[Isratoh] Typhnox/Imitates-The-Lizards - Self defense in the face of clear and present danger

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Ban Details
BYOND account: Typhnox
Character name: Imitates-The-Lizards
Ban type: Ban
Ban length: 12 hours
Ban reason: Trespassed in science as an assistant and beat a scientist to near death for asking them to leave and verbally threatening them.
Time ban was placed: 2023-12-09 09:09:21
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 220198

Reasons for Appealing - Delete irrelevant sections
Are you appealing a validly placed permaban and would like another chance to be unbanned?: No

Is the reason/note factually accurate and fair?: No
If no, please provide more details: Did you not do what the ban reason or note says and want it removed entirely? Do you feel a different wording would be more fair and accurate? Do you have a suggested rewording that would satisfy you for this appeal?

The wording is both factually inaccurate and unfair, and in fact the entire ban is unfair. I would like it removed from my account record, even though I understand this appeal is very unlikely to be resolved before the end of the ban length. Firstly, I disagree that I was trespassing in the department. At the start of the shift, after some standard graytide b&e, I went to the hopline, and asked the Captain for access to ordnance/toxicology so that I could refine some cores to have fun with reactive armor. The Captain checked with the science team on comms, and then agreed to give me access on the condition that I also refine him a gravity core. I did so. However, the thing is, the Assistant ID only has two slots for additional access - which were both taken up by ordnance storage and ordnance testing lab access. So, to actually get to toxicology to do what the captain clearly just allowed me to do, I had to do some hacking around the department. This extra hacking is what Isratoh is claiming is trespassing. I fundamentally disagree that it is trespassing, when the Captain clearly intended to allow me to access toxicology. Anyway, so, I go to ordnance, I refine the Captain's gravity core, and a hallucinatory core for myself, and I head to the science lathe room, which also has the rnd console, to research the anomaly research tech to get myself the reactive armor shell that was the entire purpose of me being in science in the first place - and Cecilia is there. She wants t4 parts. She asks me to wait outside, and she will pda me later when she researches anomaly tech for me. I tell her no, because every time in the past that I have accepted when a scientist offers that, they just completely forget what I asked them for and they go back to their own gameplay. After this, Cecilia accuses me of trespassing. I inform her the Captain gave me access for toxicology. >>>She tells the AI to remove me from the department<<<. Emphasis here because this is important in showing that she started the conflict well before I hit her. I then ask Cecilia for clarification - is she trying to have the AI kill me? She straight up says yes, if I don't leave, she will have the AI kill me. Considering I was a non-human, I took this as a very real and serious threat, and before she could tell the AI to have me murdered, I grabbed a nearby toolbox, and beat her to crit. I epipenned her to keep her from dying, and tossed her over the window. I was about to climb over to take her to medical, when the other scientist in the room started screaming for security, who arrived very quickly. Security took her away, and I went with security willingly. So, basically, considering Cecilia had already ordered the AI to remove me from the department, and clearly told me she would have me killed, I felt there was a clear and present danger to my life, so I beat her to crit to end the threat, and provided her with medical treatment immediately once the threat was neutralized.

Now, the argument from Isratoh is that Cecilia had every right to ask me to leave. Firstly, I did not have a scientist ID, so it was unreasonable to expect her to know I was allowed there. I would counter this by saying I think that's not a good argument because I explicitly told her the Captain gave me permission. She should have PDAd the captain, or just asked him on common if he had given me permission to be there, and this is already ignoring the fact that the captain clearly informed the science team he would be assigning an assistant to ordnance over comms already anyway. Instead she just tried to have me removed by force via the AI, because she was trying to powergame the parts she wanted. TLDR, I tried to communicate and roleplay, she did not, she jumped straight to "Well, I think the rules say I can do this, so im gonna do it so I can get the parts I want", and she blatantly ignored me telling her about the Captain giving me access. Frankly, I would argue that if anything, she was metagaming what she thought she could do within the rules, while I was actually roleplaying.

