Bmon|xzero314 -Is The Captain a part of Security for RPR 4? Note Appeal

[xzero314]

BYOND account:xzero314

Ban/note type: Note

note length: Indefinite

Note Reason:
As the captain chased down a heretic with the rest of sec who's location was called out by the AI. No life was directly under threat nor did the AI claim anything of the such. Since you didn't quite understand that RPR4 applies to the captain when I first spoke with you this note is more of a reminder to you that you are expected to follow RPR4 unless you have a valid reason not to under one of the listed precendents of that rule. It's best to leave chasing down antags to security, especially when there is a staffed sec team and the round is calm.

Server you were playing on: Manuel

Round ID:224825

Why are you making this appeal?
I would like to see the note overturned. I also believe that the note is not reflective of my understanding of the situation.

The Appeal:

So the note itself and the reason that it was left was cited as me having broken RPR 4 in hunting the heretic to engineering. I would like to open this appeal with the full ticket and our discussion that we had.


From Ticket #4 during round 224825 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2024-02-29 21:25:11: Ticket Opened by bmon: Hi there. What lead you to being in engineering?
2024-02-29 21:25:57: Reply from xzero314: the ai said rubs was in engineering. Rubs was also called out as a heretic by two heads so I was using my access to help sec get in and help the chase
2024-02-29 21:26:12: Reply from xzero314: They even specified "emitter room"
2024-02-29 21:26:30: Reply from bmon: Why are you as the captain dealing with that?
2024-02-29 21:27:45: Reply from xzero314: Hold on here. Am I not allowed to as the captain of the station try to help deal with the threats that come up? this was like a standard thing. Rubs tried to kill my hop
2024-02-29 21:28:11: Ticket Opened by xzero314: The ai also said they suspect I am a target
2024-02-29 21:28:28: Reply from bmon: It's a lot less excusable when you have a staff security team and the round has been rather slow
2024-02-29 21:29:37: Reply from xzero314: I never had rubs ordered to be executed and I actually on my life was going to be telling sec to implant them and send them on their way. Attempted murder and all that. Trust me I do take the round into account as Captain
2024-02-29 21:30:30: Reply from bmon: What? This has never been about anyone ordering their execution. The issue is you as the captain are acting as security, this is an RP Rule 4 issue.
2024-02-29 21:32:13: Reply from xzero314: I honestly disagree. The captain is part of the security chain and I was also signalled out as one of their targets. They also attacked multiple of my heads of staff. I was entirely justified to take action. Its not like I busted out the antique.
2024-02-29 21:32:40: Reply from bmon: Well I am here to tell you that the captain indeed not security, this is pretty well established.
2024-02-29 21:33:02: Ticket Opened by xzero314: I also didnt just drop everything to actively hunt them so thats not true. I went to where I heard an active heretic murdering was going down
2024-02-29 21:34:22: Reply from xzero314: I think my IC reasons were sufficient. I was signalled as one of their targets and they attacked the hop and CE. heads I am responsible for. I will keep it in mind however as I understand the Captain isnt meant to chase down everything that pops up and the issue you have is that it was a green shift.
2024-02-29 21:34:23: Reply from bmon: It's not your job to be chasing down threats unless it falls under one of the precendents under RPR4 that allow you to. This wasn't the case in this situation and you have a staffed security team, let them deal with threats, this is a very calm round.
2024-02-29 21:36:36: Reply from xzero314: Its also not like I am actively forcing myself into the sec team and hovering sec comms and wearing a bunch of sec gear. This was very much so a "somebody is being killed in engie and I am not doing anything else at this moment so I am going to check it out"
2024-02-29 21:37:56: Reply from bmon: Who was being killed in engineering?
2024-02-29 21:38:20: Reply from xzero314: Nobody actually was sorry that was just my thought process is what the quotes were for
2024-02-29 21:39:55: Reply from bmon: Okay, that's why this is an RPR4 issue. You weren't directly trying to save someone they were killing. That is however one of the precendents that would allow you to try to stop them but that isn't the case here
2024-02-29 21:41:51: Reply from xzero314: I understand the issue you have. I was under the impression the captain was "security" under rp rule 4 and I also think I had sufficient ic reasoning to go after them since the ai said I was a target. Also not even like a minute or two before this the CE was talking shaky on comms saying rubs was a heretic so when I heard rubs was back in engineering naturally the first thing I thought was the ce is being attacked. I will keep in mind from now on that the Captain is not security. I never intended to remove rubs from the round either.
2024-02-29 21:44:04: Ticket Opened by xzero314: I really dont think I broke the rules here. I think my ic reasoning was pretty fair. They had attacked several heads and the ai said they were targgeting me. I can understand calling me out as cringe for that though since its a green shift. I did have that in mind though I have no intention of removing them from the round I learned from my previous time being talked to over executing people
2024-02-29 21:46:30: Reply from bmon: The captain is given a lot more leeway compared to the rest of the crew but they are not security, you can't go chasing down threats as the captain unless it is in direct defense of someones life.<br />
<br />
Also the CE never had a "stuttery voice" or whatever you're saying, he did yell they were a heretic but that's probably because he saw them in the mainhallway with funny cloak I think? Hard to tell.
2024-02-29 21:48:25: Reply from xzero314: Roo'BS WITTH R'OMEROL...huuuhhh...Ich THE HERETI'I'C" and one message after that. My intent was very much so "somebody is being killed" If you were watching the encounter you would have even seen that as soon as I saw that wasnt the case I backed off and the CE handled it.
2024-02-29 21:49:16: Reply from bmon: That's a drunk stutter lmao<br />
<br />
guess it just doesn't show up in the chat logs
2024-02-29 21:50:08: Reply from xzero314: OK well you see where I am coming from here. I swear on my life I am not playing captain to just hunt valids with gamer gear and made every shift a white shift. I genuinly understand the concern.
2024-02-29 21:50:40: Reply from bmon: Your gear doesn't matter, it's the intention and actions. The captain is already well armed by default.
2024-02-29 21:52:33: Reply from xzero314: In all of the many rounds ive played Ive never been even hinted at that the captain shouldent be going after threats with security. heck I can recall my first or second time as spy the captain was waiting with sec in ambush for me in the MINING BASE. I fully thought the Captain was considered part of sec for rp rull 4 and I think even if we take me being captain out of the equation are people not allowed to try to deal with a heretic the ai has directly said is targetting them?
2024-02-29 21:53:17: Reply from bmon: Ahelp it! The captain is not apart of security and RPR4 applies to them.
2024-02-29 21:53:53: Reply from bmon: There are however some situations where it'd be more valid (such as having no security officers) but again that isn't the case here.
