[cheshify] t3hsurge - banned for seeking headmin help

[t3hSurge]

BYOND account: T3hSurge

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
(x) - Server Ban
() - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length: 7 days
Ban/note reason: T3hsurge escalated a routine ahelp after an in-game incident(224652/5), wherein they chose to get heated at an admin who had done nothing questionable nor rude. Afterwards, they escalated the admin's ticket conduct to the headmin team, and the following investigation lead to not only discover that the complain had absolutely no merit, but that Surge has had a history of abusive language in ahelps in the past.<br>In the conversation with headmins, t3hsurge made no effort to understand their own fault in the situation, and continued to victimize themselves and get exceedingly upset. (cont)
Time ban was placed:
Server you were playing on when banned:
Round ID in which ban was placed:

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
(X) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(X) - The ban/note is not against the rules
(X) - The ban/note needs modification
(X) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:

Every now an then I get an ahelp or bwoink that feels one-sided or unempathetic. Like, afterwards I am left feeling more insecure about my gameplay and less confident in my understanding of the rules. My journey to address these feelings has led me to be banned. Talking about them in the admin feedback thread didn't help, and I tried to ask in the headmin debate if any candidates had read that post by messaging the debate host. Chesh was the host and seemed to not understand my question. Yesterday I was bwoinked over some valid IC escalation, and I found it upsetting. I knew it was mostly me, I knew the bwoink wasn't problemmatic, and I made that clear. I just wanted to talk to somebody at the top. Given the question Chesh didn't understand, I thought I could talk out my small frustrations with this ticket while also finally having a candid conversation with someone at the top who really knows the big picture. Or not, I didn't know. I still don't really understand how the admin system works.

I tried to start that sort of conversation over a discord PM with Chesh. Initially I was pulled into a private discord room with TBM and Dendy that I no longer have access to. For more than an hour Chesh broke down that singular bwoink while telling me to be quiet. By the time I had a forum to try to talk back I was just defending against this idea that I was trying to get an admin in trouble or something. It's more than a little ironic that sometimes I feel ignored and wronged by by admins, and when trying to talk to what I think is the most appropriate person I again end up feeling ignored and wronged.

I guess after the fact I can easily accept that I am getting way too mad at nothing. I probably should be more active as a player and antag and get bwoinked more often and get used to not answering them right away. I am getting the impression that I'm genuinely starting to generate resentments from the admin team. The direct message was not an admin complaint. It was a desire for casual, albeit impassioned, discussion with a real authority. Where my unresolved feelings don't end with "Admin has closed this ticket." After 2200k hours of playing /tg/ I was looking for my inside guy. A confidant. I was not escalating. Cheshify escalated it themself. I cannot open the private discord group but I was absolutely trying to self-discover fault and talk it through. The only truth in this ban is that I am not afraid to swear in a ticket. That being said, this is a big fucking pile of stupid you could have just not replied to my DM like Dendy didn't.

[Cheshify]

Here's the full note for context.

T3hsurge escalated a routine ahelp after an in-game incident(224652/5), wherein they chose to get heated at an admin who had done nothing questionable nor rude. Afterwards, they escalated the admin's ticket conduct to the headmin team, and the following investigation lead to not only discover that the complain had absolutely no merit, but that Surge has had a history of abusive language in ahelps in the past.
In the conversation with headmins, t3hsurge made no effort to understand their own fault in the situation, and continued to victimize themselves and get exceedingly upset.
This is a cooldown ban for you to take time to reflect on our discussion after you have calmed down, and to come back to the game with a clear head and more understanding of what is just normal admin procedure. Avoid further instances of this kind of behaviour.

[Cheshify]

So, a big component of this ban is your unacceptably toxic behaviour in tickets, and the discussion we had in our headmin cave. I'll be posting some tickets for reference, since your conduct is the matter of the ban.