Second argument from Isratoh in the ticket is that I should have gotten a scientist ID, not just toxins access added to my assistant ID. This would have made it so I did not have to hack the doors, and it would have provided more visual clarity to Cecilia. However, I did not want to spend the entire shift doing scientist things - I just wanted to go into science for one specific reason, and then get out and go be an assistant. I think that's a completely reasonable thing to do. Like, imagine any other scenario, like, say, the SM isn't set up, so I ask for engineering and SM access on my assistant ID, and I go set up the SM and leave. Does that mean that while im in there the local atmos tech can sic the AI on me? I don't think so! Same logic applies here. Also, Cecilia clearly did not care about visual clarity, or whether I was supposed to be there or not - her only concern was using whatever tools she had at her disposal to get her parts she wanted as quickly as possible by removing me, since I would have used up some research points. If she was THAT worried about seeing if I was supposed to be there or not, she would have just asked the Captain.

As a final point, I did not attack them for asking me to leave. I attacked them for first siccing the AI on me, and then making an extremely clear lethal threat against me. I was in clear and present danger, and it was a credible threat considering she already had given the AI orders in this regard.

Supporting logs:

The Captain firstly checks with the science team, and clearly informs the science team she will be assigning me to ordnance (So much for the argument that Cecilia had no idea I should be there):

[2023-12-09 07:45:17.125] GAME: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) Client Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) has taken ownership of mob Cecilia Vujic(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Circuit Lab (120,86,2))

^ important first log, it shows she was clearly in game when the following happens

[2023-12-09 07:45:21.660] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "was up" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:45:27.459] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "ordnance testing lab and ordnance storage please" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:45:52.755] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "let me ask the science department fisrt" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:46:11.133] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "Is anyone working on ords at the moment" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:46:45.243] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "if not im assining a assistant to it and you will all suffer this pain" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))

As you can see, the Captain was extremely clear to the science team that they would be assigning me to ordnance, AND they were connected at the time.

[2023-12-09 07:46:58.787] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "Ok" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:47:02.349] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "under one condition" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:47:06.186] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "get me a grav core" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:47:10.624] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "and a grav mod thing" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:47:11.439] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "ok" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:47:13.030] GAME-EMOTE: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) nods. (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))

Okay. So we have clearly established that the Captain communicated with the science team about assigning an assistant to ordnance, and that they gave me permission to enter the department.

Now, we get to my interactions with Cecilia at the lathe room:

[2023-12-09 08:01:54.111] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "yo Lizards" (Research Division (135,91,2))
[2023-12-09 08:01:58.492] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "wanna bitch at med with me" (Research Division (135,91,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:02.170] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "about disections?" (Research Division (135,91,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:06.581] GAME-EMOTE: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) laughs. (Research and Development (135,93,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:13.105] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "I would but I need to wait on points" (Research and Development (135,93,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:21.782] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "for...?" (Research and Development (139,94,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:32.766] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "anomaly research, I want a reactive armor shell." (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:37.176] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "one second" (Research and Development (139,94,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:48.890] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "no t4 yet" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:49.383] GAME-EMOTE: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) flaps her wings ANGRILY! (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:02:53.112] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "please don&#39;t" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:04.256] GAME-EMOTE: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) points at the �hallucination anomaly core (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:33.781] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "I am not using 20k points for a HALLUCINATION core" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:37.275] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "maybe grav" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:42.020] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "or reactive" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:45.407] GAME-EMOTE: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) points at the �gravitational anomaly core (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:52.365] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "know what fuck it" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:03:58.227] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "could I use the grav core?" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:04:11.380] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "No, its for the captain. I can refine another one for oyu if you order it though" (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:04:22.840] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "we still need t-4 first" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:04:24.409] GAME-EMOTE: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) chuckles. (Research and Development (139,96,2))

Okay. All is fine so far. Now, here is me CLEARLY informing them about why im there and how im not trespassing:

[2023-12-09 08:04:24.809] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "he gave me toxicology access on the condition I refine this for him" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

And they ask me (and another nearby scientist) to wait outside:

[2023-12-09 08:04:37.066] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "can both of you wait outside?" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:04:46.753] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "I&#39;ll PDA you when I get armor" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:05:01.348] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "Nuh, every other time ive done that, people jsut forget about what I needed" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

Now Cecilia turns hostile:

[2023-12-09 08:05:05.665] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "Look" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:05:12.531] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "I am asking you nicely to leave my workspace" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:05:18.503] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "so please leave" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:05:24.687] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "And? Cap gave me access, I can be here if I want" (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:05:35.504] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "AI if lizards doesn&#39;t leave my workspace, please force them out" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:05:36.618] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "thanks" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:00.837] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "also after I get t4 I&#39;m not gonna forget" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:02.120] GAME-EMOTE: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) laughs. (Research and Development (139,96,2))

See how Cecilia never asked the Captain for clarification. Cecilia never attempted to figure out if I was being truthful. Cecilia never asked me "okay then why do you have an assistant ID?". They just jumped to siccing the AI on me. I took the initiative to roleplay, and I took the initiative to explain why I was there, and Cecilia is the one who opened hostilities. Additionally, you can see getting their precious holy T4 parts was their primary focus.

So, here is me asking them to be EXTREMELY clear:

[2023-12-09 08:06:07.292] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "Are you trying to get the AI to kill me" (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:17.158] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "if I was, I would tell it to kill you" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:20.371] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "and if you don&#39;t leave" (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:22.108] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "yes I will" (Research and Development (139,96,2))

"yes I will". If I were a lawyer, and this were a physical presentation in a physical courtroom, I would blow this up on a giant piece of posterboard and show it to the jury. Cecilia already got the AI involved, and clearly told me they would have me killed by it. ANY reasonable person would take this as a completely serious and credible threat. So, I grabbed a nearby toolbox, beat them to crit, and epipenned them, followed by me willingly going with security to the brig. Not quite sure where to get those action logs, sorry. However, I do have one last relevant say log:

[2023-12-09 08:06:30.111] GAME-SAY: Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) (mob_3438) "AI-OOF!" (Research and Development (139,97,2))

This was right after I started beating their skull in with a toolbox. Their last act in this situation was to try and sic the AI on me again. As you can see, their threat was not empty.

Do you disagree with the admin's interpretation of rules or policy?: Yes
If no, please provide more details: The core of this scenario is rule 1, precedent 6, Quote: "You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety."

I disagree firstly that I was trespassing, as the Captain clearly gave me permission to be in science, and I disagree that Cecilia had no way of knowing about this, as the Captain said over comms he would be assigning an assistant to ordnance, AND I informed Cecilia the Captain had done so as well, and secondly, the second portion of the clause "who damage or steal property" is not fulfilled in the slightest. I did not damage or steal any property within the department. Additionally, the second clause, wherein you may be lethally escalated upon for returning after ejection, also is not fulfilled, because I was never ejected in the first place, and yet Cecilia immediately jumped to stating she was about to lethal me via the AI.

Do you feel the ban length or decision to note was unjustifiably harsh?: Yes
If no, please provide more details: I believe this was not a rule break in the first place.

[vect0r]

Hey I'm Cecilia!

[Peanut part snipped by Timberpoes]

Second, I disagree with this ban. Given the fact that Lizards was feeling threatened by me, a human with the full backing of silicons on their side, and had access to toxins, they were a scientist in all but name, I feel like they are in the right to defend themself. An argument could be made about "stay in the lane", but this isn't what this appeal is about.
Imma write up more tomorrow, but imma go to bed now.

[Timberpoes]

It's fine for Vect0r to post here since they were involved, but additional parties tend to complicate appeals and I'm mindful this is """only""" a 12 hour ban.

To that end, I've done some pruning/mod legwork with their reply and the OP, and request that any 3rd party contributions are reasonably concise and to the point. The level of additional complexity should be fitting with a ban that may expire before the appeal is concluded.

[Isratosh]

Our ticket:

Spoiler:

From Ticket #5 during round 220198 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2023-12-09 08:17:56: Ticket Opened by isratosh: hey gamer can you fill me in on what happened in RnD with that scientist Cecilia?
2023-12-09 08:20:33: Reply from typhnox: Sure thing. I wanted to refine cores, so I asked for access from the captain. He gave me access on the condition that I refine a grav core for him. I did so. Went to the science lathe room with the rnd console afterwards to research anomaly tech to get myself a reactive shell to work with a core I refined for myself. Cecilia took issue with my presence, and asked me to leave. I informed her I was given access by the captain, so she told the AI to have me removed if I refused to leave. I asked her to clarify if she was telling the AI to kill me. She said if I refused to leave then yes, she would have me killed. I took that as an obvious threat on my life, and so I grabbed a nearby toolbox and bashed her skull in before she could order the AI to murder me. Epipenned her, and would have taken her to medical but sec showed up first.
2023-12-09 08:23:48: Reply from isratosh: yeah I see the captain added ordnance access to your card, but that was it. you still had to hack a door to get in there and your card still says assistant. from my perspective here, you busted into science and then nearly murdered the scientist for asking you to leave and giving a verbal threat. do you see where i'm getting the issue from?
2023-12-09 08:24:46: Reply from typhnox: The captain would have given me full science access, but was limited by me only having 2 open slots on my id. I don't really think that's relevant, his intent was to clearly give me access to science.
2023-12-09 08:25:13: Reply from typhnox: Like the only way to access toxicology in the first place is through science
2023-12-09 08:25:26: Reply from isratosh: if they really wanted to do that they should've given you a card that says "scientist" and that would've removed any doubt from the scientist who thought you weren't supposed to be in there
2023-12-09 08:25:50: Reply from typhnox: I didnt want to be a scientist though. I wanted to continue to be an assistant, just with toxicology access.
2023-12-09 08:26:16: Reply from typhnox: one moment need to ssd
2023-12-09 08:26:24: Reply from isratosh: sure
2023-12-09 08:42:58: Reply from typhnox: Sorry about that. I'm at work and some people came in at 12:30 AM. Anyway, my point is, the captain obviously wanted me to have access to there. He didnt give me a scientist ID because I just asked for access, not an ID change, and the limitations of the ID system are not relevant when we compare to the facts that the captain clearly and obviously gave me permission to be in science, and wanted me there to do work for him. The scientist made a blatant threat on my life, and they got their skull caved in for that threat. Cecilia is clearly just trying to hide behind the "You can protect your workplace" metaprotections, but I told her expressly I was given permission to be there, and she still very very clearly threatened my life. The correct play on her part would have been to ask the captain in common or pda him if I was really given access, to which the captain would have said yes, but instead she unga brained to have me murdered by the AI for daring to be in the holy science department. Frankly her rolepla
2023-12-09 08:43:47: Reply from typhnox: Frankly her roleplay was bad and everything I did makes 100% sense in character and in the roleplay scenario.
2023-12-09 08:48:53: Reply from isratosh: yeah it's not on Cecilia to verify that you have access there. you quite literally did not, and you knew it because you had to hack a door to get in there. you can't have your assistant role and also have access to places and not expect to get kicked out if you're not welcome. they were just standing around in their department, they can ask an assistant to leave if they want to, they can say whatever they want to, you can't use it as an excuse to beat them to an inch of their life while trespassing in their department
2023-12-09 08:50:02: Reply from typhnox: So let me get this straight - If im somewhere, and I tell someone I was given access there by the captain, they dont have to verify that at all? They can just start attacking me without taking two seconds to ask on common "hey did you give them access?"
2023-12-09 08:50:45: Reply from typhnox: And again, they werent just saying random things, they made a direct threat on my life.
2023-12-09 08:52:26: Reply from typhnox: Like again, its not like I made no attempt to communicate with them. If I was just in that room and didnt tell them I had talked to the captain? TOTALLY justified. But I told them why I was in science. I think that I put forth the effort to communicate, and they didnt.
2023-12-09 08:52:48: Reply from isratosh: did they start attacking you? no, that's not what happened. they just asked you to leave and then made a verbal threat and you started going off on them with a toolbox
2023-12-09 08:53:43: Reply from typhnox: They didnt start attacking me, no, but they told me they were just about to tell the AI to have me killed. Yeah sure, I wasn't hurt YET, but anyone can see I was in clear and present danger.
2023-12-09 08:54:30: Reply from isratosh: then leave the room? i dunno man, you really took it a bit too far
2023-12-09 08:55:20: Reply from typhnox: I don't think I took it too far. I even epipenned them. I didnt like, murder them and stuff them in a locker or anything. I clearly wasnt trying to murder them, or why would I save them from dying?
2023-12-09 08:55:39: Reply from typhnox: They threatened me, I crit them to end the threat and provided medical treatment.
2023-12-09 08:55:51: Reply from typhnox: That seems 100% reasonable to me.
2023-12-09 08:57:14: Reply from isratosh: yeah I appreciate that you did that, but the whole premise here is still wrong. i'm trying to make it clear to you that you can't be somewhere you're not supposed to be and beat up somebody asking you to leave. i hope you can take that from our conversation
2023-12-09 08:59:14: Reply from typhnox: I can try my best to be more civil next time, but I want to be clear I beat them for threatening to kill me, not for asking me to leave.
2023-12-09 09:05:26: Reply from isratosh: i get that but these are just words. you can just walk away or ignore them. it might work as a reason to start a fight in some other circumstance, but the circumstance here was you were trespassing in their department and they were trying to get you to leave. i'm not really getting the feeling that you're understanding the depth of my point here. i'm gonna apply a short ban - please try to be mindful of what you're doing and how you're appearing to others and please don't start fights while trespassing.
2023-12-09 09:06:04: Reply from typhnox: Well, I guess all there is to do is to hash it out in appeals then.
2023-12-09 09:06:41: Client disconnected
2023-12-09 09:06:41: <a>Isratosh</a>/(Bartholomew Martins) has created a temporary 12 hours server ban for Typhnox.
2023-12-09 09:06:42: Resolved by Isratosh
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

