[Iansdoor] Daliistaken - A Game of Chance

[Lizardistaken]

Ban Details
BYOND account: Daliistaken
Character name: Lizard-Man
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 7 days
Ban reason: "As a non-antag assistant started a game of chance with two cubes, one being a gorilla cube that maimed and killed 7 folks. "i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on, though i didn't activate the cubes" is a flimsy excuse to grief."
Time ban was placed: 14:51:38
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 219659

Reasons for Appealing
First and foremost, I was not the person who released the gorilla from the cube. Somebody else randomly grabbed an extinguisher and activated both cubes, ensuring that a gorilla would be unleashed, which was out of my control.

I will start this off by saying that I was not "griefing", I was not trying to give people a bad time and I thought that my intentions behind this incident would have been clear, so I don't think calling this incident "grief" is accurate.

But before I go further into this, let's look at the very definition of grief: It is "the activity of deliberately annoying other players in a game played on the Internet, or doing things that spoil the game for them". Let's also consider the main general purpose of the rules; they are meant to ensure that the game is enjoyable and that as many people as possible are having fun. With these principles in mind, the questions that should be asked when considering if a ban should be placed or not would, on a general basis, be something along the lines of "did this player worsen the quality of a round and the overall game experience?" and of course "is this player acting with bad intentions?".

There are some relevant aspects of the round and event itself that should be factored in as well:

1) It was a lowpop round where people were visibly bored and seemed very willing to engage in the "game of chance". I asked who wanted to play a game of chance, several people stayed around to watch. I took out the cubes and even made it very clear that one option would probably kill them and the other would be harmless, the people continued to engage and watch this game, indicating that they were enjoying it.

2) These cubes are as easily accessible as a random crowbar or oxygen tank, and are a default map spawn. If someone wanted to use these cubes to stir chaos like they did here, my involvement would not have made any difference, which is evidenced by the fact that someone seems to spawn the gorilla almost every single birdshot round I'm in anyways. This is relevant not only to this specific appeal but also to any future similar appeals, because a player is normally not going to be thinking much about a default spawn item anyone can instantly grab. What's the point of this item if it can't even be used for a gimmick to entertain people?

3) Both of us participating in the gimmick were nonantags, yet despite the other person being the one to intentionally create the gorilla, I’m the one that gets banned for the grief it caused. this factor is also oddly reminiscent of my last ban from you and is honestly making these bans feel rather biased. it is also strange that the person actively ensuring that the gorilla gets released is assumed to have better intentions than someone who is visibly trying to entertain people.
as evidenced in the attack logs (https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt):

Spoiler:

[2023-11-28 14:24:58.156] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/water (1u, 1 purity)) from the fire extinguisher to [water] (Starboard Primary Hallway (109,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:24:58.157] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/water (1u, 1 purity)) from the fire extinguisher to [water] (Starboard Primary Hallway (109,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:24:58.221] ATTACK: *no key*/(bee) spawned via the monkey cube, Last attached mob: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man). (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:24:58.405] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) spawned via the monkey cube, Last attached mob: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man). (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,124,2))

Now to go back to the basic questions of a ban, did I worsen the quality of the round? No, people were being visibly entertained, if they wanted nothing to do with it they would not have engaged in the game in the first place and any onlookers would have ran away when they saw the cube instead of just stare if they were not entertained, never was I under the impression that the people around me weren't enjoying it. The people who died ended up being revived, meaning there was no irreparable damage done if these people wanted to continue the round after the game which I tried to host got sabotaged.

As for my intentions, while something like this is generally less clear, I can still bring up some points that prove that my intentions were not malicious. Firstly, if I had actual intentions of griefing with the cube I would just wordlessly activate it in the largest crowd I could find and as quickly as possible. This was obviously not the case here, considering I interacted with people, made it clear what they were getting into, and asked if they wanted to be a part of it. People were visibly bored, so I made a "game of chance" so that we could have something fun to do instead of just sit around in departments, not talking or doing really anything. I was always under the impression that everyone was having fun.

I just don't think it's fair to ban someone for "grief" when they were going out of their way to talk to people and make things interesting and fun. I had been doing the complete opposite of the very definition of grief; "deliberately annoying other players", as this had been a genuine attempt at doing something interesting in the round. I don't see how this ban follows the purpose of moderation and rules, which is meant to improve the overall game quality in order to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible. The fact that I got banned when another non-antagonist intentionally sabotaged the game in order to cause chaos just makes it even less fair, especially since my intentions were clearly not bad unlike theirs.

[iansdoor]

Howdy, I'll make this quick. You were a non-antag assistant that let loose a gorrilla that killed 7. One death of theirs is one day ban for you.

Line 273: [2023-11-28 14:24:58.405] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) spawned via the monkey cube, Last attached mob: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man). (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,124,2))