This is the ticket you sent me a message about initially, one that you described as so awful and conduct breaching that I immediately went into adminbus and asked Waltertruck "what the fuck man" before I had actually seen it. In this ticket which we broke down in the headmincave, Waltertruck made absolutely no breach of conduct, was polite, and did absolutely nothing incorrect.

From Ticket #5 during round 224652 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2024-02-26 19:56:27: Ticket Opened by waltertruck: Heya, could you tell me what happened with cargo earlier?
2024-02-26 19:57:05: Reply from t3hsurge: yeah they picked a fight with me over calling the cargo shuttle and lost, and now they are doing time, they are violent and everyone else is busy so it's the best I could do
2024-02-26 19:59:07: Reply from waltertruck: Did you in fact call the shuttle without the cargo techs giving you permission to do it? You spaced the shuttle and they wanted you gone so they could do it themselves without someone interfering.<br />
Was there a good reason to go around all of them for this?
2024-02-26 19:59:46: Reply from t3hsurge: ok how would I know it would do that? them "wanting me gone" does what here? bwoink mid RP for what?
2024-02-26 19:59:52: Reply from waltertruck: I'm seeing them retaliate, yes, but having a science officer run in and start comnadeering the supply shuttle sucks ,especially when you have a mech and they kind of can't throw you out or even really report you to security since you ARE the officer in this case.
2024-02-26 20:01:18: Reply from waltertruck: What was your reasoning for calling the supply shuttle instead of waiting for them?
2024-02-26 20:01:30: Reply from t3hsurge: commandeering? I asked about my package twice and they sat there, so I called the shuttle. I am 100% not in the wrong here and they are escalating super hard off nothing against sec.
2024-02-26 20:02:32: Reply from t3hsurge: they go out of their way to start fucking IC drama and I get bwoinked guilty off the bat like this is just what they fucking want tis is upsetting
2024-02-26 20:02:43: Reply from waltertruck: They are escalating "super hard" as their opponent is an officer who can easily yell at the rest of security that cargo isn't to be trusted, and you're in a mech that you're not leaving, so they can't even cattleprod or shove you to try and get you out.
2024-02-26 20:03:55: Reply from t3hsurge: you're way overthinking this, I got impatient for a package and they chose combat and I'm getting yelled at it for fucking winning. they bonked you when I won so I could lose again and you're fucking playing right into it
2024-02-26 20:04:01: Reply from waltertruck: It's the same as with using lethals against a hulk as security, there's not much you can do to chase a mech out of your department than to hit it with an object in hopes the driver decides they would rahter not take the damage.
2024-02-26 20:04:30: Reply from waltertruck: Did you try asking either of the two cargo officers in security to help you out in this case?
2024-02-26 20:04:49: Reply from t3hsurge: you halted all IC handling
2024-02-26 20:05:00: Reply from t3hsurge: and treated me as guilty
2024-02-26 20:05:14: Reply from t3hsurge: when I'm clearly not
2024-02-26 20:05:55: Reply from waltertruck: Because you're in a mech that can't really have IC handling when you're saying over sec coms "they're gaslighting you", and because I have to stop the other guy as well from deciding to escalating to using a gun to shoot you out of the seat instead of trying to scare you off.
2024-02-26 20:06:20: Reply from waltertruck: Once again, did you try asking either officer who is attached to the cargo department to pick up your order for you?
2024-02-26 20:06:28: Reply from t3hsurge: look dude you stopped me
2024-02-26 20:06:45: Reply from waltertruck: I did't stop you from asking them to handle it, you'd already called the shuttle by that point.
2024-02-26 20:06:59: Reply from t3hsurge: don't point at something I said after trying to stop my fucking game to explain to you why I arrested two cargo who assaulted me over calling the cargo shuttle
2024-02-26 20:07:30: Reply from t3hsurge: the timing was terrible, and you started out like I was already in the wrong, god forbid I ever play fucking cop and arrest anybody
2024-02-26 20:07:53: Reply from t3hsurge: there was no other officer in cargo, ever
2024-02-26 20:08:15: Reply from t3hsurge: you just keep trying to find ways that I'm at fault, so go ahead and fuck me then
2024-02-26 20:08:45: Reply from waltertruck: These two cargo technicians wanted you out of cargo for calling the shuttle and spacing it, given you don't even have the access to prevent a spacing. You were also in a mech, which means that they cna't do anything like even try to shove you over and toss you out, which means tat trying to smash your mech is to be expected.<br />