• By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/220198/5
• By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/220198/5

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.17.7

While my bird's-eye-view of the situation certainly looked a lot like an assistant breaking and entering into science and beating up a person working there for threatening to remove them, which is generally something I would take some sort of administrative action against, I am willing to agree that the details of this particular incident makes it more acceptable within the rules.

You did make an effort to ask an authority for access - greytiders don't do this. You did attempt communication with the scientist - greytiders don't usually do this either. The scientist chose to make a credible lethal threat against you - they could have chosen to call security or beat you up first, either of which likely would have resulted in a more favourable outcome for them. You did make an effort to prevent them from dying with the epipen. You did go quietly with security when they showed up - greytiders don't usually do this either.

The attacks logs where you applied a toolbox to their head 14 times:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2023-12-09 08:06:28.245] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88)  (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:29.088] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 76)  (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:29.977] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 64)  (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:30.890] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 55)  (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:31.745] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 43)  (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:32.639] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 31)  (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:33.515] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 19)  (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:34.321] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 7)  (Research and Development (139,96,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:35.513] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -5)  (Research and Development (139,95,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:36.370] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -17)  (Research and Development (139,94,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:37.272] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -29)  (Research and Development (138,94,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:38.280] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -41)  (Research and Development (138,94,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:39.280] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -53)  (Research and Development (138,94,2))
[2023-12-09 08:06:40.118] ATTACK: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) attacked Vect0r/(Cecilia Vujic) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -65)  (Research and Development (138,94,2))

The scientist backed you up both when I admin PM'd them in-game and here on this thread. I do want to make it clear that they did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation - they would have been 100% warranted in beating you up and removing you from the department if they wanted. Your ID said assistant, you were wearing assistant clothing, your ID didn't actually have access to the science department or the RnD area that the conflict went down in and you had to hack doors to get in there. You chose to make personal attacks against them both in our admin PM conversation and here on your ban appeal - this makes me extremely hesitant to remove the note, but I will consider it anyway given that vect0r has supported you in the face of it.

I will remove the note and hope that you can recognize the optics of the situation from the scientist's perspective. I stand by my assertion that it's not on them to radio the captain or whatever - you were in their workspace and attempting to dictate their work. They gave you plenty of options and stated twice that they would research what you wanted. You can't have your assistant role and also expect to do other people's jobs and not be unwelcome, regardless of what access the captain has given you. I really don't agree that the scientist was "powergaming T4 parts" at the same time that the assistant was trying to usurp the direction of research towards a reactive armour for themselves. That's just silly.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Understood. Next time I'll uh, scream "Hey Captain, can you tell this scientist you gave me permission to be here, please?" on common comms myself or something. In retrospect, it does make more sense to have me do so, considering I was the guest in the department. I don't disagree that this whole situation could have gone better.

If you're removing the note/ban from my record, I obviously have no further complaints. I'm glad to see we worked this out.

Thank you Isratosh.

Also, in case you were wondering, Vect0r and I had some PMs after this incident and there's no hard feelings between us either.

[Isratosh]

Great, thanks.

It's gone and I'll resolve this thread in 24 hours or so.