2024-02-29 21:54:50: Reply from xzero314: Ok but I was working on incomplete information that was reasonable. I thought somebody was being killed and I also thought the heretic was targetting me directrly
2024-02-29 21:56:39: Reply from bmon: Not really, no. At no point did the AI say they were killing someone.
2024-02-29 21:57:11: Ticket Opened by xzero314: No the ai said "They are targetting Clara" I made the mistake of thinking somebody was being killed in engineering when the ai all caps reported them in there
2024-02-29 21:57:22: Reply from bmon: Also not really sure why the AI thought you were their target? That's a rather wild claim for someone who can't really see targets
2024-02-29 21:57:42: Reply from bmon: Either way nothing they did indicated that you were their target
2024-02-29 21:57:42: Reply from xzero314: I have no idea. I assumed the ai had noticed them stalking me
2024-02-29 21:59:25: Reply from xzero314: You can argue all day that my ic reasonings were wrong but I had a resonable belief in them at the time that I was being targgetting by the heretic directly and that does allow me to take more direct action against them does it not?
2024-02-29 22:05:20: Reply from bmon: I am almost 100% sure the AI was highly mistaken about that or made that call off of very flimsy information. It's not enough for you to go out of your way to start chasing them unless they've wronged you
2024-02-29 22:05:25: Ticket Opened by xzero314: I have explained myself as best as I can. I really dont know what else to say. I wasnt just hunting for the sake of valid or "because I can" Rp rule four precedents also say "Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area." What is the captains reasonable play area here? the bridge or the entire station? There is also "The dead dog litmus test: Players may hunt specific threats or antagonists who have identifiably done something to wrong that particular player"I thought theyd attacked both the CE AND the HOP. I get giving me a yell and going hey dude thats kinda lame dont do that again. Which I wont be doing again. I really dont think I broke any rules here that warrent some kind of punishment
2024-02-29 22:06:06: Reply from bmon: It's not to act like security and they didn't wrong you in any way unless I have missed something here
2024-02-29 22:06:38: Reply from xzero314: I dont see how attacking my command members isnt wronging me personall in the same way attacking a pet would be
2024-02-29 22:06:53: Reply from xzero314: They are my reesponibility
2024-02-29 22:07:28: Reply from bmon: they didnt and even then no that's still not a valid reason unless you are directly trying to save thier life or they have gotten out of control where it has become a major global threat
2024-02-29 22:08:43: Reply from xzero314: But I WAS TRYING TO SAVE SOMEBODYS LIFE! as soon as I had a moment to judge the situation and saw that nobody was being attacked I backed off and the one that captured them was the ce basically on their own with sec helping
2024-02-29 22:09:21: Reply from bmon: The CE rushed into the room with you to kick their ass, what life needed saving exactly?<br />
<br />
Like the whole thing- I watched it play out
2024-02-29 22:09:48: Reply from xzero314: Thats what I am saying. I got there. saw rubs started shooting. saw that the ce wasnt infact being killed and stopped shooting and watched
2024-02-29 22:10:33: Reply from xzero314: I even switched off lethal which I was on at first by mistake
2024-02-29 22:11:39: Reply from bmon: That's not really what played out though, at least from my recollection.<br />
<br />
You rushed into the SM room with sec and the CE all together and started blasting Rubs. Again, you should have left it to security. The CE has more of an excuse since it's his department but you? no.
2024-02-29 22:14:06: Reply from xzero314: This is so ridiculous at this point. I think I have properly expalined why my ic reasons were good enough. You said the ai didnt have good enoug hreason to say I am a target but that is also an ic issue. all of this is an ic issue. I thought sombody was being murdered so I went. I thought I was a target of rubs so I had apersonal stake in making sure he was dealt with. Both of these points have a solid grounded in reason. YES you can argue that its only becuase I am dumb that I mistook the ces drunking speak for being attacked but thats still an IC ISSUE
2024-02-29 22:16:25: Ticket Opened by xzero314: Also Rubs still just ascended. my being involved did not end thier antagonist run or cause the round to suffer. Both of which are things I had in mind.
2024-02-29 22:18:31: Reply from bmon: Alright I am done here, this is an RPR 4 issue. As the captain you should leave it to security, they were at the time more than capable of dealing with it themselves and you shouldn't have interjected as the captain. You are not security, do not chase down antagonists unless there is a valid reason to be doing so under one of the precedents of RPR4.<br />
<br />
Also them ascending juset now is mostly due to security not really doing a good job at perma brigging them, oh well, doesn't really matter or pretain to the point I am trying to hammer home here for you.
2024-02-29 22:24:17: Reply from xzero314: I fully understand the point of why contacted me. I Will be taking it into account and I understand why you took issue with this and cited rp rule 4. I admit that I thought the captain was part of security for rp rule 4 however that is not the reason I took action. Even if incorrect in the end I had a reason to believe that somebody was being killed and so I took action. I also had a reason to believe I was a direct target. You stated that as the captain if I think somebody is being killed it allows me to take action. I thought somebody was being killed. After I learned I was wrong on the scene I stood back
2024-02-29 22:26:51: Reply from bmon: No one made any claims that anyone was being killed so it's a bit question mark for me.<br />
<br />
The AI saying they "think" you are their target is also a very flimsy reason to go out of your way to hunt them
2024-02-29 22:29:26: Reply from xzero314: a failuie at deductive reasoning at my part. I thought the CEs slurring speech was them being attacked by rubs and the ai called out their location in engineering in all caps. Its reasonable that I thought the ce was being killed. I think its unfair for you to just rule the ai saying I am a target isnt enough. I was told by the all seeing eye I am a target so I acted with that in mind
2024-02-29 22:30:32: Reply from bmon: Yeah the AI made a very poor judgement call but again unless they've taken action against you you shouldn't taking action against them
2024-02-29 22:31:05: Reply from bmon: Also key to this they said "think" not "you are"
2024-02-29 22:31:59: Reply from xzero314: There is the also the whole "This can also be applied to an assault of a character you've had significant interactions with, in the current round," I was in the middle of getting ready to give the ce a medal for showing up and saving the sm and then I get the impression they were just attacked right after arriving and saving the sm.
2024-02-29 22:32:32: Reply from xzero314: I had alot of ic reasoning for going after rubs even if it all turned out to be not correct due to working on limited info
2024-02-29 22:33:11: Reply from bmon: Really grasping at straws imo, that's not really the point of that part of the rule, and rubs didn't really wrong the CE besides them hacking into their department
---- No Further Messages ----



My main points.
Firstly: I disagree with the reason stated in for the note being left

Secondly; I think that you dismissed very valid in character reason for me to be going after the heretic DESPITE RPR4.