<br />
You didn't even bother asking on sec comms if you have any cargo officers, you have two who could've actually cycled the shuttle and actually belong to the department.
2024-02-26 20:09:15: Reply from t3hsurge: another shit bwoink I have no recourse from, and I get the feeling you care for me about the same as bmon
2024-02-26 20:09:34: Reply from t3hsurge: I got in the mech way late in the fight, they did plenty you are mad trying to make me guilty
2024-02-26 20:09:53: Reply from t3hsurge: yeah let me talk mid-combat good advice, cuz I didn't try to explain it later
2024-02-26 20:10:24: Reply from waltertruck: Insulting another admin here is completely unnecessary, please just focus on this one.
2024-02-26 20:11:20: Reply from t3hsurge: this is a great bwoink you're doing a great job I look forward to you hating me in the future. Am I going to be punished now for defending myself and trying to handle it IC?
2024-02-26 20:12:35: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm so tired of there terrible bwoinks, the timing, combined with the attitude that doesn't convey an ounce of impartiality. Fucking joke dude you pissed me off congrats. Fuck me for trying for real dude I try harder than most and you hit me with this shit.
2024-02-26 20:14:23: Reply from waltertruck: Can you please just try to get a cargo officer to handle issues with the cargo shuttle in the future? The main gripe here is that they had a fairly valid reasoning as to why they decide to boot you out, being in the big stompy ech does mean that you get to not get kicked out every time, which frustrates other players in that from their perspective, they're effectively being tided by a security officer who doesn't want to wait for their order while cargo is waiting on selling something.
2024-02-26 20:15:43: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm not wrong, roll it back you bwoink me about 60 seconds after I put them in a cell with a three minute timer. Saying "what happened earlier" like these weren't real-time events. Then you fed them their excuse for escalation like I should have submitted for a rectal exam when I found out sending the shuttle upset them.
2024-02-26 20:17:27: Reply from waltertruck: Yes, I bwoinked you, because again from their perspective you had effectively tided them and then used your status as an officer to arrest them and turn them into the evil criminals who were detained in this situation.<br />
<br />
Do consider that anyone else using a mech to walk into cargo, cycle and space the shuttle, and then stun cargo when they try to throw them out would get arrested by security in that scenario.
2024-02-26 20:18:15: Reply from t3hsurge: I will make this clear to you again, most of the fight was on food, and hopping in the mech was my win condition. They used an ahelp to try to punish me and it worked. Cool. Because at the end of the day I didn't do anything wrong, sec overflow and crew kinda thin and tiding everywhere which is fine for the pop that's how it goes sometimes. It's kind of self-justifying to pull the "stay in the lane" card. I'm not constesting the escalation, I handled it IC. This however sucks and you need to know it sucks.
2024-02-26 20:19:06: Reply from waltertruck: Again, you even had the option f asking if any of your fellow officers worked cargo, but you chose to go i there first. If it was either of the officers who were resonsible for cargo's actions, they could've properly sealed the shuttle, and al failures on their part would be a skill issue.
2024-02-26 20:20:08: Reply from t3hsurge: who gives a fuck about cargo officers, they baited you into accusing me of doing something wrong, and you keep fucking doubling down on it
2024-02-26 20:20:21: Reply from waltertruck: To top it off, cycling the shuttle unprepared means that the conveyor belts all work, which in turn would space anything you did order in the process.
2024-02-26 20:20:44: Reply from t3hsurge: well maybe they should have fucking explaind that IC or called cargo shuttle for me
2024-02-26 20:21:00: Reply from t3hsurge: fuck you yeah I'm the bad guy, you're just like bmon
2024-02-26 20:21:29: Reply from t3hsurge: If I did something wrong then do something about it, if not leave me alone. Hate me silently thanks.
2024-02-26 20:21:38: Client disconnected
2024-02-26 20:46:35: <a>waltertruck</a>/(Ar-Leth Ssar) has created a note for T3hSurge<br />Asked to prioritize letting departmental officers deal with departmental issues over directly interfering as a seperate officer. In this case, cycled the shuttle without properly sealing it as he was a science officer, resulting in it being spaced and ejecting cargo from the automated conveyors sending it out the door inside. Did not ask if there was any cargo officers, let alone ask the cargo officers to deal with his order.
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