Here are the attack logs that lead to the 7 dying

► Show Spoiler

Line 274: [2023-11-28 14:24:59.207] ATTACK: *no key*/(bee) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) (NEWHP: 220) (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
Line 275: [2023-11-28 14:24:59.451] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked *no key*/(bee) (NEWHP: 10) (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,124,2))
Line 278: [2023-11-28 14:25:01.660] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Mooster123/(Mordecai Cox) (NEWHP: 100) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,125,2))
Line 280: [2023-11-28 14:25:02.734] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Mooster123/(Mordecai Cox) (NEWHP: 85) (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 285: [2023-11-28 14:25:03.671] ATTACK: StarrmanN/(Wilhelm Von Clausewitz) shoved *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with failing to move it (NEWHP: 219) (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,125,2))
Line 286: [2023-11-28 14:25:03.814] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Mooster123/(Mordecai Cox) (NEWHP: 41.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,126,2))
Line 287: [2023-11-28 14:25:04.731] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Mooster123/(Mordecai Cox) (NEWHP: 25.9) (Starboard Primary Hallway (109,126,2))
Line 288: [2023-11-28 14:25:05.571] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Mooster123/(Mordecai Cox) (NEWHP: 8.9) (Starboard Primary Hallway (108,126,2))
Line 293: [2023-11-28 14:25:08.697] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Elisha 13/(Minins-The-Ore) (NEWHP: 74.1) (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 294: [2023-11-28 14:25:09.502] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Elisha 13/(Minins-The-Ore) (NEWHP: 56.2) (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,125,2))
Line 299: [2023-11-28 14:25:10.340] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Elisha 13/(Minins-The-Ore) (NEWHP: 11.9) (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,125,2))
Line 301: [2023-11-28 14:25:15.276] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Elisha 13/(Minins-The-Ore) (NEWHP: -18.5) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,126,2))
Line 302: [2023-11-28 14:25:20.583] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 95) (Medbay Lobby (115,120,2))
Line 303: [2023-11-28 14:25:21.392] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 80) (Medbay Lobby (115,120,2))
Line 304: [2023-11-28 14:25:22.244] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 62) (Medbay Lobby (116,121,2))
Line 305: [2023-11-28 14:25:24.016] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 45) (Medbay Lobby (116,120,2))
Line 306: [2023-11-28 14:25:24.923] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 29) (Medbay Lobby (115,121,2))
Line 307: [2023-11-28 14:25:26.060] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 14) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,125,2))
Line 313: [2023-11-28 14:25:40.719] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked StarrmanN/(Wilhelm Von Clausewitz) (NEWHP: 100) (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,124,2))
Line 320: [2023-11-28 14:25:46.517] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked StarrmanN/(Wilhelm Von Clausewitz) (NEWHP: 83) (Starboard Primary Hallway (142,126,2))
Line 325: [2023-11-28 14:25:53.631] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 198) (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,125,2))
Line 327: [2023-11-28 14:25:55.891] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 183) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (98,126,2))
Line 328: [2023-11-28 14:25:57.485] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 168) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (87,126,2))
Line 331: [2023-11-28 14:25:58.409] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 153) (Port Primary Hallway (81,126,2))
Line 333: [2023-11-28 14:25:59.611] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 138) (Port Primary Hallway (73,126,2))
Line 334: [2023-11-28 14:26:01.359] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 123) (Port Primary Hallway (62,126,2))
Line 337: [2023-11-28 14:26:02.662] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 108) (Port Primary Hallway (53,126,2))
Line 338: [2023-11-28 14:26:03.381] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked StarrmanN/(Wilhelm Von Clausewitz) (NEWHP: 68) (Port Primary Hallway (48,125,2))
Line 339: [2023-11-28 14:26:04.282] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked StarrmanN/(Wilhelm Von Clausewitz) (NEWHP: 51) (Port Primary Hallway (48,125,2))
Line 340: [2023-11-28 14:26:04.613] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 93) (Port Primary Hallway (47,125,2))
Line 341: [2023-11-28 14:26:05.081] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked StarrmanN/(Wilhelm Von Clausewitz) (NEWHP: 10) (Port Primary Hallway (47,124,2))
Line 342: [2023-11-28 14:26:05.691] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 78) (Port Primary Hallway (47,125,2))
Line 343: [2023-11-28 14:26:06.474] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 63) (Port Primary Hallway (46,125,2))
Line 345: [2023-11-28 14:26:07.299] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 45) (Departure Lounge (45,125,2))
Line 348: [2023-11-28 14:26:08.188] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) attacked *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with curator's whip (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 30) (Port Primary Hallway (47,125,2))
Line 352: [2023-11-28 14:26:08.857] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 100) (Port Primary Hallway (46,124,2))
Line 356: [2023-11-28 14:26:10.220] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 86.5) (Port Primary Hallway (49,125,2))
Line 359: [2023-11-28 14:26:11.101] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 75.2) (Port Primary Hallway (49,125,2))
Line 362: [2023-11-28 14:26:12.256] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 61.7) (Port Primary Hallway (50,125,2))
Line 364: [2023-11-28 14:26:13.061] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 49.7) (Port Primary Hallway (52,125,2))
Line 370: [2023-11-28 14:26:15.369] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 36.2) (Port Primary Hallway (61,125,2))
Line 376: [2023-11-28 14:26:16.916] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 24.2) (Port Primary Hallway (68,125,2))
Line 379: [2023-11-28 14:26:19.118] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 11.4) (Port Primary Hallway (78,124,2))
Line 458: [2023-11-28 14:27:32.759] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (91,127,2))
Line 460: [2023-11-28 14:27:33.714] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) (NEWHP: 83) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (91,127,2))
Line 461: [2023-11-28 14:27:34.503] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) (NEWHP: 68) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (91,127,2))
Line 462: [2023-11-28 14:27:35.318] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) (NEWHP: 51) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (89,127,2))
Line 465: [2023-11-28 14:27:36.156] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) (NEWHP: 36) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (88,127,2))
Line 466: [2023-11-28 14:27:36.969] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) (NEWHP: 21) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (87,127,2))
Line 483: [2023-11-28 14:27:56.162] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Bombo-omb/(Kate Lanthanum) (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (87,126,2))
Line 487: [2023-11-28 14:27:59.526] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Bombo-omb/(Kate Lanthanum) (NEWHP: 85) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (99,126,2))
Line 488: [2023-11-28 14:28:00.321] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Bombo-omb/(Kate Lanthanum) (NEWHP: 67) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (102,126,2))
Line 490: [2023-11-28 14:28:01.240] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) attacked Bombo-omb/(Kate Lanthanum) (NEWHP: 17.2) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (102,126,2))

[Lizardistaken]

Howdy, I'll make this quick. You were a non-antag assistant that let loose a gorrilla that killed 7. One death of theirs is one day ban for you.

The logs say I was the last attached mob to the monkey cube because I was the one who held the cube last, but the other person extinguishing it intentionally released the gorilla, so you are just patently wrong that I "let loose the gorilla".

I'm not sure how i'm supposed to appeal if you're not willing to engage in the discussion, you haven't responded to a single point I've made.

[iansdoor]

The logs say I was the last attached mob to the monkey cube because I was the one who held the cube last, but the other person extinguishing it intentionally released the gorilla, so you are just patently wrong that I "let loose the gorilla".

You did the deed and brought "pair of monkey cubes" to medical lobby area, even trying to get someone else to do you own dirty work. At the end of the interaction, The deaths and this ban is on you for introducing that elemental that griefed 7 other people. There really isn't much else to this.

Line 822: [2023-11-28 14:24:41.471] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "the other is" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 832: [2023-11-28 14:24:46.786] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "probably going to kill you" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))

This turned into 6 other folks.

Your chat logs about game of chance to get the crew of the station.

► Show Spoiler

Line 770: [2023-11-28 14:24:24.685] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "who wants" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 773: [2023-11-28 14:24:25.800] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "to play" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 777: [2023-11-28 14:24:27.025] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "a game of" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 782: [2023-11-28 14:24:28.106] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "chance" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 800: [2023-11-28 14:24:35.111] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i have" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 806: [2023-11-28 14:24:36.854] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "two cubes" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 810: [2023-11-28 14:24:38.409] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "one is" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 815: [2023-11-28 14:24:39.815] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "normal" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 822: [2023-11-28 14:24:41.471] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "the other is" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 832: [2023-11-28 14:24:46.786] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "probably going to kill you" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 841: [2023-11-28 14:24:48.974] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "you choose" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
Line 845: [2023-11-28 14:24:50.141] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(Blarpo) blehs the tongue. (The Lizard's Gas (126,102,10))
Line 852: [2023-11-28 14:24:51.881] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "which one i activate" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
Line 869: [2023-11-28 14:24:57.292] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i dont know hwich one" (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,125,2))
Line 876: [2023-11-28 14:24:59.995] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the floor (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))
Line 877: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.172] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at ��Starboard Primary Hallway omni air vent pAblw (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,124,2))
Line 879: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.344] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at Wilhelm Von Clausewitz (Starboard Primary Hallway (116,123,2))
Line 883: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.526] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the �AI display (Starboard Primary Hallway (117,123,2))
Line 884: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.651] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the �AI display (Starboard Primary Hallway (117,123,2))
Line 930: [2023-11-28 14:25:16.129] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) points at the lizard right leg (Starboard Primary Hallway (108,124,2))
Line 941: [2023-11-28 14:25:19.627] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "eeeeerm... you ruined my game of chance...." (Starboard Primary Hallway (146,125,2))

[Lizardistaken]

You did the deed and brought "pair of monkey cubes" to medical lobby area, even trying to get someone else to do you own dirty work. At the end of the interaction, The deaths and this ban is on you for introducing that elemental that griefed 7 other people. There really isn't much else to this.

Line 822: [2023-11-28 14:24:41.471] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "the other is" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 832: [2023-11-28 14:24:46.786] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "probably going to kill you" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))

This turned into 6 other folks.

All you are doing is throwing around wild accusations here, how was this "trying to get someone else to do my own dirty work"? The logs themselves show me trying to create a fun game, I warned the person in question that it was deadly but I also knew that the observers were all regular players who have seen the gorilla cube before (I say this from my experiences in past birdshot rounds with them), they could have easily left at any moment if they weren't enjoying the show. no one who got killed was some unlucky random who had no clue about what was happening, everyone had been watching while knowing what the possible dangers were.

Your chat logs about game of chance to get the crew of the station.