Third: Was I even breaking RPR4 at all?

I have played a lot of captain and security. I am not perfect by any means but I do always make a effort to keep the state of the round in mind when playing as these roles and handling antagonists. As I see it, the main point of your note is "Since you didn't quite understand that RPR4 applies to the captain when I first spoke with you this note is more of a reminder to you that you are expected to follow RPR4 unless you have a valid reason not to under one of the listed precedents of that rule."
From what I understand the point you are trying to get across with this note is "Why is the captain hunting a heretic on a green star with a staffed sec team" I think during our conversation I made it clear I understood why you had issues with that. My argument was and is that I had sufficient in character reason to be hunting this heretic despite being wrong about the captain being part of the security team (an entire other debate). The Captain and sec generally should be keeping in mind "if we get rid of all the Antags the round becomes boring and everybody loses"

We could probably discuss forever about the Duty and role of the Captain. What is and isnt their direct duty? A large part of why I felt it needed to be on top of the heretic situation despite the green star and why I think its entirely justified for me to have gone after this heretic is the AI saying they thought the heretic was targeting me directly. They said as much on sec comms and and I chalked it up to the ai being able to see more than I can "so obviously they saw the heretic is stalking me waiting to get me" was my thought process here. Not something youd be super cool letting go even without being the cap or security and a fairly grounded in round IC reason to be wanting to get this heretic.

At the time that the ai called out the heretics location. I was under the belief that the heretic had already attacked TWO of my heads of staff. It is true I was wrong about part of this. Only one head had been attacked so far (the hop). The CE had not been attacked yet. I had a good IC reason to believe so. I mistook the CE's drunken slurs on comms (What they were saying on comms is important here. They were slurring out the identity of the heretic so it isn't even that insane of a mistake of mine to have made) for actively being attacked by said heretic. You dismissed my point about this during the ticket. I had thought two of my heads of staff were attacked. Is the command department not my responsibility? This from my point of view involved me personally since "hey they've already gotten two and gotten away whos to say sec will be able to stop the next one? Whos to say I am not next?"

You also dismissed my actions in engineering and my restraint. From what I gather and please feel free to tell me if this is not the case. You seemed to give the impression that because when I arrived in engineering and the ce was not under attack at the very moment that I shouldn't have been there at all. Well that was all stuff I was learning and acting on in the moment. Arriving in the sm room I completely missed the ce in the "right if front of my face section" and carried on to the emitter room where the heretic was and started blasting. Then the Ce comes into the scene and sec starts coming in from the flank. At that point I just watched. The CE and Sec handled it and then you boinked me and we spent the rest of the round discussing this.

Another reason for me making this appeal is I was encouraged to by another admin (that did NOT HAVE THE ENTIRE CONTEXT) who disagreed with the idea of the Captain not being part of security as per RPR4. The Captain gets a mindshield and is meta protected from rolling Antag. I am holding myself to the standard that all sec players should be playing by so am I not a member of the security of the station?

So to summarize. I think the reason you stated you left the note at all isnt true, I still am understanding of why I had to argue an IC reason for this given the context of the captain not being excused from RPR4. AND even if I was incorrect about the Captain being allowed to act as security (I certainly hold myself to sec standards as cap) then I had IC REASON to go after this heretic and thus this note has no reason to be placed.

At the end the ticket you stated you think I am grasping at straws but from my point of view it was the opposite. It felt like I was coming up with justifications one after another only for them to be hand waived as "not good enough" despite all of my actions having IC backing.

[Archie700]

Logs:

The original attack on the HoP

Code: Select all

[2024-02-29 21:18:45.544] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) cast the spell Mansus Grasp. (Head of Personnel's Office (105,119,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:46.115] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) attacked Joster730/(Anna Histamine) with Mansus Grasp (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 100)  (Head of Personnel's Office (105,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:46.119] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) cast the touch spell Mansus Grasp on Joster730/(Anna Histamine) with Mansus Grasp (NEWHP: 90)  (Head of Personnel's Office (105,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:46.929] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) attacked Joster730/(Anna Histamine) with �void blade (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 70)  (Head of Personnel's Office (105,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:47.900] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 98.1)  (Head of Personnel's Office (106,114,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:47.969] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) kicked Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (NEWHP: 70)  (Head of Personnel's Office (105,115,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:50.463] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 98.1)  (Central Primary Hallway (104,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:50.467] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 98.1)  (Central Primary Hallway (104,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:50.525] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) attacked [�Central Primary Hallway firelock hhPf3] with the �void blade (Central Primary Hallway (105,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:50.979] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) shoved Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (NEWHP: 98.1)  (Central Primary Hallway (104,111,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:51.128] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the laser from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 98.1)  (Central Primary Hallway (103,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:51.338] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the laser (NEWHP: 98.1)  (Central Primary Hallway (103,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:51.596] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) attacked [�Central Primary Hallway firelock fig8w] with the �void blade (Central Primary Hallway (105,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:51.755] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the laser (NEWHP: 80.6)  (Central Primary Hallway (102,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:18:52.167] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the laser from Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 63.1)  (Central Primary Hallway (102,112,4))

HoP calling for help and the CE both spotting the heretic and blacking out while drunk