• By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/224652/5
• By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/224652/5

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.18.0


_______________________


You were indeed noted for this rightfully, because he had found you were out of line.
Let's review your reaction to waltertruck asking basic, routine, information-searching info:
You complained that you were being presumed guilty.
You claimed that you were only ahelped because you lost.
You said the ahelp ruined the RP because you HAD to immediately stop and answer the ticket.
You called it a shit bwoink and insulted bmon for some reason, to which Walter asked you politely to stop (You didn't)
You complained about every ahelp against you
You made yourself to be a victim
You claimed the ahelp was to punish you despite walter just asking simple questions that you could have said "one second!" to
You insisted that walter was doubling down on accusations
You made yourself out to be a victim and insulted bmon again
You made the claim that you were a victim and asked admins to stop ahelping you.

_______________________


So, in our investigation, we found even more tickets that were linked to this kind of unacceptable self-victimization and toxicity. This post is getting too long so I'll just rapid fire them afterwards.

[Cheshify]

Oh also this ban was agreed upon by 3/4 headmins, so really it's a QC ban, but we can go with me answering it for now unless someone else wants to butt in.
Remember, you brought this up to headmin level and got headmin levels of scrutiny. You wasted our time for 7 hours in a headmincave where:

In the conversation with headmins, t3hsurge made no effort to understand their own fault in the situation, and continued to victimize themselves and get exceedingly upset.

[dendydoom]

hello. i was directly involved in this, as were the other headmins and i will be giving my side of what happened.

my first exposure to this was seeing your feedback post. you and anyone else are fully entitled to leave feedback with your thoughts and feelings on how admins perform. in your feedback it was insinuated that a breach of conduct had happened, so i took the matter seriously and spent multiple evenings diving tickets between you and the admin you took issue with, tickets they had with others to compare their tone and conduct, and i logdived a number of rounds where they had taken tickets for you and others to try and determine if there was a pattern of biased rulings or conduct violations.

i did not find anything that pointed towards this. all i found was an admin who was trying to perform their role to the standard that they were trained, and in response oftentimes came up against a very aggressive and emotional player for what amounts to basic and procedural information gathering to make an informed and fair ruling.

granted, here i will admit that i did not immediately get back to you on this, because as part of my investigation i found your tone and attitudes in tickets towards admins to be quite angry and emotional, and this concerned me. i wanted to spend some time thinking it over, talking to admins, the other headmins, and trying to deduce a plan of action on how best to address this and try to help you while also not asking our admins to put up with inappropriate aggression in ahelps when they aren't doing anything wrong. if an admin truly fucks up, then i would understand someone being upset at getting messed around and having their time wasted. but these procedures are expected of admins, because we taught them to do it that way and we hold them to a standard that will get them in trouble if they're found to be breaking it.

it is worth considering the fact that admins could be taking a neutral and matter-of-fact approach to resolving tickets with you because you always get upset and angry. it is quite frankly a testament to their patience that they did not snap at you. there is never a point where their conduct was inappropriate, but yours is.

