BYOND account: H3skan
Character name: Arar "Makita" Dreizehn
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 6 days
Ban reason: As a non-antag CE. Setup a bomb to another traitor that blew up medical resulting in 6 deaths. This is very similar to a bomb shop deal. You gaslighted them in IC to bomb and then was "surprised" that they would open the valve.
Time ban was placed: 2024-01-12, roughly 9:20 PM
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 222067
Reasons for Appealing - Delete irrelevant sections
Is the reason/note factually accurate and fair?: No
If no, please provide more details: The note implies that I acted in bad faith and used deception in interactions with admins
Supporting logs: The logs said something about me opening the valve directly (or last touching the can), but I believe that issue was resolved since the traitor in question did that. Otherwise logs are irrelevant here, I think.
Do you disagree with the admin's interpretation of rules or policy?: No
If no, please provide more details: I think this is supposed to say "if yes", right? Otherwise I agree that the bombshop ruling applies here, the note is my main concern.
Do you feel the ban length or decision to note was unjustifiably harsh?: Yes
If no, please provide more details: (are all of these inverted? I'm pretty sure this should say "if yes") Again my emphasis lies on the implied deception that may have led to a longer ban, though otherwise, if the ban lengh is only influenced by the bombsell rule violation, It's fine as again I agree with it.
For context, I provided the bomb to that person because due to prior knowledge of their playstyle I expected them to use it as a prop for a joke (blowing themselves up in space or whatever), fully believing them not to be an antagonist as this is not the type of behavior I'd expect of them in that case. In admin interactions the topic was mainly around whether or not I opened the valve directly since the last logged fingerprints on the canisterbomb were mine, which appears to have been a logging error since I did not and could not have opened it, standing two tiles away from it at the time of the explosion. I had to leave the conversation early due to real life things, but since it is not noted in the ban it seems that that issue has been resolved.
About the reason for the implied "faking" of surprise, here is what happened: After handing the bomb over he did not directly run to medbay and blow it up. When I came he to medbay he was not there. This being the expected outcome, since I still believed him not to be an antagonist and simply setting up a dumb joke, I said, and I quote "I knew it, he does not have the balls to do it" over radio. I think it would be rather odd to describe a "no balls" as gaslighting. As for the surprise, after it exploded (he had it stored in the cmo office), he acted genuinly surpised in deadchat, claiming that "chemistry fucked up" and "I'm ahelping that". There were a bunch of fuel tanks in his room, so I imagined maybe an explosion in chem carried over and caused a chain reaction. When getting my first admin message my surprise was real, as I thought everyone involved in it not to be an antagonist and the explosion to be accidental.
To summarise, I simply don't want a note claiming I'm trying to deceive people when that's not the case. I blow things up on accident, I fuck up here and there (looking back on this I fully admit here too, I will definitely not be giving away bombs for anything other than nukie-fighting in the future), but I am always honest about it.
H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
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Heskan
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:24 pm
- Byond Username: H3skan
- Location: in your walls
H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
Last edited by Heskan on Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheRex9001
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:41 am
- Byond Username: Rex9001
Re: H3skan - bombsell ban misunderstanding
Please include the banning admin in your title
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iansdoor
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 2:49 am
- Byond Username: Iansdoor
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
Howdy there. Ara
I am fine with amending the note to something else of an err. I'll post the chat logs leading up to the bombing. 6 folks died and a few were gibbed. You understand that the policy is every kill as non-antag is a day ban. I don't mind that you taught how to make a nice bomb, but you personally made this one canister bomb to give to Ceejay. As much as you didn't "pull the trigger", you give the heavy hitting bomb in the middle of medical. A bomb that is 2x the bomb value of syndiebomb. If you would like, you can break down the story more for me, to amend the note to your liking. You may also convince me that you had an Err in judgement a one off and I may reduce the ban.
>you trade modsuits?
>you for some reason, offer to make a bomb in the trade.. as a gift?