And yet another assumption; How was this "getting the crew off the station"? When people want to get the crew off a station, they tend to delam the SM or bomb the station, they don't unleash a singular gorilla. As previously mentioned I was trying to entertain people with a game, not ruin a round (which continued for a while after, showing that this didn't even lead to any irreparable damage. the fact that everyone was getting healed also shows this, which I already mentioned). The logs you posted even show me saying my game got ruined after the non-antagonist sabotaged it, doesn't this literally prove that I didn't want him to suddenly spawn a gorilla? And why would you not direct your focus towards the person with actual bad intentions when they specifically guaranteed a gorilla spawn for the sole reason of causing chaos?

You can't just make assumptions out of thin air, which you appear to be forming a pattern of doing considering you've also banned me for something someone else did before (link for reference viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35290) and appear to have in both of these situations to have been just immediately jumping at me with random accusations.

Also, you still haven't actually addressed anything I've written in the main appeal post, and instead keep repeating the ban reason. these replies just feel really low effort.

[iansdoor]

All you are doing is throwing around wild accusations here, how was this "trying to get someone else to do my own dirty work"? The logs themselves show me trying to create a fun game, I warned the person in question that it was deadly but I also knew that the observers were all regular players who have seen the gorilla cube before (I say this from my experiences in past birdshot rounds with them), they could have easily left at any moment if they weren't enjoying the show. no one who got killed was some unlucky random who had no clue about what was happening, everyone had been watching while knowing what the possible dangers were.

Also, you still haven't actually addressed anything I've written in the main appeal post, and instead keep repeating the ban reason. these replies just feel really low effort.

There is a PR to remove the possibility of this cube appearing again. I was watching folks walk towards security and get delimbed and die to the 20 health gorilla as some of them just got off the shuttle. I am going to deny this.

[Lizardistaken]

There is a PR to remove the possibility of this cube appearing again. I was watching folks walk towards security and get delimbed and die to the 20 health gorilla as some of them just got off the shuttle. I am going to deny this.

I looked up the ckeys of the people from the attack logs in the game logs, only one of them, Bombo-omb, had joined the round after the gorilla was spawned. While I was not aware of this person, even they did end up getting revived, so again this was not the round-ending threat you are making it out to be. I was not even aware the gorilla was still alive at the time of this happening. And yeah the cube obviously shouldn't be so easily accessible so the PR is no surprise. I basically just moved a default map item that spawns in an extremely public area to another public area, where it then got activated by someone who was not me (and again, not an antag) and was blatantly trying to stir chaos. Normally a player wouldn't be expecting a ban and to be accused of griefing in this scenario.

It's also worth noting that it's a lot more difficult to react quickly when something unexpected happens, which in this case was someone randomly activating all the cubes. The original intention was to kill the gorilla off as it spawned if the person happened to pick the dangerous cube (which may not even have happened if the game itself didn't get ruined), but it is a bit difficult to properly prepare when the thing gets spawned before it's even intended to. I don't think anyone in general was expecting this guy to randomly activate both cubes out of nowhere, which basically guaranteed a disaster that didn't have to happen even if the player had picked the gorilla cube as I'm pretty sure that reaction time would have been much quicker for everyone involved. Interestingly enough, the same person puts the blame on me for it when asked where the gorilla came from.

[2023-11-28 14:27:21.471] GAME-SAY: Iansdoor/(Vents-Hot-Air) (DEAD) "where did the gorrila come from?" (Lesser Starboard Maintenance (149,135,2))
[2023-11-28 14:27:26.043] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "lizard man" (Space Bridge (102,119,2))

This just gives me the impression that the situation was barely investigated, before placing the ban, especially since the ticket itself got cut off short during an ongoing round before I even got to finish writing my reply or go any more in-depth into anything. I figured this was because forums were more ideal for discussion but you haven't even made the smallest attempt to discuss anything on here as well. I thought appeal threads were meant to be the place for this, so I'm not sure why there has been no engagement. I'd have really liked to have had a healthy discussion.

I'm just requesting a headmin review.

[iansdoor]

Headmin have been notified and I'll drop the last of the few logs.
You mention and blame Sandwich Sam without really putting on the logs out there.

Sam was simply not aware of what you had in those cubes and he at least tries to recover limbs for the bodies from his mistake till you show back up and distract them.

Line 1143: [2023-11-28 14:26:19.612] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "HES TOO STRONG!!" (Port Primary Hallway (73,125,2))
Line 1346: [2023-11-28 14:27:26.043] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "lizard man" (Space Bridge (102,119,2))
Line 1371: [2023-11-28 14:27:32.893] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "had a bee and a gorilla cube" (Medbay Lobby (113,118,2))
Line 1413: [2023-11-28 14:27:46.850] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "didnt even know those existed" (Medbay Treatment Center (108,104,2))
Line 1420: [2023-11-28 14:27:49.785] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "right here" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (90,126,2))
Line 1440: [2023-11-28 14:27:58.428] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "anotha one bites the dust" (Kitchen (88,128,2))
Line 2174: [2023-11-28 14:32:03.330] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "get me limbs on I'll help revive people" (Medbay Treatment Center (106,102,2)

Game logs of Sandwich Sam the clown

► Show Spoiler

Line 856: [2023-11-28 14:24:52.486] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "Cubes" (Starboard Primary Hallway (109,125,2))
Line 900: [2023-11-28 14:25:06.350] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "cube cube cube" (Space Bridge (108,122,2))
Line 930: [2023-11-28 14:25:16.129] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) points at the lizard right leg (Starboard Primary Hallway (108,124,2))
Line 991: [2023-11-28 14:25:33.210] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,127,2))
Line 994: [2023-11-28 14:25:33.580] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
Line 995: [2023-11-28 14:25:33.600] GAME: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) Client Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) has taken ownership of mob Sandwich Sam(/mob/dead/observer) (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,127,2))
Line 997: [2023-11-28 14:25:35.072] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "oh no" (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,125,2))
Line 1001: [2023-11-28 14:25:36.563] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "OH NO!!!!!!!" (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,125,2))
Line 1039: [2023-11-28 14:25:46.644] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "gorilla on the loose" (Starboard Primary Hallway (141,125,2))
Line 1143: [2023-11-28 14:26:19.612] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "HES TOO STRONG!!" (Port Primary Hallway (73,125,2))
Line 1346: [2023-11-28 14:27:26.043] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "lizard man" (Space Bridge (102,119,2))
Line 1371: [2023-11-28 14:27:32.893] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "had a bee and a gorilla cube" (Medbay Lobby (113,118,2))
Line 1413: [2023-11-28 14:27:46.850] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "didnt even know those existed" (Medbay Treatment Center (108,104,2))
Line 1420: [2023-11-28 14:27:49.785] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "right here" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (90,126,2))
Line 1440: [2023-11-28 14:27:58.428] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "anotha one bites the dust" (Kitchen (88,128,2))
Line 1481: [2023-11-28 14:28:09.246] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "oogas fr" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (102,126,2))
Line 1766: [2023-11-28 14:29:40.832] GAME: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) was fireman carried by Mark Oztan. (Medbay Treatment Center (106,102,2))
Line 1773: [2023-11-28 14:29:43.163] GAME-WHISPER: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "muh geh wahwahu" (Medbay Treatment Center (108,102,2))
Line 1788: [2023-11-28 14:29:48.923] GAME-WHISPER: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "Muh ARM!!" (Cryogenics (108,113,2))
Line 1792: [2023-11-28 14:29:50.338] GAME: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) is no longer riding Mark Oztan. (Cryogenics (108,114,2))
Line 1802: [2023-11-28 14:29:53.065] GAME-WHISPER: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "MUH REG!!" (Cryogenics (108,113,2))
Line 2023: [2023-11-28 14:31:09.515] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) snores. (Cryogenics (108,114,2))
Line 2174: [2023-11-28 14:32:03.330] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "get me limbs on I'll help revive people" (Medbay Treatment Center (106,102,2))