i spent over an hour in a discussion with you trying to respectfully and calmly explain this to you. you did not listen once. you made demands, refused responsibility for your behaviour and aggressive attitude, cursed at us and blamed us for anything and everything you could, ignored everything you were being told and continued to get more and more upset the more i said anything. you have a very concerning habit of taking things which are not personal extremely personally and in doing so you completely stop listening to all reason and become very angry and aggressive. the other headmins also tried to speak to you. the total amount of time spent on this one conversation with all of us trying to reason with you was almost 7 hours.

so, in the end, faced with someone who was impossible to talk to and very angry, i disengaged from the conversation. i put in my vote to apply a week cooldown ban for you so that you could calm down, re-read our discussion and hopefully reflect on this issue and come to terms with your role in this situation. if you do not have access to our conversation, then i will look into correcting this, because i feel that it is important for you to be able to view it and read it if you feel so inclined. other than that, i am done talking to you over this matter. i have said all i have to say, and i have done all i can to help you. whether or not you learn anything from this is entirely up to you.

ultimately i am not your mother or your therapist, i just work at the game store where we run sessions of the silly spaceman game for our members. i do not have to put up with your aggression, and i do not expect admins to put up with it either when they have done nothing other than perform their role to the standard we ask of them. if you cannot participate without getting unreasonably upset and angry at what is routine information gathering from admins who need to ask a few questions to understand your side of the story to make a fair and informed ruling from time to time, then the fact of the matter is that we cannot accommodate your needs as a player and you should find somewhere else to play. both for your own wellbeing and the wellbeing of our admins. this is not personal, as i tried to tell you many times.

thanks for your time, and best of luck with everything.

[Cheshify]

Here's another ticket where you're asked a pretty simple question and given a pretty simple recourse (don't loot medbay corpses) and you also make yourself out to be a victim, ragequit early, and are noted for toxicity in ahelps.

