[NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

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gameaddict07
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[NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by gameaddict07 » #720147

Ban Details
BYOND account: gameaddict07
Character name: Mines-And-Crafts
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 3 days
Ban reason: In round 223419, an Ice Box round, activated a mining vent that contained a colossus right next to the escape shuttle. While initially, I gave it the benefit of the doubt that maybe it was a mistake; re-examining the logs and your say logs, you also screamed out 'Nukies'. This speaks to me that you actually did this rather deliberately, and means you were also being dishonest about your actions. With your hours, I'm even less impressed. Don't do this again. Since you left, feel free to appeal on the forums so we can discuss this further - viewforum.php?f=7
Time ban was placed: 2024-02-08 22:39:02
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 223419

Reasons for Appealing
Is the reason/note factually accurate and fair?: No
If no, please provide more details: The reason given is only partially accurate. The ending suggests this is something I did on purpose to grief. My intention was merely to fight for the sake of fighting. The round was ending after the SM blew and the Captain killed himself, so I went out into the wastes to look for vents (and to blow up the copious amounts of gibtonite for fun). This is the approximate route I travelled:
Spoiler:
Image
I did not see the right side of the station from this distance. The only sense of distance I had from the station was that I saw the bomb test site to my left, which I understood to be reasonably far from the station, and the edge of the map was visible if I moved several tiles to the right. The vent was located at 236,143. I activated the vent before the shuttle landed, so this is an accurate view of my surroundings:
Spoiler:
Image
Something potentially important to note here is that the station had a trait that made the snowstorm outside last forever - something I wasn't aware of. I assumed it would eventually die down, but it did not, so everything was already very hard to see.
After the Colossus spawned, I started kiting it to the right, specifically to get it even further away from the station just in case it wasn't already far enough. I brought it all the way to the very edge of the map, at which point I could not go any further and had to turn back. This can be seen from the logs of it speaking every time it attacked:
Spoiler:
Image
Image
As you can see, I was wrong about being far enough away from the shuttle, even though I was literally up against the border of the map. But while I was mistaken, I was not malicious. I took precautions on making sure it was as far from the station as I could get it. I then received an Admin PM. This is the entirety of the ticket:
Spoiler:
Image
As soon as I got the Admin PM, I ran off from the Colossus so that it would stop firing bolts. I was unaware it was hitting the shuttle. The round ended shortly after this exchange, and I left for a bit to do something IRL. I came back a bit later, tried to reconnect, and was met with my ban message.
This was originally going to be a note, which I believe is fair. I made a mistake that lead to a dangerous situation, and was lucky it didn't kill anyone. However, after I had left, the Admin seems to have changed their mind based on the fact that I said "OH FUCK NUKIES" mid-fight. There's a very clear explanation for this. The shuttle for this round was the Humpback shuttle (one I'd never even heard about before):
Spoiler:
Image
Looking at that shuttle should make it clear how, in the middle of a heavy snow storm, while fighting against megafauna, seeing a fraction of it for a couple seconds at most, someone could confuse it for a nukie shuttle.

Do you disagree with the admin's interpretation of rules or policy?: No
If no, please provide more details: If I intentionally caused the Colossus to attack the shuttle, then I absolutely would have deserved this ban. However, that is not what happened.

Do you feel the ban length or decision to note was unjustifiably harsh?: Yes
If yes, please provide more details: A three day ban for what was initially going to be a reasonably deserved note based off of a single line of text taken out of context while I was gone for 30 minutes is pretty extreme, in my opinion.
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by NecromancerAnne » #720170

Hi. Thank you for responding. I was very much hoping you would since you disappeared before I could talk more.

There are a few things that I would like to highlight here that I think are important, but one important one is that I'm willing to lower this to 1 day, and edit the note to reflect the more important circumstances of the situation (which I'll provide a altered note after I've provided my perspective on the situation some more). But that is the extent of alterations i'm willing to do. I would have discussed this further but you had already left.