Attack logs of Sandwich Sam

Line 1086: [2023-11-28 14:34:04.142] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 83.8) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 1114: [2023-11-28 14:34:32.704] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) has thrown the human left arm (Medbay Lobby (115,113,2))
Line 1185: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.531] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) fired at [floor] with the foam dart from Science Lobby (Science Lobby (160,113,2))

► Show Spoiler

Line 861: [2023-11-28 14:32:23.711] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) suffered: Rough Abrasion to chest | Damage: 10 (rolled 7/25.1189) | WB: 10 | BWB: 15 (Medbay Treatment Center (106,102,2))
Line 862: [2023-11-28 14:32:23.716] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with scalpel (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88.8) (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 906: [2023-11-28 14:32:50.794] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) operated on Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (OPERATION TYPE: Prosthetic replacement) (TARGET AREA: r_leg) (NEWHP: 80.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 950: [2023-11-28 14:33:12.607] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) shaken Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 80.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 963: [2023-11-28 14:33:18.248] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) grabbed *no key*/(Kate Lanthanum) passive grab (NEWHP: -100) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 980: [2023-11-28 14:33:21.345] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with human right leg (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 77.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 989: [2023-11-28 14:33:23.474] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) is stripping Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) of the clown suit. (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 1004: [2023-11-28 14:33:27.822] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with human right leg (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 74.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 1008: [2023-11-28 14:33:29.685] ATTACK: Zbijacz/(Mark Oztan) attacked Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with human right leg (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 71.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (106,101,2))
Line 1078: [2023-11-28 14:33:59.305] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 47.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 1079: [2023-11-28 14:34:00.507] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 57.1) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 1080: [2023-11-28 14:34:01.708] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 65.4) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 1085: [2023-11-28 14:34:02.927] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 75.4) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 1086: [2023-11-28 14:34:04.142] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 83.8) (Medbay Treatment Center (107,102,2))
Line 1114: [2023-11-28 14:34:32.704] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) has thrown the human left arm (Medbay Lobby (115,113,2))
Line 1185: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.531] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) fired at [floor] with the foam dart from Science Lobby (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1187: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.682] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) fired at [floor] with the foam dart from Science Lobby (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1188: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.738] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1189: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.885] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) fired at [floor] with the foam dart from Science Lobby (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1190: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.891] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1191: [2023-11-28 14:35:31.084] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,113,2))

Lets take a look from your angle. Two minutes into a round, you dash and grab those cubes to start your little gimmick in medical public area. The clown plays your game and was utterly surprised and died. You ran bravely away and then tided some more into science lobby. I don't understand your definition of "because i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on" as 7 people were delimbed and murdered by your grief.

Line 2020: [2023-11-28 14:31:08.578] GAME-OOC: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "do mapvote first" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 2039: [2023-11-28 14:31:15.874] GAME-OOC: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "so its not birdshot again" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))

Game logs of yourself.

Line 770: [2023-11-28 14:24:24.685] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "who wants" "to play" "a game of" "chance" "i have" "two cubes" "one is" "normal""the other is" ("probably going to kill you" "you choose" "which one i activate" "i dont know hwich one" (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,125,2))

► Show Spoiler

Line 770: [2023-11-28 14:24:24.685] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "who wants" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 773: [2023-11-28 14:24:25.800] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "to play" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 777: [2023-11-28 14:24:27.025] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "a game of" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 782: [2023-11-28 14:24:28.106] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "chance" (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,126,2))
Line 800: [2023-11-28 14:24:35.111] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i have" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 806: [2023-11-28 14:24:36.854] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "two cubes" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 810: [2023-11-28 14:24:38.409] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "one is" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 815: [2023-11-28 14:24:39.815] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "normal" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 822: [2023-11-28 14:24:41.471] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "the other is" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 832: [2023-11-28 14:24:46.786] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "probably going to kill you" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,125,2))
Line 841: [2023-11-28 14:24:48.974] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "you choose" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
Line 852: [2023-11-28 14:24:51.881] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "which one i activate" (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
Line 869: [2023-11-28 14:24:57.292] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i dont know hwich one" (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,125,2))
Line 876: [2023-11-28 14:24:59.995] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the floor (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))
Line 877: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.172] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at ��Starboard Primary Hallway omni air vent pAblw (Starboard Primary Hallway (115,124,2))
Line 879: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.344] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at Wilhelm Von Clausewitz (Starboard Primary Hallway (116,123,2))
Line 883: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.526] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the �AI display (Starboard Primary Hallway (117,123,2))
Line 884: [2023-11-28 14:25:00.651] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the �AI display (Starboard Primary Hallway (117,123,2))
Line 941: [2023-11-28 14:25:19.627] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "eeeeerm... you ruined my game of chance...." (Starboard Primary Hallway (146,125,2))
Line 1015: [2023-11-28 14:25:40.552] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "is he ok" (Starboard Primary Hallway (125,125,2))
Line 1109: [2023-11-28 14:26:09.947] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "how could this happen??????" (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,127,2))
Line 1211: [2023-11-28 14:26:40.523] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "hey wilhem" (Starboard Primary Hallway (137,126,2))
Line 1228: [2023-11-28 14:26:47.241] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "where are you" (Starboard Primary Hallway (158,125,2))
Line 1516: [2023-11-28 14:28:17.222] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i think the gorilla got wilhelm" (Medbay Lobby (119,115,2))
Line 1599: [2023-11-28 14:28:43.573] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "non nononono" (Port Primary Hallway (67,125,2))
Line 1856: [2023-11-28 14:30:06.860] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i dont like monkeys" (Starboard Primary Hallway (157,126,2))
Line 1863: [2023-11-28 14:30:10.746] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at James Wilson (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 1870: [2023-11-28 14:30:13.408] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "say that to my face" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 1873: [2023-11-28 14:30:15.090] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "bitch..." (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 1879: [2023-11-28 14:30:15.877] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at James Wilson (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 1884: [2023-11-28 14:30:17.219] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) points at the floor (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 1892: [2023-11-28 14:30:20.730] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "OPEN UP" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))Line 2294: [2023-11-28 14:32:39.803] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "I NEED ONE FLASH SIR" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 2354: [2023-11-28 14:32:56.603] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "ONE FLASH THANK YOU SIR" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 2541: [2023-11-28 14:33:54.532] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) ring ring ring (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2553: [2023-11-28 14:33:57.456] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) ring ring ring (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2562: [2023-11-28 14:34:01.011] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "HELLLOOOOO" (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2575: [2023-11-28 14:34:05.045] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) RING RING (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2579: [2023-11-28 14:34:06.099] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) RING (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2587: [2023-11-28 14:34:08.846] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "HELLO????????????????" (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2615: [2023-11-28 14:34:17.016] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "ANYONE THERE????????" (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2625: [2023-11-28 14:34:19.098] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) RING RING (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2637: [2023-11-28 14:34:21.931] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) RING (Research Division (169,133,2))
Line 2656: [2023-11-28 14:34:28.746] GAME-SAY: *no key*/(�Medibot) "Wait Lizard-Man! I want to help!" (Starboard Primary Hallway (151,125,2))
Line 2718: [2023-11-28 14:34:54.190] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) points at Lizard-Man (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,126,2))
Line 2752: [2023-11-28 14:35:03.808] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) points at Lizard-Man (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,126,2))
Line 2756: [2023-11-28 14:35:04.276] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) points at Lizard-Man (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,126,2))
Line 2766: [2023-11-28 14:35:07.432] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "ok" (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 2979: [2023-11-28 14:36:11.598] GAME-EMOTE: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) tbags (Science Lobby (161,114,2))

Attack logs of a lizard-man bravely running away, to tide in another area as you are...