From Ticket #5 during round 223843 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2024-02-12 23:15:11: Ticket Opened by waltertruck: Heya, did you take that armor off of a corpse in medical?
2024-02-12 23:15:30: Reply from t3hsurge: Yes, I think it was the husked RD
2024-02-12 23:16:14: Reply from waltertruck: Alrighty, I'll just get straight to the point and say please don't just loot dead people in medical so that you can wear their armor.
2024-02-12 23:17:16: Reply from t3hsurge: It nearly killed me and was harmfulish I was finding the source of the issue wdym. I'm not like hard keeping it and the RD certainly isn't up yet prolly
2024-02-12 23:17:49: Reply from t3hsurge: like, idgi for real I clowned around with it a bit but took it off to stop the weaponized everything???
2024-02-12 23:17:56: Reply from waltertruck: I mean, it only looks bad when you steal from a corpse and walk off while wearing the armor, I can't really glean that your plan is "give it back" when you've just left while wearing it.
2024-02-12 23:18:23: Reply from waltertruck: And if it's really an issue with him using it to weaponize everything, it's better to go scream at sec about it than taking it to wear yourself.
2024-02-12 23:18:27: Reply from t3hsurge: yo for real what are you talking about this isn't some glamor item this is harmful en masse I've never really seen this armor before
2024-02-12 23:19:21: Reply from t3hsurge: I just left medical I've had no time IC to handle this at all. I really do not appreciate the tone of this bwoink, I haven't done anything bad AT ALL.
2024-02-12 23:19:58: Reply from t3hsurge: This armor nearly killed me and was harming everybody in medbay it's ghost shit like for real what the hell?
2024-02-12 23:20:26: Reply from waltertruck: It doesn't really matter if it's traitor loot or not, running off with an item on a dead body and wearing it yourself looks pretty bad.
2024-02-12 23:21:20: Reply from t3hsurge: it's not traitor loot it's a research item that nearly killed me and harmed a bunch of people this bwoink is fucking ugly you're like justifying your interpretation instead of modifying it based on WHAT I'M TELLING YOU VERY CEARLY
2024-02-12 23:21:51: Reply from t3hsurge: like, for real if you do not get my explanation please get another admin in on it or something
2024-02-12 23:22:56: Reply from waltertruck: If they're being an issue with it and using it to harm everybody in an area, please ahelp about it rather than switching your tone to yelling through text that it's okay and that you can in fact loot it to wear yourself instead.
2024-02-12 23:24:43: Reply from t3hsurge: they were DEAD it was activating while they were dead during firefighting and in medbay it was super harmful I took it to figure out what the fuck it even was, clowned around with it for a couple minutes and you bowink me going Y U LOOT BODY?!! like, you know I'm not out here being a shitter but the tone from the getgo was like a fucking tribunal where I was already guilty
2024-02-12 23:25:06: Reply from t3hsurge: like, what is this bwoink is bmon logged into your account?
2024-02-12 23:26:53: Reply from waltertruck: Yes in fact, I was working off the information that a guy had his stuff taken and that someone was now running around with it on, and then the only response I got was immediate hostility instead of explaining that the dead body in particular was causing the issue, not that it was activating while he was alive. <br />
Your tone is also doing you absolutely zero favors during this, as you could just simply have started with a calmer explanation of "the dead body still activates the armor and I took it since it was impossible to treat correctly" rather than accusing me of being another admin and calling it a tribunal.
2024-02-12 23:28:22: Reply from t3hsurge: I spend all day playing some of the best NT-aligned MRP gameplay in my opinion, and today was an especially selfless day for the sake of the rounds and event and good vibes, my prayer goes unanwered, and then while figuring out that some sci armor I've never seen in 2000 hours of gameplay nearly kills me and hurts people in medbay and while figuring that out you start his bwoink. Fuck me man right? You treated me like guilty thieving shit from the start don't backpedal now.
2024-02-12 23:29:21: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm not going to brown nose either now that you've figured it all out. Sorry for fucking existing.
2024-02-12 23:29:31: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm not wrong.
2024-02-12 23:29:48: Client disconnected
2024-02-12 23:43:53: <a>WalterTruck</a>/(Ar-Leth Ssar) has created a message for T3hSurge<br />I'm not noting you off it or anything because once you explained to context fully it was a valid reason to take off the armor, but I need you to understand that you should try to put some more effort into explaining the situation fully before jumping to insulting me and an unrelated admin. Giving me the partial explanations that "It's not a problem" "It was hurting people" and "I've never seen this before" alongside the fact that you were wearing it lead me to the conclusion that you didn't like him using it earlier, so you took it off his body to use for yourself. Once you actually fully explained how his corpse was doing it and you took it off of him, I could actually operate with full context off your end and say that it was justified for the situation.<br />
<br />
Additionally, it isn't "backpedaling" to change your view on a situation once you have context, and neither is it "brown-nosing" to simply speak in a tone that isn't fully aggressive.
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

• By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/223843/5
• By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/223843/5

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.18.0

[Cheshify]

Here's one where you're being toxic towards other players.

From Ticket #3 during round 223421 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2024-02-05 22:53:13: Ticket Opened by t3hsurge: hey can you tell Rhials to stop being a cunt for no reason? all this self-justifying shit, we're prepping for war and I thought for a second I'd show my esword, then rhials hangs around me to pickpocket me while I'm afk. I can't stand being punished for socializing there was no reason for fucking any of this.
2024-02-05 22:59:30: Client disconnected
2024-02-05 23:00:41: Marked as IC issue by NecromancerAnne
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

• By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/223421/3
• By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/223421/3

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.18.0

[Cheshify]

Truth be told I have more to post but it's actually kind of bumming me out now. I think the examples can help establish a history, and give credence to a ban.

Surge, please, seriously consider this. There's a common factor in all of these ahelps and situations, and it's not the admins. You're the one doing this shit, acting like a victim and being incapable of handling the most basic of ahelps. Please use this week to reflect.

[Justice12354]

Hey. It seems that at this point your ban has already expired. However, as you might expect, the note will stay if there isn't a successful appeal.

Do you wish to resume this appeal or would you like for it to be closed?

I will be closing it in roughly 72 hours if no reply is given.