My main reasoning behind this decision is primarily because all of this seems too convenient despite an extensive knowledge of the role you are playing and the game sense I would expect of someone with 2.5k hours. At a certain amount of playtime, you not knowing otherwise common knowledge aspects of the game just stops being an excuse for wilful negligence that threatens to jeopardize other peoples play experience. Particularly in a role in which the individual has copious amounts of first-hand experience. Let me go over this bit by bit.

The Colossus Itself and Ice Box

Because of your mining experience, you probably have an intimate understanding of how colossus projectiles work. One of the defining features of the projectiles is wall/object deletion, and the other is extremely long flight distances (really, it's just the default, but it's more significant for what colossus does and how spammy he is with his projectiles). Notably, it has a flight range of 50 tiles. That puts any and all colossus projectiles well within station striking distance of the station walls, even accidentally. Even if you lured them away to the edge, he's still lagging behind, and he's still going to be shooting. So, even if we disregard the shuttle (which is relatively thin by comparison to some shuttles, such as the typical Ice Box shuttle), you certainly are causing the colossus to strike the station by starting the boss there. Plenty of mining players have had the fun privilege of having to wade through the remains of the mining station on lavaland due to one miner luring the colossus vaguely close by. That's such a staple experience, I'm certain you're familiar with it as well. People know he shoots far and lays flat practically any nearby buildings. People who have actually taken the time to fight him would know this very well.

Even though you want to suggest that your understanding of your position is vague, you have enough sense of direction to be hitting the main route landmarks the entire way around the station that are mapped in. You look to be heading at least towards the next lot of landmarks if you found the vent there, if you had just made the loop around the bomb testing site. That next landmark would be the big hole above departures and the marker lines that indicate the northeastern corner. I've done this route so many times at this point I know it as well as you likely do, and I know where I am usually even during storms because of these landmarks. If you're following that path, I think you should vaugely know where you are in proximity to the station.

Just taking these factors into consideration, how was starting the boss when you did ever going to not result in disaster for anyone looking to depart? The colossus only didn't completely destroy the shuttle because it happened to employ some of the easier bullet patterns. Very lucky. It still managed to strike people into crit inside of the shuttle. And put holes through it enough that I was worried that when it launched, the shuttle would be spaced. Had it been, there wouldn't have been as much deliberation about how exactly to handle this administratively. I'm treating this similar to a reckless use of a dangerous, shuttle-damaging/destroying item.

The Callout for Nukies

When I saw you shouting about nukies, I just couldn't really believe it because frankly, I don't think it was internally consistent with your logic, but also the logic of an otherwise much older player either. For one, while I can't completely guarantee that this is not how it works, I have run...some questionable events in the past on icebox using the nuclear operative shuttle turrets. And, even through the snowstorms (which I've found to shoot you even during snowstorms, which made me really second guess having run an event on icebox because of it), they've got a long vision and very broad coverage on all sides of the infiltrator shuttle. If you could see the shuttle in a snowstorm, the turrets definitely would have seen you, and you would have definitely been shot by those turrets. You probably wouldn't have had the chance to make that callout if you were heading into the shuttle while focusing on the colossus.

On top of that, you mean to tell me that you start a fight with the colossus, know your vague location, and the begin moving within spotting distance of the shuttle before departure, even though that would be leading the colossus into the station? You would have had to have been moving in a southwestern direction for this to have happened. What was your final destination? Why head in that direction and not north, or east? Were you just going to park it alongside the eastern most station wall, along maintenance north of the bomb launch site? I could understand why, it's a big open space.

Not for nothing, but that still puts the colossus in direct striking distance of the station in all cases where you move in a south/southwestern direction. You were going to lure that fucker straight into the station, and other people, regardless because of your trajectory and timing.

I don't want to have to pull up every round you may have seen this particular shuttle. But I would think that if you could misidentify the Infiltrator, you would at least know how the Infiltrator itself works. And if you're capable of misidentifying a shuttle, you were definitely moving in the absolutely wrong direction if your intent was not to cause people to get shot by death bolts fired well off screen by the colossus.

