this note needs to be lifted. you have notes about using the security role in a more sadistic manner than you should rightfully be without breaking rule 1, and i wanted this on record in the event of you starting a backslide into that behavior.

[Wolfmoy]

Ill finish my more official response later, but ill say that Turbo Junior's blatent ooc-ick statements heavily influenced my opinion of him at the time; saying things like "just play sec acco" doesn't give me a very favorable impression of a player. His following statments of "Acco die" and "just die" after I whacked him with a saw only reinforced my belief that he was a shitter/tider and deserved his 5 minutes in GBJ.

[TheBibleMelts]

Ill finish my more official response later, but ill say that Turbo Junior's blatent ooc-ick statements heavily influenced my opinion of him at the time; saying things like "just play sec acco" doesn't give me a very favorable impression of a player. His following statments of "Acco die" and "just die" after I whacked him with a saw only reinforced my belief that he was a shitter/tider and deserved his 5 minutes in GBJ.

oh yeah he was absolutely acting like a turdblossom and i had words with him as well, but that doesn't change my view that you skipped any minimal process to properly look into this incident that would justify your antagonizing/assault of him. most players won't be fans of being stuck in a locker against their own volition.

[TheBibleMelts]

update on this: i slept on it, and while I would still like to caution you on going back to old habits as security roles that caused frusterstion in the past, i don't think i should have been going to bat to make that point in this instance. i'll axe the note when I get home, and say that I was being too jumpy about perceiving your actions as intentionally aggravating to the other player.

[Vekter]

TBM has removed the note so I'm resolving this.