Code: Select all

[2024-02-29 21:19:19.778] [2024-02-29 21:18:58.934] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS HERETIC" (Central Primary Hallway (107,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:03.158] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "FUCK EM UP" (Central Primary Hallway (107,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:12.544] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "What how" (Lesser Aft Maintenance (162,102,3))
[2024-02-29 21:19:13.064] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "heretic" (Starboard Primary Hallway (131,128,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:13.693] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "May I have kudzu planted on my sat?" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:13.694] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) (HOLOPAD in Hydroponics (130,133,3)) "May I have kudzu planted on my sat?" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:19.778] GAME-SAY: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) "hop?" (Medbay Central (145,121,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:20.977] GAME: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) has teleported from (Medbay Treatment Center (145,117,4)) to (Medbay Treatment Center (142,117,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:24.819] GAME-SAY: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) "you ok?" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:32.504] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "Rubs With Romerol is a heretic and tried to kill me!" (Medbay Treatment Center (142,117,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:33.453] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS THE HERETIC" (Cargo Lobby (93,119,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:45.186] GAME: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) has teleported from (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4)) to (Medbay Treatment Center (147,115,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:53.469] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) points at the floor (Central Primary Hallway (104,140,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:53.668] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) points at the floor (Central Primary Hallway (102,140,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:53.823] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) points at the �Central Primary Hallway firelock KtJQO (Central Primary Hallway (101,140,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:54.037] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) points at the �Central Primary Hallway firelock KtJQO (Central Primary Hallway (100,140,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:54.192] GAME-EMOTE: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) points at the �Central Primary Hallway firelock KtJQO (Central Primary Hallway (99,140,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:58.415] GAME: Xzero314/(Clara White) has teleported from (Medbay Treatment Center (145,118,4)) to (Teleporter Room (123,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:04.872] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "IM BLACKI" (Cargo Office (85,121,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:09.522] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "HELP ING BLACKOUT OUT" (Cargo Office (85,121,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:12.479] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "BLACKING" (Cargo Office (87,119,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:13.354] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "OUT" (Cargo Office (87,119,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:17.685] GAME-EMOTE: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) points at the floor (Central Primary Hallway (104,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:19.857] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "BLACKING OUT" (Central Primary Hallway (104,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:21.266] GAME-SAY: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) "AI, locate John Davinski" (Brig Overlook (112,169,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:21.984] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "MAKE SURE" (Central Primary Hallway (104,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:24.152] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "I DONT" (Central Primary Hallway (104,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:28.179] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "go" (Central Primary Hallway (118,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:38.661] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "Medbay" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:38.773] GAME: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) has teleported from (Central Primary Hallway (98,114,4)) to (Security Post - Cargo Bay (93,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:41.445] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "Just walked in" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:41.620] GAME: Xzero314/(Clara White) has teleported from (Bridge (105,134,4)) to (Security Office (108,185,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:42.748] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "thank" (Medbay Treatment Center (146,114,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:45.430] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "ai open" (Security Post - Cargo Bay (91,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:45.714] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "fuck" (Medbay Treatment Center (146,114,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:50.372] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "RUBS CARGO" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:56.174] GAME-EMOTE: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) coughs! (Central Primary Hallway (128,128,4))
[2024-02-29 21:20:59.357] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "FUCKING LUCK" (Cargo Lobby (92,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:00.198] GAME-EMOTE: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) coughs! (Central Primary Hallway (126,111,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:00.684] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "HONESTLY" (Cargo Lobby (92,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:02.441] GAME: Xzero314/(Clara White) has teleported from (Brig (101,164,3)) to (Teleporter Room (124,117,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:04.651] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "COME OT CARGO" (Security Post - Cargo Bay (93,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:06.750] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "HERETIC" (Security Post - Cargo Bay (92,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:08.092] GAME: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) has teleported from (Cargo Lobby (92,121,4)) to (Supermatter Engine Room (117,59,4))

The actual fight

Code: Select all

[2024-02-29 21:20:44.515] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) cast the spell Mansus Grasp. (Central Primary Hallway (96,113,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:00.058] ATTACK: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the laser from Security Post - Cargo Bay (NEWHP: 75)  (Security Post - Cargo Bay (93,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:17.796] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) attacked [security camera] with the wirecutters (Supermatter Engine Room (119,57,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:16.276] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the laser from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (110,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:16.748] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the laser from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (107,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:18.184] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (109,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:19.073] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (107,57,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:19.912] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (108,55,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:20.368] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (109,55,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:21.151] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [plating] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (108,55,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:21.536] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (117,59,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:22.373] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (109,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:23.454] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [Emitter Room] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (113,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:23.722] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) shot Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 90.3)  (Supermatter Engine Room (113,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:25.141] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [reinforced floor] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (117,58,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:25.665] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) shot Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 90.3)  (Supermatter Engine Room (117,60,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:26.124] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) cast the spell Cloak of Shadow. (Supermatter Engine Room (122,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:26.228] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:26.731] ATTACK: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) permanently shocked [Supermatter Engine Room] (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:27.258] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:27.459] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) shoved Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (122,68,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:27.461] ATTACK: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) unshocked [Supermatter Engine Room] (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:27.468] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:27.713] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:28.021] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:28.762] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:28.945] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:29.191] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam from Supermatter Engine Room (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:29.395] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) shot Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (119,63,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:31.335] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (123,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:31.847] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:32.735] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the satchel. (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:32.782] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) attempted to handcuff Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (123,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:33.141] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) is pickpocketing Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the wirecutters (left) (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:34.622] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the void cloak. (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:35.959] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) handcuffed Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (123,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:36.644] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the satchel. (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:37.064] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the wirecutters. (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:38.418] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the void cloak. (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:38.566] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) grabbed Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) passive grab (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (123,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:38.954] ATTACK: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 75)  (Supermatter Engine Room (121,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:26:08.551] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) flashed(AOE) Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the flash (NEWHP: 75)  (Lesser Aft Maintenance (179,106,3))
[2024-02-29 21:26:09.963] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) flashed(targeted) Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the flash (NEWHP: 75)  (Lesser Aft Maintenance (178,104,3))
[2024-02-29 21:26:11.362] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) grabbed Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) passive grab (NEWHP: 75)  (Lesser Aft Maintenance (178,104,3))
[2024-02-29 21:26:13.289] ATTACK: Lizardslizards/(Ripp Buffington) (mob_3233) stun attacked Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) with the stun baton (BUFFINGTON) (NEWHP: 75)  (Lesser Aft Maintenance (179,102,3))
[2024-02-29 21:26:16.607] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) pulled from WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) with Ripp Buffington (NEWHP: 100)  (Lesser Aft Maintenance (179,103,3))
[2024-02-29 21:26:16.609] ATTACK: Lizardslizards/(Ripp Buffington) (mob_3233) grabbed Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) passive grab (NEWHP: 75)  (Lesser Aft Maintenance (178,102,3))
[2024-02-29 21:26:48.596] ATTACK: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) pulled from Lizardslizards/(Ripp Buffington) with Jebediah Hawkins (NEWHP: 100)  (Aft Starboard Maintenance (177,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:26:48.598] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) grabbed Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) passive grab (NEWHP: 75)  (Aft Starboard Maintenance (178,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:28:01.124] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) grabbed Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) passive grab (NEWHP: 75)  (Armory (105,179,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:05.929] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the insulated gloves. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:07.619] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the black shoes. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:08.662] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the welding helmet. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:08.959] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the insulated gloves. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:08.971] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the black shoes. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:09.776] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of Rubs-With-Romerol (Assistant). (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:13.773] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the welding helmet. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:14.699] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of Rubs-With-Romerol (Assistant). (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:25.107] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is stripping Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the grey jumpsuit. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:30.136] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has stripped Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) of the grey jumpsuit. (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:30.751] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is putting the prison jumpsuit on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:33.364] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has put the prison jumpsuit on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol). (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:47.329] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is putting the satchel on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:49.985] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has put the satchel on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol). (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:55.846] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is putting the orange shoes on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:29:58.358] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has put the orange shoes on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol). (Transfer Centre (107,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:30:16.134] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) is putting Prisoner #13-004's ID Card (Prisoner) on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (Transfer Centre (110,172,3))
[2024-02-29 21:30:18.536] ATTACK: WhataTerribleUserName/(Jebediah Hawkins) (mob_3184) has put Prisoner #13-004's ID Card (Prisoner) on Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol). (Transfer Centre (110,172,3))