>you attempt to teach someone how to make that bomb and show boat your skills, "will be made in 5 minutes"
>Ceejay hates atmos, but he watches you do your work, since you are "willing to give you a bomb cmo"
>Ceejay takes the bomb and you lose track of it
>You gaslight Ceejay while having the AI track him
>Ceejay and you are in his office and the thing goes off cause he is impatient and your bomb is 2x as good as the syndiebomb.
>6 folks die that weren't you two as there is giant hole that was medical.
The raw logs of y'alls
Your logs
His logs
This is the ticket where we left off if you want to continue on.
I am fine with amending the note to something else of an err. I'll post the chat logs leading up to the bombing. 6 folks died and a few were gibbed. You understand that the policy is every kill as non-antag is a day ban. I don't mind that you taught how to make a nice bomb, but you personally made this one canister bomb to give to Ceejay. As much as you didn't "pull the trigger", you give the heavy hitting bomb in the middle of medical. A bomb that is 2x the bomb value of syndiebomb. If you would like, you can break down the story more for me, to amend the note to your liking. You may also convince me that you had an Err in judgement a one off and I may reduce the ban.
ADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (Devast: 7, Heavy: 14, Light: 29, Flame: 0) in Chief Medical Officer's Office (95,101,2) (JMP). Possible cause: the gas tank. Last fingerprints: h3skan/(Arar 'Makita' Dreizehn)(?) (FLW).
What I see as the story from both of y'all's interactions is that6672: [2024-01-12 17:33:24.736] H3skan/(Arar 'Makita' Dreizehn) (mob_3595) "i knew ceejay wouldnt actually bomb medbay" (Medbay Central (87,88,2))
6744: [2024-01-12 17:33:39.824] H3skan/(Arar 'Makita' Dreizehn) (mob_3595) "just doesnt have the balls" (Medbay Central (88,86,2))
>you trade modsuits?
>you for some reason, offer to make a bomb in the trade.. as a gift?
>you attempt to teach someone how to make that bomb and show boat your skills, "will be made in 5 minutes"
>Ceejay hates atmos, but he watches you do your work, since you are "willing to give you a bomb cmo"
>Ceejay takes the bomb and you lose track of it
>You gaslight Ceejay while having the AI track him
>Ceejay and you are in his office and the thing goes off cause he is impatient and your bomb is 2x as good as the syndiebomb.
>6 folks die that weren't you two as there is giant hole that was medical.
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Your logs
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Heskan
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:24 pm
- Byond Username: H3skan
- Location: in your walls
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
I think I'll go through it line by line:
>you trade modsuits? -> the trade was with another atmos tech or engi who took my CE modsuit since I latejoined, it had nothing to do with anything else
>you for some reason, offer to make a bomb in the trade.. as a gift? -> I offered the bomb because I thought it to be a prop for a joke, not in exchange for something
>you attempt to teach someone how to make that bomb and show boat your skills, "will be made in 5 minutes" -> yep, I tried teaching him how to make one himself
>Ceejay hates atmos, but he watches you do your work, since you are "willing to give you a bomb cmo" -> correct, he likes the outcome of atmos not the path to it
>Ceejay takes the bomb and you lose track of it -> yes
>You gaslight Ceejay while having the AI track him -> again I think "gaslight" would refer to something like me telling him that I never made a real bomb or something, I just wanted to have a little banter for no specific reason. I think my concern is quite noticable when asking for the location of the bomb.
>Ceejay and you are in his office and the thing goes off cause he is impatient and your bomb is 2x as good as the syndiebomb. -> 2x of minibombs or the big ones? Seems a bit much for the syndie bombs but either way, yes in essence. What is still odd to me is why he didnt admit to it in dchat and pretended that it was accidental, but that doesn't really matter besides explaining my initial confusion.
>6 folks die that weren't you two as there is giant hole that was medical. -> yes
I would thus like the note to be something along the lines of "As a non-antag CE, gave a bomb to someone that turned out to be a traitor and blew up medical resulting in 6 deaths. This is very similar to a bomb shop deal."