Line 1599: [2023-11-28 14:28:43.573] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "non nononono" (Port Primary Hallway (67,125,2))
Line 1856: [2023-11-28 14:30:06.860] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i dont like monkeys" (Starboard Primary Hallway (157,126,2))

► Show Spoiler

Line 272: [2023-11-28 14:24:58.221] ATTACK: *no key*/(bee) spawned via the monkey cube, Last attached mob: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man). (Starboard Primary Hallway (110,124,2))
Line 273: [2023-11-28 14:24:58.405] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) spawned via the monkey cube, Last attached mob: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man). (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,124,2))
Line 482: [2023-11-28 14:27:54.553] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) climbed onto [table] (Medbay Lobby (117,115,2))
Line 521: [2023-11-28 14:28:27.593] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) climbed onto [table] (Medbay Lobby (118,117,2))
Line 584: [2023-11-28 14:29:26.459] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) climbed onto [table] (Medbay Lobby (118,117,2))
Line 598: [2023-11-28 14:29:42.185] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) climbed onto [table] (Medbay Lobby (119,117,2))
Line 784: [2023-11-28 14:31:46.586] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 788: [2023-11-28 14:31:47.385] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 791: [2023-11-28 14:31:48.348] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 798: [2023-11-28 14:31:51.599] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 799: [2023-11-28 14:31:52.461] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 806: [2023-11-28 14:31:54.729] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 808: [2023-11-28 14:31:55.640] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 854: [2023-11-28 14:32:16.931] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 856: [2023-11-28 14:32:17.984] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 858: [2023-11-28 14:32:21.199] ATTACK: Selkad tubbie/(Jack Osvonskiy) shoved DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with onto the reinforced table (table) (NEWHP: 100) (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,126,2))
Line 865: [2023-11-28 14:32:25.258] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 866: [2023-11-28 14:32:26.069] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 868: [2023-11-28 14:32:27.019] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 870: [2023-11-28 14:32:27.945] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 871: [2023-11-28 14:32:28.888] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 875: [2023-11-28 14:32:33.091] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [Research Lab Desk] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 880: [2023-11-28 14:32:38.044] ATTACK: CYCS/(James Wilson) threw and hit DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the shard (NEWHP: 92.5) (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 886: [2023-11-28 14:32:40.261] ATTACK: CYCS/(James Wilson) threw and hit DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the shard (NEWHP: 82.5) (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 889: [2023-11-28 14:32:43.885] ATTACK: CYCS/(James Wilson) threw and hit DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the shard (NEWHP: 72.5) (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 890: [2023-11-28 14:32:43.888] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) suffered: Rough Abrasion to right arm | Damage: 10 (rolled 21/25.1189) (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 900: [2023-11-28 14:32:49.866] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attempted to inject DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: 65.4) (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 901: [2023-11-28 14:32:49.869] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/epinephrine (10u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/toxin/formaldehyde (3u, 0.75 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/coagulant (2u, 1 purity)) from the epinephrine medipen to DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) (NEWHP: 65.4) (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 902: [2023-11-28 14:32:49.870] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) injected DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: 65.4) (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 919: [2023-11-28 14:32:58.713] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 920: [2023-11-28 14:32:59.514] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 924: [2023-11-28 14:33:00.392] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 925: [2023-11-28 14:33:01.386] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 927: [2023-11-28 14:33:02.290] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 929: [2023-11-28 14:33:03.171] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 933: [2023-11-28 14:33:04.186] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 942: [2023-11-28 14:33:09.064] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 944: [2023-11-28 14:33:09.909] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 945: [2023-11-28 14:33:10.708] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 948: [2023-11-28 14:33:11.574] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 949: [2023-11-28 14:33:12.384] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 952: [2023-11-28 14:33:13.286] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 960: [2023-11-28 14:33:17.694] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 964: [2023-11-28 14:33:18.649] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 972: [2023-11-28 14:33:19.487] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 978: [2023-11-28 14:33:20.943] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 994: [2023-11-28 14:33:24.968] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [reinforced table] with the fire extinguisher (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 1024: [2023-11-28 14:33:34.145] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (157,129,2))
Line 1027: [2023-11-28 14:33:34.963] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (157,129,2))
Line 1033: [2023-11-28 14:33:36.265] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (157,129,2))
Line 1040: [2023-11-28 14:33:38.022] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (157,129,2))
Line 1046: [2023-11-28 14:33:40.447] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 1050: [2023-11-28 14:33:41.218] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 1053: [2023-11-28 14:33:42.121] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 1056: [2023-11-28 14:33:43.022] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) attacked [table frame] with the fire extinguisher (Research and Development (156,129,2))
Line 1120: [2023-11-28 14:34:40.975] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 67.5) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1122: [2023-11-28 14:34:42.992] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 69.4) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1125: [2023-11-28 14:34:45.000] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 71.9) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1127: [2023-11-28 14:34:47.008] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 73.7) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1129: [2023-11-28 14:34:49.088] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 75.6) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1132: [2023-11-28 14:34:51.230] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 77.5) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1136: [2023-11-28 14:34:53.238] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 79.4) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1140: [2023-11-28 14:34:55.241] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 81.2) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1143: [2023-11-28 14:34:57.249] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 83.7) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1147: [2023-11-28 14:34:59.321] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 86.2) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1153: [2023-11-28 14:35:01.326] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88.7) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1158: [2023-11-28 14:35:03.333] ATTACK: *no key*/(�Medibot) tended the wounds of DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with internal tools (BRUTE) (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,124,2))
Line 1173: [2023-11-28 14:35:26.679] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) climbed onto [reinforced table] (Robotics Lab (164,113,2))
Line 1188: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.738] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1190: [2023-11-28 14:35:30.891] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,113,2))
Line 1191: [2023-11-28 14:35:31.084] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,113,2))

Our ticket together. I am sorry I am still learning. When I do filters and searches that I didn't catch your OOC logs about "Why you did that gimmick". I stated them your ooc log above.

i started "a game of chance" because i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on, though i didn't activate the cubes, someone activated both of them and i didn't get to see who. that aside, if this item is such a big issue and has apparently no way of being used outside of antag purposes why does it even have a guaranteed spawn in a public tool storage in the first place?
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:43:40

► Show Spoiler

howdy there, Why did you release a gorilla cube as a non-antag?
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:39:32
well, technically, i was not the one to use an extinguisher on it
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:40:16
Technically, you found it and played a game of chance with someone? So why did you release the information that there could be a possiblity of a 50/50 of a gorrila cube that maimed and killed 7 folks?
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:41:04
i started "a game of chance" because i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on, though i didn't activate the cubes, someone activated both of them and i didn't get to see who. that aside, if this item is such a big issue and has apparently no way of being used outside of antag purposes why does it even have a guaranteed spawn in a public tool storage in the first place?
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:43:40
okay, That is still on you for releasing those cubes that you as the non-antag started.
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:45:28
if an item is so easily accessible to every single person and role, and is literally a part of the map itself, someone would normally not expect that there is no tolerance for using it. did anyone actually complain about this by the way?
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:47:39
in the meantime, please make a map issue about the cubes and not use them as a non-antag?
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:48:57
Client disconnected
➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:51:41
Iansdoor/(Vents-Hot-Air) has created a temporary 7 days server ban for DaliIsTaken.
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:51:41
Resolved by Iansdoor
iansdoor ➡ Admins

[Lizardistaken]

You mention and blame Sandwich Sam without really putting on the logs out there.