How Heretic was discovered

Code: Select all

[2024-02-29 21:21:12.651] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "Shattered scythe" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:15.670] GAME: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) set the teleporter target to the �tracking beacon.] (Teleporter Room (120,116,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:21.193] GAME: Xzero314/(Clara White) has teleported from (Teleporter Room (120,116,4)) to (Cargo Bay (76,120,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:25.883] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "I think Clara is a target" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:31.044] GAME-EMOTE: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) points at Security Office (Security Post - Cargo Bay (91,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:35.383] GAME: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) has teleported from (Cargo Office (88,116,4)) to (Bitrunning Den (87,111,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:41.654] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "RUBS ENGI" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:45.348] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "THE ROOM WITH EMITTERS" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:45.507] GAME-SAY: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) "the hop is for certain" (Cargo Lobby (92,117,4))
[2024-02-29 21:21:56.480] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "Sure" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:05.958] GAME-SAY: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) "engineer to hop office" (Central Primary Hallway (99,113,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:12.558] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "Please" (Supermatter Engine Room (118,55,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:23.408] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "HY" (Supermatter Engine Room (117,61,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:27.781] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "WHY" (Supermatter Engine Room (122,66,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:29.040] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "WHY ME" (Supermatter Engine Room (122,66,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:31.542] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "HOW WAS-OW!" (Supermatter Engine Room (122,66,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:32.270] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "I FOUND" (Supermatter Engine Room (122,66,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:33.033] GAME-EMOTE: Joster730/(Anna Histamine) (mob_3575) points at the plating (Head of Personnel's Office (106,117,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:34.138] GAME-SAY: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) "ai" (Supermatter Engine Room (120,64,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:37.322] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "ALL THE CAMS WERE OFF" (Supermatter Engine Room (122,66,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:38.792] GAME: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) received single donk pocket spawner in the mail (/obj/effect/spawner/random/food_or_drink/donkpockets_single) (Supermatter Engine Room (122,66,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:39.473] GAME-SAY: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) "Well done" (AI Chamber (150,25,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:41.723] GAME-SAY: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) "oh" (Supermatter Engine Room (120,64,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:48.489] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "HOW WAS I FOUND WITH CAMMS THAT WERE CUT" (Supermatter Engine Room (123,67,4))
[2024-02-29 21:22:52.598] GAME-SAY: Sheepthulhu/(Rubs-With-Romerol) (mob_3654) "Planted evidence" (Supermatter Engine Room (123,67,4))

[xzero314]

Not sure if I should be waiting for Bmon to reply to be making a new statement here. Just wanted to point to some of the places in the logs as evidence to my thought process here.

So I go in with the lethal on you see in the first couple shots I fire then switch to disabler. That is the moment I spotted the CE for the first time. My belief that the CE was under attack already was conjecture but it IS why I was there in the first place. The time in the logs where the CE Cried for help
[2024-02-29 21:19:33.453] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS THE HERETIC"
Was just a few minutes before me firing the first shot in the emitter room.
[2024-02-29 21:22:16.276] ATTACK: Xzero314/(Clara White) (mob_3187) fired at [floor] with the laser from Supermatter Engine Room (Supermatter Engine Room (110,58,4))

You stated that a reason that the cap could be excused from breaking rpr4 is to save somebodies life. I had pretty good reason to think the CE was under attack. The speech slurring from before made me think they had ALREADY been targeted once earlier. With the heretic right in engineering I thought "Heretic is after the CE RIGHT NOW". Yes they were right in front of me as I passed by them next to the sm on the way in. Now I am in a fight with the heretic. Sec hasnt made it in yet (Captain moment. I had the access) They make several attempts to close the distance on me and get a mansus hand. The CE gets in close for a baton and I continue with my disabler fire. Then the heretic runs out of the emitter room to the open arms of sec. Looking at the logs its about 30 seconds after the last thing I am able to say ic before this ahelp opens for the rest of the shift.

I think given I had entered that situation expecting to find a heretic already on the hunt for heads of staff, actively killing my ce, and with the AI's theory of them targeting me. I would have been able to even lethal them if I thought it required (it wasn't). I was entirely focused on this ahelp after. I had no idea what was done with rubs or anything else going on in the shift after since I was focused on this. I only found out what happened to rubs when they ascended almost an hour later. I was still answering for myself in this ahelp at that time.