In summary, I have definitely made an error in my judgement of another player. As I mentioned previously I don't just give away bombs, this is the first time this has happened (not counting bombs for nukie or late-stage cult fighting) and was the result of a misjudgement on my part. I should not have relied on my intuition and endangered people's round in exchange for the possibility of a joke and can guarantee that it will not happen again.
>you trade modsuits? -> the trade was with another atmos tech or engi who took my CE modsuit since I latejoined, it had nothing to do with anything else
>you for some reason, offer to make a bomb in the trade.. as a gift? -> I offered the bomb because I thought it to be a prop for a joke, not in exchange for something
>you attempt to teach someone how to make that bomb and show boat your skills, "will be made in 5 minutes" -> yep, I tried teaching him how to make one himself
>Ceejay hates atmos, but he watches you do your work, since you are "willing to give you a bomb cmo" -> correct, he likes the outcome of atmos not the path to it
>Ceejay takes the bomb and you lose track of it -> yes
>You gaslight Ceejay while having the AI track him -> again I think "gaslight" would refer to something like me telling him that I never made a real bomb or something, I just wanted to have a little banter for no specific reason. I think my concern is quite noticable when asking for the location of the bomb.
>Ceejay and you are in his office and the thing goes off cause he is impatient and your bomb is 2x as good as the syndiebomb. -> 2x of minibombs or the big ones? Seems a bit much for the syndie bombs but either way, yes in essence. What is still odd to me is why he didnt admit to it in dchat and pretended that it was accidental, but that doesn't really matter besides explaining my initial confusion.
>6 folks die that weren't you two as there is giant hole that was medical. -> yes
I would thus like the note to be something along the lines of "As a non-antag CE, gave a bomb to someone that turned out to be a traitor and blew up medical resulting in 6 deaths. This is very similar to a bomb shop deal."
In summary, I have definitely made an error in my judgement of another player. As I mentioned previously I don't just give away bombs, this is the first time this has happened (not counting bombs for nukie or late-stage cult fighting) and was the result of a misjudgement on my part. I should not have relied on my intuition and endangered people's round in exchange for the possibility of a joke and can guarantee that it will not happen again.
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Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
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Heskan
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:24 pm
- Byond Username: H3skan
- Location: in your walls
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
I mean I've seen Ceejay do similar things. We don't exactly interact too often but generally tend to play at similar times. The way he acted from his whole "fuck this I don't want to be a doctor" thing I concluded that he probably wants to do something like suicide in space with a bomb since that's the type of thing I'd expect him to do purely out of boredom. He just seemed so casual about it I thought it to be a setup for something.
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iansdoor
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 2:49 am
- Byond Username: Iansdoor
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
Well, the one take away from this is You need to learn to limit how much of a bomb there is and make canister weaker for the gimmick like that or make the canister a fire can or make public announcement that there is ER in your judgement, you made mistake and there is a bomb in medical.
I am not asking for much here, you learned funny tanks from Nicki and myself by watching and I realize that you didn't come to our conclusions, which is how to make a "failure bomb" by previous mistakes. I'll state this again, you may teach, but don't do the actions, the setup as non-antag OR if you do the actions, and setup you make sure that those end goal products aren't in situation that allows for a maxcap in public area. There is a reason why TTV's are arrest on sight if those bombs leave toxins and this isn't any different. I understand your playing off that canister "bombs" aren't good enough by saying "but then theres no use in" "using the" "canbomb" "like" and Ceejay knows what they do ""how you mean?" "right" "yeah pass", when he doesn't feel like waiting around for syndiebomb.