Sam was simply not aware of what you had in those cubes and he at least tries to recover limbs for the bodies from his mistake till you show back up and distract them.

Line 1143: [2023-11-28 14:26:19.612] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "HES TOO STRONG!!" (Port Primary Hallway (73,125,2))
Line 1346: [2023-11-28 14:27:26.043] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "lizard man" (Space Bridge (102,119,2))
Line 1371: [2023-11-28 14:27:32.893] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "had a bee and a gorilla cube" (Medbay Lobby (113,118,2))
Line 1413: [2023-11-28 14:27:46.850] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "didnt even know those existed" (Medbay Treatment Center (108,104,2))
Line 1420: [2023-11-28 14:27:49.785] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "right here" (Aft Central Primary Hallway (90,126,2))
Line 1440: [2023-11-28 14:27:58.428] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (DEAD) "anotha one bites the dust" (Kitchen (88,128,2))
Line 2174: [2023-11-28 14:32:03.330] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "get me limbs on I'll help revive people" (Medbay Treatment Center (106,102,2)

I did not see the latter parts of his saylogs. I believe him then, but I'm not sure why he would randomly activate the cubes if he wasn't aware of what was in them though. I mentioned him because I have been trying to say that I was not prepared for what he did and that it felt a little bit malicious. It just turned the whole thing into an "oh shit" moment instead. I was also just overall pretty disappointed that the game got ruined to be quite honest. Also, I don't know what you mean by "till you show back up and distract them", never did I keep anyone from getting revived.

Lets take a look from your angle. Two minutes into a round, you dash and grab those cubes to start your little gimmick in medical public area. The clown plays your game and was utterly surprised and died. You ran bravely away and then tided some more into science lobby.

I did not dash for the cubes, I went into the tool storage to get tools (something that is normally done early in), and saw the cubes where I was then struck with the idea of hosting a game. The clown did not "play my game", he activated both cubes out of nowhere, he simply sabotaged it (apparently while he was unaware as to what was exactly in the cubes). After this I had in fact been looking for wilhelm for at least a couple of minutes, as he had run away and was probably being attacked. This is evidenced by my radio saylogs:

Spoiler:

[2023-11-28 14:26:40.556] TELECOMMS: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) [Common] (spans: ) "Hey wilhem" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (137,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:26:47.275] TELECOMMS: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) [Common] (spans: ) "Where are you" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (158,125,2))

[2023-11-28 14:28:17.254] TELECOMMS: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) [Common] (spans: ) "I think the gorilla got wilhelm" (language: Galactic Common) (Medbay Lobby (119,115,2))

During the end of which I had to check the crew monitor for his location (though his suit sensors were off), saw that he was dead and alerted the station. He was eventually found by someone else and revived. After this I had completely lost the will to really play at all as I was pretty disappointed with having my genuine attempt at something fun be ruined, especially since genuinely entertaining people is not something I make attempts at doing very often, so yeah you don't really see me doing much in general after this game.

Line 2020: [2023-11-28 14:31:08.578] GAME-OOC: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "do mapvote first" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))
Line 2039: [2023-11-28 14:31:15.874] GAME-OOC: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "so its not birdshot again" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))

These OOC logs were in response to someone starting a map restart vote, to which they responded with

Spoiler:

[2023-11-28 14:31:15.927] GAME-OOC: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) "we re not gonna restart" (Medbay Lobby (117,122,2))
[2023-11-28 14:31:20.050] GAME-OOC: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) "it s about sending a message" (Medbay Lobby (117,122,2))

It doesn't have anything to do with my gimmick, it was a reaction to the vote.

Attack logs of a lizard-man bravely running away, to tide in another area as you are...

Line 1599: [2023-11-28 14:28:43.573] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "non nononono" (Port Primary Hallway (67,125,2))

This was when I was still looking around for wilhelm, and realizing it was still not dead. I think I have previously mentioned this, but the original plan was to attack it as a group as it spawned. Because of the sabotage of the game there was instead an element of surprise, which led to everyone running away in different directions, so I was not given the chance to prepare whatsoever for a coordinated attack. I think you underestimate how much the sudden activation actually ruined the whole plan, but this really did cause a huge difference in how both I and other people reacted in this scenario. Had I been able to do it at my pace, finish talking about the game, etc. without someone sabotaging the whole thing would there not have been any need for a panic as everyone, including myself, would have been properly prepared.

Line 1856: [2023-11-28 14:30:06.860] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i dont like monkeys" (Starboard Primary Hallway (157,126,2))

This was just a radio response to a central command update relating to the gorilla.
[2023-11-28 14:30:06.894] TELECOMMS: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) [Common] (spans: ) "I dont like monkeysss" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (157,126,2))

Our ticket together. I am sorry I am still learning. When I do filters and searches that I didn't catch your OOC logs about "Why you did that gimmick". I stated them your ooc log above.

i started "a game of chance" because i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on, though i didn't activate the cubes, someone activated both of them and i didn't get to see who. that aside, if this item is such a big issue and has apparently no way of being used outside of antag purposes why does it even have a guaranteed spawn in a public tool storage in the first place?
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:43:40

► Show Spoiler

howdy there, Why did you release a gorilla cube as a non-antag?
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:39:32
well, technically, i was not the one to use an extinguisher on it
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:40:16
Technically, you found it and played a game of chance with someone? So why did you release the information that there could be a possiblity of a 50/50 of a gorrila cube that maimed and killed 7 folks?
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:41:04
i started "a game of chance" because i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on, though i didn't activate the cubes, someone activated both of them and i didn't get to see who. that aside, if this item is such a big issue and has apparently no way of being used outside of antag purposes why does it even have a guaranteed spawn in a public tool storage in the first place?
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:43:40
okay, That is still on you for releasing those cubes that you as the non-antag started.
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:45:28
if an item is so easily accessible to every single person and role, and is literally a part of the map itself, someone would normally not expect that there is no tolerance for using it. did anyone actually complain about this by the way?
daliistaken ➡ iansdoor
2023-11-28T14:47:39
in the meantime, please make a map issue about the cubes and not use them as a non-antag?
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:48:57
Client disconnected
➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:51:41
Iansdoor/(Vents-Hot-Air) has created a temporary 7 days server ban for DaliIsTaken.
iansdoor ➡ daliistaken
2023-11-28T14:51:41
Resolved by Iansdoor
iansdoor ➡ Admins

I am seeing your main issue with the situation here, but I think there has been a big misunderstanding on both ends. I do wish that you'd have given me the chance to go deeper into my reasoning in the ticket and properly explain myself. I was a bit frustrated during the ticket because after my attempt at something fun ended up getting ruined, I was also being met with a bwoink, so I do not think I made my intentions very clear.

Firstly, I think you are under the impression that I did this because I did not like the map, which is not what I meant at all. When I said:

i started "a game of chance" because i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable for everyone on a map no one actually wants to play on

I did not mean I was trying to end the round. The only reason I brought the map up was because I was trying to say that a lot of people seemed to be bored as I'd seen them complain about the map earlier. They were also just standing around not really doing much during a lowpop round, both of these additional factors were also reinforcing the idea that a lot of people were pretty bored. I think it's also important to look at how exactly I worded things, specifically this part "i'm trying to make the round more enjoyable". I was not saying that I was trying to end the round, I was saying that I was trying to make the round itself more fun. The cube is something that gets spawned almost every time in my experience and often gets killed off pretty quickly, so I did not think of this even having the capability to end a round, for me the gorilla is just a normal part of the station. I do see how this can be interpreted as trying to end the round, but my intentions here were genuinely to just entertain the people in the round. I was going to try to explain this better later on in the ticket, but I do apologize for the early miscommunication, I did not make my intents very clear as I'd just been disappointed and frustrated by the whole chain of events. It's uncommon that I even make this type of effort in the first place, so getting sabotaged and afterwards punished really just put me in a bad mood, which made it more difficult to clearly communicate my thoughts behind this.