[Bmon]

Yo sorry for the delay.

So the main reason this note was placed is because when we first spoke you seemed to be under the belief that the captain falls under security and therefore is roleplay rule 4 exempt(you can see this in the ticket). That is not true, the captain is subject to RPR 4 like any other role which is not in the security department. The note itself serves as more of a reminder that the captain isn't RPR 4 exempt.

There are many situations where the captain could step in and fill a void which is left by a lack of security, but in this particular round you had a HoS, warden, detective and security officers, a good chunk of which were already chasing the one heretic you had on very calm green star shift. If you are not directly saving someones life you shouldn't get yourself involved with chasing down an antag. As soon as you saw that the heretic wasn't in the process of murdering or abducting someone you should have left it with security to deal with, security was with you at the time.

From what I saw of the fight which I first hand witnessed it was you(captain), the CE, and a security officer who first responded to the AI's callout that the heretic was in engineering. The CE has more of an excuse to kick the heretics ass since this happened in his department, the security officer is security, and you the captain... I don't understand why you were there. The CE's life isn't really in danger when you're rushing into combat side by side with them, that enough should have been clear to you.

Also here's the CE's drunk slammer log "Roo'BS WITTH R'OMEROL...huuuhhh...Ich THE HERETI'I'C", this callout happened in the central primary hallway. To me at the time it was pretty obvious that it wasn't the normal stutter speech you get after getting funny handed by a heretic, but that just be me overanalyzing things. Still, you knew the CE's life wasn't really in much harms way when you later went into combat against the heretic with them.

[xzero314]

Hey thanks for the reply

I would like to address a few things
" a good chunk of which were already chasing the one heretic you had on very calm green star shift"

It HAD been a calm shift. The few minutes this took place in was very chaotic quite quickly to me. From my point of view the hop and CE had been both attacked within two minutes of each other. My ability to provide access for sec when the opponent can potentially teleport is something I thought important.

"Also here's the CE's drunk slammer log "Roo'BS WITTH R'OMEROL...huuuhhh...Ich THE HERETI'I'C", this callout happened in the central primary hallway"


According to the logs it was in cargo bay but I don't think that matters "GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS THE HERETIC" (Cargo Lobby (93,119,4))"

WHERE the CEs speech slurring happened doesn't really matter. The reason its relevant at all is this was my reason for thinking they were under attack and a target of the heretic. Something you said would give me a reason to go to where the heretic is called out.

"From what I saw of the fight which I first hand witnessed it was you(captain), the CE, and a security officer who first responded to the AI's callout that the heretic was in engineering."

I can only attest to what I saw. I tunnel vision hard. I never saw the CE when charging into engineering. I also don't think that point holds water since I was there under the assumption that the CE was under attack. I DIDNT have a concrete reason to think the ce was in engineering at the moment the heretics location was called other than well... its engineering and they are the CE. The lack of actively being stabbed at the moment I walk in shouldn't be a reason for me to be like "ah shoot guess I cant do anything here" For all I know I was running into an Ongoing fight.

I don't believe you have debunked my points as to why: The Ai calling me out as a direct target is not a valid IC reason to be excused from RPR 4 here. Nor why my extrapolation on the CE being attacked is insufficient IC reasoning to respond.

During the ticket you told me "well the ai cant see targets so it shouldn't have told you that. How is that my problem? When I heard this my mind doesn't jump to "the ai somehow knows who all the heretics target are neat" but rather "the ai has seen the heretic stalking me enough that it thinks I am a target" I suppose your argument here is that I hadn't directly been attacked yet so I don't have a valid reason to chase after them. My rebuttal to that Is I wasn't actively hunting. I never asked the ai to track the heretic to my memory. When the Ai called out their location on radio, I happened to be just around the corner. I was just outside the hop office. I wasn't chasing them around the station trying to hunt them down.

" this particular round you had a HoS, warden, detective and security officers"

Skill issue on my part. I had no idea how staffed sec was.

[xzero314]

I really do understand your intentions behind this ahelp and talking to me. From one heretic enjoyer to another (I will always root for the heretic). Especially now a days with the role being much rarer and highly desirable on Manuel, its more important than ever for Command and Sec to be respecting all of the MRP rules in dealing with antags who are restricted and non round ending. From your point of view you saw the Captain rushing to get in on the first sign of action they could on a otherwise calm green shift. From my point of view it had just gone from 0 to 100 in a couple minutes and I had to take action or people were going to die. I am hoping I can convince you that I really do get the message you are trying to send with this note, despite my firm belief that it is not respecting my IC reasoning.

[Archie700]

The shift was yellow star.

https://statbus.space/rounds/224825

[Bmon]

I would like to address a few things
" a good chunk of which were already chasing the one heretic you had on very calm green star shift"

It HAD been a calm shift. The few minutes this took place in was very chaotic quite quickly to me. From my point of view the hop and CE had been both attacked within two minutes of each other. My ability to provide access for sec when the opponent can potentially teleport is something I thought important.

If you were just there to open doors I probably wouldn't have bat an eye, but that's not really what happened. You went in guns blazing with the CE and a secoff to help them take down the heretic, something I don't think you should have involved yourself with. An antagonist doing antagonistic things is simply not enough of a reason to involve yourself in the hunt against them unless it falls under one of the precedents of RPR 4.

According to the logs it was in cargo bay but I don't think that matters "GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS THE HERETIC" (Cargo Lobby (93,119,4))"

WHERE the CEs speech slurring happened doesn't really matter.

The first log of him saying Rubs is a heretic came from central prime. I agree, where it came from is not a big sticking point.

[2024-02-29 21:18:58.934] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS HERETIC" (Central Primary Hallway (107,112,4))
[2024-02-29 21:19:33.453] GAME-SAY: Admiral gigatron/(John Davinski) (mob_3557) "RUBS WITH ROMEROL IS THE HERETIC" (Cargo Lobby (93,119,4))

The reason its relevant at all is this was my reason for thinking they were under attack and a target of the heretic. Something you said would give me a reason to go to where the heretic is called out.

Let's take a deeper look at RPR 4 together:

4. Non-security may only actively hunt global or round-ending threats.

You should not act like a vigilante if a security force is present unless you have a good in-character roleplay reason to believe a global or round-ending threat exists. Restricted antags that are not automatically global or round ending threats may still become so through their actions in the shift, the stronger your reasoning the more action you can take against them.