This is a syndiebomb explosion
I am not asking for much here, you learned funny tanks from Nicki and myself by watching and I realize that you didn't come to our conclusions, which is how to make a "failure bomb" by previous mistakes. I'll state this again, you may teach, but don't do the actions, the setup as non-antag OR if you do the actions, and setup you make sure that those end goal products aren't in situation that allows for a maxcap in public area. There is a reason why TTV's are arrest on sight if those bombs leave toxins and this isn't any different. I understand your playing off that canister "bombs" aren't good enough by saying "but then theres no use in" "using the" "canbomb" "like" and Ceejay knows what they do ""how you mean?" "right" "yeah pass", when he doesn't feel like waiting around for syndiebomb.
This is a syndiebomb explosion
This is what your canister explosionADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (Devast: 3, Heavy: 9, Light: 17, Flame: 17) in Thunderdome Arena (165,47,1) (JMP). Possible cause: Donk Co. Super-Stable Bomb Payload. Last fingerprints: *null*(?) (FLW).
This is the maxcap explosion for atmos stuff. only chemical nades could go higherADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (Devast: 7, Heavy: 14, Light: 29, Flame: 0) in Chief Medical Officer's Office (95,101,2) (JMP). Possible cause: the gas tank. Last fingerprints: h3skan/(Arar 'Makita' Dreizehn)(?) (FLW)
ADMIN LOG: Explosion with size (Devast: 8, Heavy: 16, Light: 32, Flame: 32) in Thunderdome Arena (167,49,1) (JMP). Possible cause: the cruise missile. Last fingerprints: *null*(?) (FLW).
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Heskan
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:24 pm
- Byond Username: H3skan
- Location: in your walls
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
I understand, this is exactly what I was planning to do in future cases when asked for a bomb, provide instructions but leave the procedure and assembly to someone else. The idea of giving away less harmful bombs is also an interesting one, though even a shieldbomb, as in the bomb being a burncan and the explosion being caused upon deactivation of the shield, is still rather devastating, though not even remotely as much as a true canister bomb and a fire can can easily cause a similar level of destruction, unless you are referring to something I don't know of (I'm assuming by fire can you mean a bit of hot plasma in a canister).
(Also I'm surprised syndie bombs are this weak, I think the one I had in mind was the one on lavaland which seems to be special)
Again, I can promise you that this will not repeat. Should it occur accidentally, as by a stolen payload, I will do the necessary IC steps like an annoucement, security notification and general effort to fix the issue.
(Also I'm surprised syndie bombs are this weak, I think the one I had in mind was the one on lavaland which seems to be special)
Again, I can promise you that this will not repeat. Should it occur accidentally, as by a stolen payload, I will do the necessary IC steps like an annoucement, security notification and general effort to fix the issue.
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iansdoor
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 2:49 am
- Byond Username: Iansdoor
Re: H3skan banned by Iandsoor - bombsell ban misunderstanding
Alright, I'll reduce this to 12 hours a kill, with the condition you exploring what I suggested.
You gotta tune back on your bombs as they are all maxcaps or near that, which is great thing as an antagonist, but lack luster as not. Gimmickwise, what I mean by a fire can is 12 plasma moles of 4,000K heat, that fire stuff is super easy to deal with. no one would that know atmospherics wouldn't know anything better than "oh the greenlight is on, so it must be full of something good!" A canister at a million heat is alittle too much as that will break the ground and everything will start lagging and bleh bleh bleh. The admins have been chatting a long while with the bomb shop stuff. I wouldn't mind if there was duds in the mix, but not every admin will think like that. As I have said before, you don't know how to make those duds as you have been only interested in the final perfect product!
You gotta tune back on your bombs as they are all maxcaps or near that, which is great thing as an antagonist, but lack luster as not. Gimmickwise, what I mean by a fire can is 12 plasma moles of 4,000K heat, that fire stuff is super easy to deal with. no one would that know atmospherics wouldn't know anything better than "oh the greenlight is on, so it must be full of something good!" A canister at a million heat is alittle too much as that will break the ground and everything will start lagging and bleh bleh bleh. The admins have been chatting a long while with the bomb shop stuff. I wouldn't mind if there was duds in the mix, but not every admin will think like that. As I have said before, you don't know how to make those duds as you have been only interested in the final perfect product!
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