The Note and Ban

Again, an explanation is better than nothing, and it at least convinced me that it wasn't outright malicious. Just incredibly inconsiderate of anyone else in the round. It's why I felt it just wasn't right to not be more heavy-handed than a note. You aren't an inexperienced player. Even spawning a colossus onto the station z-level alone is an incredible irresponsible thing to be doing unless you can be sure its in the dead middle of the wastes.

I'll alter the note to read as such
In round 223419, an Ice Box round, activated a mining vent that contained a colossus right next to the escape shuttle. This resulted in the shuttle, and several occupants, being repeatedly shot by the colossus as he made a pass alongside it while chasing gameaddict07. Only veering away because he believed it to be the Syndicate Infiltrator. Given that your final destination would have put you directly on the path of luring the colossus into the station itself, and you chose to activate the vent and spawn the colossus while the station would still be in the evacuation procedures (and thus, the shuttle to be riddled with death bolts as it was), the fault lies with you if other people get hurt. Someone with your experience should know better and should act more responsibly.
And the ban will be reduced. I'll apply those now so that they can take effect as soon as possible.
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Vekter
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by Vekter » #720202

It should be worth noting that Shaft Miner is gameraddict07's most played role by far, sitting at just shy of 75 hours. The next closest is Cyborg at 12.

Additionally, gameraddict07 has killed 69 (nice) Colossi.

(Stats taken from https://statbus.space/player/gameaddict07)
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by gameaddict07 » #720268

Thank you for reviewing the ban. I fully admit that what I did was careless and in hindsight a very bad idea. However, there's one part of the note I'm confused about.
Given that your final destination would have put you directly on the path of luring the colossus into the station itself
I wasn't heading towards the station, apart from when I was already up against the right side of the map and needed to move elsewhere. This makes it seem like my intent was to bring the colossus onto the station, when I was trying to keep it as close to the edge as I could.
Vekter wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:19 pm It should be worth noting that Shaft Miner is gameraddict07's most played role by far, sitting at just shy of 75 hours. The next closest is Cyborg at 12.

Additionally, gameraddict07 has killed 69 (nice) Colossi.

(Stats taken from https://statbus.space/player/gameaddict07)
For the sake of accuracy, that's very incorrect.
Image
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Vekter
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by Vekter » #720271

gameaddict07 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 am
Vekter wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:19 pm It should be worth noting that Shaft Miner is gameraddict07's most played role by far, sitting at just shy of 75 hours. The next closest is Cyborg at 12.

Additionally, gameraddict07 has killed 69 (nice) Colossi.

(Stats taken from https://statbus.space/player/gameaddict07)
For the sake of accuracy, that's very incorrect.
Image
This is my bad; the data I saw was over the last 30 days, not total.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by NecromancerAnne » #720411

gameaddict07 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 am Thank you for reviewing the ban. I fully admit that what I did was careless and in hindsight a very bad idea. However, there's one part of the note I'm confused about.
Given that your final destination would have put you directly on the path of luring the colossus into the station itself
I wasn't heading towards the station, apart from when I was already up against the right side of the map and needed to move elsewhere. This makes it seem like my intent was to bring the colossus onto the station, when I was trying to keep it as close to the edge as I could.
I get that there is the possibility that wasn't the intent. But whether you intended or not, that is the trajectory you would have taken. Hence why it was able to pepper the shuttle for a good amount of time. I don't see any reason to change the note as is; it's less an accusation of intent, and more 'this is what would have happened, be more considerate of your positioning'.

Or, more specifically, if there is any take-away from this; if you invite a megafauna onto the station z-level and people are injured/harmed by the megafauna, that's on you. No buts or ifs.
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by gameaddict07 » #720637

NecromancerAnne wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:52 pm
gameaddict07 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 am Thank you for reviewing the ban. I fully admit that what I did was careless and in hindsight a very bad idea. However, there's one part of the note I'm confused about.
Given that your final destination would have put you directly on the path of luring the colossus into the station itself
I wasn't heading towards the station, apart from when I was already up against the right side of the map and needed to move elsewhere. This makes it seem like my intent was to bring the colossus onto the station, when I was trying to keep it as close to the edge as I could.
I get that there is the possibility that wasn't the intent. But whether you intended or not, that is the trajectory you would have taken. Hence why it was able to pepper the shuttle for a good amount of time. I don't see any reason to change the note as is; it's less an accusation of intent, and more 'this is what would have happened, be more considerate of your positioning'.