You can always defend yourself and others from violent antagonists.

Players that choose to act as security will be held to the same standards as security.

I bolded the part of interest to this discussion. I interpret the "defend yourself and others" part of the rule as players being able to defend others from antagonists actively trying to kill someone. The key word is defend, once it is no longer a defensive initiative it ceases to be valid.

RPR 4.1 sheds some light onto pursuing antagonists:

Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area. Players are not expected to ignore antagonists during the normal course of play and may engage with antagonists who are active within their sphere. (Examples: A medical doctor knowing the identity of an active traitor could attack that traitor if that traitor came armed into medbay, likewise an engineer could attack a traitor they spotted breaking into the engine room). Players choosing this route should not attempt to chase down or finish antagonists who retreat from these engagements (unless they have reason to believe that the antagonist constitutes a global or round-ending threat or have a personal reason to do so under other precedents)

This is what makes what the CE did valid but what you did not so valid, it was within his sphere of play(engineering) but outside of yours. No life was directly endangered when you rolled up onto the heretic, you followed the security comms callouts from the AI thus pursuing them.

RPR 4.2 further adds to 4.1:

The dead dog litmus test: Players may hunt specific threats or antagonists who have identifiably done something to wrong that particular player, the Ur-example being that players may seek revenge against those who harm their departmental pets. Players who choose this path are empowered to act as security in regard to that specific threat, but as per the main rule must also follow related restrictions on security play. This can also be applied to an assault of a character you've had significant interactions with, in the current round, and it does not apply to cross-round or OOC friendships.

What this part of the rule is saying is that you are allowed to hunt down antagonists who have identifiably wronged you or someone you've had a significant interaction with. Hunting an antagonist must be based on an identifiable action which the antag took, it is for this reason I believe the AI calling out that they "think" you are the heretics target is not a valid enough reason to hunt them.

I can only attest to what I saw. I tunnel vision hard. I never saw the CE when charging into engineering. I also don't think that point holds water since I was there under the assumption that the CE was under attack.

I get that as a ghost I have a gods eye view of everything, doubly so with admin logs, but you didn't ever see the CE under attack nor did anyone ever claim the CE was under attack. It's quite the contrary to what I saw which was you and the CE charging into combat with sec. Tunnel vision does play a part, I'll address that later.

I DIDNT have a concrete reason to think the ce was in engineering at the moment the heretics location was called other than well... its engineering and they are the CE. The lack of actively being stabbed at the moment I walk in shouldn't be a reason for me to be like "ah shoot guess I cant do anything here" For all I know I was running into an Ongoing fight.

You didn't have a concrete reason to think the CE was in engineering? Maybe you misspoke here or phrased that poorly but if not that invalidates the whole point of defending the CE if you didn't even believe they were there.

Again I'd like to remind you that security was literally right beside you, you did say that it was one of the reasons you were there, to open doors for sec. Your job as the captain is to delegate tasks when able to, not to take direct action.

I don't believe you have debunked my points as to why: The Ai calling me out as a direct target is not a valid IC reason to be excused from RPR 4 here. Nor why my extrapolation on the CE being attacked is insufficient IC reasoning to respond.

I believe I have now.

During the ticket you told me "well the ai cant see targets so it shouldn't have told you that. How is that my problem? When I heard this my mind doesn't jump to "the ai somehow knows who all the heretics target are neat" but rather "the ai has seen the heretic stalking me enough that it thinks I am a target" I suppose your argument here is that I hadn't directly been attacked yet so I don't have a valid reason to chase after them.

That's not a quote, that's you paraphrasing at best. AI's can say whatever they want to so long as it doesn't break their laws. From the ticket:

2024-02-29 21:54:50: Reply from xzero314: Ok but I was working on incomplete information that was reasonable. I thought somebody was being killed and I also thought the heretic was targetting me directrly
2024-02-29 21:56:39: Reply from bmon: Not really, no. At no point did the AI say they were killing someone.
2024-02-29 21:57:11: Ticket Opened by xzero314: No the ai said "They are targetting Clara" I made the mistake of thinking somebody was being killed in engineering when the ai all caps reported them in there
2024-02-29 21:57:22: Reply from bmon: Also not really sure why the AI thought you were their target? That's a rather wild claim for someone who can't really see targets
2024-02-29 21:57:42: Reply from bmon: Either way nothing they did indicated that you were their target
2024-02-29 21:57:42: Reply from xzero314: I have no idea. I assumed the ai had noticed them stalking me
2024-02-29 21:59:25: Reply from xzero314: You can argue all day that my ic reasonings were wrong but I had a resonable belief in them at the time that I was being targgetting by the heretic directly and that does allow me to take more direct action against them does it not?
2024-02-29 22:05:20: Reply from bmon: I am almost 100% sure the AI was highly mistaken about that or made that call off of very flimsy information. It's not enough for you to go out of your way to start chasing them unless they've wronged you

What the AI actually said:

[2024-02-29 21:21:25.890] TELECOMMS: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) [Security] (spans: robot command_headset ) "I think Clara is a target" (language: Galactic Common) (AI Chamber (150,25,4))

I stand by what I said in the ticket, the AI saying they think you are the heretics' target is not enough of a reason to justify hunting them. As I pointed out before with RPR 4.2 an identifiable wrong needs to be done, the AI saying they think you are someone's target ain't that.

Pretty sure what happened is the AI confused the HOP who was attacked for you the captain- not like that matters much anyways.

My rebuttal to that Is I wasn't actively hunting. I never asked the ai to track the heretic to my memory. When the Ai called out their location on radio, I happened to be just around the corner. I was just outside the hop office. I wasn't chasing them around the station trying to hunt them down.

Just because you didn't ask the AI to track them doesn't mean you didn't go out of your way to pursue them, responding to the AI's callouts on seccomms was pursuing them. This was not happenstance of them just appearing in front or them doing something bad in front of you.