[iansdoor]

I did not see the latter parts of his saylogs. I believe him then, but I'm not sure why he would randomly activate the cubes if he wasn't aware of what was in them though. I mentioned him because I have been trying to say that I was not prepared for what he did and that it felt a little bit malicious. It just turned the whole thing into an "oh shit" moment instead. I was also just overall pretty disappointed that the game got ruined to be quite honest. Also, I don't know what you mean by "till you show back up and distract them", never did I keep anyone from getting revived.

I believe you in the "oh shit" moment, but your logs tell me that you ran away from the "oh shit" and went to tide science for a flash? While the Clown, who was surprised by random cubes, went to fix their mistake, attempt to help out and stumbled back into you. Which y'all fought as he pointed out that you were a "harbinger of death". Dali, you have the reputation of just fighting and fighting more, which is distracting. I don't know how you can fix that if I look back to your countless rounds here on TG. There is something to reflect in your playstyle, lizard-man isn't very "fun" to play with. That would be my subjective opinion here.


My three issues with you

First, this fact of you rushing those cubes and placed them in an open traffic area with the intent of bring chaos. Don't say you were doing a "team activity", in 2 minutes span, you winged the gimmick and failed. 7 deaths and at least two delimbs per person is the consequences of your actions and inaction. Please don't try to deny that as that was on you.

Line 425: [2023-11-28 14:22:34.334] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
Line 426: [2023-11-28 14:22:34.350] GAME: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) Client DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) has taken ownership of mob Lizard-Man(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Cafeteria (99,140,2))
Line 273: [2023-11-28 14:24:58.405] ATTACK: *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) spawned via the monkey cube, Last attached mob: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man). (Starboard Primary Hallway (111,124,2))
Line 941: [2023-11-28 14:25:19.627] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "eeeeerm... you ruined my game of chance...." (Starboard Primary Hallway (146,125,2))

Secondly, in your ticket, you pushed the blame on "mapping issue" or that "clown" and that you were not responsibility in any way to the cubes. This is why that ahelp ended shortly. You didn't consider caring for anyone else as all lizard-man did was run away bravely from his mess. You as Lizard-man, were aware of the cubes and aware of what gorillas do. I will agree that there is tons of skill issues going around, but you released the cube at 2:30 minutes into a round. I am sure you are aware that folks late join and wander the halls to get to their jobs and collect tools, only to be met with a gorilla. That gorilla would stun-lock them on a hall wall and delimb them on the spot before moving on to the next person. The gorilla lasted 3 whole minutes and killed 7 people in that short span. Now I consider that your 2:30 rush and the gorilla's 3:00 killing spree resulted in 7 deaths before a round's 6 minutes, by your hands. Do you understand that?

Third and final issue, I don't see a time here that you apologized or acknowledged your fuck-up. I have searched for this and is still missing. We all have fuck ups, that is something we have in common and you here, continued to push any blame on anyone or anything else than yourself. I will believe you had a bad round, placed you in that bad mood but you defaulted to "careless, fighting, tiding" lizard-man. But, you introduced that cube to a public area and fucked off when gorilla got out of hand. Majority of the public wasn't aware of that cube's easy location yet you were able to setup this situation at roundstart.

I may be inclined to reduce this ban to 3 days and tweak the note a tad, if you acknowledge that this was your mistake. I don't hate that you attempted such gimmick, would suggest for you to setup an Arena or an area that isn't in public hallways next time.

[Lizardistaken]

I believe you in the "oh shit" moment, but your logs tell me that you ran away from the "oh shit" and went to tide science for a flash?

I've already explained this:

After this I had in fact been looking for wilhelm for at least a couple of minutes, as he had run away and was probably being attacked.

During the end of which I had to check the crew monitor for his location (though his suit sensors were off), saw that he was dead and alerted the station. He was eventually found by someone else and revived. After this I had completely lost the will to really play at all as I was pretty disappointed with having my genuine attempt at something fun be ruined, especially since genuinely entertaining people is not something I make attempts at doing very often, so yeah you don't really see me doing much in general after this game.

I also didn't know where the gorilla was or if it was still even alive when I was in sci, and had basically given up on putting any effort into the round after I couldn't find Wilhelm out of sheer disappointment. Looks like it got killed on a whole different part of the map, right as I was going into sci, and while I was responding to the centcom gorilla update.

Spoiler:

[2023-11-28 14:30:06.860] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "i dont like monkeys" (Starboard Primary Hallway (157,126,2))

[2023-11-28 14:30:24.834] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "SCI OPEN" (Starboard Primary Hallway (156,127,2))

[2023-11-28 14:30:27.175] ATTACK: BingBong34/(Bradley Howard) shot *no key*/(Gorilla (42)) with the laser (NEWHP: -48) (Space Bridge (99,119,2))

While the Clown, who was surprised by random cubes, went to fix their mistake, attempt to help out and stumbled back into you. Which y'all fought as he pointed out that you were a "harbinger of death".

We didn't "fight", I had no issue with anything he said to me. Me, Ernesto, and the clown had a playful fight, which is not uncommon for any of us to do. It was obviously not an actual fight considering we just kept going for a while and healed each other afterwards.

Just some attack- and say-logs to exemplify, a bit filtered in order to avoid more repetition and clutter. We were all clearly just fooling around here:

Spoiler:

[2023-11-28 14:34:59.024] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "bringer of death" (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:35:01.379] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "harbinger of poop" (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:35:21.453] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "are you prepared" (Starboard Primary Hallway (157,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:35:28.401] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) "prepared to meet god" (Science Lobby (160,116,2))

[2023-11-28 14:35:37.458] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) has thrown the banana peel (Robotics Lab (164,113,2))
[2023-11-28 14:35:37.561] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) threw and hit Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with the banana peel (NEWHP: 61.1) (Robotics Lab (164,113,2))

[2023-11-28 14:36:00.212] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,114,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:00.418] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shot DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with the foam dart (NEWHP: 90.8) (Science Lobby (160,114,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:00.855] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) grabbed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 71.1) (Science Lobby (161,114,2))

[2023-11-28 14:36:51.760] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) grabbed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) passive grab (NEWHP: 71.1) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:52.025] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) grabbed DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) passive grab (NEWHP: 90.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:52.583] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) grabbed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 71.1) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:53.576] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) thrown Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) grab from tile in Starboard Primary Hallway (113,124,2) towards tile at Starboard Primary Hallway (109,125,2) (NEWHP: 71.1) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:58.204] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) grabbed DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) passive grab (NEWHP: 90.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:59.055] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) grabbed DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 90.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:59.898] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) thrown DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) grab from tile in Starboard Primary Hallway (112,126,2) towards tile at Starboard Primary Hallway (112,123,2) (NEWHP: 90.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:36:59.899] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) has thrown Lizard-Man (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:14.840] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) kicked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 42.1) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:16.361] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) kicked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 31.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:17.323] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) kicked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 16.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:18.198] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) kicks DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:18.199] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shoved DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:19.832] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shoved DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))