Or, more specifically, if there is any take-away from this; if you invite a megafauna onto the station z-level and people are injured/harmed by the megafauna, that's on you. No buts or ifs.
Sorry for taking a while to reply. I just want to say that I agree with most of this note, and I now understand aggroing megafauna on the same z level of the station is something you shouldn't do. But to claim that I would have ended up "luring the colossus into the station itself" is still wrong. Bringing a Colossus onto the station isn't a thing that just happens by accident. It's very slow, walks in a straight line towards whatever it's aggroed on, and fires a hail of death bolts at you that you have to give a wide berth to avoid. The only way the Colossus would have gotten onto the station is if I went onto the station myself while fighting it - which isn't something I would have done when I was attempting to avoid the station altogether. This is why I bring up intent. Saying I would have brought it onto the station implies that I was heading directly towards it, all while avoiding wave after wave of lagging projectiles in the middle of a snowstorm that was slowing and killing me via low body temperature. Had I died in the process, it would have just stood in place.

To claim that I was bringing it onto the station takes this from an accusation of negligence (which I accept fully; activating the vent was a bad idea) to one of deliberate intent to grief. From what I know, player notes are intended to provide information to Admins about previous behavior, and I feel that this statement unfairly paints me as actively malicious to any Admin whose only context to this event is the note itself. If you still disagree with me on this, then I'd like for a Headmin to weigh in.

(The bit at the end about how I should know better and be more responsible is also kind of weird if it's supposed to be a record, and that nearly every other note I've gotten has only been a description of what happened, but it doesn't really bother me.)
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by NecromancerAnne » #720655

I'll let the headmins know, but what about this as an alternative to the part you are concerned about? It's probably closer to what I'm getting at anyway
Given that your general trajectory would have moved the colossus into firing range of the station when chasing after you
Which hopefully conveys less malicious intent and more of a poor decision, and less likely to convince any future admin that you were trying to pull it into the station, which, now that I re-read it, I see your concern and wasn't actually what I meant to convey. Sorry about that.
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by gameaddict07 » #720694

NecromancerAnne wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:54 am I'll let the headmins know, but what about this as an alternative to the part you are concerned about? It's probably closer to what I'm getting at anyway
Given that your general trajectory would have moved the colossus into firing range of the station when chasing after you
Which hopefully conveys less malicious intent and more of a poor decision, and less likely to convince any future admin that you were trying to pull it into the station, which, now that I re-read it, I see your concern and wasn't actually what I meant to convey. Sorry about that.
I think that's a much more neutral description of what happened. I feel everything else stated in the note is accurate, so I'm satisfied with this being marked resolved if you are. Thanks for looking over this.
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Re: [NecromancerAnne] gameaddict07 - Colossus Hitting Shuttle on Ice Box

Post by Justice12354 » #720703

As requested by Anne in bus, I have edited the note to
In round 223419, an Ice Box round, activated a mining vent that contained a colossus right next to the escape shuttle. This resulted in the shuttle, and several occupants, being repeatedly shot by the colossus as he made a pass alongside it while chasing gameaddict07. Only veering away because he believed it to be the Syndicate Infiltrator. Given that your general trajectory would have moved the colossus into firing range of the station when chasing after you, and you chose to activate the vent and spawn the colossus while the station would still be in the evacuation procedures (and thus, the shuttle to be riddled with death bolts as it was), the fault lies with you if other people get hurt. Someone with your experience should know better and should act more responsibly.
Spoiler:
yttriums wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:13 am borg players shouldn't be able to ahelp. you signed up to play as a piece of equipment. this is like a table ahelping you for wrenching it
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