I really do understand your intentions behind this ahelp and talking to me. From one heretic enjoyer to another (I will always root for the heretic). Especially now a days with the role being much rarer and highly desirable on Manuel, its more important than ever for Command and Sec to be respecting all of the MRP rules in dealing with antags who are restricted and non round ending. From your point of view you saw the Captain rushing to get in on the first sign of action they could on a otherwise calm green shift. From my point of view it had just gone from 0 to 100 in a couple minutes and I had to take action or people were going to die. I am hoping I can convince you that I really do get the message you are trying to send with this note, despite my firm belief that it is not respecting my IC reasoning.

The only thing I care about are the rules being upheld and you understanding them. If we loop back to the note it's written the way it is for a reason, it's not meant to be a punishment but rather a reminder that RPR 4 can be applied to the captain. You didn't demonstrate a good understanding of that in our ticket, that's why I placed a note. Even the way this appeal is titled questions if the captain is security or not. The captain is not in the security department, they're in command(like the HOP).

All things considered, this is very borderline compared to other instances of RPR 4 issues on MRP. Could you have been tunnel-visioned? Yeah, I can see that happening. Could you have actually thought the CE was dying? I think it's a possibility even though there wasn't much evidence of it. It's for reasons like this I am willing to remove the note so long as you understand the contents of it.

The shift was yellow star.

tbqh I just went off what xzero said in their original appeal.

There were however only two antags on the station at the time. One the heretic which is the subject of this appeal and the second a traitor who hadn't done much yet.

[xzero314]

Thanks for the detailed response

I think you are still ignoring the fact that I was working off IN character knowledge with in character reasoning

"If you were just there to open doors I probably wouldn't have bat an eye, but that's not really what happened. You went in guns blazing with the CE and a secoff to help them take down the heretic"

"I bolded the part of interest to this discussion. I interpret the "defend yourself and others" part of the rule as players being able to defend others from antagonists actively trying to kill someone. The key word is defend, once it is no
longer a defensive initiative it ceases to be valid."


My issue with your take here is that, that is why I was there. I was there because I thought a life was actively in danger. Whether or not those IC reason are "good enough" from your point of view is like your opinion. The situation actively evolving as it plays out being held against me is unfair.


" You didn't have a concrete reason to think the CE was in engineering? Maybe you misspoke here or phrased that poorly but if not that invalidates the whole point of defending the CE if you didn't even believe they were there."

I meant what I said. I made a conjecture that the CE was being attacked its true. BUT THIS CONJECTURE WAS MADE WITH IC REASONING. I never lied or tried to hide that. I assumed the CE was in engineering because to my knowledge they had been fixing the sm from the moment they joined. It was delamming when they arrived and they fixed it. I assumed the ce stuttering about the heretic occured in engineering, the CE's department and where they had been since joining (again to MY knowledge)


[2024-02-29 21:21:25.890] TELECOMMS: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.4) (mob_3179) [Security] (spans: robot command_headset ) "I think Clara is a target" (language: Galactic Common) (AI Chamber (150,25,4))

"I stand by what I said in the ticket, the AI saying they think you are the heretics' target is not enough of a reason to justify hunting them. As I pointed out before with RPR 4.2 an identifiable wrong needs to be done, the AI saying they think you are someone's target ain't that."

Again that's just like. YOUR opinion. This is an IC reason for me to personally be worried about the heretic on top of the chaos of the last two minutes and me thinking that two of my heads of staff are being attacked.

"The only thing I care about are the rules being upheld and you understanding them. If we loop back to the note it's written the way it is for a reason, it's not meant to be a punishment but rather a reminder that RPR 4 can be applied to the captain. You didn't demonstrate a good understanding of that in our ticket, that's why I placed a note"

I think this is something we could argue here for ages. I still think that the captains domain is the entire station. I think that having a mind shield and following sec protocol DOES make the captain part of security. I am the HOS'S BOSS and sec needs to come to me to authorize executions.

EDIT IN: I was taking a look at rpr 4 and its precedents and I think this line in particular gave me the right to act

"Actively hunting a threat involves seeking out or pursuing that threat outside the bounds of your normal reasonable play area. Players are not expected to ignore antagonists during the normal course of play and may engage with antagonists who are active within their sphere."

the Captains normal reasonable play area with their AA is everywhere.

Since you also quoted that line from the rules

"This is what makes what the CE did valid but what you did not so valid, it was within his sphere of play(engineering) but outside of yours. No life was directly endangered when you rolled up onto the heretic, you followed the security comms callouts from the AI thus pursuing them."

I dont think its fair to dismiss my reasons for going there in the first place just because they turned out to not be the EXACT scene as I arrived. The CE wasnt under attack the moment I arrived but how am I supposed to know that he WASNT being attacked? They were not far off from the heretic when I first spotted them AND THEY WERE COVERED IN BLOOD

Due to our disagreement on this point I would like to ask for a headmin review of this ticket. All points that can be made have been, regarding how the situation played out. As well as this being the major crux of the ticket.

Thank you for the time you took to write out a very thorough reply.

"All things considered, this is very borderline compared to other instances of RPR 4 issues on MRP. Could you have been tunnel-visioned? Yeah, I can see that happening. Could you have actually thought the CE was dying? I think it's a possibility even though there wasn't much evidence of it. It's for reasons like this I am willing to remove the note so long as you understand the contents of it."

I MISSED THIS ON MY FIRST READ THROUGH LOL. I would accept this compromise HOWEVER I am invested in the argument over cap being sec at this point. I am actually very interested in what the general consensus on RPR4 is among the headmins as one of the reasons for this appeal was I was encouraged to by an admin that disagrees with the take.

[Archie700]

Due to our disagreement on this point I would like to ask for a headmin review of this ticket. All points that can be made have been, regarding how the situation played out. As well as this being the major crux of the ticket.

Headmins and Headmin-elects have been informed.

[Cheshify]

This issue is not complicated, the Captain is in command of the station, and they are allowed to do what they need to do to keep their ship stable and operational, especially when it comes to the matter of heads. Sometimes, this means hunting a valid or two (as a treat). Xzero had IC reasoning for their actions based on what they believed at the time was true, and there's no reason to expect players to have even accurate information in this wacky little social deception game of ours.

As such, we'll be lifting the note, and encouraging Bmon to make a policy thread if they want to change how we've defined the captain's "lane" in MRP.

TBM - Lift
Kieth - Lift
Tattle - Lift
Dendy - Lift
Cheshify - Wrote it
Fikou - Abstain