[2023-11-28 14:37:11.391] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) punched Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 75.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:11.588] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) punched DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:11.591] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) got a stun punch with their previous punch DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:16.361] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) kicked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 31.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (112,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:17.323] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) kicked Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) (NEWHP: 16.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:18.198] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) kicks DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:18.199] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shoved DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,125,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:19.832] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) shoved DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 66.8) (Starboard Primary Hallway

[2023-11-28 14:37:25.379] GAME-WHISPER: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) "has it been more over" (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,123,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:26.939] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "he tripped" (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:29.235] GAME-SAY: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) "and fell on his head" (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))

[2023-11-28 14:38:05.222] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) shoved Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 63.6) (Medbay Central (116,110,2))
[2023-11-28 14:38:14.727] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) kicks Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 63.6) (Medbay Lobby (122,112,2))
[2023-11-28 14:38:14.729] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) shoved Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) (NEWHP: 63.6) (Medbay Lobby (122,112,2))
[2023-11-28 14:38:28.885] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) fired at Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with the disabler beam from Medbay Lobby (NEWHP: -3.9) (Medbay Lobby (115,113,2))
[2023-11-28 14:38:29.083] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) shot Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: -3.9) (Medbay Lobby (115,113,2))
[2023-11-28 14:39:12.386] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) has thrown Sandwich Sam (Medbay Lobby (116,112,2))
[2023-11-28 14:39:12.394] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) crashed into DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) (NEWHP: 92.5) (Medbay Lobby (117,112,2))

some logs of us healing eachother as well:

[2023-11-28 14:37:37.256] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 19) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))
[2023-11-28 14:37:38.576] ATTACK: Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) healed Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) with suture (NEWHP: 29.6) (Starboard Primary Hallway (114,124,2))

[2023-11-28 14:38:58.776] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) healed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with suture (NEWHP: -50.1) (Medbay Lobby (118,112,2))
[2023-11-28 14:38:59.795] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) healed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with suture (NEWHP: -40.1) (Medbay Lobby (118,112,2))

[2023-11-28 14:39:03.894] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) healed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with suture (NEWHP: -1.4) (Medbay Lobby (118,112,2))
[2023-11-28 14:39:12.191] ATTACK: DaliIsTaken/(Lizard-Man) healed Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with suture (NEWHP: 14.8) (Medbay Lobby (118,112,2))

[2023-11-28 14:39:16.366] ATTACK: Vicente S/(Ernesto Strange) injected Watchulookinat/(Sandwich Sam) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: 12.3) (Medbay Lobby (117,113,2))

Dali, you have the reputation of just fighting and fighting more, which is distracting. I don't know how you can fix that if I look back to your countless rounds here on TG. There is something to reflect in your playstyle, lizard-man isn't very "fun" to play with. That would be my subjective opinion here

I don't know what you mean by this. This gimmick had nothing to do with my playstyle, in fact I was specifically trying something new. Saying I'm not fun to play with just seems unnecessary and feels like a personal attack.

First, this fact of you rushing those cubes and placed them in an open traffic area with the intent of bring chaos. Don't say you were doing a "team activity", in 2 minutes span, you winged the gimmick and failed. 7 deaths and at least two delimbs per person is the consequences of your actions and inaction. Please don't try to deny that as that was on you.

I'm going to have to be repeating a couple points here which already disprove this:

I did not dash for the cubes, I went into the tool storage to get tools (something that is normally done early in), and saw the cubes where I was then struck with the idea of hosting a game. The clown did not "play my game", he activated both cubes out of nowhere, he simply sabotaged it (apparently while he was unaware as to what was exactly in the cubes).

the original plan was to attack it as a group as it spawned. Because of the sabotage of the game there was instead an element of surprise, which led to everyone running away in different directions, so I was not given the chance to prepare whatsoever for a coordinated attack. I think you underestimate how much the sudden activation actually ruined the whole plan, but this really did cause a huge difference in how both I and other people reacted in this scenario. Had I been able to do it at my pace, finish talking about the game, etc. without someone sabotaging the whole thing would there not have been any need for a panic as everyone, including myself, would have been properly prepared.

The gorilla is very easy to kill as a group. I can say this because I see it get spawned and killed very often, however the clown activating things way before any cube was meant to be activated made the whole group disperse and instead unleashed chaos. It doesn't seem right to say that I had intentions of bringing chaos when just the very fact that I was trying to talk about the cubes clearly shows otherwise, especially when another person literally activates both cubes while I'm in the middle of talking. They may not have known it was a gorilla, but they did activate both of them after I mentioned that one of the cubes will be deadly, ensuring that the deadly option would spawn. A person prematurely activating both cubes was something out of my control.

Secondly, in your ticket, you pushed the blame on "mapping issue" or that "clown" and that you were not responsibility in any way to the cubes. This is why that ahelp ended shortly. You didn't consider caring for anyone else as all lizard-man did was run away bravely from his mess. You as Lizard-man, were aware of the cubes and aware of what gorillas do. I will agree that there is tons of skill issues going around, but you released the cube at 2:30 minutes into a round. I am sure you are aware that folks late join and wander the halls to get to their jobs and collect tools, only to be met with a gorilla. That gorilla would stun-lock them on a hall wall and delimb them on the spot before moving on to the next person. The gorilla lasted 3 whole minutes and killed 7 people in that short span. Now I consider that your 2:30 rush and the gorilla's 3:00 killing spree resulted in 7 deaths before a round's 6 minutes, by your hands. Do you understand that?

I was not allowed to properly explain myself specifically because the ticket ended shortly and I was initially very much frustrated which was hindering me from clearly explaining my motives. And I was not trying to push the blame on a mapping issue, I was genuinely just confused as to why an item that can't be used existed in a public space. As I've stated before, the gorilla would have been much easier to deal with if the clown had not sabotaged the game. None of this would have had been an issue, if it even spawned in the first place that is.

Third and final issue, I don't see a time here that you apologized or acknowledged your fuck-up. I have searched for this and is still missing. We all have fuck ups, that is something we have in common and you here, continued to push any blame on anyone or anything else than yourself. I will believe you had a bad round, placed you in that bad mood but you defaulted to "careless, fighting, tiding" lizard-man. But, you introduced that cube to a public area and fucked off when gorilla got out of hand. Majority of the public wasn't aware of that cube's easy location yet you were able to setup this situation at roundstart.

I was trying to do something unusual and fun, only to be met with a ban and griefing accusations after a person, whose actions were unexpected and out of my control, randomly ruined something I wanted to put genuine effort in and turned it into a whole mess. And I am not pushing blame on "anyone or anything else than myself", though I do have every right to say that the clown is largely responsible because he intentionally activated the cubes, while I was not done talking, after having heard one of the options were deadly, and all of this as a non-antag. You also keep saying that all I did was run away, which is not even true. As I've mentioned before, people generally ran away in different directions, one of which was Wilhelm, who I had been searching for in order to see if he needed to be brought to medbay, and even alerted the station of his death while trying to see if I could get a location off his sensors (this has already been proven with logs).

[iansdoor]

I am sorry for coming off rude, frankly you needed to be aware. Dali, this is cycling back and forth. We will wait the headmin decision when they get to this appeal as I am still convinced* that your actions were grief.

[Lizardistaken]

I am sorry for coming off rude, frankly you needed to be aware. Dali, this is cycling back and forth. We will wait the headmin decision when they get to this appeal as I am still convinced* that your actions were grief.

I appreciate the apology, as I always prefer for these kinds of things to be civil. Though it is a shame that you are still convinced I had ill intentions. I don't have much more to say about this and believe I have explained the events and my true intentions clearly.

[TheBibleMelts]

sorry for the (extremely) late response.

none of the headmins currently feel that this is worth an overturn. with great ape, comes great responsibility.